Racing to win or have fun?

[font=Verdana]I would say to be careful with pressure to perform. Sounds like me and swimming, I was always one of the fastest on the team, but never the fastest – in other words the slowest fast guy – and that was because I didn’t have the “killer instinct” at least not on a full time basis. Competitive yes, with a little pressure, I may have not missed going to Nationals by .01 of a second. I’ve seen a lot of kids get pushed hard by parents and it just gets ugly for everyone…[/font]

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[font=Verdana]My 2-cents[/font]

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[font=Verdana]HR[/font]

I know with me (19 years old) I wish I would have picked up competitive cycling like my uncle wanted me to a long time ago. But no, I was too cool for that spandex ballet stuff, and would much rather be cannonballing off a ledge or down a hill on either my mountain bike or hitting the streets in town on my bmx bike.

where did that get me? no where, had I started earlier, then by the time I made my way to college I could have been decent, and Indiana University (hell yeah for the hoosiers)/Bloomington, Indiana in general treats it's cyclists pretty well from what I can tell.

I think the best bet is to first ask your kid why he rides. Like the post above this said, the worst thing is to push them too hard, but still try and convince them that even if it's not the coolest thing right now, it gets you somewhere. Once you start to get older, the girls go for cyclists, shaved legs and all. People respect cyclists (granted there's a few jerks who yell stuff from cars and such), the desire, the dedication, the passion...everything about it.

I can say that I've hung up my Schwinn Hydromatic (for sale if anyone wants it) for good now, and am very happy shaving the engines (legs) a couple times of week and proudly don the spandex for trips into town.

You should ask very carefully what you mean by "too nice." I am not sure that I would place that in the pejorative. Also, instead of looking at it as "aggression," I would reframe it as "assertiveness." There is no negative connotation to being assertive; but being aggressive is frankly antisocial.

For me, being a "nice" guy, I have often had problems in bike races in getting to the front, riding confidently, and generally mixing it up with the faster riders, where I belong. I know that one thing that has really helped me a lot is to cease looking at it as an aggressive behaviour that I needed to cultivate in order to win, but to look at it instead as a technique.

Getting to the front, picking the right wheel, knocking about in a sprint, taking fast turns competently, those are all techniques which can be worked on. If you take the things that your 14 year old is afraid of, and work on them with him, and emphasize them as technical components of bike racing, then I think you will see a huge leap in results.

DUDE!!! the kid is 14... not old enough to drive yet. He or she is still trying to figure out what is up with all this hair growing on my body... Besides... the desire to win comes from hunger not aggression. You need to figure out what will make them hungry. Satisfying that hunger is what will make it fun.

Tubbs said:

DUDE!!! the kid is 14... You need to figure out what will make them hungry. Satisfying that hunger is what will make it fun.

I second that motion! When you do it that way you can grow a champion. Using aggression just makes another a--hole, sure they may be formidible competators, but really...

HR

Unless you think they can make a career out of cycling and a little (or moderate) push will truly help them, don't push them. There are more stories of parents/coaches pushing children in sports and kids giving the sport up then...posts on doping in these forums :p

Hookyrider said:

I second that motion! When you do it that way you can grow a champion. Using aggression just makes another a--hole, sure they may be formidible competators, but really...

HR

Absolutely... there is a difference between winning a race by beating everyone and winning a race because you rose above everyone else.

noonievut said:

Unless you think they can make a career out of cycling and a little (or moderate) push will truly help them, don't push them. There are more stories of parents/coaches pushing children in sports and kids giving the sport up then...posts on doping in these forums :p

LOL - and that is a sour lot too!!!

HR

JohnGillie said:

I've got a shy 14 year old racer with lots of talent, who's too nice, and has no aggression. I've also got two younger racers who take after him. I wish I could see more fire in their approach to racing, but it looks like the "kids should have fun" approach is an easy justification for not winning. Any ideas for helping them develop the mental competitive edge?

Just chuck them into the deep end of the pool. I'm not sure about cycling, but in tennis back when i was playing juniors, my coach decided to push me into the open categories. So i'll be this 15 year old up against players around age 28 yrs old. Kinda forced me to step up and bring in the "A" game, just to prove i'm not there to fill in the numbers.

but of course, i had other mental problems as a result such as a devil may care attitude towards the game such as going for broke.🙁

Max Phillips said:

Once you start to get older, the girls go for cyclists, shaved legs and all.

When does this happen, cause I haven't seen it yet.

keydates said:

When does this happen, cause I haven't seen it yet.

Common allow the kid to have his illusions 😉

Actually while I lived in Brasil I got a lot of attention from the ladies when I was riding... it was weird. But in the US, I can't say that ladies give that much attention to you on the bike... I rely on off the bike for that 😎

I assume that the attention was positive in Brasil?

JohnGillie said:

I've got a shy 14 year old racer with lots of talent, who's too nice, and has no aggression. I've also got two younger racers who take after him. I wish I could see more fire in their approach to racing, but it looks like the "kids should have fun" approach is an easy justification for not winning. Any ideas for helping them develop the mental competitive edge?

