race report TT&RR

Hmmm... surprised there are no comments.

Anyway, did another road race last sunday and I got killed. The race was 115 km and had 5 laps part of which was through a section of a town and had a large number of 90 degree turns with a few potholes and sections of cobbles thrown in, along with one nice short 17% or so hill and a few other fairly short steep hills. The race started in town, and I fell behind a few meters on every turn and was down 150 meters at the straightaway going out on the highway part of the circuit.

I managed to catch back up to the group and was fine until we again hit the turns and got dropped again but even worse, I actually fell behind the most on the DOWNHILL parts just before the turns while doing just fine on the uphill parts. Now I was more than 300 meters down and I closed it down to 100 but then I was out of juice. I completed the second lap and called it quits because for some reason I was feeling really tired and lousy and I didn't want to get in the way of the elite field who would surely lap me.

All in all a lousy day, these RR's with sharp turns definitely don't suit me and I will be looking forward to a more open RR. Can't say I didn't learn anything though.

-bikeguy

Hmmm... surprised there are no comments.

Anyway, did another road race last sunday and I got killed. The race was 115 km and had 5 laps part of which was through a section of a town and had a large number of 90 degree turns with a few potholes and sections of cobbles thrown in, along with one nice short 17% or so hill and a few other fairly short steep hills. The race started in town, and I fell behind a few meters on every turn and was down 150 meters at the straightaway going out on the highway part of the circuit.

I managed to catch back up to the group and was fine until we again hit the turns and got dropped again but even worse, I actually fell behind the most on the DOWNHILL parts just before the turns while doing just fine on the uphill parts. Now I was more than 300 meters down and I closed it down to 100 but then I was out of juice. I completed the second lap and called it quits because for some reason I was feeling really tired and lousy and I didn't want to get in the way of the elite field who would surely lap me.

All in all a lousy day, these RR's with sharp turns definitely don't suit me and I will be looking forward to a more open RR. Can't say I didn't learn anything though.

-bikeguy

Sounds tough, supposedly races with sharp corners are the ones that take the most getting used to for racing newbies because of their stop-and-go nature. I haven't raced yet but will hopefully be doing it soon. Good job on that TT...

PartisanRanger said:

Sounds tough, supposedly races with sharp corners are the ones that take the most getting used to for racing newbies because of their stop-and-go nature. I haven't raced yet but will hopefully be doing it soon. Good job on that TT...

The thing about the sharp turns is that you have to a: keep up as much corner speed as possible, and b: accelerate back up to speed as quickly as possible, and the further you are down the bunch, the more you're likely to get caught up with people who'll let a gap open up and not be able to close it. Same with the fast descending stuff - you need to practise it to get good at it. It's often a shock to new racers just how flexible you have to be speedwise - it all looks consistent from th side of the road, but once in the bunch it's a lot more brief accelarations than you expect. You maybe need to work some of this into your training, as lots of consistent fast miles at steady cadence, or TT training, just isn't going to do you any good in that respect. Otherwise, just do as much actual road racing as possible - the more you do it, the better you'll get at it. That's the thing about cycling, it's not just about fitness - you need bike handling, tactics, luck...
Oh, as well as carrying two bottles, think about your hydration in the couple of days before a long race. It's very hard to drink too much water, but it's very, very easy to drink too little. It doesn't take much dehydration to seriously affect your performance, and if you're dehydrated at the start, you'll never replace it with a couple of bottles, no matter what's in them.
Stick at it!

Eastway82 said:

The thing about the sharp turns is that you have to a: keep up as much corner speed as possible, and b: accelerate back up to speed as quickly as possible, and the further you are down the bunch, the more you're likely to get caught up with people who'll let a gap open up and not be able to close it. Same with the fast descending stuff - you need to practise it to get good at it. It's often a shock to new racers just how flexible you have to be speedwise - it all looks consistent from th side of the road, but once in the bunch it's a lot more brief accelarations than you expect. You maybe need to work some of this into your training, as lots of consistent fast miles at steady cadence, or TT training, just isn't going to do you any good in that respect. Otherwise, just do as much actual road racing as possible - the more you do it, the better you'll get at it. That's the thing about cycling, it's not just about fitness - you need bike handling, tactics, luck...
Oh, as well as carrying two bottles, think about your hydration in the couple of days before a long race. It's very hard to drink too much water, but it's very, very easy to drink too little. It doesn't take much dehydration to seriously affect your performance, and if you're dehydrated at the start, you'll never replace it with a couple of bottles, no matter what's in them.
Stick at it!

