race non-report

joe positive said:

With a mile to go I decided I wasn't going to walk any more, and I
finished with a chip time of 3:32:42

I've heard it said many times that you don't run Boston for a PR but for
the experience. Seeing your report and your disappointment makes me glad
I wasn't expecting anything, not even finishing.

Quoted message said:

I just felt like I was running down a road where for some reason a lot
of people were screaming, and I wanted to tune it all out so I could
concentrate on the race.

I think that's what you have to do. Tune it out. Maybe even wear
headphones. I saw several people running to music that day, in spite of
the rules.

From following your weekly training reports. I've been inspired by your
determination to overcome your stress fracture with some incredible
taxing alternative training. With all that training you sure looked like
you were either headed for injury or smashing your PR in Boston. So I
understand your disappointment. I'm not sure if your attitude towards the
marathon is because of that or you really dislike it that much.

So now you've done Boston. What's next? Maybe try someting more
misanthropish, such a an ultra with about 100 runners. Seriously, I think
this is where I'm heading.

--
Phil M.

Quoted message said:

but I am too lazy to write another report so it will have to do.>

Well [censored] you lazy [censored], I'm too lazy to bother reading it.

Phil M. said:

From following your weekly training reports. I've been inspired by your
determination to overcome your stress fracture with some incredible
taxing alternative training. With all that training you sure looked like
you were either headed for injury or smashing your PR in Boston.

As it turned out, I did neither. Well, I took a little 3-minute chunk out
of my PR, but certainly didn't smash it. I did come out of it feeling much
better than I did after my other marathon, and I'm really happy about that.

Quoted message said:

So I
understand your disappointment. I'm not sure if your attitude towards the
marathon is because of that or you really dislike it that much.

It's not so much an attitude towards "the marathon" (the distance) as it is
an attitude toward the Boston Marathon, or toward any great big marathon
where the crowd actually impedes your progress, or where the spectacle
means more than the race. Of course, having to run miles and miles trying
not to puke at the smell of someone's barbecue doesn't help the attitude
any :-)

Quoted message said:

So now you've done Boston. What's next? Maybe try someting more
misanthropish, such a an ultra with about 100 runners. Seriously, I think
this is where I'm heading.

Me run an ultra? Are you kidding? I'm going to Baltimore in the fall,
unless I break another bone :-)

Karen
--
live! vicariously!

joe positive said:

It's not so much an attitude towards "the marathon" (the distance) as
it is an attitude toward the Boston Marathon, or toward any great big
marathon where the crowd actually impedes your progress, or where the
spectacle means more than the race.

Then you probably would have hated Chicago. Maybe if you get a better
qualifying time (Baltimore?), you'll have a better chance of getting
closer to the front. But I have the feeling you won't be running Boston
next year.

Quoted message said:

Of course, having to run miles
and miles trying not to puke at the smell of someone's barbecue
doesn't help the attitude any :-)

Yeah, I can see your point there.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So now you've done Boston. What's next? Maybe try someting more
misanthropish, such a an ultra with about 100 runners. Seriously, I
think this is where I'm heading.

Me run an ultra? Are you kidding? I'm going to Baltimore in the
fall, unless I break another bone :-)

Only 4,000 runners last year. Sounds like it would be good for you. A few
years ago I ran a marathon with 1,000 runners. After 10 miles or so, it
can be like running by yourself.

--
Phil M.

Karen: Great job finishing the race when things weren't going well. And
a PR is a PR -- although I know the feeling; I'm fairly sure I was in
shape to run 3-flat on a cool day on a flat course but ended up only
lowering my personal best by 2 minutes and change (came in at 3:11:55
chip; I may type up a report when I get done playing tourist).

Sorry I didn't get to see you in Boston. Another time, maybe.

Thanks for the report! And again, great job.

Brian B

"joe positive" <[email hidden]> wrote

Nice report. Captured the mindless screaming crowded essence of Boston. I
ran it once waaaaay back in '80, where I was trying for sub 2:40 and ended
up in the 80 degree heat limping in to a 3:02 (2000th place!) (an
embarassing time then, but now I'd kill for it).

There were only 5-6k runners, but it was too crowded for me. The 5 mile aid
station was a mob scene, and I hit it at 30 minutes flat!

I enjoyed being cheered on by the gals as I went by Wellsley (sp?), but
everything came off the rails after that.

