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Race Report: Lancer 5k

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
25 March 2004
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26 March 2004
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Mike R
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  1. Race Report: Lancer 5k
    3.21.04 La Salle High School, Cincinnati, OH

    Ah, the first day of spring in Cincinnati. Birds chirping, a
    light flurry of snow, 20 degrees with the wind chill! The
    race was less than a 5-minute walk from my house and it
    included a kids fun run afterwards. My 6 year old loves
    those. How could I pass this up? I am 12 weeks into a
    marathon training program and decided to have another go at
    that 20-minute barrier in the 5k.

    My last two 5k races in Nov. and Dec. resulted in 20:08 and
    20:24 times. Donovan was encouraging in his assessment of my
    performance then: "Congrats on your PR. I think with a more
    cautious start, you could break 20."

    Well, the start was not so cautious but the results were
    surprising nonetheless:

    The race began in the school parking lot not far from the
    4-lane road that fronted the school. A line of traffic cones
    provided one lane on the far side for our course. A police
    officer was ready to stop traffic and allow the field to
    cross the 3 other lanes. A quick scan of the competition
    revealed about 50% high school kids and most of them
    appeared to be affiliated with a track team. The rest were
    Moms and Dads as well as some seasoned older runners. This
    was a benefit race for spinal cord research and financial
    assistance for need students.

    It was less than 50 feet to the left turn onto the main road
    from the parking lot and so I positioned myself on the
    extreme left side and allowed the field to fill in around
    me. At 9:06am the starter began his countdown from 10 and
    then fired his starter's pistol. We were all anxious to get
    started mostly to keep warm. Because of the immediate left
    turn, there was some minor elbow banging and the field of
    about 150 poured onto the course.

    Given my position, within 30 seconds I was one of about 10
    at the front of the pack. This was my neighborhood and I was
    familiar with the roads. Most of the first mile was a slight
    downhill. A group of 3 high schoolers pulled away within the
    first half mile. I hung with 4 others simply by virtue of a
    similar pace.

    The course turned off of the main road and into the
    neighborhood streets. There were two quick right turns and
    then the 1-mile marker appeared around a bend. My first spit
    was 6:10 - 2 seconds faster than the first split in my best
    previous 5k. The next half-mile was a slightly steeper
    downhill and I allowed myself to stride out and pick up some
    speed. I passed a runner and, like those ahead of me,
    declined the water being offered at top of the hill. The
    volunteers seemed confused at our refusal. I don't think
    taking on water during a 5k is necessary (especially in sub-
    freezing temperatures).

    I was now running with 3 others and approached a slight
    uphill before another right turn. One of the runners peeled
    off to a side street with new housing under construction. I
    was not sure what he was doing until I saw him heading for a
    port-a-potty that was nearby. Bad luck or poor choice of
    breakfast? The one individual still in sight ahead of me
    looked to be in his 30's.

    I decided that if I could get past him, I might win my age
    group. I pushed the pace to close in on him as we
    encountered the 2-mile marker. The time was being called out
    as we neared and I was somewhat dumbstruck: "
    3:21.1:1. my split was 5:53 (12:03)!

    I must have really flown on the down hills! This concerned
    me since this looping course was going to have to start
    heading uphill soon, which it did, but at a very gradual
    incline. I was still hanging with my chosen nemesis and
    remained within 20' of him all the way back to the school
    parking lot.

    The finish was well considered. The course led to the
    football stadium/track at the rear of the school. We entered
    the track at the beginning of a straightaway and continued ¾
    of the way around to the finish chute set up at the end of
    the opposite straightaway.

    At some point, someone must have radioed my number up to the
    announcer because there were people calling out my name from
    the stands that I did not know. The 3-mile marker was mid-
    arc of the turn and was unmanned so I never saw it. The
    announcer called out 17:40 over the PA system as I came
    around the bend. I was no longer conscious of the position
    of the guy I had been chasing for almost 2 miles and I had
    no "kick" this time but was still able to finish strong.

    My wife and kids braved the cold to greet me at the finish.
    My "official" time was 18:14 although I thought I was seeing
    18:20 as I entered the chute. The actual finish line must
    have been further from the chute than I had thought.

