Rail trails : first impressions

I've done a lot of rail trail riding, mostly in the New York area and
Northeastern USA. My opinion is similar to yours. Most of the trails are
kind of dull if you've done a good amount of road riding and enjoyed the
luxury of having services along the way and actually ending up someplace
when you're finished with the ride. Rail trails, like the railroads that
preceded them, tend to make use of out-of-the-way space, and therefore do
not pass through a lot of cool towns and that type of thing.

But, in general, I think Rail Trails are a marvelous idea and a great use of
existing resources. They are a perfect place for shaky riders and children
to hone their riding skills, and they're a great destination for day or
weekend trips. I like to bring novice riders to the East Bay Bike Path in
Rhode Island, or the more rustic Nyack Rail Trail in Upper Westchester
County, NY. We never have a bad time and I've gotten quite a few people
more into bicycling by introducing them to rail trails. However, when I
head out on my own, I prefer to use the road.

"Andrew Price" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tried a rail trail for the first time while on holidays in Beechworth (NE
area of Victoria) and as they are not common here in Oz I thought I might
share the impressions having never tried one before.

Rode with three friends all of whom ride with a club in Sydney - all
basically roadies.

The trail is an ex country single line with the tracks and sleepers

replaced

Quoted message said:

with an aggregate bitumen mix - about 90kms of trail with a spur trail of
about 20km up to where we were staying - impressions / conclusions -

1. Feels odd, possibly because roads and railways are aligned way
differently. The uphills are a gentler grade but they can go on for a

longer

Quoted message said:

and almost boring duration than most road gradients.

2. Can't ride as a bunch as well on them - have to swap turns across the
front 2 riders in a double paceline - and have to single up a lot.

3. Not nearly as quick as the road, the aggregate surface didn't help but
the "odd" feeling persisted and tends to make your more cautious than you
would be than touring on a road - kept expecting a train around the next
bend !

4. Would suit casual recreational riders, esp those with a major aversion

to

Quoted message said:

sharing the roads with cars and trucks - numbers of bike hire places are
starting up in towns along the trail usually hiring mtb's for limited
jaunts.

5. The rail trail has, according to the locals, done some serious economic
good to the townships it goes through from tourism.

6. Doubt that they would accommodate a large number of riders in a mass
event (might be different if a two line rail trail)

7. Good for a single cyclist starting out wanting to do some distance but
also wishing to avoid cars etc whilst riding solo.

8. After about 70km wanted to and did go back to the road and stayed on

it -

Quoted message said:

and immediately felt better - could be force of habit but the road felt

way

Quoted message said:

nicer, faster and easier to access services like food and drink,

directions,

Quoted message said:

other things you tend to need occasionally when touring.

9. Very useful if they avoid a horror stretch of road you would rather not
be on for that patch.

10. but, doubt that they are a long term substitute for quiet country

roads.

Quoted message said:

11. Might perhaps have a greater application in an urban environment to
avoid/substitute for major roads where the other traffic is horrific.

Tried the trail for 2 days only so the impressions might change with more
use - I was sort of hoping that they might really provide a practical long
term separation between cars and cycles, but I have my doubts on a single
line conversion.

Would be interested if the experience varies in other places - best,
Andrew

"NYRides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've done a lot of rail trail riding, mostly in the New York area and
Northeastern USA. My opinion is similar to yours. Most of the trails are
kind of dull if you've done a good amount of road riding and enjoyed the
luxury of having services along the way and actually ending up someplace
when you're finished with the ride. Rail trails, like the railroads that
preceded them, tend to make use of out-of-the-way space, and therefore do
not pass through a lot of cool towns and that type of thing.

SNIP

While that might be true in some areas, some rails-to-trails have actually
been an economic boon to small towns, which had only seen more prosperous
times when the railroad was in operation.

Case in point is the KATY trail in central Missouri. It runs 225 miles from
St. Charles (just north of St. Louis) to Clinton (northeast of Springfield)
with a plan to ultimately connect to Kansas City. Numerous bed and
breakfasts, wineries, shops, eateries, etc. have benefitted from the
conversion. Not only is it great for day trips with the family, but hotels
and campgrounds along the way make it ideal for light touring, whether it be
completed in two days or five.

As far as scenery goes - it doesn't get much better. Yeah the grades aren't
likely to be more/less than 2 percent, but more than half of the trail
parallels the Missouri River, which can be seen from the trail. Tall
limestone bluffs overlooking the trail/river, caves and the mystique of
treading in the footsteps of Lewis and Clark couldn't be neater. Wildlife
abounds with deer, turkey, various songbirds and turkey vultures to name a
few.

If I sound like I own the place - it's because I do - as a taxpayer of
Missouri. I think you will find few rails-to-trails conversions across the
country that even come close to this one.

