Rail trails : first impressions

I've done a lot of rail trail riding, mostly in the New York area and Northeastern USA. My opinion
is similar to yours. Most of the trails are kind of dull if you've done a good amount of road riding
and enjoyed the luxury of having services along the way and actually ending up someplace when you're
finished with the ride. Rail trails, like the railroads that preceded them, tend to make use of
out-of-the-way space, and therefore do not pass through a lot of cool towns and that type of thing.

But, in general, I think Rail Trails are a marvelous idea and a great use of existing resources.
They are a perfect place for shaky riders and children to hone their riding skills, and they're a
great destination for day or weekend trips. I like to bring novice riders to the East Bay Bike Path
in Rhode Island, or the more rustic Nyack Rail Trail in Upper Westchester County, NY. We never have
a bad time and I've gotten quite a few people more into bicycling by introducing them to rail
trails. However, when I head out on my own, I prefer to use the road.

"Andrew Price" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tried a rail trail for the first time while on holidays in Beechworth (NE area of Victoria) and
as they are not common here in Oz I thought I might share the impressions having never tried
one before.

Rode with three friends all of whom ride with a club in Sydney - all basically roadies.

The trail is an ex country single line with the tracks and sleepers

replaced

Quoted message said:

with an aggregate bitumen mix - about 90kms of trail with a spur trail of about 20km up to where
we were staying - impressions / conclusions -

1. Feels odd, possibly because roads and railways are aligned way differently. The uphills are a
gentler grade but they can go on for a

longer

Quoted message said:

and almost boring duration than most road gradients.

2. Can't ride as a bunch as well on them - have to swap turns across the front 2 riders in a
double paceline - and have to single up a lot.

3. Not nearly as quick as the road, the aggregate surface didn't help but the "odd" feeling
persisted and tends to make your more cautious than you would be than touring on a road - kept
expecting a train around the next bend !

4. Would suit casual recreational riders, esp those with a major aversion

to

Quoted message said:

sharing the roads with cars and trucks - numbers of bike hire places are starting up in towns
along the trail usually hiring mtb's for limited jaunts.

5. The rail trail has, according to the locals, done some serious economic good to the townships
it goes through from tourism.

6. Doubt that they would accommodate a large number of riders in a mass event (might be different
if a two line rail trail)

7. Good for a single cyclist starting out wanting to do some distance but also wishing to avoid
cars etc whilst riding solo.

8. After about 70km wanted to and did go back to the road and stayed on

it -

Quoted message said:

and immediately felt better - could be force of habit but the road felt

way

Quoted message said:

nicer, faster and easier to access services like food and drink,

directions,

Quoted message said:

other things you tend to need occasionally when touring.

9. Very useful if they avoid a horror stretch of road you would rather not be on for that patch.

10. but, doubt that they are a long term substitute for quiet country

roads.

Quoted message said:

11. Might perhaps have a greater application in an urban environment to avoid/substitute for major
roads where the other traffic is horrific.

Tried the trail for 2 days only so the impressions might change with more use - I was sort of
hoping that they might really provide a practical long term separation between cars and cycles,
but I have my doubts on a single line conversion.

Would be interested if the experience varies in other places - best, Andrew

"NYRides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've done a lot of rail trail riding, mostly in the New York area and Northeastern USA. My opinion
is similar to yours. Most of the trails are kind of dull if you've done a good amount of road
riding and enjoyed the luxury of having services along the way and actually ending up someplace
when you're finished with the ride. Rail trails, like the railroads that preceded them, tend to
make use of out-of-the-way space, and therefore do not pass through a lot of cool towns and that
type of thing.

SNIP

While that might be true in some areas, some rails-to-trails have actually been an economic boon to
small towns, which had only seen more prosperous times when the railroad was in operation.

Case in point is the KATY trail in central Missouri. It runs 225 miles from St. Charles (just north
of St. Louis) to Clinton (northeast of Springfield) with a plan to ultimately connect to Kansas
City. Numerous bed and breakfasts, wineries, shops, eateries, etc. have benefitted from the
conversion. Not only is it great for day trips with the family, but hotels and campgrounds along the
way make it ideal for light touring, whether it be completed in two days or five.

As far as scenery goes - it doesn't get much better. Yeah the grades aren't likely to be more/less
than 2 percent, but more than half of the trail parallels the Missouri River, which can be seen from
the trail. Tall limestone bluffs overlooking the trail/river, caves and the mystique of treading in
the footsteps of Lewis and Clark couldn't be neater. Wildlife abounds with deer, turkey, various
songbirds and turkey vultures to name a few.

