Rapid Rise Derailier

TJ said:

Please excuse ignorance but is this type of derailier the
type where you can shift more than one gear at a time by
pressing the lever further ?

I think rapid rise is only available on Shimano XTR (top end
MTB) derailleurs; it improves downshifting.

But I could very well be wrong.

"TJ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

Please excuse ignorance but is this type of derailier the
type where you

can

Quoted message said:

shift more than one gear at a time by pressing the lever
further ?

just bought a flight deck computer and it needs to know

Thanx

I think that would depend on the shifters rather than the
derailleur wouldn't it? I have a cheapo Rapid Rise
derailleur with equally cheapo shifters on a bike at the
moment. I don't recall shifting more than one gear at a time
but maybe I just haven't tried. The only difference between
it and regular derailleurs, I think, is that its spring
wants to pull it onto the bigger sprockets by default,rather
than the smaller ones. This always confuses me when I have
to adjust the indexing. Indeed I wouldn't be surprised if
I've got it the wrong way round again.

tony R.

tony R said:

"TJ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

Please excuse ignorance but is this type of derailier the
type where you

can

Quoted message said:

shift more than one gear at a time by pressing the lever
further ?

just bought a flight deck computer and it needs to know

Thanx

I think that would depend on the shifters rather than the
derailleur wouldn't it? I have a cheapo Rapid Rise
derailleur with equally cheapo shifters on a bike at the
moment. I don't recall shifting more than one gear at a
time but maybe I just haven't tried. The only difference
between it and regular derailleurs, I think, is that its
spring wants to pull it onto the bigger sprockets by
default,rather than the smaller ones. This always confuses
me when I have to adjust the indexing. Indeed I wouldn't
be surprised if I've got it the wrong way round again.

tony R.

Yeah, it's to do with the spring on it. Shimano's website
have some info on this, I think it's only on the top end
stuff of theirs, check the derailleur/sprocket info on the
site for the kit you have, it'll say if it's rapid rise or
not on there.

Mine's Tiagra and doesn't have the RR, but I can drop up to
three gears in a single lever push on the sprockets if I so
choose, so it's definitely not referring to that.

--

Velvet

tony R said:

"TJ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

Please excuse ignorance but is this type of derailier the
type where you

can

Quoted message said:

shift more than one gear at a time by pressing the lever
further ?

just bought a flight deck computer and it needs to know

Thanx

I think that would depend on the shifters rather than the
derailleur wouldn't it? I have a cheapo Rapid Rise
derailleur with equally cheapo shifters on a bike at the
moment. I don't recall shifting more than one gear at a
time but maybe I just haven't tried. The only difference
between it and regular derailleurs, I think, is that its
spring wants to pull it onto the bigger sprockets by
default,rather than the smaller ones. This always confuses
me when I have to adjust the indexing. Indeed I wouldn't
be surprised if I've got it the wrong way round again.

I think Tony has it: see
sheldonbrown.comgloss r.htmlOpen ↗

Peter

"TJ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

Please excuse ignorance but is this type of derailier the
type where you

can

Quoted message said:

shift more than one gear at a time by pressing the lever
further ?

just bought a flight deck computer and it needs to know

No, 'rapid rise' means low-normal. Ie. to change 'up' you
are pushing against the derailleur spring, changing down
releases the spring tension to pull the derailleur into a
_lower_ gear. This is the opposite of normal derailleur
operation which is high-normal. With rapidrise the shift
lever action which would normally get you a higher gear gets
you a lower one instead - it reverses the action of the
shifter levers and provides quicker downshifting.

Rich

"Velvet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yeah, it's to do with the spring on it. Shimano's website
have some info on this, I think it's only on the top end
stuff of theirs, .........

My Dawes Discovery 201 is almost blushing at the
thought that it came with top end bits. You're too kind
Velvet ;-) The derailleur in question is a Shimano
C050. Which I believe is so low end it's almost fallen
off. I think there's then a gap up to XT/XTR when rapid
rise appears again.

tony R.

