Raison d'etre for STI

censored Durbin said:

In another thread, Jobst Brandt postulated: "Fear of riding with only one hand on the bars got us
away from downtube shifters...."

Is that why most folks went to STI or Ergo shifters? Safety was not a consideration in my switch.
I was just looking to be able to shift more quickly.

I am wondering if other riders share Jobst's opinion on the reason that most riders switched to
STI or Ergo shifters.

[censored] Durbin Tallahassee

I had someone go into a long speech about how important STI ss for safety. They said that it's
dangerous to ever have one hand off of the bars. And they argued that "you have to look down to
shift" with downtube shifters. Hence, they thought that no bike should have downtube shifters for
safety reasons. But when I mentioned that most bikes have a water bottle just below the downtube
shifters and that involves looking down, taking one hand off of the bars, reaching down and tilting
your head back to drink, they just looked at me with disgust and walked away.

So I stuck with my downtube shifters! :-)

censored Durbin said:

Quoted message said:

In another thread, Jobst Brandt postulated: "Fear of riding with only one hand on the bars got us
away from downtube shifters...."

Is that why most folks went to STI or Ergo shifters? Safety was not a consideration in my switch.
I was just looking to be able to shift more quickly.

I am wondering if other riders share Jobst's opinion on the reason that most riders switched to
STI or Ergo shifters.

Back in the early '50s, front derailers wern't cable operated. The rider had to reach down to
the _seat_ tube and push a lever sideways to shift. This was a perfectly satisfactory system for
any Real Cyclist. There was only one moving part, no cables to stretch, a great system,
elegantly simple!

However, by the late '50s, the sport had been overrun with newbies and poseurs who were scared to
get their hands that far away from the handlebars, so new-fangled, namby-pamby cable operated front
derailers were introduced, where you only had to reach to the top of the down tube.

You might think this wasn't a big deal, just another choice--but just _try_ to find a lever type
front derailer anymore! The Evil Parts Cartel has conspired to remove this wonderfully simple option
from the marketplace and to force us all to use their Rube-Goldbergesque remote-controlled front
derailers instead. Harumpf! Bah! Pfooey!

Carapace Completed Umber St. Petersburg, Florida
+----------------------------------------------------------+
| The people who live in a Golden Age usually go around | complaining how yellow everything looks.
| | -- Randall Jarrell |
+----------------------------------------------------------+

"[censored] Durbin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In another thread, Jobst Brandt postulated: "Fear of riding with only one hand on the bars got us
away from downtube shifters...."

Is that why most folks went to STI or Ergo shifters? Safety was not a consideration in my switch.
I was just looking to be able to shift more quickly.

More quickly definitely, and also more comfortably. It's not to do with _fear_ of riding with only
one hand for most people, I would suggest, it's just that having the shifters on the bars is more
convenient.

With progress, we get luxury - dirty words to those who think cycling should be as hard as possible.
I find Ergos especially good when frequently shifting a close-ratio block, and being able to change
gear, brake and swerve sharply with precision all at the same time or within tenths of seconds of
each other is at least fun, if not safe. Brifters are obviously not so useful for those riders who
only change gear once every half hour.

I've used down tube levers (friction & indexed) for over twenty years and have had quite enough of
them! I expect to soon fit an alternative to the old bike I still have them on.

~PB

(censored Durbin) said:

In another thread, Jobst Brandt postulated: "Fear of riding with only one hand on the bars got us
away from downtube shifters...."

Is that why most folks went to STI or Ergo shifters? Safety was not a consideration in my switch. I
was just looking to be able to shift more quickly.

I am wondering if other riders share Jobst's opinion on the reason that most riders switched to STI
or Ergo shifters.

How about a combination of ease, quickness, and safety. In other words, a utilitarian and successful
technological advancement that v ritually everybody (except retrogrouches and Lance on the front
derailleur of his climbing bike a few TDF's ago) uses, so end of discussion. --dt

I have used downtube shifters exclusively, that is until a recent trip to the wine country. We
didn't want to haul our bikes up there so we found a LBS and rented some, VERY HEAVY, road bikes.
Within about 5 minutes of riding, I absolutely fell in love with these shifters. It is incredible
how fast one can shift, and at the precise instant that a different gear is actually needed. I have
plans to buy a new bike in the spring, I can't wait to use these shifters again, and it has nothing
to do with fear.