If I sound like I own the place - it's because I do - as a taxpayer of Missouri. I think you will
find few rails-to-trails conversions across the country that even come close to this one.

Kerry Nikolaisen

Greetings Andrew, The experience does indeed vary. You may like to check out the Lilydale-Warburton
rail trail, which has a surface of quartz toppings but is still fun to ride, and is an alternate to
that well known horror, the Warby Hwy. If you check out a copy of the Rail Trails book you will find
about 25 more, though there are actually about 50 in the state, depending on how you define a rail
trail, some are for walkies only. Murray to the Mountains (the one you travelled) is a good one
though. Regards, Ray.

Andrew Price said:

Tried a rail trail for the first time while on holidays in Beechworth (NE area of Victoria) and
as they are not common here in Oz I thought I might share the impressions having never tried
one before.

Rode with three friends all of whom ride with a club in Sydney - all basically roadies.

The trail is an ex country single line with the tracks and sleepers replaced with an aggregate
bitumen mix - about 90kms of trail with a spur trail of about 20km up to where we were staying -
impressions / conclusions -

1. Feels odd, possibly because roads and railways are aligned way differently. The uphills are a
gentler grade but they can go on for a longer and almost boring duration than most road
gradients.

2. Can't ride as a bunch as well on them - have to swap turns across the front 2 riders in a
double paceline - and have to single up a lot.

3. Not nearly as quick as the road, the aggregate surface didn't help but the "odd" feeling
persisted and tends to make your more cautious than you would be than touring on a road - kept
expecting a train around the next bend !

4. Would suit casual recreational riders, esp those with a major aversion to sharing the roads
with cars and trucks - numbers of bike hire places are starting up in towns along the trail
usually hiring mtb's for limited jaunts.

5. The rail trail has, according to the locals, done some serious economic good to the townships
it goes through from tourism.

6. Doubt that they would accommodate a large number of riders in a mass event (might be different
if a two line rail trail)

7. Good for a single cyclist starting out wanting to do some distance but also wishing to avoid
cars etc whilst riding solo.

8. After about 70km wanted to and did go back to the road and stayed on it - and immediately felt
better - could be force of habit but the road felt way nicer, faster and easier to access
services like food and drink, directions, other things you tend to need occasionally when
touring.

9. Very useful if they avoid a horror stretch of road you would rather not be on for that patch.

10. but, doubt that they are a long term substitute for quiet country roads.

11. Might perhaps have a greater application in an urban environment to avoid/substitute for major
roads where the other traffic is horrific.

Tried the trail for 2 days only so the impressions might change with more use - I was sort of
hoping that they might really provide a practical long term separation between cars and cycles, but
I have my doubts on a single line conversion.

Would be interested if the experience varies in other places - best, Andrew

"NYRides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

or the more rustic Nyack Rail Trail in Upper Westchester County, NY.

All true, but note that Nyack is in Rockland County, cross the river, not Westchester County

SB

Hmmmmm interesting, very interesting - UNBELIEVABLE actually.

Rail trails are very common in Victoria and have been for a long time.

1) 'Boring' is a problem with the imagination. Did you look for all the sensational birds and other
interesting things along the way - probably not, you are a townie and have not spent enough time
in tranquillity to learn appreciation. Takes some adjustment.

2) Hmmm yes and no - you need a tad more experience riding in a group on these trails.

3) Us locals think the surface is *great*. As to the delusions of a train coming around the next
bend - seek serious deep and meaningful therapy. If this is what the large cities does to you,
please god spare me ever going to the big smoke again.

4) "Would suit casual recreational riders" I am *stunned* by your comment and find it bizarre to
the extreme. Absolute and total bull manure. What is your major malfunction in life?

5) Absolutely correct. The numbers of people using these trails each week is impressive.
International tourists think they are absolutely *BLOODY SENSATIONAL* and cannot praise them
enough. I would estimate the international tourism growth figures would be awesome. I have been
riding with some on different rail trails with international tourists that are now back for
their third visit.

6) 'Mass events' don't want them and were never ever intended for that purpose

7) What the hell do you think the idea behind rail trails is - you really are unbelievable and
please stay in the city. Did you not see a lot of families, couples, young and old along the
track. I think it is *BLOODY AWESOME* seeing the families, couples and elderly on the track. It
gladdens my heart to see people getting out and enjoying the peace and tranquillity of the rail
trails of all types and ages. *PLEASE* don't come back - we don't need and want your type. Stay
in the plastic city you come from with your hyperactive personality disorder. You really have a
serious problem.

