rapid heartbeat

Ask your MD to refer you to a cardiologist. He might want to order a 30 event
monitor which will allow you to record the episodes on a small digital recorder
and transmit them to a receiver by phone. It is an easy little test. It makes
possible the documentation of what is actually happening at the moment you
have the symptom. Sounds like you can catch it in 30 day. Ask your MD for a
loop monitor. These will record and keep in memory a period of time selected by
your MD from 30 sec to 5 minutes history before you push the button and for
what ever duration he selects after the button is pushed. They are the best.
If you delay in hiting the button you still catch it. I think that you should
follow up on this since you have been symptomatic. Let me know how you do.
Good night

(MOO112) said:

I am a 44 year old male, 5'11", 166 lbs, good health, run 2.5 miles 4
times a week, mild weight training 3 days a week, for the last 3
years. I get skipped beats and heart flutters quite often, at least 2
times a day. No pain, shortness of breath, etc. This has been going on
for at least 13 years, maybe longer.
Occasionally, I have felt lightheaded during a fluttering episode,
which I have had that I can remember about 4 times in my life, the
most recent a month ago. It lasted about 4 or 5 seconds. Just
lightheadedness, no pain or other symptons. The rest of the flutters
and skipped beats just come and go. I had an EKG three years ago, and
one today, both normal. I told the doctor that I also occasionally get
rapid heartbeats, the type that beat rapidly for 5 or 6 beats on the
average, occasionally up to 10. This last for about 1 or 2 seconds,
and is gone. No discomfort is experienced. I probably get these about
once a week or less. He was going to send me home with the normal EKG
and stethescope examination, but after telling him about the sudden
rapid, he wants me to have an echocardiogram, if thats the term. What
I'm wondering now, is what this form of tachycardia usually means as
far as future style of living. Is it probably benign, or am I looking
at the possibility of some restrictions, and what that likelihood is
percentage wise. I like excercise, and would hate to be limited.
For the record, I usualy have one cup of coffee, 2 cups of green tea,
2 glucosimine-chrondroitin (spelling) pills, a b-50 B complex pill, 1
500mg vit C pill, 1 500 iu vitamin e pill, and a 8000 iu vitamin a
pill each day. My stress load is probably normal, with girlfriend
occasionally making me want to pull my hair out. However you compute
the stress factors, I don't walk around bottled up and wanting to
explode, I'm really very even tempered 99 percent of the time. I also
only get around 7 hours of good sleep a night. I smoked marijuana and
cigarettes from around age 16 to age 43, and drank alcohol during that
same time frame. I have been substance free since May of 2002. I hope
I havn't trashed the heart too much from the substances. I have had
two grandfathers with heart problems. One had angina when he was
around 60, and he lived to be around 80, dying of a stroke suffered
around a year before his death. The other grandfather had a bypass
when he around 70, and died of lung cancer at age 82.

Thats all, folks.

Thanks

Just a suggestion, it would be easier to read your post if you put it
into a few paragraphs rather than one humongous one.

I would think that your Doctor should have given you an event recorder
so you could hit a button on the recorder when experiencing the
Arrhythmias and then via a phone line transmit the data to a place
that can see what is actually going on with your heart rate. Sounds
like it might be Atrial Fib, but I am not a Doctor so that information
is probably not worth very much. I would pressure your doctor to
figure out what is happening with your heart rhythm, if for nothing
more than your peace of mind. .

If you want a fabulous web site on A-Fib , visit this one, They have a
very active Forum ( discussion group)

http://www.afibbers.org/forum/list.php?f=2

Bob

The doctor I saw today was a cardiologist, and he gave me the EKG by
means of the treadmill stress test for 16 minutes. He had that
treadmill smokin'. Like I mentioned, everything at that time was
normal, but when I told him of the rapid heartbeat episodes, he
scheduled me for the echocardiogram on August 11. I have heard of the
event monitors, and I'll see what they say on the 11th.

Thanks

How do you know it is atrial fib. Maybe SVEB's, maybe atrial flutter he is
feeling. Maybe it is SVT. Let his Dr. get to the bottom of it. No self
diagnosis. That is not the issue. It gone on. He is symptomatic and his
cardiologist need to follow up on it and I am sure he will after the
echocardiogram.