Definitely my problem was the turns - I actually braked coming into many of them. Unfortunately it was my first ride on the course - I didn't get time to really check it out before the race - although I did get around to half the turns and the big hill up.

Honestly I think I was suffering from fatigue - having done a TT and a road race the weekend before and then a 140 km ride inbetween solo and then another road race - was just too much. Looking at my speedo over the last few kilometers I was riding at a speed I easily exceed in my training. I also will not use the electrolyte powder I used during the race in my water bottles (isotonic force). It was my first time using it and the more I drank the worse I felt - when I got rid of it and drank water I felt better. I can also say that sodium bicarbonate does NOT help me during a race, I mixed it into my drinks.

I was at the back of this race all the time and was getting tired - the other race last weekend I was at the front many times and pulling with numerous attacks at 45-50 kph (although I was in the back for these) and i didn't feel tired at all except for that stupid cramp that shut me down. I did drink plenty before this race. I did hit 55-60 km/hr solo trying to catch up to the group in this race, the first lap it was enough and the second it wasn't. It was that 1-2 km at that speed that finished me, once I was dropped the 2nd time. I was actually panting for several minutes.

If I had a 56 front chainring would help me conserve energy during charges like that, I hate riding at over 90 rpm. I currently use 50x12 and I hate it when I have a downhill and tailwind during a TT and don't break 53 kph like during my 20 k TT two weeks ago.

-bikeguy

bikeguy said:

If I had a 56 front chainring would help me conserve energy during charges like that, I hate riding at over 90 rpm. I currently use 50x12 and I hate it when I have a downhill and tailwind during a TT and don't break 53 kph like during my 20 k TT two weeks ago.

-bikeguy

90rpm.... I hardly ever go that low unless I'm climbing something WAY big and I've run out of gears! Sounds like you've got a compact crankset, and really that only works if you're happy to spin faster once you run out of gears to change up to.
As I said before, road racing and TTs need very different approaches. In road racing you've got to be flexible, and that means you have to be able to vary not just speed, but cadence when necessary. Sounds like you should think about going to a conventional crankset with a 53 big ring, and maybe change your cassette for one with an 11T top. The best advice, though, is to learn to spin - apart from anything else, it's less stress on the knees and tendons, and you get less of a build up of crud (that's the technical term...) in your muscles. If nothing else, alternating between spinning and mashing gives your muscles a chance to work in different ways, and a change is as good as a rest.
I don't think you should get too despondent after two races - it takes time to get the hang of this game.

Eastway82 said:

90rpm.... I hardly ever go that low unless I'm climbing something WAY big and I've run out of gears! Sounds like you've got a compact crankset, and really that only works if you're happy to spin faster once you run out of gears to change up to.
As I said before, road racing and TTs need very different approaches. In road racing you've got to be flexible, and that means you have to be able to vary not just speed, but cadence when necessary. Sounds like you should think about going to a conventional crankset with a 53 big ring, and maybe change your cassette for one with an 11T top. The best advice, though, is to learn to spin - apart from anything else, it's less stress on the knees and tendons, and you get less of a build up of crud (that's the technical term...) in your muscles. If nothing else, alternating between spinning and mashing gives your muscles a chance to work in different ways, and a change is as good as a rest.
I don't think you should get too despondent after two races - it takes time to get the hang of this game.

No problems, I placed in the middle of the pack in a hilly circuit race 4 weeks ago. Considering I was not familiar with any of the courses (including the TT route) I'm pretty happy with my results. I will actually get to do a TT in July where I have ridden the complete course before, so that will be of benefit to know where the hills are and how long they are.

Just out of curiousity, Eastway82, how many years have you been racing? I see you live in France. How is it over there?

-bikeguy

bikeguy said:

Just out of curiousity, Eastway82, how many years have you been racing? I see you live in France. How is it over there?