8) *PLEASE PLEASE* never come back. Stay in your plastic take away food city. This is *NOT* what
rail trails are about. The international tourists would be disgusted and shocked at the things
you have so far written. Locals and international tourists and some Australians like to have a
self cooked leisurely breakfast, lunch or dinner. I cannot believe you - find a new therapist as
you have no idea of enjoyment, pleasure, nature, friendship, tranquillity etc. etc. Eating on
the trail is an experience not a bloody take away food store - you are sick, really sick.

9) Why on earth would you use and share a road with cages and megalomaniac boxes when you can use a
rail trail with all the awesome benefits it provides - you are absolutely incredible in the
bizarreness of your 'reasoning'.

10) What the hell is your interpretation and reasoning against rail trails. Rail trails are
*substantially* preferential at any time to using any road you need to share with cages and
megalomaniac boxes. If you are not surrounded by noise, flashing psychedelic neon signs, Game
Boys and X Boxes you are not happy. I would *love* to see a proper psychiatric and personality
profile of you.

11) Why would they have a greater application in an urban environment. That is the problem you are
a disgusting plastic sick mentally defected city person - *PLEASE NEVER EVER RETURN TO USE
RAIL TRAILS*

You are just incredible in your sick city demented views and city outlook. I am not at all joking
when I suggest you seek deep and meaningful professional help for your problem. You obviously have
*NO* idea how to relax and enjoy yourself and live without a massive of crowd of people around you
pushing and shoving you every which way, and a McDonalds and Kentucky Fried Rabbit on every corner.

The Wodonga to Cudgewa rail trail is started and progressing well, with a *massive* support locally
and internationally, and will be an amazing journey for those capable of enjoying themselves in a
non-plastic society with no McDonalds or Kentucky Fried Beast on every bend. Cooking and preparing
your own food and leisurely taking your time eating and enjoying it, while watching the incredible
bird life in the North East of Victoria is what it is all about. You obviously have zero
appreciation for nature or tranquillity. I don't think you can have any idea what international
tourists say and think about these rail trails in Victoria. If you did, you would be ashamed at
what you have posted. If you do return, make sure it is after deep and meaningful mental therapy
and after you have learnt some appreciation for planning and cooking your own meals, appreciation
for peace and tranquillity, learnt a love of the wild and bird life and trees, and Australian
history. Australian history is unbelievably interesting as you can go and see it, discover it and
re-live it. You made not one mention of the wildlife or magnificent and various types of bushes and
trees along the way.

Do you have any appreciation for anything in nature and life?

please Please PLEASE stay in Sydney, N.S.W. the fifth rate everything do nothing positive or
meaningful state.
N.S.W. work on the principle that if you never ever do anything you can never be accused of failing
- just like that weak useless spineless blood sucking do nothing Murray Darling Basin
Commission.

--

"Andrew Price" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tried a rail trail for the first time while on holidays in Beechworth (NE area of Victoria) and
as they are not common here in Oz I thought I might share the impressions having never tried
one before.

Rode with three friends all of whom ride with a club in Sydney - all basically roadies.

The trail is an ex country single line with the tracks and sleepers

replaced

Quoted message said:

with an aggregate bitumen mix - about 90kms of trail with a spur trail of about 20km up to where
we were staying - impressions / conclusions -

1. Feels odd, possibly because roads and railways are aligned way differently. The uphills are a
gentler grade but they can go on for a

longer

Quoted message said:

and almost boring duration than most road gradients.

2. Can't ride as a bunch as well on them - have to swap turns across the front 2 riders in a
double paceline - and have to single up a lot.

3. Not nearly as quick as the road, the aggregate surface didn't help but the "odd" feeling
persisted and tends to make your more cautious than you would be than touring on a road - kept
expecting a train around the next bend !

4. Would suit casual recreational riders, esp those with a major aversion

to

Quoted message said:

sharing the roads with cars and trucks - numbers of bike hire places are starting up in towns
along the trail usually hiring mtb's for limited jaunts.

5. The rail trail has, according to the locals, done some serious economic good to the townships
it goes through from tourism.

6. Doubt that they would accommodate a large number of riders in a mass event (might be different
if a two line rail trail)

7. Good for a single cyclist starting out wanting to do some distance but also wishing to avoid
cars etc whilst riding solo.

8. After about 70km wanted to and did go back to the road and stayed on

it -

Quoted message said:

and immediately felt better - could be force of habit but the road felt

way

Quoted message said:

nicer, faster and easier to access services like food and drink,

directions,

Quoted message said:

other things you tend to need occasionally when touring.

9. Very useful if they avoid a horror stretch of road you would rather not be on for that patch.

10. but, doubt that they are a long term substitute for quiet country

roads.

Quoted message said:

11. Might perhaps have a greater application in an urban environment to avoid/substitute for major
roads where the other traffic is horrific.