(Complex592) said:

How do you know it is atrial fib. Maybe SVEB's, maybe atrial flutter he is
feeling. Maybe it is SVT. Let his Dr. get to the bottom of it. No self
diagnosis. That is not the issue. It gone on. He is symptomatic and his
cardiologist need to follow up on it and I am sure he will after the
echocardiogram.

Whose post are you replying to? When you don't quote it, most of us
have no idea who you are responding to, including me.

Bob

Yours, in which you told the person with rapid heart rate to go to the atrial
fib web site.. See Re: rapid heart beta" Dah

(Complex592) said:

Yours, in which you told the person with rapid heart rate to go to the atrial
fib web site.. See Re: rapid heart beta" Dah

That is what my crystal ball said but it is wrong 50% of the time.

By the way, you again didn't post what you were responding to so I
will.

Lets pretend we are starting all over again >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

(Complex592) said:

How do you know it is atrial fib. Maybe SVEB's, maybe atrial flutter he is
feeling. Maybe it is SVT. Let his Dr. get to the bottom of it. No self
diagnosis. That is not the issue. It gone on. He is symptomatic and his
cardiologist need to follow up on it and I am sure he will after the
echocardiogram.

Whose post are you replying to? When you don't quote it, most of us
have no idea who you are responding to, including me.

It is "normal" in a usenet "conversation" when you are replying to
someone else's post, to quote the post that you are replying to .
Posts in a thread on Usenet are not necessarily going to show up in
the order that they were posted in a thread. If all you post is a
response with no quote, and it shows up in the thread about three
messages down rather than the order that you suspected it would show
up in , very few people will know what you are talking about or what
post your are referring to in your response.

For example:

"I disagree with you "

With no quote above that response, it is totally meaningless to
everyone. It's like being in a big room with 100's of people and
yelling that over the loudspeaker.

Now here is what I originally posted which you apparently chose to
leave out :

Quoted message said:

I would think that your Doctor should have given you an event recorder so you could hit a
button on the recorder when experiencing the Arrhythmias and then via a phone line transmit
the data to a place that can see what is actually going on with your heart rate.
Sounds like it might be Atrial Fib, but I am not a Doctor so that information is probably not worth very much.
I would pressure your doctor to figure out what is happening with your heart rhythm, if for nothing more than your peace of mind. .

If you want a fabulous web site on A-Fib , visit this one, They have a very active Forum ( discussion group)

http://www.afibbers.org/forum/list.php?f=2

Bob

here is your response to my above post Post" in it's entirety

(Complex592) said:

How do you know it is atrial fib. Maybe SVEB's, maybe atrial flutter he is
feeling. Maybe it is SVT. Let his Dr. get to the bottom of it. No self
diagnosis. That is not the issue. It gone on. He is symptomatic and his
cardiologist need to follow up on it and I am sure he will after the
echocardiogram.

Now if you will read very slowly what I said, you will see that I made
the following points in my post, that you apparently disagreed with..

1 " Sounds like it MIGHT BE atrial fib" . By the way "Might Be"
means that it could be other things.

2 I am not a Doctor so my input is probably now worth very much

3. See a Doctor.

If you had copied everything that was in my original comment that I
just re posted , your comment to me would have seemed rather
ridiculous, don't you think?

I guess that is why you didn't copy it

Bob
..

Not a doctor or a gentleman. Dah

(Complex592) said:

Not a doctor or a gentleman. Dah

And you sir, are as sharp as a bowling Ball!

Bob

Thanks for the recent input. After searching the newsgroups and
internet, unfortunately the closest condition that resembles what I
have is the dreaded "ventricular tachycardia", where the heart will
fire off several quick beats in a row. This is what I experience, like
I said about once every one or two weeks, with up to 10 quick beats,
but usually around 5. This lasts for about a second or two, then
everythings normal. No pain, dizziness or other things. But with so
many variables, it's probably useless to continue to search the web
for info, when the echocardiogram is a week away. What intrigues me is
how I could be able to excercise daily with no ill effects for the
last several years, and still have a potentially life threatening
condition waiting to cut me down, if that's what it is.

