race with music on

In article said:

I know a lot of runners here run with music on. But do you also run *race* with music on? I have a
5K next week on Thanksgiving Day, my first race this year, but cannot decide whether I should
bring the music player with me (if it's allowed). How would that impact the race performance?
Thanks - Tian

Never seen or heard of elite or even faster runners do this -- the more serious runners prefer to
concentrate 100% on the race, and not music. Some of the more casual runners do take music to the
races, and some even believe it helps them.

I often train with music (MP3 player) but I wouldn't even think of taking it to a race or even
speed work.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Most race applications I have filled out specify "No Headphones" among other things. First, I guess
there is a safety concern regarding awareness of racing conditions and the possibility of dropping
foreign objects (CD's, cords etc.) into the path of other racers(yeah, I know - water cups,gel packs
etc.) - how a director handles the participation of blind or deaf racers is probably unique to an
event (or the insurance policy).

Second, someone, somewhere could complain that a runner may be recieving unfair information from
support teams or UFO's, or an unfair musical pacing advantage (snicker). Not sure how HRM's are
viewed. I've seen headphones used in races, but it's probably better to use a player for pre-race
psyching and post race celebration.

Tian Liu said:

I know a lot of runners here run with music on. But do you also run *race* with music on? I have a
5K next week on Thanksgiving Day, my first race this year, but cannot decide whether I should
bring the music player with me (if it's allowed). How would that impact the race performance?
Thanks - Tian

--
Random number generation is too vital a task to be left to chance.

In article _BLub.613$yX5.189@okepread05 said:

Second, someone, somewhere could complain that a runner may be recieving unfair information
from support teams or UFO's, or an unfair musical pacing advantage (snicker). Not sure how
HRM's are viewed.

HRMs seem to be viewed as either an exploratory data gathering tool (rr's Roger 2k used the HRM in
this manner, and I followed suit out of curiosity), or a good way to make yourself run slowly
(useful in training but not racing). Not many people view them as useful for pace setting in a race.

I recall that there are some rules about "unfair information"/coaching too, but don't remember what
they are. Do you ?

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

In article said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

In article _BLub.613$yX5.189@okepread05 said:

Second, someone, somewhere could complain that a runner may be recieving unfair information from
support teams or UFO's, or an unfair musical pacing advantage (snicker). Not sure how HRM's are
viewed.

HRMs seem to be viewed as either an exploratory data gathering tool (rr's Roger 2k used the HRM
in this manner, and I followed suit out of curiosity), or a good way to make yourself run
slowly (useful in training but not racing). Not many people view them as useful for pace
setting in a race.

I recall that there are some rules about "unfair information"/coaching too, but don't remember
what they are. Do you?

The Roadrunners Club of America has guidelines against the use of headphones in races. This is
considered a safety risk as the athlete is not alert to the environment around him/her. Many race
directors follow this guideline and "prohibit" headphones, although no one actually enforces the
rule. The RRCA also recommends against wearing headphones during road runs as well.

There is no restriction on the use of HRMs or coaching during road races to my knowledge, as long
as the coach isn't directly aiding an athlete as a pacemaker.

Looks like this is the rule in question:

RULE 66 ASSISTANCE TO ATHLETES 1. Except as provided in road races (Rule 132) and in long distance
walking events (Rule 150), during the progress of an event a competitor who has received any
assistance whatsoever from any other person may be disqualified by the Referee. "Assistance" is the
conveying of advice, information or direct help to an athlete by any means, including a technical
device. It also includes pacing in running or walking events by persons not participating in the
event, by competitors lapped or about to be lapped, or by any kind of technical device. It does not
mean participation of an officially designated pacesetter in the race. NOTE 1: Pacesetting by a
person entered in an event for that purpose is permitted. NOTE 2: Competitors may carry or wear
articles of personal equipment such as wrist chronometers and heart rate monitors. 2. (a) Verbal or
other communication, without the use of any technical device, from an individual who is not in the
competition area to an athlete who is in the competition area shall not be considered assistance.

--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Good info. Have heard of the rule, but never actually seen it in print.

Donovan Rebbechi said:

In article said:

Donovan Rebbechi wrote:

Quoted message said:

RULE 66 ASSISTANCE TO ATHLETES 1. Except as provided in road races (Rule 132) and in long distance
walking events (Rule 150), during the progress of an event a competitor who has received any
assistance whatsoever from any other person may be disqualified by the Referee. "Assistance" is
the conveying of advice, information or direct help to an athlete by any means, including a
technical device. It also includes pacing in running or walking events by persons not
participating in the event, by competitors lapped or about to be lapped, or by any kind of
technical device. It does not mean participation of an officially designated pacesetter in the
race. NOTE 1: Pacesetting by a person entered in an event for that purpose is permitted. NOTE 2:
Competitors may carry or wear articles of personal equipment such as wrist chronometers and heart
rate monitors. 2. (a) Verbal or other communication, without the use of any technical device, from
an individual who is not in the competition area to an athlete who is in the competition area
shall not be considered assistance.