Tried the trail for 2 days only so the impressions might change with more use - I was sort of
hoping that they might really provide a practical long term separation between cars and cycles,
but I have my doubts on a single line conversion.

Would be interested if the experience varies in other places - best, Andrew

"Mikita Corvana" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hmmmmm interesting, very interesting - UNBELIEVABLE actually.

Rail trails are very common in Victoria and have been for a long time.

1) 'Boring' is a problem with the imagination. Did you look for all the sensational birds and
other interesting things along the way - probably

not,

Quoted message said:

you are a townie and have not spent enough time in tranquillity to learn appreciation. Takes some
adjustment.

2) Hmmm yes and no - you need a tad more experience riding in a group on these trails.

3) Us locals think the surface is *great*. As to the delusions of a train coming around the next
bend - seek serious deep and meaningful therapy.

If

Quoted message said:

this is what the large cities does to you, please god spare me ever going

to

Quoted message said:

the big smoke again.

4) "Would suit casual recreational riders" I am *stunned* by your comment and find it bizarre to
the extreme. Absolute and total bull manure. What is your major malfunction in life?

5) Absolutely correct. The numbers of people using these trails each week is impressive.
International tourists think they are absolutely *BLOODY SENSATIONAL* and cannot praise them
enough. I would estimate the international tourism growth figures would be awesome. I have
been riding with some on different rail trails with international tourists that are

now

Quoted message said:

back for their third visit.

6) 'Mass events' don't want them and were never ever intended for that purpose

7) What the hell do you think the idea behind rail trails is - you really are unbelievable and
please stay in the city. Did you not see a lot of families, couples, young and old along the
track. I think it is *BLOODY AWESOME* seeing the families, couples and elderly on the track.
It gladdens my heart to see people getting out and enjoying

the

Quoted message said:

peace and tranquillity of the rail trails of all types and ages. *PLEASE* don't come back - we
don't need and want your type. Stay in the plastic city you come from with your hyperactive
personality disorder. You really have a serious problem.

8) *PLEASE PLEASE* never come back. Stay in your plastic take away food city. This is *NOT* what
rail trails are about. The international

tourists

Quoted message said:

would be disgusted and shocked at the things you have so far written. Locals and international
tourists and some Australians like to have a self cooked leisurely breakfast, lunch or dinner. I
cannot believe you - find

a

Quoted message said:

new therapist as you have no idea of enjoyment, pleasure, nature, friendship, tranquillity etc.
etc. Eating on the trail is an experience

not

Quoted message said:

a bloody take away food store - you are sick, really sick.

9) Why on earth would you use and share a road with cages and megalomaniac boxes when you can use
a rail trail with all the awesome benefits it provides - you are absolutely incredible in the
bizarreness of your 'reasoning'.

10) What the hell is your interpretation and reasoning against rail

trails.

Quoted message said:

Rail trails are *substantially* preferential at any time to using any road you need to share with
cages and megalomaniac boxes. If you are not surrounded by noise, flashing psychedelic neon signs,
Game Boys and X

Boxes

Quoted message said:

you are not happy. I would *love* to see a proper psychiatric and personality profile of you.

11) Why would they have a greater application in an urban environment. That is the problem you
are a disgusting plastic sick mentally defected

city

Quoted message said:

person - *PLEASE NEVER EVER RETURN TO USE RAIL TRAILS*

You are just incredible in your sick city demented views and city outlook. I am not at all joking
when I suggest you seek deep and meaningful professional help for your problem. You obviously
have *NO* idea how to relax and enjoy yourself and live without a massive of crowd of people
around you pushing and shoving you every which way, and a McDonalds and Kentucky Fried Rabbit on
every corner.

The Wodonga to Cudgewa rail trail is started and progressing well, with a *massive* support
locally and internationally, and will be an amazing journey for those capable of enjoying
themselves in a non-plastic society with no McDonalds or Kentucky Fried Beast on every bend.
Cooking and preparing your own food and leisurely taking your time eating and enjoying it, while
watching the incredible bird life in the North East of Victoria

is

Quoted message said:

what it is all about. You obviously have zero appreciation for nature or tranquillity. I don't
think you can have any idea what international tourists say and think about these rail trails in
Victoria. If you did, you would be

ashamed

Quoted message said:

at what you have posted. If you do return, make sure it is after deep and meaningful mental
therapy and after you have learnt some appreciation for planning and cooking your own meals,
appreciation for peace and tranquillity, learnt a love of the wild and bird life and trees, and
Australian history. Australian history is unbelievably interesting as you can go and see it,
discover it and re-live it. You made not one mention

of

Quoted message said:

the wildlife or magnificent and various types of bushes and trees along

the

Quoted message said:

way.

