General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

race report: NY Marathon

Started by Donovan Rebbechi · · Last activity · 42 posts · 826 views

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
8 November 2004
Last activity
15 November 2004
Original author
Donovan Rebbechi
Posts
42
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
826
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–20 of 42
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. Well, already described some of it but here's the full story.

    Nervous before the race as expected, but I had my act together, and everything
    was ready.

    Well, almost everything. The night before the race, I discovered NYRRC didn't
    print my bus pass on my bib. And they'd taken the only proof I had, my
    registration card, that I'd ordered the bus pass at the expo. So I was in a
    spot of bother. Emailed my teammates. Fortunately, one of them -- the guy I
    was planning to run with, had space in the car (he'd ordered car service).

    So got up at 4:10 AM, had 2 bagels, yogurt, fruit juice for breakfast. Headed
    uptown to catch the car. Dropped off my baggage as quickly as possible and
    took water and gels up to 1hr before the race, then lined up at the front
    thanks to my team start. A number of us emptied our bladders off the side of
    the road near the start. Then the start came.

    The start was a little fast, but hit the 2 mile mark in 13:10 -- not bad
    considering a 6:40 pace game plan. For the first half, I was just jogging,
    chatting with my teammate, and waving at the crowd -- "come on, Brooklyn,
    let's make some noise!". And giving them the thumbs up when they yelled "go
    GNY". Also had some teammates out there watching, making a hell of a racket.

    Then we hit the halfway. I noticed a lot of people were dropping off already,
    and realised I had to do some passing to stay on pace. I was on pace till mile
    20. One of those miles was awfully fast, not sure if I just ran it too fast
    or if the split was off.

    At mile 20, the brakes came on hard -- between mile 20 and 22, I slowed to
    about a 7:30 pace, and the last 10k took about 45:30. A lot of people were
    struggling, some people were walking. At mile 23, I heard Bob yelling that I
    only had 2 minutes or so in the bank and I'd need to push hard to get the sub
    3. So I focused on getting to the finish and nailing the sub 3. The part where
    we run along the bottom of the park at 59th street, mile 26, seemed to last
    forever. There were huge crowds but I couldn't hear them. I just kept looking
    at my watch, and telling myself it was almost over.

    Then somehow I got to the finish in 2:58. After that, it was really hard to
    walk. I took several gatorades and 2 bottles of water at the finish (though
    I'd hydrated pretty well in the race). The medics approached me (because I
    was walking so slowly) and escorted me to the baggage area. I wanted to hang
    around and wait for the teammates but was afraid I'd pass out if I stood
    still. Once I got to the baggage, I tried to stretch. Stretching quads made
    my hamstrings cramp, stretching hamstrings made my quads and hip flexors
    cramp. I worked out that I could stretch my calves without anything cramping,
    so did that and left the rest till later.

    Well, after all that, I still got to score for the team, so while I'm not one
    of the super-duper sub 2:50 crowd just yet, I made the sub 3 hall of fame and
    scored in my first race. So I'm pleased with the outcome.

    Thoughts about this ?

    (*) I really was expecting negative splits with that start. I suppose given
    my experience, I'd advise any beginner to do what I did -- go out 10 seconds
    per mile slower than "predicted" time. That doesn't mean that you won't crash
    and burn, but it increases your chances of finishing.

    (*) I'm still glad that I was just thinking of having a good race, and not
    overly focused on running "the perfect race". Because you probably won't run
    your perfect race the first time.

    (*) Like Global, I wouldn't wear racing flats again. I think if you spend a
    couple of seconds per mile of your speed, the extra protection that your
    muscles get as a result will probably make you last longer. I'd almost
    consider trainers, or at least heavy flats.

    (*) It's interesting to note that the regression formula Anders posted gives
    a huge weight to prior marathon experience, even when training milage is taken
    into account. This is consistent with my observations -- the runners who did
    well were the people with a few years of serious training behind them. For
    example, I was beaten by two of our top female competitors, even though my
    half marathon time is faster -- and the contrast between half marathon and
    marathon performances was quite striking. They did about 8 minutes better
    against me than you'd expect based on half marathon times.

    I suppose this is consistent with what Doug is always saying about the
    importance of having a few solid years of training exerience. Not only can't
    you "fake" training milage when you're running a marathon, it also seems that
    you can't fake experience.

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi
    http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

  2. Donovan Rebbechi <[email hidden]> wrote:
    ....

    Quoted message said:

    Then somehow I got to the finish in 2:58.

    Congrats on the race, Donovan.
    Great time.

    Forgive me if I missed it, but was it the
    heat that made the second half difficult?

    jobs

  3. Donovan Rebbechi <[email hidden]> wrote:
    ....

    Quoted message said:

    Then somehow I got to the finish in 2:58.

    Congrats on the race, Donovan.
    Great time.

