Rack and panniers.

Tracker 1972 said:

Has anybody got any recommendations as to a rack/pannier combination so I can have an even load
left and right, easy to take the lot off and easy to carry once they are off? Preferably as a
single bag, don't want to be struggling with two straps/bags.

Contrary to what you might think, carrying one pannier doesn't unbalance a bike. So just carry
one pannier.

Quoted message said:

I kind of envisage lifting the two panniers and them falling or even clipping together to make
them more managable with a single strap. I will need to fit in upto an A4 lever arch file.

My old Karrimor panniers did this - one strap bucking together over the top of a rack.

If you can afford it, I guess a briefcase pannier is what you want. Maybe look at the Altura ones.

I've got ordinary panniers, Altura Orkneys which have a shoulder strap. But at 90 quid a pair I
guess they are beyond a students pocket...

Or why not be hip and get a courier bag? Slings over one shoulder, looks good.

Tracker 1972 said:

Has anybody got any recommendations as to a rack/pannier combination so=

=20

Quoted message said:

I can have an even load left and right, easy to take the lot off and=20 easy to carry once they
are off? Preferably as a single bag, don't want=

=20

Quoted message said:

to be struggling with two straps/bags.

For the rack, just about anything. Bor Yueh ones are good value but=20 hardly the only game in town.
You can buy high spec ones for touring=20 for =A3=A3=A3s, but not really worth it on a commute.
Steel are generall= y=20 stronger than alloy, but also heavier. For panniers, cheap 'n cheerful from
Argos/Lidl etc with an "all in one" =

design are actually pretty good, and very good value. For something a=20 bit nicer EBC's own brand,
sold singly, are pretty good and still fairly =

cheap. Unless you're carrying serious weight then it's no problem just=20 using a single pannier on
one side IME, really doesn't affect the=20 handling noticibly at all with a typical day's
stationery.

Quite a few bags will take a shoulder strap, or have one supplied in any =

case. Examples are Altura and Ortlieb, but they ain't cheap! Carrying=20 two panniers in one hand is
usually easy enough if you're not carrying a =

lot of weight, but I usually just use one bag when that will take the=20 requisite bulk.

Pete. --=20 Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics,
Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>,

Peter Clinch said:

Unless you're carrying serious weight then it's no problem just using a single pannier on one side
IME, really doesn't affect the handling noticibly at all with a typical day's stationery.

On a particularly heavy day I weighed my rucksac, just over 1 stone including all the books etc. I
was bringing back from the Learning Centre (library in Sheffield Hallam speak) and I want to add
change of clothing, shower kit to this. Not often but I would like to be able to have both, the
heavier the load the more I would like a shower! Liked the look of the Ortlieb ones at Wiggle (front
roller classic I think) but they didn't seem to be big enough for a leaver arch file. Will have a
look at EBC kit though.

Thanks,

Tracker.

--
mmmmmmmm, tasty.

Tracker 1972 said:

On a particularly heavy day I weighed my rucksac, just over 1 stone including all the books etc. I
was bringing back from the Learning Centre (library in Sheffield Hallam speak) and I want to add
change of

Try wrapping your A4 file in a couple of plastic bags. Use sail ties or bungees to strap to the top
of the rack. Use a cheap pannier or courier bag for the clothes.

BTW, are there no lockers anywhere for your shower kit? Guess you can't get a permanent locker
anywhere, which is a bit sad.

In message <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

The front roller is designed for a front lowrider rack, and these are a bit smaller (they'll fit on
a rear rack, but just won't carry that much). If you've got a big file you'd want the 20l rear
ones, I think. Ortlieb panniers are pretty much as good as you can find on the planet: superbly
built, completely waterproof and far and away the best attachment systems I've seen on anything.
Downsides are (a) they're not cheap and (b) they don't have pockets as standard for
compartmentalising (some bike tools, pens/pencils, etc.). You can add pockets to them, but that's
more expense again and it's not as neatly done as a pannier with them built in as standard (I use
Altura Orkneys for when I want pockets and Ortliebs when I just want to carry *stuff*).

Also if you want to make them easy to carry, Ortleib do a backpack clip on thing to turn a single
rear pannier into a backpack. Works quite well, and is about 20UKP IIRC.

--
Thomas Letherby Remove NOSPAM to reply.