I never ran a "big" marathon after that bad experience.

I know you can't bear to think about an ultra, but a trail 50k is actually
easier and more fun, and way fewer people, and they're mostly friendly. No
mindless cheering. Quiet conversations at aid stations. Sanity on the
trail. You're a person at the finish line, not a statistic.

Re the stomach thing, if you practice snacking (regular food you like, with
some fat and protein--I swear goos are designed to unsettle the stomach),
and drinking (not just water, but other libations), and add a bit of salt,
the race will not have too many surprises.

-- Dan

joe positive wrote:

Karen, Congratulations on hanging in there and getting a PR, even if it
wasn't what you had hoped for. After all the prep you did, esp. with the
injury, I can understand your disappointment with the crowd and not
being able to really compete.

but the 3rd mile was something like 8 minutes and I

Quoted message said:

lost a whole lotta love for humankind and all their inventions,
particularly the Boston marathon. I began to feel like a circus animal
trotting along for the entertainment of the people lining the road.

That's an interesting description 😉 This is one reason I've never
seriously considered a big city marathon - or any big race with lots of
hoopla.

Quoted message said:

I finished with a chip time of 3:32:42, which was a tiny 3-minute
PR but nowhere near what I'd hoped for. I ran a 12-minute positive split,
and even with the time lost in the john and the gallowalking, that's still
a lot of time.

Hopefully, after a couple days, maybe the spirit of Boston will settle
in - or maybe not.

Quoted message said:

Uphills don't really bother me. Downhills are harder. I missed Heartbreak
Hill, didn't realize where it was until I'd passed it.

Sounds like you got your uphill training in. I'll be the cross-training
you did favored uphill, but not downhill.

Quoted message said:

I can run a marathon in flats after all (though my finishing time suggests
that maybe I shouldn't).

Sunday's sore leg didn't hurt at all during the race, was just the tiniest
bit sore last night, might be gone altogether. In fact I feel much better
than after my other marathon. I'm looking forward to a little 2-mile trot
tomorrow [Wednesday, and I did the little trot and it felt fine].

That's good news!

Quoted message said:

This may be heresy, but I really didn't enjoy all those things that make
Boston Boston. This seemed less a race to me than a spectacle.

I think I've heard this a few times.

Now you've got "Boston" out of the way. Now show them what you can
really do at Baltimore. Good luck.

Dot

--
"Dream Big, and dare to fail." --- Norman Vaughn
who was with Byrd in Antarctica and whose 99th birthday was Dec 19, 2004

"joe positive" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I started in the 11th corral, though I was hoping for a much faster
time
than that indicated (ah, hubris). It took over 9 minutes to cross the
start
line. We walked pretty much the whole way but once we crossed I found
myself running shoulder to shoulder with people who were running, as
someone else very nicely put it, "at a pace a good bit slower than
their
qualifying pace." The first couple of miles were slower than I'd have
liked
but still acceptable, but the 3rd mile was something like 8 minutes
and I
lost a whole lotta love for humankind and all their inventions,
particularly the Boston marathon. I began to feel like a circus animal
trotting along for the entertainment of the people lining the road.

A old running friend and I were reminiscing about Boston. he ran them
when the numbers were a few hundred up to 4-5K, When I started running
it the numbers crept up to about 8-9k. From the 3:0n corral I could get
on pace by mile two and be the master of my own fate. We kind of
concluded the 10k is about the max that narrow roads Hopkinton can
handle before it ceases to be a race and becomes a circus.

The fact that they allow 20,000 suggests a different motivation for
hosting this race. Sure it still has the lure and the numbers will
likely hold up for years to come but I wonder if those numbers are
repeats or just those that wander in and then move off.

Quoted message said:

After that I never really gained back full momentum, either physically
or
mentally. I was nauseated by the food smells from the roadside
partiers.

And there are some very gross smelling food be cooked. Even when having
a good race I'd truy to run to the other side to avoid the greasy
smelling stink. You also learm real fast to get to the left side of the
road at Wellesey else lose your ear drums.

Quoted message said:

I ran a 12-minute positive split,
and even with the time lost in the john and the gallowalking, that's
still
a lot of time.

Very, very few don't run a positive split. The first 15 is level and
down, The second half has the Newton hills and unless your in the Kenyan
class you can't help but lose lose time.