--
Random number generation is too vital a task to be left to chance.

Donovan Rebbechi said:

"Assistance" is the conveying of advice, information or direct help to an athlete by any means,

What a bunch of vague gobbledygook. Is there some definition of "advice" to give this sentence some
real balls?

Quoted message said:

including a technical device. It also includes pacing in running or walking events by persons
not participating in the event, by competitors lapped or about to be lapped, or by any kind
of technical device. It does not mean participation of an officially designated pacesetter in
the race.

--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email hidden]

In article <[email hidden]>, Doug Freese

Quoted message said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

"Assistance" is the conveying of advice, information or direct help to an athlete by any means,

What a bunch of vague gobbledygook. Is there some definition of "advice" to give this sentence
some real balls?

As Dave runs by during the Olympic Marathon Trials:

"Hey, Dave! Invest in mutual funds! Don't fall for the Nigerian scam! Get an oil change every 3,000
miles! Neither a borrower not a lender be! If a woman has open sores, don't sleep with her, even if
she's beautiful!"

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

- Homer J. Simpson

"Tian Liu" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I know a lot of runners here run with music on. But do you also run *race* with music on? I have a
5K next week on Thanksgiving Day, my first race this year, but cannot decide whether I should
bring the music player with me (if it's allowed). How would that impact the race performance?
Thanks - Tian

Bad idea. The crowds at the start will be dangerous and you may miss important instructions on the
course or at the finish. That's the reason most races prohibit their use, and why blind and deaf
runners have an escort.

Keith

Harold Buck said:

Get an oil change every 3,000 miles!

Do this, and you will get engine wear. Car dealers and auto mechanics WANT you to wear out your
engine, so they can sell you a new one. Do it every 2,000 and wear will be nonexistant.

Tian Liu said:

I know a lot of runners here run with music on. But do you also run *race* with music on? I have a
5K next week on Thanksgiving Day, my first race this year, but cannot decide whether I should
bring the music player with me (if it's allowed). How would that impact the race performance?
Thanks - Tian

... Yeah, yeah, yeah, all the points raised so far are valid.

That said, I run EVERY race with music. I like it. I think it helps me. The races I run are long, 10
miles or longer. Being "psyched" is not enough to get through a 79 minute 10 mile race, an hour 45
minute half marathon, etc.

Sorry to disappoint. -- Josh in Syracuse

Josh Steinberg <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Tian Liu said:

I know a lot of runners here run with music on. But do you also run *race* with music on? I have
a 5K next week on Thanksgiving Day, my first race this year, but cannot decide whether I should
bring the music player with me (if it's allowed). How would that impact the race performance?
Thanks - Tian

When I was running the Baltimore Marathon last month, a runner ahead of me was moving along with an
MP3 player on his arm, racing his own race. The course at Baltimore is fairly up-and-down in the
last 13 miles; as we approached a long downhill, someone behind me warned, "Wheelchair up on LEFT!"
I looked back, and coming down the hill in a full-on tuck was a racing chair and pilot.

The small group I was with moved right and made a gap...except for MP3 man. We all started warning
him, "Wheelchair LEFT! WHEELCHAIR COMING LEFT!" He never heard us - he just kept on his merry way.

The wheelchair racer closed up right on his heels, and the then started moving to his right to get
around him...when MP3 man looked down and just about lost his mind. He never heard it coming, and
nearly took them both out when startled by the pass.

That's not the first time I've seen wheelchairs come up on oblivious, headphone-wearing runners -
just the most recent.

Headphones have no place in races. If you want to run with tunes, do it on your own - not where it
could (could - not will) affect others trying to race.

Just my $.02

Bob Mina Philadelphia, PA

Harold Buck said:

As Dave runs by during the Olympic Marathon Trials:

"Hey, Dave! Invest in mutual funds! Don't fall for the Nigerian scam! Get an oil change every
3,000 miles! Neither a borrower not a lender be! If a woman has open sores, don't sleep with her,
even if she's beautiful!"

🙂 🙂

Can you hear me now? 😉

--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Harold Buck said:

Get an oil change every 3,000 miles!

Do this, and you will get engine wear. Car dealers and auto mechanics WANT you to wear out your
engine, so they can sell you a new one. Do it every 2,000 and wear will be nonexistant.

Glad to see you are as knowledgeable about cars as you are running.

Most of guidelines for oil changes are 5,000 but say if you live in a very dusty area it's best to
do it 3,000. The dealers prefer to knee jerk 3,000 because they get your car in there a lot more
times over the life of the car and the opportunity to find other $$things$$ that need to be fixed.