Speaking of renting bikes, here's a question, why don't more LBS rent good quality road bikes? And
if anyone knows of one near downtown Los Angeles does, please advise.

Michael

Quoted message said:

In another thread, Jobst Brandt postulated: "Fear of riding with only one hand on the bars got us
away from downtube shifters...."

Is that why most folks went to STI or Ergo shifters? Safety was not a consideration in my switch.
I was just looking to be able to shift more quickly.

I am wondering if other riders share Jobst's opinion on the reason that most riders switched to
STI or Ergo shifters.

[censored] Durbin Tallahassee

The reason STI shifting became so popular so quickly had nothing to do with safety; it's simply a
more convenient way to shift. You don't have to even think about moving your hands anywhere- when
you're in a situation where you might be required to shift (rolling terrain, sprinting, etc) you'll
most likely have moved your hands to the tops of the levers and can shift at any time without any
real thought. I think there are safety benefits to them (which was part of a long drawn-out thread
that doesn't need to be rehashed) but that's just icing on the cake. Even if there were no
possibility of them being safer, the convenience alone is enough (and that's what made them popular
initially; I don't ever recall selling them back in 1990-92, when they were catching on, as being a
safer way to ride).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

"[censored] Durbin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In another thread, Jobst Brandt postulated: "Fear of riding with only one hand on the bars got us
away from downtube shifters...."

Is that why most folks went to STI or Ergo shifters? Safety was not a consideration in my switch.
I was just looking to be able to shift more quickly.

I am wondering if other riders share Jobst's opinion on the reason that most riders switched to
STI or Ergo shifters.

[censored] Durbin Tallahassee

censored Durbin said:

In another thread, Jobst Brandt postulated: "Fear of riding with only one hand on the bars got us
away from downtube shifters...."

TThat's why I switched (and why I also switched to bar end shifters). I fdidn't feel comfortable
removing one hand to shift on downhills. Also, ttrimming the front derailler on a triple was a pain
with downtube sshifters.

censored Durbin said:

In another thread, Jobst Brandt postulated: "Fear of riding with only one hand on the bars got us
away from downtube shifters...."

Is that why most folks went to STI or Ergo shifters? Safety was not a consideration in my switch.
I was just looking to be able to shift more quickly.

This is one of Jobst's pet topics. It's more a reaction to people who are literally afraid to take a
hand off the bars than anything specifically against these shifters.

I have ridden with people who are afraid to take even one hand off the bar. One guy, I rode up next
to, introduced myself, and extended my hand to shake. He stared at my hand in disbelief and muttered
how he never took even one hand off the bars. My turn for disbelief. I think he stops to take a
drink from his water bottle.

So, maybe there are such folks in abundance, and for them the STIs might be the only way they
can ride. However, that certainly isn't the reason they were made, nor the reason that most
folks buy them.

I think it's easier to get a good shift with indexing, and the push-button type of indexing that
Ergo or STI gives is more accurate than downtube indexed shifters. It's also a bit quicker. I
have occasionally shifted while out of the saddle, which would have been impossible with
downtube shifters.

Of course most people buy them because that is what comes on the bike.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Become MicroSoft-free forever. Ask me how. _`\(,_ | (_)/ (_) |

censored Durbin said:

I am wondering if other riders share Jobst's opinion on the reason that most riders switched to
STI or Ergo shifters.

Not me. I broke an STI lever in a crash last summer. I rode with an Ultegra indexed downtube shifter
on one side for a few weeks until I replaced the STI shifter. I _really_ missed the ability to
quickly change gears, and got a solid understanding of why STI is so popular.
<G> For me, it just works better. I'd never go back!

Barry

[email hidden] ([censored] Durbin) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In another thread, Jobst Brandt postulated: "Fear of riding with only one hand on the bars got us
away from downtube shifters...."

Is that why most folks went to STI or Ergo shifters? Safety was not a consideration in my switch.
I was just looking to be able to shift more quickly.

I am wondering if other riders share Jobst's opinion on the reason that most riders switched to
STI or Ergo shifters.