Do you have any appreciation for anything in nature and life?

please Please PLEASE stay in Sydney, N.S.W. the fifth rate everything do nothing positive or
meaningful state.
N.S.W. work on the principle that if you never ever do anything you can never be accused of
failing - just like that weak useless spineless blood sucking do nothing Murray Darling
Basin Commission.

hmm catch you at a bad time Mikita? I like your comment: "The international tourists would be
disgusted and shocked at the things you have so far written" I think your comments have just made it
worse... I wonder if all locals are like you?Why do you hate city people so much? No all people are
like your ex-partner

"Mikita Corvana" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hmmmmm interesting, very interesting - UNBELIEVABLE actually.

Rail trails are very common in Victoria and have been for a long time.

1) 'Boring' is a problem with the imagination. Did you look for all the sensational birds and
other interesting things along the way - probably

not,

Quoted message said:

you are a townie and....

<snip further stereotyping and abuse>

Quoted message said:

I am not at all joking when I suggest you seek deep and meaningful professional help for your
problem.

Is this what you used? Maybe you need to ask for your money back.

It is sad to see someone getting so wound up over a few reasonable, albeit opinionated comments
about our humble old rail trails. They do make for very pleasant cycling, and some cover quite a
distance, but no, they do not replace the good old country roads which can be very quiet, safe and
scenic if you choose carefully. Above all else, ride your bike.

Cheers Peter

We have some pretty decent rail trails around Toronto, and I use them extensively to do distance
riding. On a good day, I'll manage between 120-200km of riding, all on the rail trail, albeit not at
any great speed (I only average about 25kmh on the rail trails.)

Though I am contemplating getting a road bike next year, as we have some decent back roads where I
live and a very active road bike club, the rail trails will still offer me some of what road biking
cannot: tranquility. About the only concern I have out on the rail trails is a darting chipmunk,
rabbit, or occasional deer. No cars, no motors, no exhaust fumes, no blaring radios, etc. It is very
peaceful(weekday riding, weekend riding the trails can be busy).

This time of year here, with the leaves changing colour, and most people at work, the rail
trails provide a sensation of being out in the wilderness all by myself, and that is priceless
for this city boy.

"Andrew Price" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tried a rail trail for the first time while on holidays in Beechworth (NE area of Victoria) and
as they are not common here in Oz I thought I might share the impressions having never tried
one before.

Rode with three friends all of whom ride with a club in Sydney - all basically roadies.

The trail is an ex country single line with the tracks and sleepers

replaced

Quoted message said:

with an aggregate bitumen mix - about 90kms of trail with a spur trail of about 20km up to where
we were staying - impressions / conclusions -

1. Feels odd, possibly because roads and railways are aligned way differently. The uphills are a
gentler grade but they can go on for a

longer

Quoted message said:

and almost boring duration than most road gradients.

2. Can't ride as a bunch as well on them - have to swap turns across the front 2 riders in a
double paceline - and have to single up a lot.

3. Not nearly as quick as the road, the aggregate surface didn't help but the "odd" feeling
persisted and tends to make your more cautious than you would be than touring on a road - kept
expecting a train around the next bend !

4. Would suit casual recreational riders, esp those with a major aversion

to

Quoted message said:

sharing the roads with cars and trucks - numbers of bike hire places are starting up in towns
along the trail usually hiring mtb's for limited jaunts.

5. The rail trail has, according to the locals, done some serious economic good to the townships
it goes through from tourism.

6. Doubt that they would accommodate a large number of riders in a mass event (might be different
if a two line rail trail)

7. Good for a single cyclist starting out wanting to do some distance but also wishing to avoid
cars etc whilst riding solo.

8. After about 70km wanted to and did go back to the road and stayed on

it -

Quoted message said:

and immediately felt better - could be force of habit but the road felt

way

Quoted message said:

nicer, faster and easier to access services like food and drink,

directions,

Quoted message said:

other things you tend to need occasionally when touring.

9. Very useful if they avoid a horror stretch of road you would rather not be on for that patch.

10. but, doubt that they are a long term substitute for quiet country

roads.

Quoted message said:

11. Might perhaps have a greater application in an urban environment to avoid/substitute for major
roads where the other traffic is horrific.

Tried the trail for 2 days only so the impressions might change with more use - I was sort of
hoping that they might really provide a practical long term separation between cars and cycles,
but I have my doubts on a single line conversion.

Would be interested if the experience varies in other places - best, Andrew

Ian said:

We have some pretty decent rail trails around Toronto, and I use them extensively to do distance
riding. On a good day, I'll manage between 120-200km of riding, all on the rail trail, albeit not
at any great speed (I only average about 25kmh on the rail trails.)