    Splits:
    4:10
    4:1 (1:1)
    4:1 (1:2):33 (18:14)

    We made our way to the band room to get out of the cold and
    to await the results. Powerade, Bagels and bananas were a
    welcome sight. I ended up placing 5th overall and 2nd in my
    age group. The overall winner finished around 15:30 and the
    winner of my age group finished in 16 minutes and change so
    apparently I wasn't chasing the right guy. I had every
    intention of doing as well as I could but never envisioned
    skipping over the 19-minute barrier.

    Looking back, at the time of my 20:08 performance, I had
    just finished a triathlon the week before that included a
    10k but was still averaging less than 20 miles per week. I
    am now up to mid 30's per week as I train for my second
    marathon. My goal this year is to knock off 20 minutes and
    qualify for Boston. Oh, and I guess now I'll be shooting for
    a sub-18 5k ;-)

    Regards,

    Mike

  2. Congrats Mike on the great race - a nice big improvement,
    and always a bonus when your time is a lot faster than
    you expected.

    Good luck with the training.

    Anthony.

  3. Mike R said:

    Race Report: Lancer 5k
    3.21.04 La Salle High School, Cincinnati, OH


    [...]

    Mike, I really really really want to share in your joy as
    it's not so long ago that I ran my first sub-20 minute 5K
    and it meant an awful lot to me. Believe me, I do.

    *But*, (and you knew this was coming), the last time I made
    an unexpected and big improvement of this magnitude, the
    course was short. I sincerely hope that this isn't the case
    for you but if I were you, I'd be asking around a bit and
    seeing how many other runners ran PBs that day.

    Big improvements do sometimes happen but that is a *big*
    improvement over a relatively short space of time. Race
    courses being inaccurately measured aren't rare enough for
    my liking.

    If this is the same course that you ran back in November and
    December, then ignore all the above and accept my heartiest
    congratulations!

    Tim

    --
    Remove the obvious to reply by email. Please support
    rheumatoid arthritis research! Visit
    justgiving.comspeyside or
    justgiving.comspeyside if you're a UK tax payer.

  4. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Mike, I really really really want to share in your joy
    as it's not so long


    ago that I ran my first sub-20 minute 5K and it meant an
    awful lot to me. Believe me, I do.

    *But*, (and you knew this was coming), the last time I made
    an unexpected and big improvement of this magnitude, the
    course was short. I sincerely hope that this isn't the case
    for you but if I were you, I'd be asking around a bit and
    seeing how many other runners ran PBs that day. <<

    This was my first thought, too, but I think you
    should also consider that even if the course was
    short, a time difference of 1:54 would equate to the
    course being over a quarter of a mile short. So while
    it may be a slightly bogus time, there's little doubt
    in my mind that it would have been a PR even on an
    accurately-measured course (assuming this one
    wasn't). See how it goes and if you don't come close
    to this for, say, the rest of the year then throw it
    out. But I'd be surprised if you didn't have some
    other sub-20's by then.

    Mike

  5. Wow, Mike, great run! And exciting too, chasing the guy
    ahead of you. Even if the course was short (as others have
    suggested) it was still clearly a big PR effort. Way to go!

    --
    Brian P. Baresch Fort Worth, Texas, USA Professional editing
    and proofreading

    If you're going through hell, keep going. --Winston
    Churchill

  6. Sometimes race directors charge you $40 for a race and then
    don't even bother to make sure the course is measured
    accurately. That is what happened to me a number of years
    ago when I won a race in world record time and the race
    directors then figured out that their measurements must
    have been off.

    One way to tell is by your splits. I don't think you gave
    us all your splits. If you maintained that 6:10 mile pace
    then you would have been around 19 minutes for the 5K so
    you may have actually ran that training pace time.

    It's not impossible to make big jumps when you are
    running at this slow a pace. It requires building enough
    endurance and then backing it up with some speed work
    right before the race.

    You are not running faster because you can't run faster.
    You are not running faster because you don't know how to
    train to be able to run faster. Get some serious coaching
    from a coach who will set your goals much higher.

