race video

Daniel Connelly said:

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raisport.rai.itraisport.rai.itOpen ↗

The crash is insane. Riders like 7 across going into a right-hand turn. All of a sudden they're
bouncing off each other, then boom.

I agree with Rodriguez -- LeBlanc's an idiot. There's no way such a corner belongs at 500 meters.
The video makes it hard to believe any other result was possible.

Dan

Any worse than picking a causeway full of slime at low tide? At least he's a consistent idiot.

Quoted message said:

From: David Ryan [email hidden] Date: 7/6/2003 5:57 PM Eastern

Quoted message said:

Daniel Connelly said:

Go to:

raisport.rai.itraisport.rai.itOpen ↗

The crash is insane. Riders like 7 across going into a right-hand turn. All of a sudden they're
bouncing off each other, then boom.

I agree with Rodriguez -- LeBlanc's an idiot. There's no way such a corner belongs at 500 meters.
The video makes it hard to believe any other result was possible.

Dan

Quoted message said:

Any worse than picking a causeway full of slime at low tide? At least he's a consistent idiot.

You guys just hit on the topic of conversation here too. What a pathetic job of coming up with a
course. It was a disaster waiting to happen. In the 100th year anniversary of the tour this is
incomprehensible to me, but much that they do is. Bill C.

David Ryan said:

Daniel Connelly said:

Go to:

raisport.rai.itraisport.rai.itOpen ↗

The crash is insane. Riders like 7 across going into a right-hand turn. All of a sudden they're
bouncing off each other, then boom.

I agree with Rodriguez -- LeBlanc's an idiot. There's no way such a corner belongs at 500 meters.
The video makes it hard to believe any other result was possible.

Dan

Any worse than picking a causeway full of slime at low tide? At least he's a consistent idiot.

Well stated.

He waxes sanctimoniously about "Le Tour", for which he's willing to send riders to the slaughter.
Obviously rider safety isn't a concern. Hamilton down? Leipheimer down? Virenque injured? No matter.
There's always others. Le Tour est Le Tour -- the riders are just players in the big show. And
there's at least 100 or so to spare.

Of course, if he were to restrict the route to finishes which met some standard of safety, he would
no longer be able to sell them to the highest bidders. Quelle horreur!

In article said:

Go to:

raisport.rai.itraisport.rai.itOpen ↗

The crash is insane. Riders like 7 across going into a right-hand turn. All of a sudden they're
bouncing off each other, then boom.

I agree with Rodriguez -- LeBlanc's an idiot. There's no way such a corner belongs at 500 meters.
The video makes it hard to believe any other result was possible.

I guess the best bike riders in the world need to come to the USA to learn how to do finishes with a
corner in the last kilometer.

-WG

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: race video From: warren [email hidden] Date: 7/6/2003 7:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I guess the best bike riders in the world need to come to the USA to learn how to do finishes with
a corner in the last kilometer.

-WG

yeah, right...funny I didn't see any Americans on the front duking it out at 70kph. The corner was
idiotic with 500 meters to go. - Fred B.

Daniel Connelly said:

He waxes sanctimoniously about "Le Tour", for which he's willing to send riders to the slaughter.
Obviously rider safety isn't a concern. Hamilton down? Leipheimer down? Virenque injured? No
matter. There's always others. Le Tour est Le Tour -- the riders are just players in the big show.
And there's at least 100 or so to spare.

For the centenary Tour, Leblanc is trying to honor the memory of Henri Desgrange, specifically the
time when Lapize called the organizers "Assassins!" (For sending the riders over the Pyrenees on
goat tracks, IIRC. I hope Benjo Maso doesn't followup that this is yet another urban legend.)

Quoted message said:

Of course, if he were to restrict the route to finishes which met some standard of safety, he
would no longer be able to sell them to the highest bidders. Quelle horreur!

He can't do much about the traffic islands, but I bet he could take dangerous last corners out by
modestly compromising something else (TV angles, spectator room, etc). Really the UCI should also
share blame - they must have to approve the course. AFAIK there is no firm UCI rule for safe
finishes. They don't really have any urgent incentive to change things, the riders can make noise
but unlike most European trades, they are unorganized (no union), hence less negotiating power.

At least Leblance didn't put yet more teams into the Tour, though come to think of it, if Domina
Vacanze had been massed on the front the finish would have much less chaotic. My brilliant idea for
fixing cycling is that GT teams should be cut to 8 riders (also the 1km crash rule should be
increased to 2km or so). They could let another team in and still have a smaller peleton. Tactics
get interesting when teams are depleted, like US Postal in the 2002 Vuelta. It would also make it
harder for sprinters' teams to chase down breaks.

warren said:

I guess the best bike riders in the world need to come to the USA to learn how to do finishes with
a corner in the last kilometer.

-WG

The depth and size of the field, along with the magnitude of what's at stake, are substantially
different. This isn't Burlingame...

Dan

"Benjamin Weiner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Daniel Connelly <[email hidden]> wrote:

At least Leblance didn't put yet more teams into the Tour, though come to think of it, if Domina
Vacanze had been massed on the front the finish would have much less chaotic.

Domina Vacanze had trouble with finishes in the Giro that had turns. They are a step or two below
the Saeco leadout trains of a few years ago.