Quoted message said:

This may be heresy, but I really didn't enjoy all those things that
make
Boston Boston. This seemed less a race to me than a spectacle. The
race,
and especially the start, is too crowded for me (granted I am a
misanthrope).

Your one of many.

You run next to Tess for a few miles and all you hear is "go

Quoted message said:

Tess go Tess go Tess you can do it Tess" until you switch to the other
side
of the road to hear "go 3462 go 3462 go 3462 you can do it" for
another few
miles. I ran past Bridget sometime in the last few miles, and seeing
someone I knew lifted my spirits some, but for the most part I just
felt
like I was running down a road where for some reason a lot of people
were
screaming, and I wanted to tune it all out so I could concentrate on
the
race. Alas.

Amen! I ran once next to girl dressed as a cowgirl. At first the
wisecracks were funny but it soon got old. In the same line I often
suggest people not wear anything on their shirts. When you having a good
day it works out fine and may give you a lift. When you're not having a
good day, the echo's of "Betty, out getting laid last night," or "stop
in for love injection" or "John you suck get moving you so-n-so." Stay
incognito to avoid the personal affront. When you running down college
row and the boys have been hoisting beer all day in the hot sun, they
get feisty and mean.

-DF

"Dan Stumpus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I know you can't bear to think about an ultra, but a trail 50k is
actually

easier and more fun, and way fewer people, and they're mostly
friendly. No mindless cheering. Quiet conversations at aid stations.
Sanity on the trail. You're a person at the finish line, not a
statistic.

Dan, stop the advertising before we end up with a few thousand at our
favorite race. 😉

Quoted message said:

Re the stomach thing, if you practice snacking (regular food you like,
with some fat and protein--I swear goos are designed to unsettle the
stomach),

And you have to be real careful to take enough water with them or the
concentration in you stomach is too strong and absorption is slowed or
stopped.

Quoted message said:

and drinking (not just water, but other libations), and add a bit of
salt, the race will not have too many surprises.

Salt? Heresy!

-Doug

Congratulations Karen, sounds like a nightmare that you woke up from feeling
ok with a 3 min PR. Why not take that untapped fitness and go for a 10k PR
or something in a few weeks.

Being like a corralled circus animal forced to trot along with others, then
taunted and "nauseated by the food smells from the roadside partiers" -
that's what it takes to be part of such a longstanding tradition I guess.

As for the gel... maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it sounds like the whole
experience was somewhat nauseating, not just the gel. Being corralled for
too long can certainly do this to me lol.

Good luck in Baltimore.

-Tony

Quoted message said:

live! vicariously!

That's what I do when reading race reports 🙂

Well, you *still* get a big congrats for a gen-u-ine PR! But
sorry your stomach was in an uproar the whole time, that can't
be fun. I'm jealous, though, you still ran a lot faster than I
did even with all that! ;-) Hope you're feeling much better and
the soreness is abating well!

Teresa in AZ

joe positive said:

I'm not much for writing race reports. I enjoy reading other peoples'
reports, but I can't understand how anyone can remember the blow-by-blow
for each mile. I tend to lose my mind in races. Anyway, here are some
things I can remember:

I started in the 11th corral, though I was hoping for a much faster time
than that indicated (ah, hubris). It took over 9 minutes to cross the start
line. We walked pretty much the whole way but once we crossed I found
myself running shoulder to shoulder with people who were running, as
someone else very nicely put it, "at a pace a good bit slower than their
qualifying pace." The first couple of miles were slower than I'd have liked
but still acceptable, but the 3rd mile was something like 8 minutes and I
lost a whole lotta love for humankind and all their inventions,
particularly the Boston marathon. I began to feel like a circus animal
trotting along for the entertainment of the people lining the road.

Things gradually began to thin out and I was able to pick up the pace, and I
turned my attention to the problem of how to take in enough water. It
wasn't that hot but it was very sunny and very dry (to this Floridian), and
I knew I wouldn't be able to handle any calories if I didn't have enough
water. In my only other marathon I didn't eat anything, and the wheels came
off at 21, so this time I'd tried to train my stomach to accept something
along the way. To make a long story short, the whole thing backfired. I ate
a gel at 8 miles, stopped in a john to lose it at 17 miles, also lost 3
minutes in that mile.