Though I am contemplating getting a road bike next year, as we have some decent back roads where I
live and a very active road bike club, the rail trails will still offer me some of what road
biking cannot: tranquility. About the only concern I have out on the rail trails is a darting
chipmunk, rabbit, or occasional deer. No cars, no motors, no exhaust fumes, no blaring radios,
etc. It is very peaceful(weekday riding, weekend riding the trails can be busy).

This time of year here, with the leaves changing colour, and most people at work, the rail trails
provide a sensation of being out in the wilderness all by myself, and that is priceless for this
city boy.

What would they be like for ice/snow biking?

--
Bob M in CT Remove 'x.' to reply

Hi Andrew, I've ridden on the Hamilton-Brantford rail trail (in southern Ontario, Canada) which is
32 km long. Most of the riders on it were recreational and I barely saw anyone in the middle of the
ride. (most people were riding at the ends and turning around) When I rode on the trail I had
already ridden 90 km on the road to get to the trail and so the switch to the pea gravel was not so
much fun. I was riding a rigid mtb with slick wide tires and it was somewhat of a rough ride.

The scenery was somewhat repetitive and boring after a while. I also expected it to have been more
shaded by the surrounding trees but it was actually quite warm and sunny. The uphill was very
gradual and I did not notice I was actually going uphill until about 12 km in I started being able
to go much faster with much less effort. 🙂

Overall it was a pleasant ride and nice to be able to go between two cities avoiding traffic
(although there were somewhat frequent crossings) but I think if I were doing the same route again I
would try to plot out some relatively quiet roads instead.

Tanya

"Andrew Price" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Tried a rail trail for the first time while on holidays in Beechworth (NE area of Victoria) and
as they are not common here in Oz I thought I might share the impressions having never tried
one before.

Rode with three friends all of whom ride with a club in Sydney - all basically roadies.

The trail is an ex country single line with the tracks and sleepers replaced with an aggregate
bitumen mix - about 90kms of trail with a spur trail of about 20km up to where we were staying -
impressions / conclusions -

1. Feels odd, possibly because roads and railways are aligned way differently. The uphills are a
gentler grade but they can go on for a longer and almost boring duration than most road
gradients.

2. Can't ride as a bunch as well on them - have to swap turns across the front 2 riders in a
double paceline - and have to single up a lot.

3. Not nearly as quick as the road, the aggregate surface didn't help but the "odd" feeling
persisted and tends to make your more cautious than you would be than touring on a road - kept
expecting a train around the next bend !

4. Would suit casual recreational riders, esp those with a major aversion to sharing the roads
with cars and trucks - numbers of bike hire places are starting up in towns along the trail
usually hiring mtb's for limited jaunts.

5. The rail trail has, according to the locals, done some serious economic good to the townships
it goes through from tourism.

6. Doubt that they would accommodate a large number of riders in a mass event (might be different
if a two line rail trail)

7. Good for a single cyclist starting out wanting to do some distance but also wishing to avoid
cars etc whilst riding solo.

8. After about 70km wanted to and did go back to the road and stayed on it - and immediately felt
better - could be force of habit but the road felt way nicer, faster and easier to access
services like food and drink, directions, other things you tend to need occasionally when
touring.

9. Very useful if they avoid a horror stretch of road you would rather not be on for that patch.

10. but, doubt that they are a long term substitute for quiet country roads.

11. Might perhaps have a greater application in an urban environment to avoid/substitute for major
roads where the other traffic is horrific.

Tried the trail for 2 days only so the impressions might change with more use - I was sort of
hoping that they might really provide a practical long term separation between cars and cycles,
but I have my doubts on a single line conversion.

Would be interested if the experience varies in other places - best, Andrew

"Peter Signorini" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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"Mikita Corvana" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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I have ridden some rail to trails here in the US. I think its all in what you are into, when going
on a biking trip. I found them nice because I'm a nature nut. The rail routes seemed to go through
areas where even roads didnt. So I found this very nice, the wildlife, scenery etc. Sometimes rural
roads can get boring to me. Urban sprawl etc. In afew areas it seemed to add a tourist aspect to
some small towns that didnt seem to be there before. With that said, they are built more for the
recreational rider, so it isnt always a a good option for someone who wants to commute, in that case
the roads are better. But I do think its a good way to push bicycling and outdoor exercise, which to
me is good thing.

Andrew Price said:

Tried a rail trail for the first time while on holidays in Beechworth (NE area of Victoria) and as
they are not common here in Oz I thought I might share the impressions having never tried one
before. ...