  7. Mike R said:

    Race Report: Lancer 5k
    3.21.04 La Salle High School, Cincinnati, OH

    Ah, the first day of spring in Cincinnati. Birds chirping,
    a light flurry of snow, 20 degrees with the wind chill!
    The race was less than a 5-minute walk from my house and
    it included a kids fun run afterwards. My 6 year old loves
    those. How could I pass this up? I am 12 weeks into a
    marathon training program and decided to have another go
    at that 20-minute barrier in the 5k.

    My last two 5k races in Nov. and Dec. resulted in 20:08
    and 20:24 times. Donovan was encouraging in his assessment
    of my performance then: "Congrats on your PR. I think with
    a more cautious start, you could break 20."

    Well, the start was not so cautious but the results were
    surprising nonetheless:

    The race began in the school parking lot not far from the
    4-lane road that fronted the school. A line of traffic
    cones provided one lane on the far side for our course. A
    police officer was ready to stop traffic and allow the
    field to cross the 3 other lanes. A quick scan of the
    competition revealed about 50% high school kids and most
    of them appeared to be affiliated with a track team. The
    rest were Moms and Dads as well as some seasoned older
    runners. This was a benefit race for spinal cord research
    and financial assistance for need students.

    It was less than 50 feet to the left turn onto the main
    road from the parking lot and so I positioned myself on
    the extreme left side and allowed the field to fill in
    around me. At 9:06am the starter began his countdown from
    10 and then fired his starter's pistol. We were all
    anxious to get started mostly to keep warm. Because of the
    immediate left turn, there was some minor elbow banging
    and the field of about 150 poured onto the course.

    Given my position, within 30 seconds I was one of about 10
    at the front of the pack. This was my neighborhood and I
    was familiar with the roads. Most of the first mile was a
    slight downhill. A group of 3 high schoolers pulled away
    within the first half mile. I hung with 4 others simply by
    virtue of a similar pace.

    The course turned off of the main road and into the
    neighborhood streets. There were two quick right turns and
    then the 1-mile marker appeared around a bend. My first
    spit was 6:10 - 2 seconds faster than the first split in
    my best previous 5k. The next half-mile was a slightly
    steeper downhill and I allowed myself to stride out and
    pick up some speed. I passed a runner and, like those
    ahead of me, declined the water being offered at top of
    the hill. The volunteers seemed confused at our refusal. I
    don't think taking on water during a 5k is necessary
    (especially in sub-freezing temperatures).

    I was now running with 3 others and approached a slight
    uphill before another right turn. One of the runners
    peeled off to a side street with new housing under
    construction. I was not sure what he was doing until I saw
    him heading for a port-a-potty that was nearby. Bad luck
    or poor choice of breakfast? The one individual still in
    sight ahead of me looked to be in his 30's.

    I decided that if I could get past him, I might win my age
    group. I pushed the pace to close in on him as we
    encountered the 2-mile marker. The time was being called
    out as we neared and I was somewhat dumbstruck: "
    11:59.12:00. my split was 5:53 (12:03)!

    I must have really flown on the down hills! This concerned
    me since this looping course was going to have to start
    heading uphill soon, which it did, but at a very gradual
    incline. I was still hanging with my chosen nemesis and
    remained within 20' of him all the way back to the school
    parking lot.

    The finish was well considered. The course led to the
    football stadium/track at the rear of the school. We
    entered the track at the beginning of a straightaway and
    continued ¾ of the way around to the finish chute set up
    at the end of the opposite straightaway.

    At some point, someone must have radioed my number up to
    the announcer because there were people calling out my
    name from the stands that I did not know. The 3-mile
    marker was mid-arc of the turn and was unmanned so I never
    saw it. The announcer called out 17:40 over the PA system
    as I came around the bend. I was no longer conscious of
    the position of the guy I had been chasing for almost 2
    miles and I had no "kick" this time but was still able to
    finish strong.

    My wife and kids braved the cold to greet me at the
    finish. My "official" time was 18:14 although I thought I
    was seeing 18:20 as I entered the chute. The actual finish
    line must have been further from the chute than I had
    thought.