Wow, overwhelming response, I guess I kind of forgot that I could just bungie anything too big to
the top of the now wider rack (due to the panniers). On the cost front the student thing may have
been misleading, 31 and married I think makes me a mature student with some savings and a wife in
full time employment. Time to spare and not completley broke :-) So cost is still a consideration
but "little more expensive and is just right and lasts" may strech the budget a little. No more than
£100 all up though or I will have to do some real explaining and it had beter do everything I want
or "she" will not be the happiest bunny in town!

On a related note do the racks with a "buit in" mudguard (well solid bit in the middle) stop you
getting a brown stripe up your back or will I need to add a mudguard as teh one I have fastens to
the seatpost?

Thanks again,

Tracker.

--
mmmmmmmm, tasty.

Tracker 1972 said:

On a particularly heavy day I weighed my rucksac, just over 1 stone including all the books etc. I
was bringing back from the Learning Centre (library in Sheffield Hallam speak) and I want to add
change of clothing, shower kit to this. Not often but I would like to be able to have both, the
heavier the load the more I would like a shower!

Still probably okay: IME if it'll go in a 20l pannier (biggish) unless it's metal ingots or the
like it's okay to ride with. Get a pair of 20s and most of the time you can just use 1, if it does
feel a bit like you'll keel over split to 2 when you need it. You can also bungee overspill to the
top of the rack.

Quoted message said:

the look of the Ortlieb ones at Wiggle (front roller classic I think) but they didn't seem to be
big enough for a leaver arch file.

The front roller is designed for a front lowrider rack, and these are a bit smaller (they'll fit on
a rear rack, but just won't carry that much). If you've got a big file you'd want the 20l rear ones,
I think. Ortlieb panniers are pretty much as good as you can find on the planet: superbly built,
completely waterproof and far and away the best attachment systems I've seen on anything. Downsides
are (a) they're not cheap and (b) they don't have pockets as standard for compartmentalising (some
bike tools, pens/pencils, etc.). You can add pockets to them, but that's more expense again and it's
not as neatly done as a pannier with them built in as standard (I use Altura Orkneys for when I want
pockets and Ortliebs when I just want to carry *stuff*).

Quoted message said:

Will have a look at EBC kit though.

As well as the Symmetrical Pannier I noted first time out, they have some Karrimor ones on special
offer at the moment (the EH20s). They also sell Ortlieb stuff and Altura too. My other pannier
experience is with Carradice and that's been positive too: I had their basic model for years and
they're still going strong on a friend's bike (my current bike has oversized tubing racks and they
didn't fit, but that would be very unlikely to be a problem with any sort of standard rack).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Tracker 1972 said:

On a related note do the racks with a "buit in" mudguard (well solid bi=

t=20

Quoted message said:

in the middle) stop you getting a brown stripe up your back=20

To an extent...[1]

Quoted message said:

or will I need to add a mudguard as teh one I have fastens to the seatp=

ost?

That wouldn't be a bad idea in any case IMHO: seatpost mount 'guards are =

okay at stopping the worst of flying clods of mud if you're really=20 hammering through serious
goop, but a close fitting mudguard, preferably =

with mudflap, will make quite a difference to comfort and/or laundry=20 demands on wet roads. SKS
are the Canine's Cobblers but others will do a fine job too (think=20 my old tourer sported Zefals
which were okay). If the =A3100 budget=20 includes the guards I'd be inclined to get SKS guards at
=A320 the pair=20 and cut back slightly from the Ortliebs on the pannier front. Not that=20 they
aren't great, but there are plenty of "merely" very good=20 alternatives that will last much longer
than a pair of cheap mudguards.

Or get the Ortliebs anyway and work out some "rational explanations" for =

the breadwinner...

Pete.

[1] i.e., not really --=20 Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical
Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net
[email hidden] dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

"Tracker 1972" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Has anybody got any recommendations as to a rack/pannier combination

I strongly recommend a dogleg rack (with the rear stays bent back in a dogleg) as this keeps
panniers more stable than the cheaper straight-leg racks.

Your LBS will probably have Bor Yueh and the like, which are acceptable, but the ones with a cast
rear lamp bracket (rather than a plate) are worth the extra, as the plates can (IME /do/ and with
monotonous regularity) fatugue and break.

Quoted message said:

I can have an even load left and right

Not an issue, as other have said, but try it and you'll find that out for yourself.