The trail is an ex country single line with the tracks and sleepers replaced with an aggregate
bitumen mix - about 90kms of trail with a spur trail of about 20km up to where we were staying -
impressions / conclusions -

1. [Shallower grades].

It is both an advantage and a problem. It definitely is faster to ride an entire day on grades that
are less than 2%; however, this feature sometimes mean the railroad has been routed in a way that is
less scenic.

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2. Can't ride as a bunch as well on them ...

Rail trails and bike trails in general are 2-lane bicycle roads. As such, the cyclists' behaviour
needs to be similar to that of car drivers on a 2-lane highway. In other words, one passes and one
gets back in line. Highways may sometimes be negociated as a double paceline, but that's at the
expense of other users of the road. You won't hear about tourers touring side by side, unless they
ride on an isolated road and can watch their behind very closely.

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3. Not nearly as quick as the road, the aggregate surface didn't help but the "odd" feeling
persisted and tends to make your more cautious than you would be than touring on a road.

Dry well-compacted aggregates are almost as good as asphalt, but riding on a rainy soil is quite
different and some trails are rather soft. I have used some trail sections as alternates and avoided
others for precisely that reason. But even hard aggregate is noisier than asphalt, which makes it a
bit harder to approach wildlife. On the other hand, paved trails could be done, but they would
require _very_ good foundations, otherwise they wouldn't last in Canadian weather.

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....
9. Very useful if they avoid a horror stretch of road you would rather not be on for that patch.

10. but, doubt that they are a long term substitute for quiet country roads.

...especially that building a full network is unrealistic.

I have used a few so far; all in Québec (Canada). Each one has a few features that make it
interesting.

1. Le petit train du Nord: The railroad was built long before the highways and it uses the most
scenic spots. It also was a low-speed railroad, which means it curves a lot. Gentle curves,
still, but definitely not boring.

Mont-Laurier is also a nice place to visit, but doing a return trip via the highway once and the
trail once is the only way to avoid backtracking. And hills on the highway are something.

2. La piste Jacques-Cartier - Portneuf The Trail is OK, but most importantly the highway has quite a
few killer hills. I got 19 km/h on that trail this Summer (loaded touring while towing a
trailercycle) and I doubt I could have got over 17-18 km/h on the highway.

3. the trail between Lévis and Victoriaville The trail is totally straight and boring. Its main
advantages were 15 km less than highway 116 which is not exactly scenic anyway, and more shelter
from a strong headwind.

"Michel Gagnon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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"Andrew Price" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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2. Can't ride as a bunch as well on them ...

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Rail trails and bike trails in general are 2-lane bicycle roads. As such, the cyclists' behaviour
needs to be similar to that of car drivers on a 2-lane highway. In other words, one passes and one
gets back in line. Highways may sometimes be negociated as a double paceline, but that's at the
expense of other users of the road. You won't hear about tourers touring side by side, unless they
ride on an isolated road and can watch their behind very closely.

This is true, but depending on traffic it can be quite safe to ride side by side on rail trails.
Because the grades and turns are so gradual, you can see for hundreds of yards down the trail -- so
it's easy to see if someone's coming.

One of the neat things about rail trails is that they foster social rides, where everyone can hang
together and talk.

Matt O.

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"Andrew Price" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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2. Can't ride as a bunch as well on them ...

"Michel Gagnon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Rail trails and bike trails in general are 2-lane bicycle roads. As such, the cyclists'
behaviour needs to be similar to that of car drivers on a 2-lane highway....

"Matt O'Toole" replied:

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This is true, but depending on traffic it can be quite safe to ride side

by side

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on rail trails. Because the grades and turns are so gradual, you can see

for

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hundreds of yards down the trail -- so it's easy to see if someone's

coming.

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One of the neat things about rail trails is that they foster social rides,

where

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everyone can hang together and talk.

Michel Gagnon then added:

True. Riding side by side is generally impossible for urban or quasi-urban trails (in Montréal
anyway), but on rural trails, traffic dwindles very rapidly outside towns. But except in most remote
areas, I don't see a problem riding socially side by side, but it would be problematic to ride in a
competitive paceline on a trail... which is, I think, what the original poster wanted to do.

Regards,

Michel

"Andrew Price" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Thanks Andrew, fair comments, just depends on why you want to use a rail trail. For many it will be
the experience in itself, not just avoiding wild redneck drivers on country roads or horrendous
hills (yes South Island NZ style....)