    Splits:
    6:10
    5:53 (12:03)
    5:38 (17:41):33 (18:14)

    We made our way to the band room to get out of the cold
    and to await the results. Powerade, Bagels and bananas
    were a welcome sight. I ended up placing 5th overall and
    2nd in my age group. The overall winner finished around
    15:30 and the winner of my age group finished in 16
    minutes and change so apparently I wasn't chasing the
    right guy. I had every intention of doing as well as I
    could but never envisioned skipping over the 19-minute
    barrier.

    Looking back, at the time of my 20:08 performance, I had
    just finished a triathlon the week before that included a
    10k but was still averaging less than 20 miles per week. I
    am now up to mid 30's per week as I train for my second
    marathon. My goal this year is to knock off 20 minutes and
    qualify for Boston. Oh, and I guess now I'll be shooting
    for a sub-18 5k ;-)

    Regards,

    Mike

    freefall 5k?

  8. "Tim Downie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Mike R said:

    Race Report: Lancer 5k
    3.21.04 La Salle High School, Cincinnati, OH


    [...]

    Mike, I really really really want to share in your joy as
    it's not so long ago that I ran my first sub-20 minute 5K
    and it meant an awful lot to me. Believe me, I do.

    *But*, (and you knew this was coming), the last time I
    made an unexpected and big improvement of this magnitude,
    the course was short. I sincerely hope that this isn't the
    case for you but if I were you, I'd be asking around a bit
    and seeing how many other runners ran PBs that day.

    Big improvements do sometimes happen but that is a *big*
    improvement over


    a

    Quoted message said:

    relatively short space of time. Race courses being
    inaccurately measured aren't rare enough for my liking.

    If this is the same course that you ran back in November
    and December,


    then

    Quoted message said:

    ignore all the above and accept my heartiest
    congratulations!

    Tim

    --
    Remove the obvious to reply by email. Please support
    rheumatoid arthritis research! Visit
    justgiving.comspeyside or
    justgiving.comspeyside if you're a UK
    tax payer.

    Tim,

    I did have my suspicions about the course length. It was not
    USATF certified. Today I was able to trace over the course
    using a CAD system and found it to be 3.02 miles which
    doesn't account for changes in elevation. However, I found
    that a steady drop in elevation of 100' over a mile only
    amounts to a difference of 1 foot in length. I may try to
    get my hands on one of those surveyor's wheels and walk the
    course to get a true measurement. If it weren't just down
    the street, I wouldn't even consider
    it.

    A 3.02 mile course would have resulted in an average pace of
    6:02 (vs. 5:52) and an extrapolated 5k finishing time of
    18:42; still a vast improvement over my previous PR. The
    results were posted today. My finishing time had been
    adjusted to 18:18.4 (not sure how they got that accurate)
    and the field of 90 had 53 participants that were age 20 and
    under. At 37 and having just become a competitive runner in
    the past couple of years, I am very pleased with the results
    as well as my potential for improvement.

    Mike

  9. In article said:

    Mike, I really really really want to share in your joy as
    it's not so long ago that I ran my first sub-20 minute 5K
    and it meant an awful lot to me. Believe me, I do.

    When this happens, the splits usually give the game away,
    because a substantially short course usually also means one
    of the "miles" is short. It can't have been the first,
    probably not the second either (given his third
    mile). Could be mile 3, but if it was more than 100m or so
    short, he would have known he was slowing down.

    So if it was short, I'd bet that it wasn't short by a
    large margin.

    It's possible that it was an easier course than the other
    one he ran on.

    But I think the increase in milage probably had a lot to
    do with it.

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflord

  10. Donovan Rebbechi said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Tim Downie said:

    Mike, I really really really want to share in your joy as
    it's not so long ago that I ran my first sub-20 minute 5K
    and it meant an awful lot to me. Believe me, I do.

    When this happens, the splits usually give the game away,
    because a substantially short course usually also means
    one of the "miles" is short.

    Not so if it was measured with an inaccurate instrument in
    the first place (a car odometer say). Then every split will
    be equally inaccurate.