After that I never really gained back full momentum, either physically or
mentally. I was nauseated by the food smells from the roadside partiers. I
started walking through water stops (and continued this even as late as
mile 24 or 25). I needed the water, but at the same time it made me feel
sick. As I was walking through one stop a girl downed her water, patted me
on the back and said "c'mon, let's go." I never saw her again (actually
ended up passing her), but she had "Mexico" on her shirt and she has my
undying gratitude. With a mile to go I decided I wasn't going to walk any
more, and I finished with a chip time of 3:32:42, which was a tiny 3-minute
PR but nowhere near what I'd hoped for. I ran a 12-minute positive split,
and even with the time lost in the john and the gallowalking, that's still
a lot of time.

After taking off my chip I lay down on the street, tried to puke or pass
out, decided it wasn't necessary, stayed down for a while until I was sure
I could get up.

Amazingly, after a bath and a little bit of horizontal I felt pretty ok, and
we went out with a few running club people for dinner, drinks, and a little
crazy dancing, doing the hotdog to a horrible cover band playing horrible
80s top-40 tripe. The hotdog, for those of you too young to remember the
Patty Duke show, "makes you lose control." I suppose that if I could do the
hotdog hours after a marathon I didn't run hard enough.

Some stuff I learned today:

Uphills don't really bother me. Downhills are harder. I missed Heartbreak
Hill, didn't realize where it was until I'd passed it.

I can run a marathon in flats after all (though my finishing time suggests
that maybe I shouldn't).

Sunday's sore leg didn't hurt at all during the race, was just the tiniest
bit sore last night, might be gone altogether. In fact I feel much better
than after my other marathon. I'm looking forward to a little 2-mile trot
tomorrow [Wednesday, and I did the little trot and it felt fine].

This may be heresy, but I really didn't enjoy all those things that make
Boston Boston. This seemed less a race to me than a spectacle. The race,
and especially the start, is too crowded for me (granted I am a
misanthrope). You run next to Tess for a few miles and all you hear is "go
Tess go Tess go Tess you can do it Tess" until you switch to the other side
of the road to hear "go 3462 go 3462 go 3462 you can do it" for another few
miles. I ran past Bridget sometime in the last few miles, and seeing
someone I knew lifted my spirits some, but for the most part I just felt
like I was running down a road where for some reason a lot of people were
screaming, and I wanted to tune it all out so I could concentrate on the
race. Alas.

Karen

joe positive said:

I'm not much for writing race reports. I enjoy reading other peoples'
reports, but I can't understand how anyone can remember the
blow-by-blow for each mile. I tend to lose my mind in races. Anyway,
here are some things I can remember:

I started in the 11th corral, though I was hoping for a much faster
time than that indicated (ah, hubris).

You should have taken a leaf out of my book and given your hoped for time.
I got seeded into the 3rd of 9 corrals and crossed the start line 30 seconds
after the gun.

Quoted message said:

It took over 9 minutes to
cross the start line. We walked pretty much the whole way but once we
crossed I found myself running shoulder to shoulder with people who
were running, as someone else very nicely put it, "at a pace a good
bit slower than their qualifying pace." The first couple of miles
were slower than I'd have liked but still acceptable, but the 3rd
mile was something like 8 minutes and I lost a whole lotta love for
humankind and all their inventions, particularly the Boston marathon.
I began to feel like a circus animal trotting along for the
entertainment of the people lining the road.

In some ways I wish I had started futher back. Setting off too fast was
part of my undoing this year. *Everybody* around me was running at 7:20-
7:30 pace right from the start. Although this was my target pace, given the
warmth and sun, I'd have done a lot better if I'd started at 8:00 and
speeded up later if possible.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

This may be heresy, but I really didn't enjoy all those things that
make Boston Boston. This seemed less a race to me than a spectacle.

More or less my feelings exactly about London. It is really a marathon
length fun run and I would have enjoyed it a lot more if I'd done it in
fancy dress and had no time target.

Quoted message said:

The race, and especially the start, is too crowded for me (granted I
am a misanthrope). You run next to Tess for a few miles and all you
hear is "go Tess go Tess go Tess you can do it Tess" until you switch
to the other side of the road to hear "go 3462 go 3462 go 3462 you
can do it" for another few miles. I ran past Bridget sometime in the
last few miles, and seeing someone I knew lifted my spirits some, but
for the most part I just felt like I was running down a road where
for some reason a lot of people were screaming, and I wanted to tune
it all out so I could concentrate on the race. Alas.