Doing it every 2,000 miles is like changing your running shoes every 200 miles and we know you
suggest thousands of miles or was that multiple years or was that centuries for each pair?

--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email hidden]

In article said:

Quoted message said:

Harold Buck said:

Get an oil change every 3,000 miles!

Do this, and you will get engine wear. Car dealers and auto mechanics WANT you to wear out your
engine, so they can sell you a new one. Do it every 2,000 and wear will be nonexistant.

Glad to see you are as knowledgeable about cars as you are running.

He has very broad ignorance.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Doug Freese said:

Glad to see you are as knowledgeable about cars as you are running.

Aloow me to pick you apart of sheit-smelling one!

Quoted message said:

Most of guidelines for oil changes are 5,000

Never, EVER heard this anywhere. 3,000 is the standard.

Quoted message said:

but say if you live in a very dusty area it's best to do it 3,000. The dealers prefer to knee jerk
3,000 because they get your car in there a lot more times over the life of the car and the
opportunity to find other $$things$$ that need to be fixed.

That's one reason, but basically they want to take care of your car well enough to satisfy you, but
not well enough that it lasts forever.

Quoted message said:

Doing it every 2,000 miles is like changing your running shoes every 200 miles and we know you
suggest thousands of miles or was that multiple years or was that centuries for each pair?

Shoes aside, allow me to once again rub your face in your bowel movement. You see dumbass if you
change it every 3,000 you'll notice a day later that when you check the oil it is black again.
Change it every 2,000 and it is clear as when it went in, and stays that way. Add in a product like
Slick 50, or MolyGold and your engine won't be a problem for many, many years. One IMPORTANT thing
with Slick or Moly is to be sure to use a cheap oil filter with large openings in the filter
medium. If you use those additives with a good brand filter the filter will filter out the product
before it can work, so while treating your engine use the cheap filter, then on the next oil change
use the good one.

(for Roidger/Frasier/Jo/Rogina), or the meaning of life (most runners) you can send a 1$ bill to
TheBillRodgers, pob 6969, Lords Valley Penn. Or you can call my phone se... er, I mean my prayer
line at 1-800-EAT-[censored] or if you aren't hungry call 1 800 Kiss-sass

Donovan Rebbechi said:

He has very broad ignorance.

Coming from you that IS a compliment.

Wisdomz runner said:

Or you can call my phone se... er, I mean my prayer line at 1-800-EAT-[censored] or if you aren't hungry
call 1 800 Kiss-sass

Gee ya know, this got me thinking, anybody want my real phone number to call me up and say "hi!" ?
I am kinda lonely today, and I think a round of calls from Realbitchy and Doogie would really
brighten my day.

Wisdomz runner said:

Doug Freese said:

Glad to see you are as knowledgeable about cars as you are running.

Aloow me to pick you apart of sheit-smelling one!

Quoted message said:

Most of guidelines for oil changes are 5,000

Never, EVER heard this anywhere. 3,000 is the standard.

Good grief! What do you put in you engines? Over on my side of the pond my car's recommended oil
change interval is 12,500 miles.

Now I grant you that has probably got more to do with keeping fleet car costs down than engine
health but it's been decades since any petrol engined car has needed a change more than every 6000
miles. The old indirect injection diesels used to dirty their oil quickly and needed 3000 mile
changes but since they all moved over to direct injection (which doesn't dirty the oil anything like
as much) they've moved over to 10/12,000 mile oil change intervals.

Very very few cars meet their makers here with completely worn out engines. It's nearly always
escalating repair costs for all the other bits (body/suspension/transmission/cooling etc.) that lead
to their downfall.

I'm quite prepared to believe that an optimum change interval for maximum engine health is
*less* than 12,000 miles but nowhere near as low as 3000. You're being taken for a ride by your
service dealers.

Tim
--
Remove the obvious to reply by email.

Tim Downie said:

Wisdomz runner wrote: Good grief! What do you put in you engines? Over on my side of the pond my
car's recommended oil change interval is 12,500 miles.

Now I grant you that has probably got more to do with keeping fleet car costs down than engine
health but it's been decades since any petrol engined car has needed a change more than every 6000
miles. The old indirect injection diesels used to dirty their oil quickly and needed 3000 mile
changes but since they all moved over to direct injection (which doesn't dirty the oil anything
like as much) they've moved over to 10/12,000 mile oil change intervals.

Very very few cars meet their makers here with completely worn out engines. It's nearly always
escalating repair costs for all the other bits (body/suspension/transmission/cooling etc.) that
lead to their downfall.

I'm quite prepared to believe that an optimum change interval for maximum engine health is
*less* than 12,000 miles but nowhere near as low as 3000. You're being taken for a ride by your
service dealers.

Interesting Tim. RU sure you don't have Kilometers and miles confused?