Hi,
I've had AFib for 4 years now with just three episodes. I was in Afib last
week and didn't go to the hospital for the first time. I've had
cardioversions 2 times. The first one took and the seconded one lasted 4
hours. That time I was in the hospital when they did it. I was put on
Amiodarone, which I am really afraid of. My Cardio went from 800 a day for 2
weeks,down to 200, and then nothing for the last 3 months as it stays in the
system, but seems I broke through.This time a stayed at home because my
pulse never got over 114 and I converted, thank heavens. It's really a scary
thing. I get very weak and breathless.
I'm now back on Amiodarone but only 400 a day then 200 and so on. There
are so many different types of Afib, so maybe M0112, you have one of the
others. Good luck the 11th, but I think the Dr. would have known it was Afib
if that's what it is...
Oh and by the way, that is a good Afib site someone mentioned.......Nel

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the recent input. After searching the newsgroups and
internet, unfortunately the closest condition that resembles what I
have is the dreaded "ventricular tachycardia", where the heart will
fire off several quick beats in a row. This is what I experience, like
I said about once every one or two weeks, with up to 10 quick beats,
but usually around 5. This lasts for about a second or two, then
everythings normal. No pain, dizziness or other things. But with so
many variables, it's probably useless to continue to search the web
for info, when the echocardiogram is a week away. What intrigues me is
how I could be able to excercise daily with no ill effects for the
last several years, and still have a potentially life threatening
condition waiting to cut me down, if that's what it is.

MOO112 said:

Good Afternoon,

I had the echocardiogram on the 8th of August, and the doctor said
essentially,
everything was normal. But he added that there was some "slight"
leakage in a couple of the valves (didn't say what valves), and not to
worry since he sees that in about 90% of the echos he reviews. He was
going to let it go at that, but prescribed a 24 hour Holter Monitor
when I reminded him that the reason for the echo in the first place
was the heartbeat salvos I occasionally experience. The results of
that test will be in sometime next week.

As usual, along with the various posts I have read, the heart was on
good behavior during the 24 hours I had the monitor on. If it had been
on 24 hours earlier, it would have captured an episode of skipped
beats and thumps that dragged on for 45 minutes or so. I didn't feel
any salvos, but it was hard to gauge since I was active during that
interval. I have no idea what could have triggered that. If stress can
trigger arrhythmias, then it's possible that the unscheduled deadline
that I faced at work for the last hour that day could have been the
trigger. However, this deadline didn't bring on much mental stress at
all, so I would hardly label this significant stress in my book. I
work in an upstairs office adjacent to the mechanics garage, and
sometimes the office will temporarily smell of diesel or some other
fumes. For about an hour that afternoon, I got the diesel.

If the Holter had been on 72 hours later, it would have been a bonanza
of abnormal beats. Sunday night, shortly after I laid down to go to
sleep, the skipped beat party started. It lasted on and off for about
2 hours, until I finally fell asleep. I did have a cup of coffee
around 3 that afternoon (went to bed at 10:30 pm), which has been
known to keep me from falling asleep many, many hours later. For
what's it worth, this time there was also semi-foul air to deal with.
I had cooked a salmon fillet in the oven, and the smell (cooked fish
and a small amount of smoke, not enough to see but enough to irritate
the eyes) permeated the air. And as far as the coffee goes, usually I
can drink as much as I want (never over 2 cups) without palps.

The next morning, about an hour after I got up, I had what felt like a
salvo of around 5 to 7 beats. I'm not sure of the number, because they
were hard to feel.
Oddly enough, it happened about 10 seconds after my first sip of
coffee. There's no way caffeine can cause a reaction that quick, the
stuff had barely begun to enter the stomach.

So, like so many others, I'm on the hunt for the villain causing the
arrhythmias.
The doctor said ventricular tachycardia is found mainly in patients
with heart disease, which I already gathered from reading numerous web
articles. The Holter will more than likely come back negative for VT,
and it will probably be up to me to get the blood tests, further
monitoring, and possibly another echo as well as an EP study.

If these occasional 1 to 3 second salvos are not VT, then I can live
with them. The skips, palps, and salvos are not causing any of the
classic distress symptoms (pain, syncope, etc.), so if the cause can't
be found, I'd rather live with them than be put on medication. I jog
and do light weight training, and the thought of a sedentary lifestyle
is not pleasent. Impotence, yea, there's another delightful side
effect. I'm just generalizing, so I'm probably not right on the money
with the outcome of all of this.