    Forgive me if I missed it, but was it the
    heat that made the second half difficult?

    jobs

  4. "Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Well, already described some of it but here's the full story.


    <snip>

    Enjoyed the report Donovan although it could have down with a bit more blood
    and gore. You should take a leaf out of Lance's book. ;-)

    ..>

    Quoted message said:

    Well, after all that, I still got to score for the team, so while I'm not


    one

    Quoted message said:

    of the super-duper sub 2:50 crowd just yet, I made the sub 3 hall of fame


    and

    Quoted message said:

    scored in my first race. So I'm pleased with the outcome.

    Not too shabby for a first marathon. If I ever make sub-3, I suspect it
    will by my *last* marathon.

    Tim

  5. Leafing through rec.running, I read Donovan Rebbechi's message of 08 Nov
    2004:

    Quoted message said:

    Well, already described some of it but here's the full story.

    Congrats again. Thanks for the report. Now that you have your first 'thon
    under your belt, what's your plan? Attacking the WAVA table on some shorter
    races?

    Phil M.

    --
    "What counts in battle is what you do once the pain sets in." -John Short,
    South African coach.

  6. Phil M. said:

    Leafing through rec.running, I read Donovan Rebbechi's message of 08 Nov
    2004:

    Quoted message said:

    Well, already described some of it but here's the full story.

    Congrats again. Thanks for the report. Now that you have your first 'thon
    under your belt, what's your plan? Attacking the WAVA table on some shorter
    races?

    Yeah, something like that. 10k race in December, indoor track and some short
    races in Jan-Feb.

    Anything, as long as it's not a marathon!

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi
    http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

  7. Tim Downie said:


    "Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Well, already described some of it but here's the full story.


    <snip>

    Enjoyed the report Donovan although it could have down with a bit more blood
    and gore. You should take a leaf out of Lance's book. ;-)

    Who knows, maybe one of my toenails will fall off (-; But nothing close to as
    icky as Lances experience.

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi
    http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

  8. Quoted message said:

    Donovan Rebbechi <[email hidden]> wrote:
    ...

    Quoted message said:

    Then somehow I got to the finish in 2:58.

    Congrats on the race, Donovan.
    Great time.

    Forgive me if I missed it, but was it the
    heat that made the second half difficult?

    It's always hard to tell, because the way heat works is that it mysteriously
    sucks the strength out of you. If it's less than 80 degrees, you aren't
    conscious of the heat, but it does have an effect. But I think that was
    probably it.

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi
    http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

  9. Great race, Donovan. Congrats on the sub 3.

    Quoted message said:


    it also seems that
    you can't fake experience.

    The longer the race, the truer this becomes. There's no substitute for
    experience at the crazier distances. <g>

    Mike Tennent
    "IronPenguin"

  10. Great report, thanks. But I'm with Tim - from now on I'll judge all
    marathon reports by the "bloody socks" standard. Seriously, congrats on
    a sub-3hr first marathon - are you glad you did it, after resisting so
    hard? And are you planning on doing another now you've a PR to beat?
    --
    Mel Rimmer

  11. Mel Rimmer said:

    Great report, thanks. But I'm with Tim - from now on I'll judge all
    marathon reports by the "bloody socks" standard. Seriously, congrats on
    a sub-3hr first marathon - are you glad you did it, after resisting so
    hard?

    Yep. I think I resisted long enough that I was reasonably well prepared. I
    didn't make the 2:50 "theoretical" time, but I didn't do badly either.

    Quoted message said:

    And are you planning on doing another now you've a PR to beat?

    I'm sore from tip to toe, so the last thing on my mind is doing another. But
    I'm not ruling it out either. A fall marathon in 2005 is a possibility.

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi
    http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

  12. Donovan Rebbechi said:


    Yep. I think I resisted long enough that I was reasonably well prepared. I
    didn't make the 2:50 "theoretical" time, but I didn't do badly either.

    To be honest, I think you did very well. I was a little worried before
    hand that you might not break 3 hours- figured that would be fairly
    important- but you happily proved me wrong.

    -J

  13. jogger said:
    Donovan Rebbechi said:


    Yep. I think I resisted long enough that I was reasonably well prepared. I
    didn't make the 2:50 "theoretical" time, but I didn't do badly either.

    To be honest, I think you did very well. I was a little worried before
    hand that you might not break 3 hours- figured that would be fairly
    important- but you happily proved me wrong.

    It was a tough day. The teammate who ran with me missed the 3hr mark by 4
    seconds due to cramping. I'm starting to think that the marathon is race where
    nothing can be taken for granted.