Kerry Nikolaisen

Greetings Andrew,
The experience does indeed vary. You may
like to check out the Lilydale-Warburton rail trail, which has a surface
of quartz toppings but is still fun to ride, and is an alternate to that
well known horror, the Warby Hwy. If you check out a copy of the Rail
Trails book you will find about 25 more, though there are actually about
50 in the state, depending on how you define a rail trail, some are for
walkies only. Murray to the Mountains (the one you travelled) is a good
one though.
Regards,
Ray.

Andrew Price said:

Tried a rail trail for the first time while on holidays in Beechworth (NE
area of Victoria) and as they are not common here in Oz I thought I might
share the impressions having never tried one before.

Rode with three friends all of whom ride with a club in Sydney - all
basically roadies.

The trail is an ex country single line with the tracks and sleepers replaced
with an aggregate bitumen mix - about 90kms of trail with a spur trail of
about 20km up to where we were staying - impressions / conclusions -

1. Feels odd, possibly because roads and railways are aligned way
differently. The uphills are a gentler grade but they can go on for a longer
and almost boring duration than most road gradients.

2. Can't ride as a bunch as well on them - have to swap turns across the
front 2 riders in a double paceline - and have to single up a lot.

3. Not nearly as quick as the road, the aggregate surface didn't help but
the "odd" feeling persisted and tends to make your more cautious than you
would be than touring on a road - kept expecting a train around the next
bend !

4. Would suit casual recreational riders, esp those with a major aversion to
sharing the roads with cars and trucks - numbers of bike hire places are
starting up in towns along the trail usually hiring mtb's for limited
jaunts.

5. The rail trail has, according to the locals, done some serious economic
good to the townships it goes through from tourism.

6. Doubt that they would accommodate a large number of riders in a mass
event (might be different if a two line rail trail)

7. Good for a single cyclist starting out wanting to do some distance but
also wishing to avoid cars etc whilst riding solo.

8. After about 70km wanted to and did go back to the road and stayed on it -
and immediately felt better - could be force of habit but the road felt way
nicer, faster and easier to access services like food and drink, directions,
other things you tend to need occasionally when touring.

9. Very useful if they avoid a horror stretch of road you would rather not
be on for that patch.

10. but, doubt that they are a long term substitute for quiet country roads.

11. Might perhaps have a greater application in an urban environment to
avoid/substitute for major roads where the other traffic is horrific.

Tried the trail for 2 days only so the impressions might change with more
use - I was sort of hoping that they might really provide a practical long
term separation between cars and cycles, but I have my doubts on a single
line conversion.

Would be interested if the experience varies in other places - best,
Andrew

"NYRides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

or the more rustic Nyack Rail Trail in Upper Westchester
County, NY.

All true, but note that Nyack is in Rockland County, cross the river, not
Westchester County

SB

Hmmmmm interesting, very interesting - UNBELIEVABLE actually.

Rail trails are very common in Victoria and have been for a long time.

1) 'Boring' is a problem with the imagination. Did you look for all the
sensational birds and other interesting things along the way - probably not,
you are a townie and have not spent enough time in tranquillity to learn
appreciation. Takes some adjustment.

2) Hmmm yes and no - you need a tad more experience riding in a group on
these trails.

3) Us locals think the surface is *great*. As to the delusions of a train
coming around the next bend - seek serious deep and meaningful therapy. If
this is what the large cities does to you, please god spare me ever going to
the big smoke again.

4) "Would suit casual recreational riders" I am *stunned* by your comment
and find it bizarre to the extreme. Absolute and total bull manure. What
is your major malfunction in life?

5) Absolutely correct. The numbers of people using these trails each week
is impressive. International tourists think they are absolutely *BLOODY
SENSATIONAL* and cannot praise them enough. I would estimate the
international tourism growth figures would be awesome. I have been riding
with some on different rail trails with international tourists that are now
back for their third visit.

6) 'Mass events' don't want them and were never ever intended for that
purpose

7) What the hell do you think the idea behind rail trails is - you really
are unbelievable and please stay in the city.
Did you not see a lot of families, couples, young and old along the track.
I think it is *BLOODY AWESOME* seeing the families, couples and elderly on
the track. It gladdens my heart to see people getting out and enjoying the
peace and tranquillity of the rail trails of all types and ages. *PLEASE*
don't come back - we don't need and want your type. Stay in the plastic
city you come from with your hyperactive personality disorder. You really
have a serious problem.

8) *PLEASE PLEASE* never come back. Stay in your plastic take away food
city. This is *NOT* what rail trails are about. The international tourists
would be disgusted and shocked at the things you have so far written.
Locals and international tourists and some Australians like to have a self
cooked leisurely breakfast, lunch or dinner. I cannot believe you - find a
new therapist as you have no idea of enjoyment, pleasure, nature,
friendship, tranquillity etc. etc. Eating on the trail is an experience not
a bloody take away food store - you are sick, really sick.