Bribery. Worked for me when I was 14... :-)

I think it is highly regrettable how John asks a perfectly legitimate question, and gets nothing but silly answers. Some of you even start talking about your own wasted talent and wasted childhood, and lotsa what if arguments which is so archetypically losers. Make your own loser thread. I am gonna give a decent reply to what John could do, in order not to waste his precious little boy's talent.

Basic psychology tells us that people live according to their life scripts, and that these are based on parental programming. Parents pass on to them what they have learned or what they think they have learned. If they are losers, they will pass on their loser's programming, and if they are winners, then they will pass on that kinda program. Well, here's what: seeing that you seem to value competitiveness, and that your kids ain't- it tells me a couple of things.

Surely, from twin analysis, we know that upbringing ain't all. But fact is
that your spouse probably has more influence on your kids than you do. Solution: get rid of your spouse.

Next problem, you gotta give the kid incentives to win. Obviously, the little brat is happy just as it is, in balance, feels good with himself and all that [censored]- which ain't necessarily a good foundation to build a winner on. A mental winner perhaps, but not a real winner getting his name on athletic shoe ads and bringing in cash for your retirement.

Seeing as they are probably spoiled enough already, you have to punish them more. Try giving them a gentle slap if they don't try hard enough. A slap in front of friends is especially humiliating. If he makes any gesture that he is happy with just a podium finish- NO dinner. (Added bonus that they will stay slim. Staying slim is hard enough for pros- ask Ja.. no, maybe not.) This might make your kids a little careful around you, but after all- you wanna be DAD and not a buddy, right? Right?

Actually, the nicest cyclist that I know personally is also the best cyclist I know personally. He's now a multiple winner of the state road championship, national road championship, 3-time Olympic road team member, ~5x world championship road team member and US Cycling Hall of Fame inductee. He was just tremendously gifted and rode away from all of us after the 1st 50 miles or so, almost apologetically. His attitude wasn't "I'm now going to kick your ass." It was more like, "Well, it's been fun so far boys, but I've got to go now."

Maybe you can turn your child onto the goal of training themselves to their potential as measured by their sustainable power or their personal best time to the top of a challenging climb or some sort of personal goal rather than a "Go beat their brains out" goal. When they have the power, they'll probably use it in races from time to time (when the spirit moves them).

Aranesp said:

I think it is highly regrettable how John asks a perfectly legitimate question, and gets nothing but silly answers. Some of you even start talking about your own wasted talent and wasted childhood, and lotsa what if arguments which is so archetypically losers. Make your own loser thread. I am gonna give a decent reply to what John could do, in order not to waste his precious little boy's talent.

Basic psychology tells us that people live according to their life scripts, and that these are based on parental programming. Parents pass on to them what they have learned or what they think they have learned. If they are losers, they will pass on their loser's programming, and if they are winners, then they will pass on that kinda program. Well, here's what: seeing that you seem to value competitiveness, and that your kids ain't- it tells me a couple of things.

Surely, from twin analysis, we know that upbringing ain't all. But fact is
that your spouse probably has more influence on your kids than you do. Solution: get rid of your spouse.

Next problem, you gotta give the kid incentives to win. Obviously, the little brat is happy just as it is, in balance, feels good with himself and all that [censored]- which ain't necessarily a good foundation to build a winner on. A mental winner perhaps, but not a real winner getting his name on athletic shoe ads and bringing in cash for your retirement.

Seeing as they are probably spoiled enough already, you have to punish them more. Try giving them a gentle slap if they don't try hard enough. A slap in front of friends is especially humiliating. If he makes any gesture that he is happy with just a podium finish- NO dinner. (Added bonus that they will stay slim. Staying slim is hard enough for pros- ask Ja.. no, maybe not.) This might make your kids a little careful around you, but after all- you wanna be DAD and not a buddy, right? Right?

I agree, but instead of slapping them in front of their friends, put them in a pile driver. This will make them strong!

JohnGillie said:

I've got a shy 14 year old racer with lots of talent, who's too nice, and has no aggression. I've also got two younger racers who take after him. I wish I could see more fire in their approach to racing, but it looks like the "kids should have fun" approach is an easy justification for not winning. Any ideas for helping them develop the mental competitive edge?

i would ask them if they wanted to continue cycling but at a more competitive level. i'm 15 so if i was like your 14 yr old it made just be intimidation from older competitors but i think it should pay off in the long run.

Give your kid prizes for beating his own goals. If his previous best placing was 5th, give him a cd of his choice if he gets 4th or something. Or, go off his highest race average. Encouragement...and pressies. Works wonders :p

Im not a dad btw, just what would work on me. Still would....nudge nudge to my fiancee...😉

in the former USSR 14 was te age when we were riding group races, doing time trials and criteriums..
my best ime for 10k was 12:59 on a steel Start Shosse bike.. We were learnig alot at that age, how to ride in a 2-4-6 men paceline etc..
When i come o US i found people here dont know how to ride paceline, not even speaking of team time trials...
that is the perfect age to develop competitive edge and sportsmanship abilities..

Tubbs said:

DUDE!!! the kid is 14... not old enough to drive yet. He or she is still trying to figure out what is up with all this hair growing on my body... Besides... the desire to win comes from hunger not aggression. You need to figure out what will make them hungry. Satisfying that hunger is what will make it fun.