Racing versus Training - Balance?

Sounds like you actually have a pretty good idea what's causing the stagnation in your form. Everyone has their own ideas about training and we all respond differently, but if I were in your situation, I'd limit myself to racing twice a week and pick the two best (hardest) races. I'd also make a point of working as hard and intelligently as possible in both races. The rest of the week I'd concentrate on specific training and recovery.

Sitting in the back of a large, slow moving peloton four or five times a week is a high risk vs. training reward situation. I wouldn't do it.

Ergoman said:

Sounds like you actually have a pretty good idea what's causing the stagnation in your form. Everyone has their own ideas about training and we all respond differently, but if I were in your situation, I'd limit myself to racing twice a week and pick the two best (hardest) races. I'd also make a point of working as hard and intelligently as possible in both races. The rest of the week I'd concentrate on specific training and recovery.

Sitting in the back of a large, slow moving peloton four or five times a week is a high risk vs. training reward situation. I wouldn't do it.

it isn't really slow moving.....but the size means there is a massive draft - avge 42 in a field of 100 is a lot less tiring than avge 42 in a group of 7....at the back you barely have to touch the pedals at time. I do feel that some 30s L6 intervals might be more effective....

Sometimes racing too much causes you to miss out on some needed training. Do you have a powermeter? Watch your KJ, NP etc. Flat races (depending) are usually easier than a hard training day. Of course, you cannot just ride off of the front of your race either.

Why not use the races as training with the added bonus of maybe winning one?

Attack like a nutter, break away, bridge gaps etc... You'll probably blow and come
last but you'll get fitter and might even win - you'll certainly get noticed and have
less chance of being in a pile up! 😉

cheers,

Tom

ihana said:

Why not use the races as training with the added bonus of maybe winning one?

Attack like a nutter, break away, bridge gaps etc... You'll probably blow and come
last but you'll get fitter and might even win - you'll certainly get noticed and have
less chance of being in a pile up! 😉

cheers,

Tom

Agreed! Training hard by yourself sucks... but with some friendly competition those intervals are easy. Sitting in is wasted time unless your goal is to win(or get lots of L3 mileage). If they are training races, use them to train.

I race every Tuesday night at a local criterium. There is always at least one crash in every race, which is why our team's coach ALWAYS stresses being in the front 1/3 of the pack because the chances of being caught behind a crash and being in one are a lot lower. Based on my experiences this is in fact correct. It gets so much more dangerous when you are behind rookies and such.

I can't necessarily be definitive about the logic, but while I was being coached by one of the higher level CTS coaches, he always restricted me to just one mid-week race, plus a weekend race; the other riding days were the scheduled interval kind of thing. Partly it was because the stresses in a race are unstructured - tend to be short periods of very high intensity, versus the longer periods of high (but not as high) intensity you can get training solo. As for your drafting question, I would have to go to analyticalcycling to get numbers, but sitting in a big draft at 25mph (I think in mph rather than km/hr) takes less power than TTing at 22-23mph solo - so you aren't getting equivalent training even though the pack is moving pretty fast. In sum, solo training will raise your FTP (sustainable power) while the racing is stressing your short-term power - different physiological systems.

BullGod said:

Where I live it is possible to go to club races mon, tues, weds and sat. I also have criteriums on sundays.

Nowadays it seems as though I am seldom actually going training, and instead spending up to 10 hours a week sitting in a club peloton.

I've noticed a recent stagnation in my form, and am wondering if I have perhaps been coasting too much at the back of the peloton. On mon, weds and sat there is always a massive field of up to 180 riders including those from elite level, through to 60 year guys, and teenage girls, and there are plenty of crashes, so I often ride at the back to save my collar bones ;-)

I'm beginning to think that I might benefit from returning to some structured interval training for a while, and saving the racing for 1 or 2 x per week. I find that many of the club "races" are great for riding at L3 for 90 minutes, but unless you get lucky in a strong breakaway it isn't very demanding for me. Plus it gets boring, and the odds of crashing are elevated.

I'm curious as to whether a couple of hours of solitary training with hard intervals are more beneficial than 90 minutes in a bunch at 42 km/h? Anybody else had this dilemna? I am worried that "cruising" in a peloton as "training" means I am perhaps neglecting L5 and 6.....I don't have a PM yet so I can't make a comparison.....

42 km in a big bunch is coasting. Do you have a powermeter? I highly doubt it's l3 work.

IIRC, you're a cat 1, right? Is there any reason you can't park yourself at the front for periods to get in some nice threshold work?

BullGod said:

.....I don't have a PM yet so I can't make a comparison.....

...............................

Quoted post said:

I'm curious as to whether a couple of hours of solitary training with hard intervals are more beneficial than 90 minutes in a bunch at 42 km/h?

Absolutely, no doubt in my opinion. Riding at the back of a bunch is easy unless they accelerate very hard but only then for a few seconds. Take pulls at the front of the group or train sometimes by yourself. Short intervals (10 sec to 60 sec) are great training for crits and the accelerations in road races.

-bikeguy

bikeguy said:

Absolutely, no doubt in my opinion. Riding at the back of a bunch is easy unless they accelerate very hard but only then for a few seconds. Take pulls at the front of the group or train sometimes by yourself. Short intervals (10 sec to 60 sec) are great training for crits and the accelerations in road races.

-bikeguy

I had a 100 km road race on Saturday - my first since getting my powertap. I was frustarated because my NP for the 2.5 hr race was only .83 - whereas I've done .87 AP for 3 hrs, in training.

I'm starting to try and use my group rides for more theshold work, by dropping off the back slightly, or hovering off the front, if possible.

On Sunday I decided to give a solid effort in a 50' crit, and came out with an NP of .999

I could have gone harder, too, so I may have to test again.

postal_bag said:

I had a 100 km road race on Saturday - my first since getting my powertap. I was frustarated because my NP for the 2.5 hr race was only .83 - whereas I've done .87 AP for 3 hrs, in training.

I'm starting to try and use my group rides for more theshold work, by dropping off the back slightly, or hovering off the front, if possible.

On Sunday I decided to give a solid effort in a 50' crit, and came out with an NP of .999

I could have gone harder, too, so I may have to test again.

Yup, I often hang back off group rides to get more wind. Yesterday's ride was nasty though we had a 40-50 kph sidewind at times, the kind that makes your cheeks push in when you're riding, so no hanging back was required.

Sounds like your crit was intense, did you place well?

-bikeguy

bikeguy said:

Sounds like your crit was intense, did you place well?

-bikeguy

No, but my teamate won. We kept the pace high and foiled any attacks, etc. I gave my best 180% effort with 1.5 km to go, then another teamate took over with 1 km to go, and the eventual winner took the last 500 m. Strangely it wasn't so much of a leadout, as a strategically placed series of attacks.

Sounds like you did well for your teammate anyway. I'm doing a crit this sunday, again my first time on the course. 40 km. Did 3x20 min time trial effort plus with other rider yesterday. It was brutal, I went home ate, lay down and fell asleep.

-bikeguy

Around here I regard "club races" as training rides anyway. your beter off just setting yourself for real races on the weekends and training/ recovering during the week.

These races cant be too important if they're ridden 4 times a week! I race every w/e but I make sure I am travelling to a big race not just racing my ego at a clubby.