9) Why on earth would you use and share a road with cages and megalomaniac
boxes when you can use a rail trail with all the awesome benefits it
provides - you are absolutely incredible in the bizarreness of your
'reasoning'.

10) What the hell is your interpretation and reasoning against rail trails.
Rail trails are *substantially* preferential at any time to using any road
you need to share with cages and megalomaniac boxes. If you are not
surrounded by noise, flashing psychedelic neon signs, Game Boys and X Boxes
you are not happy. I would *love* to see a proper psychiatric and
personality profile of you.

11) Why would they have a greater application in an urban environment.
That is the problem you are a disgusting plastic sick mentally defected city
person - *PLEASE NEVER EVER RETURN TO USE RAIL TRAILS*

You are just incredible in your sick city demented views and city outlook.
I am not at all joking when I suggest you seek deep and meaningful
professional help for your problem. You obviously have *NO* idea how to
relax and enjoy yourself and live without a massive of crowd of people
around you pushing and shoving you every which way, and a McDonalds and
Kentucky Fried Rabbit on every corner.

The Wodonga to Cudgewa rail trail is started and progressing well, with a
*massive* support locally and internationally, and will be an amazing
journey for those capable of enjoying themselves in a non-plastic society
with no McDonalds or Kentucky Fried Beast on every bend. Cooking and
preparing your own food and leisurely taking your time eating and enjoying
it, while watching the incredible bird life in the North East of Victoria is
what it is all about. You obviously have zero appreciation for nature or
tranquillity.
I don't think you can have any idea what international tourists say and
think about these rail trails in Victoria. If you did, you would be ashamed
at what you have posted. If you do return, make sure it is after deep and
meaningful mental therapy and after you have learnt some appreciation for
planning and cooking your own meals, appreciation for peace and
tranquillity, learnt a love of the wild and bird life and trees, and
Australian history. Australian history is unbelievably interesting as you
can go and see it, discover it and re-live it. You made not one mention of
the wildlife or magnificent and various types of bushes and trees along the
way.

Do you have any appreciation for anything in nature and life?

please Please PLEASE stay in Sydney, N.S.W. the fifth rate everything do
nothing positive or meaningful state.
N.S.W. work on the principle that if you never ever do anything you can
never be accused of failing - just like that weak useless spineless blood
sucking do nothing Murray Darling Basin Commission.

--

"Andrew Price" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tried a rail trail for the first time while on holidays in Beechworth (NE
area of Victoria) and as they are not common here in Oz I thought I might
share the impressions having never tried one before.

Rode with three friends all of whom ride with a club in Sydney - all
basically roadies.

The trail is an ex country single line with the tracks and sleepers

replaced

Quoted message said:

with an aggregate bitumen mix - about 90kms of trail with a spur trail of
about 20km up to where we were staying - impressions / conclusions -

1. Feels odd, possibly because roads and railways are aligned way
differently. The uphills are a gentler grade but they can go on for a

longer

Quoted message said:

and almost boring duration than most road gradients.

2. Can't ride as a bunch as well on them - have to swap turns across the
front 2 riders in a double paceline - and have to single up a lot.

3. Not nearly as quick as the road, the aggregate surface didn't help but
the "odd" feeling persisted and tends to make your more cautious than you
would be than touring on a road - kept expecting a train around the next
bend !

4. Would suit casual recreational riders, esp those with a major aversion

to

Quoted message said:

sharing the roads with cars and trucks - numbers of bike hire places are
starting up in towns along the trail usually hiring mtb's for limited
jaunts.

5. The rail trail has, according to the locals, done some serious economic
good to the townships it goes through from tourism.

6. Doubt that they would accommodate a large number of riders in a mass
event (might be different if a two line rail trail)

7. Good for a single cyclist starting out wanting to do some distance but
also wishing to avoid cars etc whilst riding solo.

8. After about 70km wanted to and did go back to the road and stayed on

it -

Quoted message said:

and immediately felt better - could be force of habit but the road felt

way

Quoted message said:

nicer, faster and easier to access services like food and drink,

directions,

Quoted message said:

other things you tend to need occasionally when touring.

9. Very useful if they avoid a horror stretch of road you would rather not
be on for that patch.

10. but, doubt that they are a long term substitute for quiet country

roads.

Quoted message said:

11. Might perhaps have a greater application in an urban environment to
avoid/substitute for major roads where the other traffic is horrific.

Tried the trail for 2 days only so the impressions might change with more
use - I was sort of hoping that they might really provide a practical long
term separation between cars and cycles, but I have my doubts on a single
line conversion.