I had the e "Benjamin Weiner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Daniel Connelly said:

He waxes sanctimoniously about "Le Tour", for which he's willing to send riders to the
slaughter. Obviously rider safety isn't a concern. Hamilton down? Leipheimer down? Virenque
injured? No matter. There's always others. Le Tour est Le Tour -- the riders are just players in
the big show. And there's at least 100 or so to spare.

For the centenary Tour, Leblanc is trying to honor the memory of Henri Desgrange, specifically the
time when Lapize called the organizers "Assassins!" (For sending the riders over the Pyrenees on
goat tracks, IIRC. I hope Benjo Maso doesn't followup that this is yet another urban legend.)

Quoted message said:

Of course, if he were to restrict the route to finishes which met some standard of safety, he
would no longer be able to sell them to the highest bidders. Quelle horreur!

He can't do much about the traffic islands, but I bet he could take dangerous last corners out by
modestly compromising something else (TV angles, spectator room, etc). Really the UCI should also
share blame - they must have to approve the course. AFAIK there is no firm UCI rule for safe
finishes. They don't really have any urgent incentive to change things, the riders can make noise
but unlike most European trades, they are unorganized (no union), hence less negotiating power.

At least Leblance didn't put yet more teams into the Tour, though come to think of it, if Domina
Vacanze had been massed on the front the finish would have much less chaotic. My brilliant idea
for fixing cycling is that GT teams should be cut to 8 riders (also the 1km crash rule should be
increased to 2km or so). They could let another team in and still have a smaller peleton. Tactics
get interesting when teams are depleted, like US Postal in the 2002 Vuelta. It would also make it
harder for sprinters' teams to chase down breaks.

I had the exact same thought!

"Benjamin Weiner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Daniel Connelly said:

He waxes sanctimoniously about "Le Tour", for which he's willing to send riders to the
slaughter. Obviously rider safety isn't a concern. Hamilton down? Leipheimer down? Virenque
injured? No matter. There's always others. Le Tour est Le Tour -- the riders are just players in
the big show. And there's at least 100 or so to spare.

For the centenary Tour, Leblanc is trying to honor the memory of Henri Desgrange, specifically the
time when Lapize called the organizers "Assassins!" (For sending the riders over the Pyrenees on
goat tracks, IIRC. I hope Benjo Maso doesn't followup that this is yet another urban legend.)

Quoted message said:

Of course, if he were to restrict the route to finishes which met some standard of safety, he
would no longer be able to sell them to the highest bidders. Quelle horreur!

He can't do much about the traffic islands, but I bet he could take dangerous last corners out by
modestly compromising something else (TV angles, spectator room, etc). Really the UCI should also
share blame - they must have to approve the course. AFAIK there is no firm UCI rule for safe
finishes. They don't really have any urgent incentive to change things, the riders can make noise
but unlike most European trades, they are unorganized (no union), hence less negotiating power.

At least Leblance didn't put yet more teams into the Tour, though come to think of it, if Domina
Vacanze had been massed on the front the finish would have much less chaotic. My brilliant idea
for fixing cycling is that GT teams should be cut to 8 riders (also the 1km crash rule should be
increased to 2km or so). They could let another team in and still have a smaller peleton. Tactics
get interesting when teams are depleted, like US Postal in the 2002 Vuelta. It would also make it
harder for sprinters' teams to chase down breaks.

In article <[email hidden]>, Daniel Connelly

Quoted message said:

warren said:

I guess the best bike riders in the world need to come to the USA to learn how to do finishes
with a corner in the last kilometer.

-WG

The depth and size of the field, along with the magnitude of what's at stake, are substantially
different. This isn't Burlingame...

C'mon Dan. There are plenty of criteriums bigger than Burlingame.

-WG

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

You guys just hit on the topic of conversation here too. What a pathetic job of coming up with a
course. It was a disaster waiting to happen. In the 100th year anniversary of the tour this is
incomprehensible to me, but much that

they

Quoted message said:

do is.

Maybe he is hoping to eliminate all the non-french competition so that a frechman will win in paris?
-----------------
Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)

warren <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Daniel Connelly

Quoted message said:

warren said:

I guess the best bike riders in the world need to come to the USA to learn how to do finishes
with a corner in the last kilometer.

-WG

The depth and size of the field, along with the magnitude of what's at stake, are substantially
different. This isn't Burlingame...

C'mon Dan. There are plenty of criteriums bigger than Burlingame.

With 198 racers? With 85% of those from Tier ONE teams??? Not.

-Ken

In article said:

warren <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Daniel Connelly <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

warren wrote:
> I guess the best bike riders in the world need to come to the USA to learn how to do
> finishes with a corner in the last kilometer.
>
> -WG

The depth and size of the field, along with the magnitude of what's at stake, are
substantially different. This isn't Burlingame...

C'mon Dan. There are plenty of criteriums bigger than Burlingame.

With 198 racers? With 85% of those from Tier ONE teams??? Not.

Burlingame was a meaningless comment from Dan. That is a relatively tiny race among many others with
better riders racing for much higher stakes.

Armstrong himself said that guys who are fresh, and not good bike handlers are getting mixed into
the finale and suggested that maybe the organizers should not allow so many unskilled riders in the
race. McKewen said that some guys causing problems in the finale shouldn't be there either. So I
guess they agree with me that some guys don't have the skills they should have if they want to be in
the action during the last few k's. Most of the time Cipo's team makes things so fast that only the
guys who really can, and should be there are taking part in the finale. Faster is safer.

-WG