Quoted message said:

easy to carry once they are off? Preferably as a single bag, don't want to be struggling with two
straps/bags.

You can find, if you look, panniers which hook onto a sort of backpack harness thingy. Heartily
recommended, if a briefcase pannier won't work. Alternatively, a good-size rack pack might do the
job (bt probably not if carrying much stuff).

Panniers? Well, now I'm rich and famous I would be unlikely to buy anything other than Ortlieb for
daily use, because things in Ortlieb panniers stay dry. If Ortlieb is too much money for you (don't
be ashamed, plenty of non-students gulp at the price) then buy the cheapest decent looking ones your
LBS stocks, and use poly bags. If necessary treat them with fabric waterproofer form your nearest
camping store.

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗

Tracker 1972 said:

Wow, overwhelming response, I guess I kind of forgot that I could just bungie anything too big to
the top of the now wider rack (due to the panniers). On the cost front the student thing may have
been misleading, 31 and married I think makes me a mature student with some savings and a wife in
full time employment. Time to spare and not completley broke :-) So cost is still a consideration
but "little more expensive and is just right and lasts" may strech the budget a little. No more
than £100 all up though or I will have to do some real explaining and it had beter do everything I
want or "she" will not be the happiest bunny in town!

On a related note do the racks with a "buit in" mudguard (well solid bit in the middle) stop you
getting a brown stripe up your back or will I need to add a mudguard as teh one I have fastens to
the seatpost?

You know, thinking about it, in four years as a student and another four as a research fellow I very
rarely had more than a bar bag on my bike. Certainly never had a rack, let alone a pannier, and
certainly didn't ever wear a rucksack on a bike (and very rarely used a bus or got a lift). And that
was mostly commuting a twenty mile round trip. I don't like excess luggage on the bike, and having
space to put things merely gives you an excuse to put things in it.

Mind you, I did have a locker (and later on, an office) on campus which I used, and I did have a
BikeHod trailer which I used when I was going off doing fieldwork, and also used when I was going in
to use the launderette on campus.

But if you're carrying too much the trick is to organise yourself a bit better.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

Due to financial constraints, the light at the end of the tunnel has been switched off.

Following on from Tracker 1972's message. . .

One of the best buys ever - clip on panniers.

* A RH pannier will often get in the way of a light and need some fiddling.

* One pannier doesn't make the bike tilt like a boat

* For a tenner, have you thought of one of those clever two part shopping baskets that fit to the
front handlebars with a pull out wire basket? Might be ideal for books etc. You simply hook them
over and that's it!

--
PETER FOX Not the same since the deckchair business folded
[email hidden] www.eminent.demon.co.uk/wcc.htm Witham Cycling
Campaign www.eminent.demon.co.uk/rides East Anglian Pub cycle rides

Just zis Guy said:

If Ortlieb is too much money for you (don't be ashamed, plenty of non-students gulp at the price)
then buy the cheapest decent looking ones your LBS stocks, and use poly bags. If necessary treat
them with fabric waterproofer form your nearest camping store.

Ortliebs aren't the only waterproofs you can buy: Karrimor EH20s (currently on offer at EBC) and Vau
De make similar sealed seam designs, and Carradice Super Cs in cotton duck are waterproof too, and
superbly built (not really cheaper than Ortliebs though!).

Also note that any good panniers are waterproof *material* but only leak through the seams, and not
very much. A carrier bag would be quite enough to keep stuff dry in transit, and is a handy thing to
leave over your saddle if it's sheeting it down. My Altura Orkneys came with rain covers, but I've
never used them, and nothing inside has ever got wet yet (without carrier bags). My old Carradice
Overlanders (their vanilla model at the time, late 80s) were another "non-waterproof" pannier and
only ever let in tiny amounts of water over years of commuting and general use.

Ortliebs with the roll-top seal are waterproof to the point where you can actually submerge them in
a pool and they'll stay dry. Mine double as extra dry bags in a canoe, but that's probably more than
most people really need on a bike! (I note they now do buckle-down models too). But don't think I'm
trying to put you off them: my main cargo panniers are Ortlieb rear roller Plus, and no regrets.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ortliebs aren't the only waterproofs you can buy: Karrimor EH20s (currently on offer at EBC) and
Vau De make similar sealed seam designs, and Carradice Super Cs in cotton duck are waterproof too,
and superbly built (not really cheaper than Ortliebs though!).

