Raliegh Twenty Overhaul questions

Sirrus Rider wrote:
[R20snip]
My question is what sort of chain does it use? Is it

Quoted message said:

masterlinked? Or do I use a chainbreaker? I looked for a master link but I
didn't find one. (It didn't jump out at me)

It can use whatever chain you've got, from a 6/7 speed number to a pink
bmx model. I suggest a KMC single speed chain in gold, as it's
inexpensive and impresses the ladies.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

My long term goal is to follow Shedlon's example and
convert one or both of them into what I term "Product Improved" Raleigh
Twenties with one following the spirit of the classic English three-speed
(but more than likely do 8speeds with the Sturmey Archer 8 speed rear hub)
by being set up for commuting.

AFAIK, the SA8 hub is 130mm spacing. No big deal to respace the drops,
but if you don't want to bother, an Sram P5 hub should fit as is.

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 02:09:46 -0600, "Sirrus Rider"

may have said:

About a year and a half ago I scored a pair of Raleigh Twenties off of
E-pay. One was mostly ridable the second is a bit of a basket case. One
green and one brown. Anyhow both need overhaul as the chains are dry and
rather gritty; consequently I want to pull the chains off to clean and
re-lube them . My question is what sort of chain does it use? Is it
masterlinked? Or do I use a chainbreaker? I looked for a master link but I
didn't find one. (It didn't jump out at me)

It could have just about any kind of regular bike chain on it. The OE
chain did not use a snaplink. To remove the chain in the absence of a
snaplink, no "special" tool is required, just a regular bike chain
breaker.

Quoted message said:

...What would you do if you had a pair of Twenties to play
with?

I'd probably get nagged about "what, we needed two more of those
little ones?"

After that, I think I would be tempted to follow what you've outlined.
I'd start running daily searches on eBay to come up with a suitable
genhub for the one that's generatorless now, and a pair of gearhubs to
update both. I wouldn't worry about whether the replacement hubs are
optimized for 20 inch wheels; the worst that can happen is that you'll
end up with a hub that was designed for 26", and the output will be
higher than you expected. (It's unwise to use a 20"-optimized hub on
a 26" wheel, as it won't have much output at low speeds.) For the hub
that has the wrong cones installed, my personal short-term solution
would be dependent on the cones that are present. If they will
function effectively with the hub but are simply unsuitable due to
lack of sealing, I'd build leather temporary shields (this is actually
just using tech that's from the earliest days of bicycles), take
measurements of the seal bore in the hub and other relevant
dimensions, and in My Copious Spare Time[TM] start a rummage search
through the local shops to try to locate more suitable replacements.
In the end, I suspect I'd probably end up cobbling together a mandrel
and peeling a set of dust shields out of aluminum by hand; it's
amazing what you can do with a set of files and a drill press if
you're determined, careful and patient, but that's not everyone's cup
of tea.

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John Lucci said:

Quoted message said:

My question is what sort of chain does it use? Is it
masterlinked? Or do I use a chainbreaker? I looked for a master link but I
didn't find one. (It didn't jump out at me)

There will almost certainly be a master link.

A well-meaning person said:

It can use whatever chain you've got, from a 6/7 speed number to a pink
bmx model.

'Fraid not. The stock chainring and sprocket are only for 1/8" wide
chain.

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/chains-wide.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My long term goal is to follow Shedlon's example and
convert one or both of them into what I term "Product Improved" Raleigh
Twenties with one following the spirit of the classic English three-speed
(but more than likely do 8speeds with the Sturmey Archer 8 speed rear hub)
by being set up for commuting.

AFAIK, the SA8 hub is 130mm spacing. No big deal to respace the drops,
but if you don't want to bother, an Sram P5 hub should fit as is.

The brake-less Sturmey-Archer 8-speed uses similar spacing to the AW,
somewhere in the 116-118 mm range. Fit nicely into my Raleigh Twenty.

http://sheldonbrown.org/raleigh-twenty.html

As to the generator hub issue, using one with a smaller wheel should
work OK as long as you use a modern lamp, such as Busch & Müller, that
includes solid-state voltage regulation circuitry.

I used to have a Moulton with a Dynohub (349 mm / 16" wheels) and was
never able to find a bulb that would both give good light _and_
reasonable lifespan, but that was before zener diodes and the like.
http://sheldonbrown.org/moulton-deluxe.html (That's a brand new page I
put up yesterday.)

Sheldon "Twenty" Brown
+----------------------------------------+
| Yes Britain set the world ablaze, |
| In good King George's glorious days! |
| --W.S. Gilbert |
+----------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Sheldon Brown said:

The brake-less Sturmey-Archer 8-speed uses similar spacing to the AW,
somewhere in the 116-118 mm range. Fit nicely into my Raleigh Twenty.

http://sheldonbrown.org/raleigh-twenty.html

The brakeless SA8 hub's spacing is claimed to be 124mm. 14mm is a bit
much to "spring apart" I'd say. And you end up with that awful twist
shifter. With the Sram, you can use a 5 speed trigger shifter, which is
inherently less goofy than some goldbergian twist setup.

http://www.cycle-world.co.uk/products.php?plid=m3b0s336p334&z=526

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 10:36:24 -0600, Werehatrack

may have said:

It could have just about any kind of regular bike chain on it. The OE
chain did not use a snaplink.