-bikeguy

Well, I'm 40 now, and I did my first road race/crit when I was 7... raced national/occasional international level as schoolboy and junior (this was in the UK, by the way), then got lured away by engines. Since then raced motorbikes and cars (and JCBs, mopeds, minimotos, anything really). Always kept an interest in cycling though and a few years ago started to get back to it in a big way. Ended up doing cyclosportives last year, and should have started proper racing again this season, but that's been delayed by a motorcycle crash and a broken left knee. Back on the bike again now and slowly getting back up to fitness.
Racing here in France (I'm in Normandy, not far from the D-day beaches) is pretty serious - lots of involvement, lots of sponsorship, plenty of races to choose from and local clubs are very structured. I'll tell you how fast they are (or how slow I am...) when I get fit enough to line up again! It's mostly road racing and crits here, although there are also several velodromes within a few hours' drive, and after a long time in the doldrums, track racing is going through a bit of renaissance. Very, very few TTs, unlike UK, which is fine by me as I've always hated TTs – I'm a sprinter really, and a reasonable climber (hills, rather than mountains though). The exception is a two-up time trial called the Duo Normand (see www.duonormand.com) - 54k, open to everyone from pros down to first timers. Great event, one of only two similar in europe,and only 15k up the road from me!

Eastway82 said:

Well, I'm 40 now, and I did my first road race/crit when I was 7... raced national/occasional international level as schoolboy and junior (this was in the UK, by the way), then got lured away by engines. Since then raced motorbikes and cars (and JCBs, mopeds, minimotos, anything really). Always kept an interest in cycling though and a few years ago started to get back to it in a big way. Ended up doing cyclosportives last year, and should have started proper racing again this season, but that's been delayed by a motorcycle crash and a broken left knee. Back on the bike again now and slowly getting back up to fitness.
Racing here in France (I'm in Normandy, not far from the D-day beaches) is pretty serious - lots of involvement, lots of sponsorship, plenty of races to choose from and local clubs are very structured. I'll tell you how fast they are (or how slow I am...) when I get fit enough to line up again! It's mostly road racing and crits here, although there are also several velodromes within a few hours' drive, and after a long time in the doldrums, track racing is going through a bit of renaissance. Very, very few TTs, unlike UK, which is fine by me as I've always hated TTs – I'm a sprinter really, and a reasonable climber (hills, rather than mountains though). The exception is a two-up time trial called the Duo Normand (see www.duonormand.com) - 54k, open to everyone from pros down to first timers. Great event, one of only two similar in europe,and only 15k up the road from me!

Looks like you like to race in every shape and form. I'm sure the competition is quite a bit tougher than here - from the looks of that duonormand event it looks like it (along with being more international). A big bonus of joining the club that I ride with here is that I don't need to pay any entry fees for races and some races are completely paid for - we have jerseys with some companies ads on them and get some sponsorship money. Of course the main thing is the training tips and riding advice that you get with a club - I still ride mainly by myself though because few of our club members actually live in the area where the training rides are - and right now it's a bit of a hassle for me to get to these as well.

Most races here in Finland are also crits and RR's but there are a fair number of TT's too. You get points for high placings in RR's and crits, and none really for TT's except a few so I really want to concentrate on road racing. I did my first RR and TT last year (only one rr and 2 TT's) and this year have done 3 RR's and one TT. I still lack staying power, and my TT results are considerably better than my RR results - since the TT's are 20-40 km and the RR's are 80-115 km. I also did pretty well in a 35 km circuit race - again a very short distance.

Looks like you'll pick it up again quickly since you were good as a junior - look forward to hearing about your adventures.

-bikeguy

Well, my first race ever is tomorrow. I ended up getting the last spot given to the waitlisters. I'm racing the Reston Town Center Grand Prix in Virginia. Should be 45 minutes of intense racing around many, many corners. I don't expect to finish but it should be an interesting experience, I'm excited.

PartisanRanger said:

Well, my first race ever is tomorrow. I ended up getting the last spot given to the waitlisters. I'm racing the Reston Town Center Grand Prix in Virginia. Should be 45 minutes of intense racing around many, many corners. I don't expect to finish but it should be an interesting experience, I'm excited.