Would be interested if the experience varies in other places - best,
Andrew

"Mikita Corvana" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hmmmmm interesting, very interesting - UNBELIEVABLE actually.

Rail trails are very common in Victoria and have been for a long time.

1) 'Boring' is a problem with the imagination. Did you look for all the
sensational birds and other interesting things along the way - probably

not,

Quoted message said:

you are a townie and have not spent enough time in tranquillity to learn
appreciation. Takes some adjustment.

2) Hmmm yes and no - you need a tad more experience riding in a group on
these trails.

3) Us locals think the surface is *great*. As to the delusions of a train
coming around the next bend - seek serious deep and meaningful therapy.

If

Quoted message said:

this is what the large cities does to you, please god spare me ever going

to

Quoted message said:

the big smoke again.

4) "Would suit casual recreational riders" I am *stunned* by your comment
and find it bizarre to the extreme. Absolute and total bull manure. What
is your major malfunction in life?

5) Absolutely correct. The numbers of people using these trails each week
is impressive. International tourists think they are absolutely *BLOODY
SENSATIONAL* and cannot praise them enough. I would estimate the
international tourism growth figures would be awesome. I have been riding
with some on different rail trails with international tourists that are

now

Quoted message said:

back for their third visit.

6) 'Mass events' don't want them and were never ever intended for that
purpose

7) What the hell do you think the idea behind rail trails is - you really
are unbelievable and please stay in the city.
Did you not see a lot of families, couples, young and old along the track.
I think it is *BLOODY AWESOME* seeing the families, couples and elderly on
the track. It gladdens my heart to see people getting out and enjoying

the

Quoted message said:

peace and tranquillity of the rail trails of all types and ages. *PLEASE*
don't come back - we don't need and want your type. Stay in the plastic
city you come from with your hyperactive personality disorder. You really
have a serious problem.

8) *PLEASE PLEASE* never come back. Stay in your plastic take away food
city. This is *NOT* what rail trails are about. The international

tourists

Quoted message said:

would be disgusted and shocked at the things you have so far written.
Locals and international tourists and some Australians like to have a self
cooked leisurely breakfast, lunch or dinner. I cannot believe you - find

a

Quoted message said:

new therapist as you have no idea of enjoyment, pleasure, nature,
friendship, tranquillity etc. etc. Eating on the trail is an experience

not

Quoted message said:

a bloody take away food store - you are sick, really sick.

9) Why on earth would you use and share a road with cages and megalomaniac
boxes when you can use a rail trail with all the awesome benefits it
provides - you are absolutely incredible in the bizarreness of your
'reasoning'.

10) What the hell is your interpretation and reasoning against rail

trails.

Quoted message said:

Rail trails are *substantially* preferential at any time to using any road
you need to share with cages and megalomaniac boxes. If you are not
surrounded by noise, flashing psychedelic neon signs, Game Boys and X

Boxes

Quoted message said:

you are not happy. I would *love* to see a proper psychiatric and
personality profile of you.

11) Why would they have a greater application in an urban environment.
That is the problem you are a disgusting plastic sick mentally defected

city

Quoted message said:

person - *PLEASE NEVER EVER RETURN TO USE RAIL TRAILS*

You are just incredible in your sick city demented views and city outlook.
I am not at all joking when I suggest you seek deep and meaningful
professional help for your problem. You obviously have *NO* idea how to
relax and enjoy yourself and live without a massive of crowd of people
around you pushing and shoving you every which way, and a McDonalds and
Kentucky Fried Rabbit on every corner.

The Wodonga to Cudgewa rail trail is started and progressing well, with a
*massive* support locally and internationally, and will be an amazing
journey for those capable of enjoying themselves in a non-plastic society
with no McDonalds or Kentucky Fried Beast on every bend. Cooking and
preparing your own food and leisurely taking your time eating and enjoying
it, while watching the incredible bird life in the North East of Victoria

is

Quoted message said:

what it is all about. You obviously have zero appreciation for nature or
tranquillity.
I don't think you can have any idea what international tourists say and
think about these rail trails in Victoria. If you did, you would be

ashamed

Quoted message said:

at what you have posted. If you do return, make sure it is after deep and
meaningful mental therapy and after you have learnt some appreciation for
planning and cooking your own meals, appreciation for peace and
tranquillity, learnt a love of the wild and bird life and trees, and
Australian history. Australian history is unbelievably interesting as you
can go and see it, discover it and re-live it. You made not one mention

of

Quoted message said:

the wildlife or magnificent and various types of bushes and trees along

the

Quoted message said:

way.