My Alturas kept things virtually completely dry in monsoon conditions (literally) with only their
rain covers on. The really sensitive stuff that had to stay dry was also wrapped in a plastic bag.

The covers had the added advantage that the black bags were suddenly covered with very bright yellow
stuff which seemed visible from the moon.

T

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

Quoted message said:

Ortliebs aren't the only waterproofs you can buy: Karrimor EH20s (currently on offer at EBC) and
Vau De make similar sealed seam designs, and Carradice Super Cs in cotton duck are waterproof too,
and superbly built (not really cheaper than Ortliebs though!).

True enough - I just don't want to go through the expense and pain of finding which ones genuinely
are waterproof and which not, when I know the Ortlieb rolltop is as good as you can get.

I have an Ortlieb Bike-Box rack pack, with the same roll closure, with a QR frame mounted on each of
the bikes I use for commuting. Nothing inside has ever got even slightly damp. To be a practical bag
for daily use, that seems to be a good test.

When I used to do walking expeditions I had a "waterproof" (Karrimor Jaguar S65 in KS100E fabric)
rucksack. Everything inside was also in at least two layers of poly bags. Most of it still managed
to get wet thanks to the quantum tunelling properties of Welsh rain: ever since then I've been
rather dogmatic about waterproofness. There's waterproof (Ortlieb and Vau De rolltops), and there's
water resistant. For me, water resistant doesn't cut
it. A damp shirt is of no use to me when I get to the office. Like I say, it's dogma thing, and I
can afford Ortlieb.

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗

Tony W said:

My Alturas kept things virtually completely dry in monsoon conditions (literally) with only their
rain covers on.

Mine are good enough as they are that I've never bothered with the rain covers. I can see why you'd
make an Honourable Exception for a monsoon and put them on, but in typical use they just make
getting at the contents harder!

Top Tip if you get Orkneys: sew a length of nylon tape around the carrying cord and they are *much*
more comfortable to carry in your hand with any sort of weight in (this is the handle between the
rack clips, not the shoulder strap they now include). I used climbing sling tape from the local
outdoor shop and sewed two lengths back-to-back around the cord.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

When I used to do walking expeditions I had a "waterproof" (Karrimor Jaguar S65 in KS100E fabric)
rucksack.

A friend of mine tells me this Karrimor stuff is only waterproof from the inside and comes with the
'Karrimor Life Sentence' ;-)

A polybag hoarder...

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden] Edgware.

Just zis Guy said:

When I used to do walking expeditions I had a "waterproof" (Karrimor Jaguar S65 in KS100E fabric)
rucksack.

Nobody ever claimed the Jagular was waterproof, or at least nobody sanctioned by Karrimor... KS100E
had a PU coating but that doesn't seal the seams, which is where most rucksacks and panniers leak.

Water "resistant" fabrics are No Use At All in serious rain, granted, but panniers that aren't
formally waterproof but are still well put together don't have this problem because the fabric
itself won't soak through. You can't beat Ortliebs for waterproofing, but OTOH you can't beat a Brox
for load carrying and that doesn't mean anyone carrying anything needs a Brox!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You can't beat Ortliebs for waterproofing, but OTOH you can't beat a Brox for load carrying and
that doesn't mean anyone carrying anything needs a Brox!

Is that "need" in a persuade-the-wife sense or "need" in the cyclist-need-another-bike sense?

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗

Just zis Guy said:

Is that "need" in a persuade-the-wife sense or "need" in the cyclist-need-another-bike sense?

Oddly enough, neither! It really is possible to over-buy. Though I own a set of Ortliebs and use
them by preference when I'm Moving Stuff from A to B, I actually use the Alturas on a greater number
of trips because the pockets make them rather more user friendly if anything beyond plain cargo is
involved. In the case of our OP carting stuff around Uni for the day off the bike, having a
selection of easy access zip pockets to hand may well be a Big Win (my spares and tools live in the
outside pocket of one of the Orkneys, wallet usually goes in the top, map in the top mesh pocket,
drink and snacks in the back pocket), hence my suggestion of various possibilities other than the
Ortliebs. If you want a single compartment bag I agree you can't do better, but there are times when
that's not the best configuration.

Of course, I cheat and have a pair of each. You can't have too much luggage either (though I've
cheated there too and ordered an 8 Freight with a built in bag of about large wheelbarrow
dimensions).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