    Tim

    --
    Remove the obvious to reply by email. Please support
    rheumatoid arthritis research! Visit
    justgiving.comspeyside or
    justgiving.comspeyside if you're a UK tax payer.

  11. Mike R said:

    Tim,

    I did have my suspicions about the course length. It was
    not USATF certified. Today I was able to trace over the
    course using a CAD system and found it to be 3.02 miles
    which doesn't account for changes in elevation.

    Well that's encouraging. A PB for sure!

    Quoted message said:

    However, I found that a steady drop in elevation of
    100' over a mile only amounts to a difference of 1 foot
    in length.

    100ft drop in a 5K? Well that would go some way to
    explaining your time. ;-)

    Quoted message said:

    I may try to get my hands on one of those surveyor's
    wheels and walk the course to get a true measurement. If
    it weren't just down the street, I wouldn't even
    consider it.

    You know, I feel a real heel for even suggesting it because
    the last thing I want to so is spoil your joy at achieving
    such a great PB.

    Quoted message said:


    A 3.02 mile course would have resulted in an average
    pace of 6:02
    (vs. 5:52) and an extrapolated 5k finishing time of 18:42;
    still a vast improvement over my previous PR. The
    results were posted today. My finishing time had been
    adjusted to 18:18.4 (not sure how they got that
    accurate) and the field of 90 had 53 participants
    that were age 20 and under. At 37 and having just
    become a competitive runner in the past couple of
    years, I am very pleased with the results as well as
    my potential for improvement.

    And so you should be. I'm just jealous. ;-)

    Tim
    --
    Remove the obvious to reply by email. Please support
    rheumatoid arthritis research! Visit
    justgiving.comspeyside or
    justgiving.comspeyside if you're a UK tax payer.

  12. In article said:
    Donovan Rebbechi said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Tim Downie said:

    Mike, I really really really want to share in your
    joy as it's not so long ago that I ran my first sub-
    20 minute 5K and it meant an awful lot to me. Believe
    me, I do.

    When this happens, the splits usually give the game away,
    because a substantially short course usually also means
    one of the "miles" is short.

    Not so if it was measured with an inaccurate instrument in
    the first place (a car odometer say). Then every split
    will be equally inaccurate.

    Ouch! Possible I suppose (as much as I'd like to
    believe it isn't)

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflord

  13. In article said:

    Race Report: Lancer 5k
    3.21.04 La Salle High School, Cincinnati, OH

    [snip]

    Well done, excellent race. Looks like you held back enough
    that you didn't die at the end, and your time is no doubt
    well under being as good as a 20min 5k.

    Not being USATF certified casts some doubt on the accuracy
    of the course, but I think it's safe to say that you did
    pretty well. I'd suggest using the estimate provided by your
    cad program for now.

    Just for fun, try typing your adjusted time into a
    predictor like the Daniels predictor
    panix.compredict.html or the wava
    predictor panix.comwava.html to
    see what this means in terms of half marathon and 10k
    goal times.

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflord

  14. WOW! Great race, Mike! I wish I could pull off an
    improvement like that. Big congrats, and don't even try to
    wipe the big grin off your face! ;-)

    Teresa in AZ

    Mike R said:

    Race Report: Lancer 5k
    3.21.04 La Salle High School, Cincinnati, OH

    Ah, the first day of spring in Cincinnati. Birds chirping,
    a light flurry of snow, 20 degrees with the wind chill!
    The race was less than a 5-minute walk from my house and
    it included a kids fun run afterwards. My 6 year old loves
    those. How could I pass this up? I am 12 weeks into a
    marathon training program and decided to have another go
    at that 20-minute barrier in the 5k.

    My last two 5k races in Nov. and Dec. resulted in 20:08
    and 20:24 times. Donovan was encouraging in his assessment
    of my performance then: "Congrats on your PR. I think with
    a more cautious start, you could break 20."