Do you have any appreciation for anything in nature and life?

please Please PLEASE stay in Sydney, N.S.W. the fifth rate everything do
nothing positive or meaningful state.
N.S.W. work on the principle that if you never ever do anything you can
never be accused of failing - just like that weak useless spineless blood
sucking do nothing Murray Darling Basin Commission.

hmm catch you at a bad time Mikita? I like your comment:
"The international tourists would be disgusted and shocked at the things
you have so far written"
I think your comments have just made it worse... I wonder if all locals are
like you?Why do you hate city people so much? No all people are like your
ex-partner

"Mikita Corvana" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hmmmmm interesting, very interesting - UNBELIEVABLE actually.

Rail trails are very common in Victoria and have been for a long time.

1) 'Boring' is a problem with the imagination. Did you look for all the
sensational birds and other interesting things along the way - probably

not,

Quoted message said:

you are a townie and....

<snip further stereotyping and abuse>

Quoted message said:

I am not at all joking when I suggest you seek deep and meaningful
professional help for your problem.

Is this what you used? Maybe you need to ask for your money back.

It is sad to see someone getting so wound up over a few reasonable, albeit
opinionated comments about our humble old rail trails. They do make for very
pleasant cycling, and some cover quite a distance, but no, they do not
replace the good old country roads which can be very quiet, safe and scenic
if you choose carefully. Above all else, ride your bike.

Cheers
Peter

We have some pretty decent rail trails around Toronto, and I use them
extensively to do distance riding. On a good day, I'll manage between
120-200km of riding, all on the rail trail, albeit not at any great speed (I
only average about 25kmh on the rail trails.)

Though I am contemplating getting a road bike next year, as we have some
decent back roads where I live and a very active road bike club, the rail
trails will still offer me some of what road biking cannot: tranquility.
About the only concern I have out on the rail trails is a darting chipmunk,
rabbit, or occasional deer. No cars, no motors, no exhaust fumes, no blaring
radios, etc. It is very peaceful(weekday riding, weekend riding the trails
can be busy).

This time of year here, with the leaves changing colour, and most people at
work, the rail trails provide a sensation of being out in the wilderness all
by myself, and that is priceless for this city boy.

"Andrew Price" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tried a rail trail for the first time while on holidays in Beechworth (NE
area of Victoria) and as they are not common here in Oz I thought I might
share the impressions having never tried one before.

Rode with three friends all of whom ride with a club in Sydney - all
basically roadies.

The trail is an ex country single line with the tracks and sleepers

replaced

Quoted message said:

with an aggregate bitumen mix - about 90kms of trail with a spur trail of
about 20km up to where we were staying - impressions / conclusions -

1. Feels odd, possibly because roads and railways are aligned way
differently. The uphills are a gentler grade but they can go on for a

longer

Quoted message said:

and almost boring duration than most road gradients.

2. Can't ride as a bunch as well on them - have to swap turns across the
front 2 riders in a double paceline - and have to single up a lot.

3. Not nearly as quick as the road, the aggregate surface didn't help but
the "odd" feeling persisted and tends to make your more cautious than you
would be than touring on a road - kept expecting a train around the next
bend !

4. Would suit casual recreational riders, esp those with a major aversion

to

Quoted message said:

sharing the roads with cars and trucks - numbers of bike hire places are
starting up in towns along the trail usually hiring mtb's for limited
jaunts.

5. The rail trail has, according to the locals, done some serious economic
good to the townships it goes through from tourism.

6. Doubt that they would accommodate a large number of riders in a mass
event (might be different if a two line rail trail)

7. Good for a single cyclist starting out wanting to do some distance but
also wishing to avoid cars etc whilst riding solo.

8. After about 70km wanted to and did go back to the road and stayed on

it -

Quoted message said:

and immediately felt better - could be force of habit but the road felt

way

Quoted message said:

nicer, faster and easier to access services like food and drink,

directions,

Quoted message said:

other things you tend to need occasionally when touring.

9. Very useful if they avoid a horror stretch of road you would rather not
be on for that patch.

10. but, doubt that they are a long term substitute for quiet country

roads.

Quoted message said:

11. Might perhaps have a greater application in an urban environment to
avoid/substitute for major roads where the other traffic is horrific.

Tried the trail for 2 days only so the impressions might change with more
use - I was sort of hoping that they might really provide a practical long
term separation between cars and cycles, but I have my doubts on a single
line conversion.

Would be interested if the experience varies in other places - best,
Andrew

Ian said:

We have some pretty decent rail trails around Toronto, and I use them
extensively to do distance riding. On a good day, I'll manage between
120-200km of riding, all on the rail trail, albeit not at any great speed
(I
only average about 25kmh on the rail trails.)