Great. Remember to suck wheel as much as possible to stay in the race if it's necessary. I myself was afraid to do this during my last race. Good luck, and don't get discouraged if you do get dropped.

-bikeguy

bikeguy said:

Great. Remember to suck wheel as much as possible to stay in the race if it's necessary. I myself was afraid to do this during my last race. Good luck, and don't get discouraged if you do get dropped.

-bikeguy

Well I'm not expecting to stay with the pack for the whole time, but I'm going to try my damnedest to. My strategy is going to be to suck a lot of wheel like you said and stay near the front if at all possible.

Well PartisanRanger, what happened during the race?

-bikeguy

bikeguy said:

Well PartisanRanger, what happened during the race?

-bikeguy

I didn't do very well but it was a fun first racing experience. It was raining cats and dogs during the race which made it interesting, especially since I was racing a 6-turn crit. Luckily, I didn't take a spill (nor did any of the other Cat 5's to my knowledge). I stuck with the leaders for about 2 laps but couldn't hold the pace any longer. For most of the race I worked with a fellow college rider and we kept the pace pretty hot, though we eventually got lapped (the course was only 1.25 kilometers). I ended up 20th out of 25 riders, not a great result but respectable enough for my first go. This has made me excited about racing and I'm eager to do it again whenever practicable.

PartisanRanger said:

I didn't do very well but it was a fun first racing experience. It was raining cats and dogs during the race which made it interesting, especially since I was racing a 6-turn crit. Luckily, I didn't take a spill (nor did any of the other Cat 5's to my knowledge). I stuck with the leaders for about 2 laps but couldn't hold the pace any longer. For most of the race I worked with a fellow college rider and we kept the pace pretty hot, though we eventually got lapped (the course was only 1.25 kilometers). I ended up 20th out of 25 riders, not a great result but respectable enough for my first go. This has made me excited about racing and I'm eager to do it again whenever practicable.

Good way to go and complete the race. Crits with their many turns are very difficult for us beginners. The rain you had added a further layer of difficulty.
I'll be doing another 20 km TT next weekend, so more reports to come

-bikeguy

bikeguy said:

Good way to go and complete the race. Crits with their many turns are very difficult for us beginners. The rain you had added a further layer of difficulty.
I'll be doing another 20 km TT next weekend, so more reports to come

-bikeguy

My TT went lousy. It was hot (31 Celsius), and I changed my position but I rode a lousy race and wimped out at just past the midpoint. It was not my day as I went out of breath for some reason just after the turnaround. I did test TT's for practice and the same thing happens.. I go out of breath pretty easily while my legs feel like they have barely moved.

Just did a RR today, and although my placing was bottom third I was happy because the RR was a 3 lap circuit and had about 10 corners in it and I did just fine in the corners this time.. actually started to pass people on the corners. A guy from our team TT'ed off the front and placed 2nd, while I came in in a mass field sprint.. I was at the back and the road was blocked off I had nowhere to go.. I barely felt tired at the end and had plenty left to sprint with. Everybody got the same time anyway except for the 2 riders who went off the front. Average speed for the very flat 92 km race was 40 kph, but there was a section of road with potholes, bumps and gravel and cracks where we slowed down to 30-35 kph. Couple guys water bottles came right out on this bumpy section.. one almost hit my wheel. All in all a fun race.

-bikeguy

bikeguy said:

My TT went lousy. It was hot (31 Celsius), and I changed my position but I rode a lousy race and wimped out at just past the midpoint. It was not my day as I went out of breath for some reason just after the turnaround. I did test TT's for practice and the same thing happens.. I go out of breath pretty easily while my legs feel like they have barely moved.

Just did a RR today, and although my placing was bottom third I was happy because the RR was a 3 lap circuit and had about 10 corners in it and I did just fine in the corners this time.. actually started to pass people on the corners. A guy from our team TT'ed off the front and placed 2nd, while I came in in a mass field sprint.. I was at the back and the road was blocked off I had nowhere to go.. I barely felt tired at the end and had plenty left to sprint with. Everybody got the same time anyway except for the 2 riders who went off the front. Average speed for the very flat 92 km race was 40 kph, but there was a section of road with potholes, bumps and gravel and cracks where we slowed down to 30-35 kph. Couple guys water bottles came right out on this bumpy section.. one almost hit my wheel. All in all a fun race.