Richard Goodman said:

"TJ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

Please excuse ignorance but is this type of derailier the
type where you

can

Quoted message said:

shift more than one gear at a time by pressing the lever
further ?

just bought a flight deck computer and it needs to know

No, 'rapid rise' means low-normal. Ie. to change 'up' you
are pushing against the derailleur spring, changing down
releases the spring tension to pull the derailleur into a
_lower_ gear. This is the opposite of normal derailleur
operation which is high-normal. With rapidrise the shift
lever action which would normally get you a higher gear
gets you a lower one instead - it reverses the action of
the shifter levers and provides quicker downshifting.

Rich

Hmm, puzzled now.. so the time to shift is fastest if it's
done by the spring, rather than finger power, yes?

Surely you'd tend to want to change up faster, for
acceleration - but not by more than one or maybe two gears
at a time, while dropping down if it takes longer you can
simply drop two instead of one+one gear - or is it a case
that a powerful rider would want to change up more than a
gear at a time (which is the limitation on non-rr shimano
shifters, it's click click click to notch up three gears,
for example) but would tend to drop down them using lots of
single-drop but fast changes?

--

Velvet

Velvet said:

Surely you'd tend to want to change up faster, for
acceleration

This is why it's aimed at MTBs, where he need to change down
rapidly is more of a necessity (very steep, sudden climbs).

I think.

tony R said:

"Velvet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:mexHc.1957$_V5.18583598@news-
text.cableinet.net...

Quoted message said:

Yeah, it's to do with the spring on it. Shimano's website
have some info on this, I think it's only on the top end
stuff of theirs, .........

My Dawes Discovery 201 is almost blushing at the
thought that it came with top end bits. You're too kind
Velvet ;-) The derailleur in question is a Shimano
C050. Which I believe is so low end it's almost fallen
off. I think there's then a gap up to XT/XTR when rapid
rise appears again.

tony R.

Ah well, you never know!! Mine's a Dawes Audax that came
with Tiagra stuff (though now three years old), which while
not top-end seems very nice, very smooth, and has drawn
admiring comments from other riders occasionally... so it
was always possible you did have toward the top end
components on your bike, whether as factory or fitted
afterwards...

Especially given the amount of bike fettling that I see
posted about in here sometimes ;-)

--

Velvet

Quoted message said:

Hi,

Please excuse ignorance but is this type of derailier the
type where you

can

Quoted message said:

shift more than one gear at a time by pressing the lever
further ?

just bought a flight deck computer and it needs to know

Thanx

Rapid rise is now available on Shimano XT, and next year,
LX. Don't know about roadie equipment, being a mtber.

I think it means that the derailleur essentially works in
reverse. What this means is: when you press your
thumbtrigger on your shifter (which would normally mean
change down the gears), you actually are changing up the
gears. And when you pull the finger trigger (would normally
be changing up) you are actually changing down.

As for why.... I think it's because derailleurs are sprung a
particular way and hence shifting up is easier than shifting
down. Rapid rise is there to change that round. I think

HTH] Nick

Simonb said:

Velvet said:

Surely you'd tend to want to change up faster, for
acceleration

This is why it's aimed at MTBs, where he need to change
down rapidly is more of a necessity (very steep, sudden
climbs).

I think.

Yebbut surely that's where the dropping three gears at
once is useful.. not that I'm a MTB-er, only having ridden
one once...

Or is it that rapid rise means you still can drop 1-3 at a
time, just that when it does drop, it does it with the
spring pulling and thus it's fast when it does it?

I think we need someone that has the RR on their bike to
sort this one out for us :-)

--

Velvet

Velvet said:

Or is it that rapid rise means you still can drop 1-3 at a
time, just that when it does drop, it does it with the
spring pulling and thus it's fast when it does it?

This is precisely what it does.