Though I am contemplating getting a road bike next year, as we have some
decent back roads where I live and a very active road bike club, the rail
trails will still offer me some of what road biking cannot: tranquility.
About the only concern I have out on the rail trails is a darting
chipmunk,
rabbit, or occasional deer. No cars, no motors, no exhaust fumes, no
blaring
radios, etc. It is very peaceful(weekday riding, weekend riding the
trails
can be busy).

This time of year here, with the leaves changing colour, and most people
at
work, the rail trails provide a sensation of being out in the wilderness
all
by myself, and that is priceless for this city boy.

What would they be like for ice/snow biking?

--
Bob M in CT
Remove 'x.' to reply

Hi Andrew,
I've ridden on the Hamilton-Brantford rail trail (in southern Ontario,
Canada) which is 32 km long. Most of the riders on it were
recreational and I barely saw anyone in the middle of the ride. (most
people were riding at the ends and turning around) When I rode on the
trail I had already ridden 90 km on the road to get to the trail and
so the switch to the pea gravel was not so much fun. I was riding a
rigid mtb with slick wide tires and it was somewhat of a rough ride.

The scenery was somewhat repetitive and boring after a while. I also
expected it to have been more shaded by the surrounding trees but it
was actually quite warm and sunny. The uphill was very gradual and I
did not notice I was actually going uphill until about 12 km in I
started being able to go much faster with much less effort. 🙂

Overall it was a pleasant ride and nice to be able to go between two
cities avoiding traffic (although there were somewhat frequent
crossings) but I think if I were doing the same route again I would
try to plot out some relatively quiet roads instead.

Tanya

"Andrew Price" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Tried a rail trail for the first time while on holidays in Beechworth (NE
area of Victoria) and as they are not common here in Oz I thought I might
share the impressions having never tried one before.

Rode with three friends all of whom ride with a club in Sydney - all
basically roadies.

The trail is an ex country single line with the tracks and sleepers replaced
with an aggregate bitumen mix - about 90kms of trail with a spur trail of
about 20km up to where we were staying - impressions / conclusions -

1. Feels odd, possibly because roads and railways are aligned way
differently. The uphills are a gentler grade but they can go on for a longer
and almost boring duration than most road gradients.

2. Can't ride as a bunch as well on them - have to swap turns across the
front 2 riders in a double paceline - and have to single up a lot.

3. Not nearly as quick as the road, the aggregate surface didn't help but
the "odd" feeling persisted and tends to make your more cautious than you
would be than touring on a road - kept expecting a train around the next
bend !

4. Would suit casual recreational riders, esp those with a major aversion to
sharing the roads with cars and trucks - numbers of bike hire places are
starting up in towns along the trail usually hiring mtb's for limited
jaunts.

5. The rail trail has, according to the locals, done some serious economic
good to the townships it goes through from tourism.

6. Doubt that they would accommodate a large number of riders in a mass
event (might be different if a two line rail trail)

7. Good for a single cyclist starting out wanting to do some distance but
also wishing to avoid cars etc whilst riding solo.

8. After about 70km wanted to and did go back to the road and stayed on it -
and immediately felt better - could be force of habit but the road felt way
nicer, faster and easier to access services like food and drink, directions,
other things you tend to need occasionally when touring.

9. Very useful if they avoid a horror stretch of road you would rather not
be on for that patch.

10. but, doubt that they are a long term substitute for quiet country roads.

11. Might perhaps have a greater application in an urban environment to
avoid/substitute for major roads where the other traffic is horrific.

Tried the trail for 2 days only so the impressions might change with more
use - I was sort of hoping that they might really provide a practical long
term separation between cars and cycles, but I have my doubts on a single
line conversion.

Would be interested if the experience varies in other places - best,
Andrew

"Peter Signorini" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Mikita Corvana" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have ridden some rail to trails here in the US. I think its all in
what you are into, when going on a biking trip. I found them nice
because I'm a nature nut. The rail routes seemed to go through areas
where even roads didnt. So I found this very nice, the wildlife,
scenery etc. Sometimes rural roads can get boring to me. Urban sprawl
etc. In afew areas it seemed to add a tourist aspect to some small
towns that didnt seem to be there before. With that said, they are
built more for the recreational rider, so it isnt always a a good
option for someone who wants to commute, in that case the roads are
better. But I do think its a good way to push bicycling and outdoor
exercise, which to me is good thing.

Andrew Price said:

Tried a rail trail for the first time while on holidays in Beechworth (NE
area of Victoria) and as they are not common here in Oz I thought I might
share the impressions having never tried one before. ...

The trail is an ex country single line with the tracks and sleepers replaced
with an aggregate bitumen mix - about 90kms of trail with a spur trail of
about 20km up to where we were staying - impressions / conclusions -

1. [Shallower grades].

It is both an advantage and a problem. It definitely is faster to ride
an entire day on grades that are less than 2%; however, this feature
sometimes mean the railroad has been routed in a way that is less
scenic.