Correction: Although I am informed that the OE chain did use a
snaplink, whether it remains present will depend on who replaced it.

A snaplink is a convenient thing to have on such a bike, for a variety
of reasons. I'd have used one anyway, because I prefer using those
instead of trying to push a pin back in.

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On 16 Jan 2007 08:53:13 -0800, "landotter" <[email hidden]> may

have said:

The brakeless SA8 hub's spacing is claimed to be 124mm. 14mm is a bit
much to "spring apart" I'd say.

Eh, I've seen that much done more than once. Seldom done well or
professionally, and not to good effect in most cases. One memorable
example was a 130mm-spacing wheel that was bludgeoned[1] into the rear
of a cheap OPC single-speed frame. The chain was bent in two places,
several of the cassette teeth were twisted and/or deformed, and the
rest of the "bike" was just as abused. It was a police auction unit.
the only useful part on the whole thing was the freehub.

Quoted message said:

And you end up with that awful twist
shifter. With the Sram, you can use a 5 speed trigger shifter, which is
inherently less goofy than some goldbergian twist setup.

Ugh. Gripshifts. I hate gripshifts. I have yet to find one that I
can stand. Of course, that's a matter of personal reference; I'm
given to understand that there are people who really like them, and
want them on all of their bikes[2]. (Maybe that's how the Kent
Denali[3] ended up with a three-piece handle bar.)

[1] probably literally; the frame showed signs of the use of a big
hammer in that area.

[2] I keep expecting to see a single-speed hit the market with fake
gripshifts as a fashion statement.

[3] yes, I know it's a BSO, not a "real bike". It's also one of the
most goldbergian assemblies I've seen as a mainstream product.

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I wrote (from memory):

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The brake-less Sturmey-Archer 8-speed uses similar spacing to the AW,
somewhere in the 116-118 mm range. Fit nicely into my Raleigh Twenty.

http://sheldonbrown.org/raleigh-twenty.html

An anonymous poster replied:

Quoted message said:

The brakeless SA8 hub's spacing is claimed to be 124mm. 14mm is a bit
much to "spring apart" I'd say. And you end up with that awful twist
shifter. With the Sram, you can use a 5 speed trigger shifter, which is
inherently less goofy than some goldbergian twist setup.

http://www.cycle-world.co.uk/products.php?plid=m3b0s336p334&z=526

OK, today I managed to make it in to the shop, and hobbled upstairs to
measure the one we have in stock.

Here's the skinny:

It is supplied at 124 mm, but that includes _two_ 6 mm thick locknuts
on the left side.

You really only need one cone locknut, so if you remove one of 'em you
wind up with 118 mm spacing.

If you want to go narrower than that, you can substitute a standard 3
mm thick locknut, bringing the spacing to 115 mm.

I think that's what I did on my personal Twenty, but it's difficult for
me to get down to the cellar where it lives to check it out.

Sheldon "Spaceman" Brown
+-------------------------------------------------+
| One measurement is worth 50 expert opinions |
| --Howard Sutherland |
+-------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

If my rusty memory serves me correctly, 1/8" chains had master links
when i was a kid (1960's and 1970's).

The 3/32 chains didn't have master links until later - perhaps in the
late 1980's. Maybe this is because the 3/32 chains kept changing widths.

In any event, a cyclo chain tool can still break a 5/6/7/8 speed chain
and put it back together again - ANY CHAIN - EVEN AN SRAM WITH A
MASTERLINK. You just need some balls and finesse to do it, that's
all.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

On 16 Jan 2007 17:45:16 -0800, [email hidden] (Donald Gillies) may

have said:

In any event, a cyclo chain tool can still break a 5/6/7/8 speed chain
and put it back together again - ANY CHAIN - EVEN AN SRAM WITH A
MASTERLINK. You just need some balls and finesse to do it, that's
all.

Just don't do what one nearby genius tried, and attempt to press the
pin out of a snaplink using the chain tool.

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"Sheldon Brown" <[email hidden]> a écrit:

Quoted message said:

An anonymous poster replied:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The brakeless SA8 hub's spacing is claimed to be 124mm.

Quoted message said:

It is supplied at 124 mm, but that includes _two_ 6 mm thick
locknuts on the left side.

There are two versions, a 36h version that comes with a 170mm axle, 124mm
OLN, and a 28h version with 155mm axle, 116mm OLN:

http://www.sturmey-archer.com/hubs_8spd_XRF8.php

You need to scroll down in the info panel to see the details of the 28h
model.

James Thomson

Per Donald Gillies:

Quoted message said:

In any event, a cyclo chain tool can still break a 5/6/7/8 speed chain
and put it back together again - ANY CHAIN - EVEN AN SRAM WITH A
MASTERLINK. You just need some balls and finesse to do it, that's
all.

Problem I see with that is that one doesn't know that has exercised insufficient
balls and finesse until it parts under load.

And, depending on one's riding position/degree of effort when it parted, one
might wind up with considerably bigger balls than when one started - at least
for a week or so....
--
PeteCresswell