"Velvet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Especially given the amount of bike fettling that I see
posted about in here sometimes ;-)

Aint that the truth! In fact, the very same bike now has an
old (13 yr. old) XT chainset. From the sublime to the
ridiculous on one drivetrain. Although the ridiculous does
work very well. The fact that it shifts "by default" to the
bigger sprockets often comes in useful as this bike daily
pulls c. 50kg. of trailer and kids up a short, sharp hill.

tony R.

Simonb said:

Velvet said:

Or is it that rapid rise means you still can drop 1-3 at a
time, just that when it does drop, it does it with the
spring pulling and thus it's fast when it does it?

This is precisely what it does.

Ah, right, thanks for clearing that one up for me! I
realised halfway through I was probably confusing two
separate issues with how it all works, though I'm not
quite sure how you'd judge the drop down 1, 2 or 3 if it's
on a spring to drop quicker.. but maybe that's cos I ride
a road bike with drops rather than indexed shifters for
straight bars...

I push the bigger lever toward the left (it's on the right
hand bar) to drop 1-3 gears, depending on how far and how
long I push it over for - I'm working against the spring
force, so can control how many gears to drop fairly easily
that way. To ramp up the gears, it's the smaller lever
inside that one that clicks over and each click releases the
spring which pulls and it shifts up one gear.

--

Velvet

In article <MZyHc.2032$IU6.19362050@news-
text.cableinet.net>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I push the bigger lever toward the left (it's on the right
hand bar) to drop 1-3 gears, depending on how far and how
long I push it over for - I'm working against the spring
force, so can control how many gears to drop fairly easily
that way. To ramp up the gears, it's the smaller lever
inside that one that clicks over and each click releases
the spring which pulls and it shifts up one gear.

Campag use the same system, only the inner lever is a button
on the side and it can also click through multiple points. I
don't know how the Sora "button" STIs behaved but I suspect
that they were single click to go up.

Jon

Jon Senior said:

In article <MZyHc.2032$IU6.19362050@news-
text.cableinet.net>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I push the bigger lever toward the left (it's on the right
hand bar) to drop 1-3 gears, depending on how far and how
long I push it over for - I'm working against the spring
force, so can control how many gears to drop fairly easily
that way. To ramp up the gears, it's the smaller lever
inside that one that clicks over and each click releases
the spring which pulls and it shifts up one gear.

Campag use the same system, only the inner lever is a
button on the side and it can also click through multiple
points. I don't know how the Sora "button" STIs behaved
but I suspect that they were single click to go up.

Jon

Yeah, this is a single click and release to move up, to move
up again you have to click and release repeatedly.

Which is why I was a bit puzzled as to the actual gains made
for downshifting fast with a RR setup, cos to downshift one
gear might be faster, but to downshift 2 or three it
*definitely* isn't!!!

If I want to change up three, it's three sets of click-
release movements of the little lever, which seems to
take just as long, if not longer, as dropping three gears
using the push waaay over and hold to be sure it's
dropped the three..

Maybe I'll have to experiment at some point this weekend
with it all - it could just be my perception is wildly out
of kilter with the actual time taken to shift!

--

Velvet

In article <W6zHc.2040$aZ6.19430500@news-
text.cableinet.net>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Which is why I was a bit puzzled as to the actual gains
made for downshifting fast with a RR setup, cos to
downshift one gear might be faster, but to downshift 2 or
three it *definitely* isn't!!!

Think about how "snappy" the change up is on your system
(Assuming it's setup right!). Now compare that to the feel
of the change down (which is usually slightly more rattly.
The RapidRise system just swaps those two. It does also mean
that if your cable or shifter breaks, the default gear is
your lowest, not your highest. After the Gripsh*t on the
bent broke I can say with some confidence that this is a
Good Thing (TM). The experience of suddenly hitting top gear
going up Leith Walk was not one I intend to repeat!