Quoted message said:

2. Can't ride as a bunch as well on them ...

Rail trails and bike trails in general are 2-lane bicycle roads. As
such, the cyclists' behaviour needs to be similar to that of car
drivers on a 2-lane highway. In other words, one passes and one gets
back in line. Highways may sometimes be negociated as a double
paceline, but that's at the expense of other users of the road. You
won't hear about tourers touring side by side, unless they ride on an
isolated road and can watch their behind very closely.

Quoted message said:

3. Not nearly as quick as the road, the aggregate surface didn't help but
the "odd" feeling persisted and tends to make your more cautious than you
would be than touring on a road.

Dry well-compacted aggregates are almost as good as asphalt, but
riding on a rainy soil is quite different and some trails are rather
soft. I have used some trail sections as alternates and avoided others
for precisely that reason. But even hard aggregate is noisier than
asphalt, which makes it a bit harder to approach wildlife. On the
other hand, paved trails could be done, but they would require _very_
good foundations, otherwise they wouldn't last in Canadian weather.

Quoted message said:

....
9. Very useful if they avoid a horror stretch of road you would rather not
be on for that patch.

10. but, doubt that they are a long term substitute for quiet country roads.

....especially that building a full network is unrealistic.

I have used a few so far; all in Québec (Canada). Each one has a few
features that make it interesting.

1. Le petit train du Nord:
The railroad was built long before the highways and it uses the most
scenic spots. It also was a low-speed railroad, which means it curves
a lot. Gentle curves, still, but definitely not boring.

Mont-Laurier is also a nice place to visit, but doing a return trip
via the highway once and the trail once is the only way to avoid
backtracking. And hills on the highway are something.

2. La piste Jacques-Cartier - Portneuf
The Trail is OK, but most importantly the highway has quite a few
killer hills. I got 19 km/h on that trail this Summer (loaded touring
while towing a trailercycle) and I doubt I could have got over 17-18
km/h on the highway.

3. the trail between Lévis and Victoriaville
The trail is totally straight and boring. Its main advantages were 15
km less than highway 116 which is not exactly scenic anyway, and more
shelter from a strong headwind.

"Michel Gagnon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Andrew Price" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2. Can't ride as a bunch as well on them ...

Quoted message said:

Rail trails and bike trails in general are 2-lane bicycle roads. As
such, the cyclists' behaviour needs to be similar to that of car
drivers on a 2-lane highway. In other words, one passes and one gets
back in line. Highways may sometimes be negociated as a double
paceline, but that's at the expense of other users of the road. You
won't hear about tourers touring side by side, unless they ride on an
isolated road and can watch their behind very closely.

This is true, but depending on traffic it can be quite safe to ride side by side
on rail trails. Because the grades and turns are so gradual, you can see for
hundreds of yards down the trail -- so it's easy to see if someone's coming.

One of the neat things about rail trails is that they foster social rides, where
everyone can hang together and talk.

Matt O.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Andrew Price" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2. Can't ride as a bunch as well on them ...

"Michel Gagnon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Rail trails and bike trails in general are 2-lane bicycle roads. As
such, the cyclists' behaviour needs to be similar to that of car
drivers on a 2-lane highway....

"Matt O'Toole" replied:

Quoted message said:

This is true, but depending on traffic it can be quite safe to ride side

by side

Quoted message said:

on rail trails. Because the grades and turns are so gradual, you can see

for

Quoted message said:

hundreds of yards down the trail -- so it's easy to see if someone's

coming.

Quoted message said:

One of the neat things about rail trails is that they foster social rides,

where

Quoted message said:

everyone can hang together and talk.

Michel Gagnon then added:

True. Riding side by side is generally impossible for urban or quasi-urban
trails (in Montréal anyway), but on rural trails, traffic dwindles very
rapidly outside towns. But except in most remote areas, I don't see a
problem riding socially side by side, but it would be problematic to ride in
a competitive paceline on a trail... which is, I think, what the original
poster wanted to do.

Regards,

Michel

"Andrew Price" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Thanks Andrew, fair comments, just depends on why you want to use a rail
trail. For many it will be the experience in itself, not just avoiding wild
redneck drivers on country roads or horrendous hills (yes South Island NZ
style....)

For some another rail trail might have a look at the Otago Central Rail
Trail from Middlemarch to Clyde in New Zealand

Official Site
http://www.otagocentralrailtrail.co.nz/

http://www.otagorailtrail.co.nz/
http://www.railtrail.co.nz/

Quoted message said:

The trail is an ex country single line with the tracks and sleepers

replaced

Quoted message said:

with an aggregate bitumen mix - about 90kms of trail with a spur trail of
about 20km up to where we were staying - impressions / conclusions -

Bitumen!... luxury - I had always considered railtrails to be shingle
(dolomite etc) essentially had packed ground stones. Just the rail line
with the with rails, sleepers and large stones removed

Quoted message said:

1. Feels odd, possibly because roads and railways are aligned way
differently. The uphills are a gentler grade but they can go on for a

longer

Quoted message said:

and almost boring duration than most road gradients.