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi
    http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

  14. Donovan Rebbechi wrote in message ...

    Quoted message said:


    At mile 20, the brakes came on hard -- between mile 20 and 22, I slowed to
    about a 7:30 pace, and the last 10k took about 45:30. A lot of people were
    struggling, some people were walking. At mile 23, I heard Bob yelling that


    I

    Quoted message said:

    only had 2 minutes or so in the bank and I'd need to push hard to get the


    sub

    Quoted message said:

    3. So I focused on getting to the finish and nailing the sub 3. The part


    where

    Quoted message said:

    we run along the bottom of the park at 59th street, mile 26, seemed to last
    forever. There were huge crowds but I couldn't hear them. I just kept


    looking

    Quoted message said:

    at my watch, and telling myself it was almost over.

    The wall, the agony, tunnel vision - nice to see you're human 🙂

    Quoted message said:

    Then somehow I got to the finish in 2:58. After that, it was really hard to
    walk. I took several gatorades and 2 bottles of water at the finish (though
    I'd hydrated pretty well in the race). The medics approached me (because I
    was walking so slowly) and escorted me to the baggage area. I wanted to


    hang

    Quoted message said:

    around and wait for the teammates but was afraid I'd pass out if I stood
    still. Once I got to the baggage, I tried to stretch. Stretching quads made
    my hamstrings cramp, stretching hamstrings made my quads and hip flexors
    cramp. I worked out that I could stretch my calves without anything


    cramping,

    Quoted message said:

    so did that and left the rest till later.

    After an all-out long race effort stretching doesn't seem to work at all for
    me, even if I'm not cramping. Better just to keep walking around slowly
    drinking/eating etc. for a while.

    Quoted message said:

    Well, after all that, I still got to score for the team, so while I'm not


    one

    Quoted message said:

    of the super-duper sub 2:50 crowd just yet, I made the sub 3 hall of fame


    and

    Quoted message said:

    scored in my first race. So I'm pleased with the outcome.

    Considering the unseasonably "hot" day, yours is a very respectable finish.
    Sounds like they were dropping like flies down there. I was running in the
    afternoon about 20 miles north of the city and the 25 knot breeze made it a
    great day for running.

    Quoted message said:

    (*) I'm still glad that I was just thinking of having a good race, and not
    overly focused on running "the perfect race". Because you probably won't


    run

    Quoted message said:

    your perfect race the first time.

    In orienteering, the perfect race is when you never get lost, make good
    route choices, never take a bad line into or out of a control checkpoint,
    and of course gague your effort well. In road racing the perfect race is...
    Setting the perfect pace and getting a PR?

    It's interesting to contemplate what makes a particular race or run special
    to us. For me certain non-race runs stand out as much as any of the races
    I've done. The 31 minute PR of my local mountain road loop; the 26 minute
    PR of the local hiking trail; the long training loop I did in the catskills
    this summer.

    Quoted message said:

    (*) Like Global, I wouldn't wear racing flats again. I think if you spend a
    couple of seconds per mile of your speed, the extra protection that your
    muscles get as a result will probably make you last longer. I'd almost
    consider trainers, or at least heavy flats.

    Could be one of the reasons you cramped up toward the end? Or did you
    forget your Succeed caps 🙂

    Quoted message said:

    I suppose this is consistent with what Doug is always saying about the
    importance of having a few solid years of training exerience. Not only


    can't

    Quoted message said:

    you "fake" training milage when you're running a marathon, it also seems


    that

    Quoted message said:

    you can't fake experience.

    Seems you're well on your way to getting that experience, good race Donovan.

    -Tony

  15. "Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Tim Downie said:


    "Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Well, already described some of it but here's the full story.


    <snip>

    Enjoyed the report Donovan although it could have down with a bit
    more blood
    and gore. You should take a leaf out of Lance's book. ;-)

    Who knows, maybe one of my toenails will fall off (-; But nothing
    close to as
    icky as Lances experience.

    This is for Lance but an appropriate slot. Considering the heat Lance,
    are you aware that dehydration is one of the lesser known causes of
    blisters? Were you dehydrated or dehydrating?

    -Doug

  16. "Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Phil M. said:

    Leafing through rec.running, I read Donovan Rebbechi's message of 08
    Nov
    2004:

    Quoted message said:

    Well, already described some of it but here's the full story.

    Congrats again. Thanks for the report. Now that you have your first
    'thon
    under your belt, what's your plan? Attacking the WAVA table on some
    shorter
    races?

    Yeah, something like that. 10k race in December, indoor track and some
    short
    races in Jan-Feb.

    Anything, as long as it's not a marathon!

    I agree and there is a fun trail 50k in March you might want to try. See
    http://www.hatrun.com/

    -DF

  17. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Donovan Rebbechi said:
    Quoted message said:

    At mile 20, the brakes came on hard -- between mile 20 and 22, I slowed to


    about a 7:30 pace, and the last 10k took about 45:30. A lot of people were
    struggling, some people were walking. At mile 23, I heard Bob yelling that I
    only had 2 minutes or so in the bank and I'd need to push hard to get the sub
    3. So I focused on getting to the finish and nailing the sub 3. ...