[censored] Durbin Tallahassee

I was still racing when STI and then Ergo came out. Everyone I knew was getting them because they
thought they would offer faster shifting while racing; a performance advantage. Safety wasn't their
concern. I was working at a shop also, and as I recall, most customers just thought they seemed more
convienient. I finally switched after I no longer raced, mainly because I was no longer concerned
about wasting an astronomically expensive set of levers in some podunk crit. Does one need brifters?
No. To be competitive? No. Are they more convienient, faster to shift and possibly offer some safety
advantages? Yes. Also, with fewer and fewer frames coming with shift bosses, some folks just don't
have a freakin' choice! --Jim

In article <[email hidden]>, "David L. Johnson" <David L. Johnson

Quoted message said:

censored Durbin said:

In another thread, Jobst Brandt postulated: "Fear of riding with only one hand on the bars got us
away from downtube shifters...."

Is that why most folks went to STI or Ergo shifters? Safety was not a consideration in my switch.
I was just looking to be able to shift more quickly.

This is one of Jobst's pet topics. It's more a reaction to people who are literally afraid to take
a hand off the bars than anything specifically against these shifters.

I think I've noticed that too. I've also noticed how he tends to be right.

And, dilletante that I am, I've also noticed how when I take _one_ hand off the bars, there's always
a little, miniscule, squirrel-action. Not much, but it's there. In a critical situation, maybe it
would be too much?

Funny thing is, if I take *both* hands off at once and ride no-hands, that squirreliness
isn't there.

One hand, IME, is squirrelier than no hands, or both hands.

Weird, eh?

cheers, Tom

--
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remove NO_SPAM. from address to reply

"dmgatti" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I had someone go into a long speech about how important STI ss for safety. They said that it's
dangerous to ever have one hand off of the bars. And they argued that "you have to look down to
shift" with downtube shifters. Hence, they thought that no bike should have downtube shifters for
safety reasons. But when I mentioned that most bikes have a water bottle just below the downtube
shifters and that involves looking down

Not always. When you get used to a bike you don't look down.

Although after much summer touring on a tandem I discovered that it has the bottle in more or less
the same place as my other bike has front spokes.

STIs are hard to use when covered in blood BTW.

Mike DeMicco said:

censored Durbin said:

In another thread, Jobst Brandt postulated: "Fear of riding with only one hand on the bars got us
away from downtube shifters...."

TThat's why I switched (and why I also switched to bar end shifters). I fdidn't feel comfortable
removing one hand to shift on downhills. Also, ttrimming the front derailler on a triple was a pain
with downtube sshifters.

Probably a good reason for someone with poor hand-eye coordination such as that evidenced by your
typing skills. ;-)

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net home.earthlink.net~jeverett3Open ↗

Mike S. said:

While STI wasn't marketed as a safety innovation, I've found that when riding in a pack, you
definitely don't get as many "near misses" because the guy next to you is reaching down to shift
any more. Then again, it was ALWAYS the other guy making the mistakes...

It's amazing that we survived, I guess.... You learn quickly to shift without looking at the lever,
and we managed to do this without running into people any more than they do now. But we did miss
more shifts, even though we shifted less often.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "Business!" cried the Ghost. "Mankind was my business. The _`\(,_ | common welfare was my
business; charity, mercy, forbearance, (_)/ (_) | and benevolence, were, all, my business. The
dealings of my trade were but a drop of water in the comprehensive ocean of my business!"
--Dickens, "A Christmas Carol"

Matt O'Toole said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It is amazing how the bicycle weight aficionados ignore the weight of these levers and
extra cable.

I don't think the weight difference is as much as people assume. Last I looked, brifters were only
a couple of ounces heavier than plain brake levers from the same group. I don't know what 2-3
extra feet of cable/housing weighs, but I doubt it's all that much either.

A couple of ounces is a lot to the sort of people who start drilling holes in things to make
them lighter.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent. -- Walt Kelly

"Michael James Anderson" <[email hidden]> wondered in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Speaking of renting bikes, here's a question, why don't more LBS rent good quality road bikes?

People invariably ride them "like rentals".

I can barely keep up the maintenance on heavy mountain bike rentals with fat tires.