Boring? - have you considered that maybe enjoying the scenery or the
conversation with fellow riders...
Good for some beginners or in my case my wife would not have joined me on
the roads in NZ. The rail trail was a great way to get her involved.
Tunnels, viaducts, crossings. Scenic view of snow capped mountains. Boring
not!!

Quoted message said:

2. Can't ride as a bunch as well on them - have to swap turns across the
front 2 riders in a double paceline - and have to single up a lot.

Last thing I would expect to see on a railtrail

Quoted message said:

3. Not nearly as quick as the road, the aggregate surface didn't help but
the "odd" feeling persisted and tends to make your more cautious than you
would be than touring on a road - kept expecting a train around the next
bend !

Hmm might counter with the nervous feeling that every approaching vehicle
will run you off the pacific highway

Quoted message said:

4. Would suit casual recreational riders, esp those with a major aversion

to

Quoted message said:

sharing the roads with cars and trucks - numbers of bike hire places are
starting up in towns along the trail usually hiring mtb's for limited
jaunts.

Even a family affair.
http://www.cityofdunedin.com/city/?page=feat_rail_trail

Quoted message said:

5. The rail trail has, according to the locals, done some serious economic
good to the townships it goes through from tourism.

Good accommodation, car storage, transport and collect services
most importantly good pubs at breaks in the trail.

Quoted message said:

6. Doubt that they would accommodate a large number of riders in a mass
event (might be different if a two line rail trail)

There are events in NZ that utilise the railtrails.

AOK Rally
http://www.otago-tourism.co.nz/otago/aok/route.html

or on the rail trail site
Challenge Duathlon
Saturday 28 and Sunday 29 February 2004
150 kms Clyde Railhead to Middlemarch
Day 1 : 90 kms Clyde Railhead to Ranfurly
Day 2 : 60kms Ranfurly to Middlemarch

or
http://www.goldrush.co.nz/
(multisport with running along trails)

Quoted message said:

7. Good for a single cyclist starting out wanting to do some distance but
also wishing to avoid cars etc whilst riding solo.

Yes, but can remove reference to single solo.

Quoted message said:

8. After about 70km wanted to and did go back to the road and stayed on

it -

Quoted message said:

and immediately felt better - could be force of habit but the road felt

way

Quoted message said:

nicer, faster and easier to access services like food and drink,

directions,

Quoted message said:

other things you tend to need occasionally when touring.

All depends what you are looking for -
Was fast a key criteria. Alot of people enjoy the rail trails as they are
not pushed along by traffic...

Quoted message said:

9. Very useful if they avoid a horror stretch of road you would rather not
be on for that patch.

agree

Quoted message said:

10. but, doubt that they are a long term substitute for quiet country

roads.
Not a substitute but an alternative.

Quoted message said:

11. Might perhaps have a greater application in an urban environment to
avoid/substitute for major roads where the other traffic is horrific.

Quoted message said:

Tried the trail for 2 days only so the impressions might change with more
use - I was sort of hoping that they might really provide a practical long
term separation between cars and cycles, but I have my doubts on a single
line conversion.

Quoted message said:

Would be interested if the experience varies in other places - best,
Andrew

Thoroughly enjoyed and would welcome comments from others having tried the
trail.

I took a Saturday in the first week of October to do the Bright ->
Wangaratta rail trail. Turned back 20kms from [censored] for a total of
about 137 kms.

The Pros:

Fresh air - plenty of it...breathe in the aroma of flowers, trees
and cow manure as opposed to the exhaust fumes of trucks and cars
in the city.

View - Win XP desktop country...serious!

Traffic - Hardly any.

The Cons:

View - Win XP desktop looks the same after 100kms.

Surface - It's hard on the bottom with slick tyres. At the 80km mark I
was uncomfortable, by 100 kms it was hurting, by 120kms I was in agony
and 8 hours...I did ATB yesterday and things only got uncomfortable at
the 150kms mark because most of the roads are so smooth. Almost 10 hours
and no sweat. Also - you DO go slower.

Flies - Swallowed 7 -> If you don't count the 1st one I spat out.
Figured it was easier just to swallow and then swig down some water.
Also - keep your sunnies on as long as you can. I copped a fly in the
eye at dusk on the trip home and spent 5 mins blinking and washing out
my eye. It finally came out...in 2 bits.

--

Quoted message said:

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