For some another rail trail might have a look at the Otago Central Rail Trail from Middlemarch to
Clyde in New Zealand

Official Site otagocentralrailtrail.co.nzotagocentralrailtrail.co.nzOpen ↗

otagorailtrail.co.nzotagorailtrail.co.nzOpen ↗ railtrail.co.nzrailtrail.co.nzOpen ↗

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The trail is an ex country single line with the tracks and sleepers

replaced

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with an aggregate bitumen mix - about 90kms of trail with a spur trail of about 20km up to where
we were staying - impressions / conclusions -

Bitumen!... luxury - I had always considered railtrails to be shingle (dolomite etc) essentially had
packed ground stones. Just the rail line with the with rails, sleepers and large stones removed

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1. Feels odd, possibly because roads and railways are aligned way differently. The uphills are a
gentler grade but they can go on for a

longer

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and almost boring duration than most road gradients.

Boring? - have you considered that maybe enjoying the scenery or the conversation with fellow
riders... Good for some beginners or in my case my wife would not have joined me on the roads in NZ.
The rail trail was a great way to get her involved. Tunnels, viaducts, crossings. Scenic view of
snow capped mountains. Boring not!!

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2. Can't ride as a bunch as well on them - have to swap turns across the front 2 riders in a
double paceline - and have to single up a lot.

Last thing I would expect to see on a railtrail

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3. Not nearly as quick as the road, the aggregate surface didn't help but the "odd" feeling
persisted and tends to make your more cautious than you would be than touring on a road - kept
expecting a train around the next bend !

Hmm might counter with the nervous feeling that every approaching vehicle will run you off the
pacific highway

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4. Would suit casual recreational riders, esp those with a major aversion

to

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sharing the roads with cars and trucks - numbers of bike hire places are starting up in towns
along the trail usually hiring mtb's for limited jaunts.

Even a family affair. cityofdunedin.comcityOpen ↗

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5. The rail trail has, according to the locals, done some serious economic good to the townships
it goes through from tourism.

Good accommodation, car storage, transport and collect services most importantly good pubs at breaks
in the trail.

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6. Doubt that they would accommodate a large number of riders in a mass event (might be different
if a two line rail trail)

There are events in NZ that utilise the railtrails.

AOK Rally otago-tourism.co.nzroute.htmlOpen ↗

or on the rail trail site Challenge Duathlon Saturday 28 and Sunday 29 February 2004 150 kms Clyde
Railhead to Middlemarch Day 1 : 90 kms Clyde Railhead to Ranfurly Day 2 : 60kms Ranfurly to
Middlemarch

or goldrush.co.nzgoldrush.co.nzOpen ↗ (multisport with running along trails)

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7. Good for a single cyclist starting out wanting to do some distance but also wishing to avoid
cars etc whilst riding solo.

Yes, but can remove reference to single solo.

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8. After about 70km wanted to and did go back to the road and stayed on

it -

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and immediately felt better - could be force of habit but the road felt

way

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nicer, faster and easier to access services like food and drink,

directions,

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other things you tend to need occasionally when touring.

All depends what you are looking for - Was fast a key criteria. Alot of people enjoy the rail trails
as they are not pushed along by traffic...

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9. Very useful if they avoid a horror stretch of road you would rather not be on for that patch.

agree

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10. but, doubt that they are a long term substitute for quiet country

roads. Not a substitute but an alternative.

Quoted message said:

11. Might perhaps have a greater application in an urban environment to avoid/substitute for major
roads where the other traffic is horrific.

Quoted message said:

Tried the trail for 2 days only so the impressions might change with more use - I was sort of
hoping that they might really provide a practical long term separation between cars and cycles,
but I have my doubts on a single line conversion.

Quoted message said:

Would be interested if the experience varies in other places - best, Andrew

Thoroughly enjoyed and would welcome comments from others having tried the trail.

I took a Saturday in the first week of October to do the Bright -> Wangaratta rail trail. Turned back 20kms from [censored] for a total of about 137 kms.

The Pros:

Fresh air - plenty of it...breathe in the aroma of flowers, trees and cow manure as opposed to the exhaust fumes of trucks and cars in the city.

View - Win XP desktop country...serious!

Traffic - Hardly any.

The Cons:

View - Win XP desktop looks the same after 100kms.

Surface - It's hard on the bottom with slick tyres. At the 80km mark I was uncomfortable, by 100 kms it was hurting, by 120kms I was in agony and 8 hours...I did ATB yesterday and things only got uncomfortable at the 150kms mark because most of the roads are so smooth. Almost 10 hours and no sweat. Also - you DO go slower.

Flies - Swallowed 7 -> If you don't count the 1st one I spat out. Figured it was easier just to swallow and then swig down some water. Also - keep your sunnies on as long as you can. I copped a fly in the eye at dusk on the trip home and spent 5 mins blinking and washing out my eye. It finally came out...in 2 bits.