    Well, the start was not so cautious but the results were
    surprising nonetheless:

    The race began in the school parking lot not far from the
    4-lane road that fronted the school. A line of traffic
    cones provided one lane on the far side for our course. A
    police officer was ready to stop traffic and allow the
    field to cross the 3 other lanes. A quick scan of the
    competition revealed about 50% high school kids and most
    of them appeared to be affiliated with a track team. The
    rest were Moms and Dads as well as some seasoned older
    runners. This was a benefit race for spinal cord research
    and financial assistance for need students.

    It was less than 50 feet to the left turn onto the main
    road from the parking lot and so I positioned myself on
    the extreme left side and allowed the field to fill in
    around me. At 9:06am the starter began his countdown from
    10 and then fired his starter's pistol. We were all
    anxious to get started mostly to keep warm. Because of the
    immediate left turn, there was some minor elbow banging
    and the field of about 150 poured onto the course.

    Given my position, within 30 seconds I was one of about 10
    at the front of the pack. This was my neighborhood and I
    was familiar with the roads. Most of the first mile was a
    slight downhill. A group of 3 high schoolers pulled away
    within the first half mile. I hung with 4 others simply by
    virtue of a similar pace.

    The course turned off of the main road and into the
    neighborhood streets. There were two quick right turns and
    then the 1-mile marker appeared around a bend. My first
    spit was 6:10 - 2 seconds faster than the first split in
    my best previous 5k. The next half-mile was a slightly
    steeper downhill and I allowed myself to stride out and
    pick up some speed. I passed a runner and, like those
    ahead of me, declined the water being offered at top of
    the hill. The volunteers seemed confused at our refusal. I
    don't think taking on water during a 5k is necessary
    (especially in sub-freezing temperatures).

    I was now running with 3 others and approached a slight
    uphill before another right turn. One of the runners
    peeled off to a side street with new housing under
    construction. I was not sure what he was doing until I saw
    him heading for a port-a-potty that was nearby. Bad luck
    or poor choice of breakfast? The one individual still in
    sight ahead of me looked to be in his 30's.

    I decided that if I could get past him, I might win my age
    group. I pushed the pace to close in on him as we
    encountered the 2-mile marker. The time was being called
    out as we neared and I was somewhat dumbstruck: "
    11:59.12:00. my split was 5:53 (12:03)!

    I must have really flown on the down hills! This concerned
    me since this looping course was going to have to start
    heading uphill soon, which it did, but at a very gradual
    incline. I was still hanging with my chosen nemesis and
    remained within 20' of him all the way back to the school
    parking lot.

    The finish was well considered. The course led to the
    football stadium/track at the rear of the school. We
    entered the track at the beginning of a straightaway and
    continued ¾ of the way around to the finish chute set up
    at the end of the opposite straightaway.

    At some point, someone must have radioed my number up to
    the announcer because there were people calling out my
    name from the stands that I did not know. The 3-mile
    marker was mid-arc of the turn and was unmanned so I never
    saw it. The announcer called out 17:40 over the PA system
    as I came around the bend. I was no longer conscious of
    the position of the guy I had been chasing for almost 2
    miles and I had no "kick" this time but was still able to
    finish strong.

    My wife and kids braved the cold to greet me at the
    finish. My "official" time was 18:14 although I thought I
    was seeing 18:20 as I entered the chute. The actual finish
    line must have been further from the chute than I had
    thought.

    Splits:
    6:10
    5:53 (12:03)
    5:38 (17:41):33 (18:14)

    We made our way to the band room to get out of the cold
    and to await the results. Powerade, Bagels and bananas
    were a welcome sight. I ended up placing 5th overall and
    2nd in my age group. The overall winner finished around
    15:30 and the winner of my age group finished in 16
    minutes and change so apparently I wasn't chasing the
    right guy. I had every intention of doing as well as I
    could but never envisioned skipping over the 19-minute
    barrier.

    Looking back, at the time of my 20:08 performance, I had
    just finished a triathlon the week before that included a
    10k but was still averaging less than 20 miles per week. I
    am now up to mid 30's per week as I train for my second
    marathon. My goal this year is to knock off 20 minutes and
    qualify for Boston. Oh, and I guess now I'll be shooting
    for a sub-18 5k ;-)

    Regards,

    Mike

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