Road bikes have a life of between 30 and 60 days in our experience. Won't try that again.

--
Andrew Muzi yellowjersey.orgyellowjersey.orgOpen ↗ Open every day since 1 April 1971

snip <To be competitive? No> Heaven forbid you came out of the last corner of a crit in the wrong
gear with DT shifters! If you come out of the corner to accelerate, you needed to sit down, shift,
then reaccelerate. If you came out in the top end gear, you were forced to turn over this huge gear
till you got the speed back up again.

Now all you do is move a little lever, ease off on the pedals slightly and keep on sprinting!

Too bad Zap was so finicky. I had one of the shift buttons under my index finger when standing. I
didn't even have to move anything to change several gears in a sprint!

Mike "Meccanico di Bici" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] ([censored] Durbin) wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In another thread, Jobst Brandt postulated: "Fear of riding with only one hand on the bars got
us away from downtube shifters...."

Is that why most folks went to STI or Ergo shifters? Safety was not a consideration in my
switch. I was just looking to be able to shift more quickly.

I am wondering if other riders share Jobst's opinion on the reason that most riders switched to
STI or Ergo shifters.

[censored] Durbin Tallahassee

I was still racing when STI and then Ergo came out. Everyone I knew was getting them because they
thought they would offer faster shifting while racing; a performance advantage. Safety wasn't
their concern. I was working at a shop also, and as I recall, most customers just thought they
seemed more convienient. I finally switched after I no longer raced, mainly because I was no
longer concerned about wasting an astronomically expensive set of levers in some podunk crit. Does
one need brifters? No. To be competitive? No. Are they more convienient, faster to shift and
possibly offer some safety advantages? Yes. Also, with fewer and fewer frames coming with shift
bosses, some folks just don't have a freakin' choice! --Jim

"dmgatti" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

censored Durbin said:

In another thread, Jobst Brandt postulated: "Fear of riding with only one hand on the bars got
us away from downtube shifters...."

Is that why most folks went to STI or Ergo shifters? Safety was not a consideration in my
switch. I was just looking to be able to shift more quickly.

I am wondering if other riders share Jobst's opinion on the reason that most riders switched to
STI or Ergo shifters.

[censored] Durbin Tallahassee

I had someone go into a long speech about how important STI ss for safety. They said that it's
dangerous to ever have one hand off of the bars. And they argued that "you have to look down to
shift" with downtube shifters. Hence, they thought that no bike should have downtube shifters for
safety reasons. But when I mentioned that most bikes have a water bottle just below the downtube
shifters and that involves looking down, taking one hand off of the bars, reaching down and
tilting your head back to drink, they just looked at me with disgust and walked away.

So I stuck with my downtube shifters! :-)

Good Answer! (and decision). I wonder if anyone here remembers Suntour Command Shifters??? I had a
set on my old Roberts for 4 seasons.... I recall an ad from back then stating that some team manager
for a US team loved them because he could outfit an entire team for the price of one set of DA
Sti's...... Ah, the good old days. There seems to be a myth circulating around that Barcon's are
unsafe because you can accidently trigger them with your knees..... That may have contributed (a
little) to their falling out of favour. (except, why are they still spec'd on quite a few Touring
bikes???? seems like a miss-shift would be more of a concern to someone with 100lbs of gear split
60/40 on front and rear racks going down a lengthy grade.....than a racer with lightning fast
reflexes.... hmmm). OT: Does anyone here remember Proctor Townsend (or just Townsend) Frames???? Any
tales to tell? Take care All. Keith.

*------------------------------------------------* < > < "The knack lies in learning to throw
yourself > < -at the ground and miss" >
< D. Adams. > < > *------------------------------------------------*

David Damerell said:

I was wondering if anyone was going to mention bar ends. They're cheaper, they're not as fiddly,
you can maintain them,

Ergo shifters are not "fiddly" and you can maintain them, even upgrade them to handle more cogs.

Quoted message said:

they have a friction option (especially important in front when compared with Shimano's offering),

Ergo has a ratcheting left shifter that trims nicely.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not _`\(,_ | certain, and as
far as they are certain, they do not refer to (_)/ (_) | reality. -- Albert Einstein