    I hope you bought Bob a beer or two. I wonder if coming from a lot
    of shorter racing makes the last 10kms harder - not that even the most
    dedicated marathon training makes them easy. Anway congratulations on
    surviving the last kilometres and recording a fast time. Its good to
    have a little room for a PB next marathon.

    Andrew Taylor

  18. Great job, Donovan! Way to work a first marathon, especially in fairly
    tough conditions. Picking it up at the end is quite an accomplishment
    given that you were in the process of fading.

    Brian B

  19. "Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    At mile 20, the brakes came on hard -- between mile 20 and 22, I slowed to
    about a 7:30 pace, and the last 10k took about 45:30. A lot of people were
    struggling, some people were walking. At mile 23, I heard Bob yelling


    that I

    Quoted message said:

    only had 2 minutes or so in the bank and I'd need to push hard to get the


    sub

    Quoted message said:

    3. So I focused on getting to the finish and nailing the sub 3. The part


    where

    Quoted message said:

    we run along the bottom of the park at 59th street, mile 26, seemed to


    last

    Quoted message said:

    forever. There were huge crowds but I couldn't hear them. I just kept


    looking

    Quoted message said:

    at my watch, and telling myself it was almost over.

    The last few miles are mind over matter, whether you blow up or not...

    Quoted message said:

    Then somehow I got to the finish in 2:58. After that, it was really hard


    to

    Quoted message said:

    walk. I took several gatorades and 2 bottles of water at the finish


    (though

    Quoted message said:

    I'd hydrated pretty well in the race). The medics approached me (because I
    was walking so slowly) and escorted me to the baggage area. I wanted to


    hang

    Quoted message said:

    around and wait for the teammates but was afraid I'd pass out if I stood
    still. Once I got to the baggage, I tried to stretch. Stretching quads


    made

    Quoted message said:

    my hamstrings cramp, stretching hamstrings made my quads and hip flexors
    cramp. I worked out that I could stretch my calves without anything


    cramping,

    Quoted message said:

    so did that and left the rest till later.

    I'd say you were very dehydrated (and therefore low on sodium, too). You
    downed about 3 lbs of water like that at the finish. Rotating cramps are a
    sure sign of that in me. That's where your predicted performance went,
    'cause you were well trained and didn't go out *too* fast. Problem with
    dehydration is that you get low on salt, which prevents your stomach from
    emptying quickly, which makes you queasy, which makes you not want to
    drink...you get the picture. You've no doubt heard Doug and I go on
    endlessly about salt, so I'll stop right there.

    Also, mild hyponatremia causes mental fog.

    Quoted message said:

    Well, after all that, I still got to score for the team, so while I'm not


    one

    Quoted message said:

    of the super-duper sub 2:50 crowd just yet, I made the sub 3 hall of fame


    and

    Quoted message said:

    scored in my first race. So I'm pleased with the outcome.

    Sub 3 on your first is a definite notch. Congratulations! In my first
    marathon, the last 10k took me about an hour!

    Quoted message said:

    (*) Like Global, I wouldn't wear racing flats again. I think if you spend


    a

    Quoted message said:

    couple of seconds per mile of your speed, the extra protection that your
    muscles get as a result will probably make you last longer. I'd almost
    consider trainers, or at least heavy flats.

    Try it and see. I always *felt* quicker in light shoes. You can find
    racers with good cushioning.

    Quoted message said:

    (*) It's interesting to note that the regression formula Anders posted


    gives

    Quoted message said:

    a huge weight to prior marathon experience, even when training milage is


    taken

    Quoted message said:

    into account. This is consistent with my observations -- the runners who


    did

    Quoted message said:

    well were the people with a few years of serious training behind them. For
    example, I was beaten by two of our top female competitors, even though my
    half marathon time is faster -- and the contrast between half marathon and
    marathon performances was quite striking.

    Women have a different decay in their performance curve -- if you only beat
    a gal by a minute in a 1/2 m, she's gonna kick your butt in a
    marathon....Paula has about a 30 flat 10k, which predicts a 2:20 marathon
    for a male, but she can do 2:15. Most 2:15 guys can knock off a 29 flat
    10k.

    Quoted message said:

    I suppose this is consistent with what Doug is always saying about the
    importance of having a few solid years of training exerience. Not only


    can't

    Quoted message said:

    you "fake" training milage when you're running a marathon, it also seems


    that

    Quoted message said:

    you can't fake experience.

    How long have you been training > 40 mpw?

    Regards and congrats,

    Dan

  20. Donovan - Congrats on the race - sub-3 on your first attempt. Nice report
    also.

    How did you manage drinking and carb intake during the
    race?

    Anthony.

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.