-bikeguy

Nice reports. Sounds like you're improving. Man, that avg. speed for the RR sounds pretty ridiculous, I'm gonna need to pick up my pace if I want to compete with stuff like that. The group ride I've been doing lately averages about 21.5 mph over 40 miles.

bikeguy said:

My TT went lousy. It was hot (31 Celsius), and I changed my position but I rode a lousy race and wimped out at just past the midpoint. It was not my day as I went out of breath for some reason just after the turnaround. I did test TT's for practice and the same thing happens.. I go out of breath pretty easily while my legs feel like they have barely moved.

Just did a RR today, and although my placing was bottom third I was happy because the RR was a 3 lap circuit and had about 10 corners in it and I did just fine in the corners this time.. actually started to pass people on the corners. A guy from our team TT'ed off the front and placed 2nd, while I came in in a mass field sprint.. I was at the back and the road was blocked off I had nowhere to go.. I barely felt tired at the end and had plenty left to sprint with. Everybody got the same time anyway except for the 2 riders who went off the front. Average speed for the very flat 92 km race was 40 kph, but there was a section of road with potholes, bumps and gravel and cracks where we slowed down to 30-35 kph. Couple guys water bottles came right out on this bumpy section.. one almost hit my wheel. All in all a fun race.

-bikeguy

For the TT, sounds like you're just going too hard, too soon, and possibly not warming up properly before the event. Warm-up's really important, and then you need to dose out your effort so you can keep the effort up over most of the distance, then start to go 'into the red' over the last few km. As you get more experience you'll be able to judge your physical state better, and pace yourself more efficiently over the distance.

For the road race, sounds like you learned a lesson - if you want to be in the sprint, you've got to be up at the front! Since at least half the field wants the same thing, you've got to be aggressive, and not allow yourself to get boxed in or pushed around.

Eastway82 said:

For the TT, sounds like you're just going too hard, too soon, and possibly not warming up properly before the event. Warm-up's really important, and then you need to dose out your effort so you can keep the effort up over most of the distance, then start to go 'into the red' over the last few km. As you get more experience you'll be able to judge your physical state better, and pace yourself more efficiently over the distance.
.

I actually think I have a problem with the TT position - I never really train in it. I could have gone faster by going to the handlebar tops once I got out of breath, or running a higher gear (will need to get a 54 chainring installed), I went out of breath at the midpoint down a hill and it always happens when my rpm's go above 95 - I usually ride around 75 and going fast down a hill tires me out. Not at a single point in time do my legs feel fatigued during any of the TT's I've done, Ijust start rasping for air.

Eastway82 said:

For the road race, sounds like you learned a lesson - if you want to be in the sprint, you've got to be up at the front! Since at least half the field wants the same thing, you've got to be aggressive, and not allow yourself to get boxed in or pushed around.

I agree. The road was quite narrow near the finish. I had my chance when the pack slowed down to like 30 kph about 2.5 km out, but my plan was to go with about 200 m to go and I stuck to it. Not a good choice. The road was completely blocked off, I should have gone a km out, or moved up near the front by the time I was 200 m away from the finish. It was a mess less than a kilometer out with a lot of weaving and erratic maneuvers. Unfortunately,. I am not willing to take big risks because I cannot afford to damage the equipment I am currently using, so it looks like my new plan is to TT away while still several kilometers away from the finish.

Another thing - I changed to the handlebar tops for most of my riding and found it so much easier than riding in the drops - even accelerating out of corners! Aero doesn't matter so much in the pack - but I get more power being more upright.

Partisanranger, you're club ride is at a good speed although you might want to increase the distance a bit. Riding in the pack is actually pretty easy, it's when somebody attacks or accelerating out of corners when it's difficult. I actually think doing 1,5, 10 km or 20 km solo hard efforts is great training for road races. Then just do 1 or 2 long rides a week for endurance.

-bikeguy