Jon

"Velvet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jon Senior said:

In article <MZyHc.2032$IU6.19362050@news-
text.cableinet.net>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I push the bigger lever toward the left (it's on the
right hand bar) to drop 1-3 gears, depending on how far
and how long I push it over for - I'm working against
the spring force, so can control how many gears to drop
fairly easily that way. To ramp up the gears, it's the
smaller lever inside that one that clicks over and each
click releases the spring which pulls and it shifts up
one gear.

Campag use the same system, only the inner lever is a
button on the side and it can also click through
multiple points. I don't know how the Sora "button"
STIs behaved but I suspect that they were single click
to go up.

Jon

Yeah, this is a single click and release to move up, to
move up again you have to click and release repeatedly.

Which is why I was a bit puzzled as to the actual gains
made for downshifting fast with a RR setup, cos to
downshift one gear might be faster, but to downshift 2 or
three it *definitely* isn't!!!

If I want to change up three, it's three sets of click-
release movements of the little lever, which seems to
take just as long, if not longer, as dropping three gears
using the push waaay over and hold to be sure it's
dropped the three..

Maybe I'll have to experiment at some point this weekend
with it all - it could just be my perception is wildly out
of kilter with the actual time taken to shift!

In my experience it's not so much "speed" as "ease" of
shifting to bigger sprockets that is probably the alleged
advantage of rapid rise. I have to pull a heavy trailer up a
hill near home. Due to a combination of the road layout
before the hill, the length and steepness of the hill and my
level of fitness, I always have to change to bigger
sprockets whilst on this hill. I find it's easier to do this
on the bike with the r r derailleur.

tony R.

tony R said:

"Velvet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:W6zHc.2040$aZ6.19430500@news-
text.cableinet.net...

Quoted message said:

Jon Senior said:

In article <MZyHc.2032$IU6.19362050@news-
text.cableinet.net>, [email hidden] says...

>I push the bigger lever toward the left (it's on the
>right hand bar) to drop 1-3 gears, depending on how far
>and how long I push it over for - I'm working against
>the spring force, so can control how many gears to drop
>fairly easily that way. To ramp up the gears, it's the
>smaller lever inside that one that clicks over and each
>click releases the spring which pulls and it shifts up
>one gear.

Campag use the same system, only the inner lever is a
button on the side and it can also click through multiple
points. I don't know how the Sora "button" STIs behaved
but I suspect that they were single click to go up.

Jon

Yeah, this is a single click and release to move up, to
move up again you have to click and release repeatedly.

Which is why I was a bit puzzled as to the actual gains
made for downshifting fast with a RR setup, cos to
downshift one gear might be faster, but to downshift 2 or
three it *definitely* isn't!!!

If I want to change up three, it's three sets of click-
release movements of the little lever, which seems to
take just as long, if not longer, as dropping three gears
using the push waaay over and hold to be sure it's
dropped the three..

Maybe I'll have to experiment at some point this weekend
with it all - it could just be my perception is wildly out
of kilter with the actual time taken to shift!

In my experience it's not so much "speed" as "ease" of
shifting to bigger sprockets that is probably the alleged
advantage of rapid rise. I have to pull a heavy trailer up
a hill near home. Due to a combination of the road layout
before the hill, the length and steepness of the hill and
my level of fitness, I always have to change to bigger
sprockets whilst on this hill. I find it's easier to do
this on the bike with the r r derailleur.

tony R.

Tony/Jon,

Ahh, yes, I see.... yes, I'd prefer to suddenly drop to a
low rather than a high by default... hadn't thought about a
sudden cable snap... something else to worry about whilst on
the bike LOL (joking, these days, woohoo!)

I spend a lot of time in the big sprockets too - am
wondering if RR is more useful if on a double chainring than
a triple though perhaps, dunno really.

I'm still working on gear changes while the bike is under
load (ie, up hills etc) - I find it very hard not to have it
be a jerky and obviously stressful for the components (and
my knees!) procedure - slacking off the power through the
pedals instantly leads to a drop in cadence but worse a drop
in speed, which is very hard to recover... I know there must
be a knack to it, maybe one part of the pedal stroke is best
- I'll get it one day!

--

Velvet