In parting, I will pose a short list of questions to anyone who might
have some insight:

1) What is the significance of lying on one's back and triggering
arrhythmias?

No clinical significance.

Quoted message said:

2) Is non-sustained VT more likely to be perceived or not perceived? I
ask this because, during normal beats with normal blood pressure, I
cannot feel the beats. If blood pressure is lowered in VT, it is
logical to deduct that a non-sustained salvo would also not be
perceived. Since I'm not a doctor, I'm probably wrong on this one.

Compared to other ectopy? Would feel the same.

Quoted message said:

3)If I do have non-sustained VT, what is the likelihood of ending up
with an ICD?

Zero based on your history.

Quoted message said:

If it's idiopathic, how is that likelihood affected?

Not.

Quoted message said:

4)What was the diagnosis for anyone who had these short salvos like
the one's I experience now and then?

Depends on what is seen on the holter.

Quoted message said:

5)Any thoughts on magnesium, potassium, and calcium supplements?

Magnesium and potassium suppress ectopy while calcium does not.

Quoted message said:

6)Any thoughts on fish oil supplements?

Can suppress ectopy.

Quoted message said:

I sure hope these episodes are diet or some other controllable aspect
of lifestyle related. But whatever the outcome, this is life and I
have to play the hand I'm dealt, so be it. It could always be worse.

Have a great day,

Moo

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

MOO112 said:

Here are two additional questions:

-where in the chest area, or where and if at all, would non-sustained
VT beats be felt?

Same place as other ectopy.

Quoted message said:

-what significance are arrhythmias that can be triggered from a sudden
inhale or exhale? This happens to me on occasion. It is more likely to
happen during a bout of skipped beats.

Thanks again,

Moo

No significance.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

I am troubled by your statement that you were given a pacemaker for 1st degree
AV block. In fact this is totally unacceptable. It fits into no criteria for
pacer insertion. However your rapid tachyarrhythmias would be a reason to give
you back up pacing so that you could be adaquately treated for your troublesome
arrhythmias. Get more than one opinion from good electophysiologist.

Good Afternoon,

Thanks to Dr. Chung for his recent input.

The results of the Holter Monitor are in, and were as expected with
nothing out of the ordinary. The salvos are very elusive, so the nurse
at the doctor's office told me the doctor has scheduled me for an
event monitor, to be put in in a couple of weeks when it becomes
available. With these salvos lasting at 3 seconds or less, it will be
virtually impossible to capture one. But, if I get a lasting episode
of skipped beats, I will put it on and see what that's all about. I've
asked this before, but I will put this forth in case someone new is
reading: What else besides VT could create the perception of the heart
beating rapidly for 6 or 7 beats, which begin and end suddenly? Could
it not even be the heart, and perhaps some muscle near the breastbone
twitching? That last one sounds far fetched, but who knows.

That's all folks.

Thanks,

Moo

MOO112 said:

Good Afternoon,

Thanks to Dr. Chung for his recent input.

The results of the Holter Monitor are in, and were as expected with
nothing out of the ordinary. The salvos are very elusive, so the nurse
at the doctor's office told me the doctor has scheduled me for an
event monitor, to be put in in a couple of weeks when it becomes
available. With these salvos lasting at 3 seconds or less, it will be
virtually impossible to capture one. But, if I get a lasting episode
of skipped beats, I will put it on and see what that's all about. I've
asked this before, but I will put this forth in case someone new is
reading: What else besides VT could create the perception of the heart
beating rapidly for 6 or 7 beats, which begin and end suddenly?

Paroxysmal SVT.

Quoted message said:

Could
it not even be the heart, and perhaps some muscle near the breastbone
twitching? That last one sounds far fetched, but who knows.

Less likely.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

I have a feeling Moo is puting us on however for those who do not know about
event monitoring and that might be interested, I would like to explain how it
will catch your short salvos of SVT versus VT. There are several types of event
monitors. There are the post event monitors that one carries around and when
the patient gets an event they hold if to their chest or in some cases put
fingers on the poles and record. This type is certainly not the way to go in
most cases. The tracings are poor and the start of the event is not caught. The
other type of monitor is called a loop monitor. The loop monitor comes in
different models and brands. The newer ones have at least 10 minutes of memory
and are programable. They can be broken up to any combination or pre or post
recording. The patient wears the monitor all the time. It is connected with
several leads attached with electrodes. It can be programed to many short
events or one long for instance 5 minute pre 5 minute post event. When the
patient feels a symptom they push a button and this saves the last 5 minutes
already in memory and then records 5 minutes after the button is pushed.
Certainly your event will be caught in this way. Some of the monitors available
now also have auto trigger for brady and tachy heart rates. Increased heart
rates pre programmed into the recorder will automatically trigger the monitor
to save an event in the same way. Others have atrial fib auto triggers. Have
your doctor check into a programmable monitor rather than use the standard
30/30 and your arrhythmia will be caught for sure. The charges for these
monitors are the same. It may require a little investigation as to which
companies use the newer and more progressive monitors. Long pre and post are
especially better for old people that panic or syncope where the patient may
fall or pass out and minutes pass before the event button can be pressed. After
the recording is made the patient calls the receiving station and transmits
this data by placing the recorder to the mouth piece of the telephone and plays
the recording. The receiving computer takes the date and stores it in a data
base. It is interpreted amd printed and sent to your DR. Have a great day.
Your friend Complex

As long as we are talking about Event Monitoring, I was advised to use
a device called a "Lifewatch Monitor" monitor some months back. You
feel an arrhythmia, you push a button on this unit which is about the
size of a very thin yo-yo, and via a few pickups it records your heart
rhythm for 1 minute. Then after 5 or 6 recordings, you call an 800
number and download the data for evaluation. They lease this device
to you for 30 days. Total cost for the 30 days was ( now get ready
for this ) $650. I work in electronics and in my opinion this is a
total ripoff. This is why the cost of medical care and insurance is
beyond belief. So I can imagine that a unit that has more complex
programming will be in the thousands of dollars.

Bob

(Complex592) said:

I have a feeling Moo is puting us on however for those who do not know about
event monitoring and that might be interested, I would like to explain how it
will catch your short salvos of SVT versus VT. There are several types of event
monitors. There are the post event monitors that one carries around and when
the patient gets an event they hold if to their chest or in some cases put
fingers on the poles and record. This type is certainly not the way to go in
most cases. The tracings are poor and the start of the event is not caught. The
other type of monitor is called a loop monitor. The loop monitor comes in
different models and brands. The newer ones have at least 10 minutes of memory
and are programable. They can be broken up to any combination or pre or post
recording. The patient wears the monitor all the time. It is connected with
several leads attached with electrodes. It can be programed to many short
events or one long for instance 5 minute pre 5 minute post event. When the
patient feels a symptom they push a button and this saves the last 5 minutes
already in memory and then records 5 minutes after the button is pushed.
Certainly your event will be caught in this way. Some of the monitors available
now also have auto trigger for brady and tachy heart rates. Increased heart
rates pre programmed into the recorder will automatically trigger the monitor
to save an event in the same way. Others have atrial fib auto triggers. Have
your doctor check into a programmable monitor rather than use the standard
30/30 and your arrhythmia will be caught for sure. The charges for these
monitors are the same. It may require a little investigation as to which
companies use the newer and more progressive monitors. Long pre and post are
especially better for old people that panic or syncope where the patient may
fall or pass out and minutes pass before the event button can be pressed. After
the recording is made the patient calls the receiving station and transmits
this data by placing the recorder to the mouth piece of the telephone and plays
the recording. The receiving computer takes the date and stores it in a data
base. It is interpreted amd printed and sent to your DR. Have a great day.
Your friend Complex

Bob actually the charge for both are the same not $600 but in the area of
$1200. But realize that today all the insurance companies have contracts with
one company or the other and they do not pay the full price. Also lets
consider what you have been told. If you suspected having a dangerous
arrhythmia or even an annoying one why would you wait till you have 4 of them
in order to transmit them and find out if you were in jeoporady? It is
recommended that the patient call with each and every recording as soon as they
make then so that if it is significant the proper steps can be immediatally
taken. If a patient is having bouts of PAF, heart block, SVT, etc and they
are limited in duration what better way to diagnose the problem. It is non
invasive and fool proof if set up appropriatally. These events often are not
caught on holter because they dont happen every day. Incidenly they are being
billed out for just as much for 24 hours of recording. Good night Bob