I've never run with a walkman/mp3 player but after the wall to wall cheering
and screaming in London, I wish I had worn one. I found it seriously
distracting. Some cheering over the last few miles would have been fine but
26.2 miles of it was *way* too much. I think we both qualify as grumpy old
farts. ;-)

Congratulations on the PB under diffcult circumstances. Obviously not the
PB you hoped for (and deserved) but it could have been worse. I was minute
*slower* than my PB.

I think you're ready to move on to trail ultras now. ;-)

Tim

joe positive <[email hidden]> wrote:
....

Quoted message said:

I lost a whole lotta love for humankind and all their inventions,
particularly the Boston marathon. I began to feel like a circus animal
trotting along for the entertainment of the people lining the road.

This was the part that I liked the most 🙂

So, it seems you didn't like Boston, but remember, one day when
you are old like Doug, you can kick back and tell the newbies:
"Boston? Been there, done that."

Good luck with Baltimore, Karen.

jobs

way to hang in there karen....good job. i know what you mean about the
distractions if you're trying to focus and get in a zone.

what works for me. to get into the zone and away from the spectacle,
i will wear a quality runners cap well down on my forehead. it creates
a great "tunnel" vision effect from the brim....it's almost like
wearing blinders the way runner cap brims curl/arc...and you keep your
eyes 10-20 meters ahead of your on the road. i find his condusive to
getting into a focused zone despite adjacent distractions...

Quoted message said:

what works for me. to get into the zone and away from the spectacle,
i will wear a quality runners cap well down on my forehead. it creates
a great "tunnel" vision effect from the brim....it's almost like
wearing blinders the way runner cap brims curl/arc...and you keep your
eyes 10-20 meters ahead of your on the road. i find his condusive to
getting into a focused zone despite adjacent distractions...

Yeah, kinda like this - http://tinyurl.com/ag4v3 ;-)

--
Phil M.

Tim Downie said:

You should have taken a leaf out of my book and given your hoped for

time.

That´s not so bad when you start at your hoped for pace, but when
everyone does this, the honest, play-by-the-rules runners - especially
those from Lutheran Scandinavia:-) - end up paying the price...

Quoted message said:

I got seeded into the 3rd of 9 corrals and crossed the start line 30

seconds

Quoted message said:

after the gun.

London also has three separate starts, which helps to deal with the
huge numbers. The Swede who started in a "3:30" corral found the going
smooth at exactly that pace - it wasn´t until about 11-12km that the
hopefuls began to slow down en masse and block the road for him.

But, of course, with chip timing it doesn´t matter one iota how long
it takes to cross the start line - or it *shouldn´t, but for some
strange socio-psychological reason people act as if it did: once the
gun goes off, the entire pack starts pushing forward...

Quoted message said:

In some ways I wish I had started futher back. Setting off too fast

was

Quoted message said:

part of my undoing this year. *Everybody* around me was running at

7:20-

Quoted message said:

7:30 pace right from the start. Although this was my target pace,

given the

Quoted message said:

warmth and sun, I'd have done a lot better if I'd started at 8:00 and

Quoted message said:

speeded up later if possible.

As if to prove your point: the Swede was 4, 5 and 6 minutes slower than
you at the 10, 20 and 30km marks. but 1 minute faster at the finish (in
his "best time since 1993 and, pitstop excluded, PB"😉...

Quoted message said:

More or less my feelings exactly about London. It is really a

marathon

Quoted message said:

length fun run and I would have enjoyed it a lot more if I'd done it

in

Quoted message said:

fancy dress and had no time target.

OTOH in a small race the time target can grow larger than life inside
one´s head and the spectacle of the big race can help to keep it
manageable or maybe even to forget it for a moment.

Quoted message said:

I've never run with a walkman/mp3 player but after the wall to wall

cheering

Quoted message said:

and screaming in London, I wish I had worn one. I found it seriously

Quoted message said:

distracting. Some cheering over the last few miles would have been

fine but

Quoted message said:

26.2 miles of it was *way* too much. I think we both qualify as

grumpy old

Quoted message said:

farts. ;-)

Welcome to Helsinki, then - you certainly wouldn´t have to fear facing
an overdose of spectator support:-)

Quoted message said:

Congratulations on the PB under diffcult circumstances.

Hear, hear!

Anders

Quoted message said:

Amen! I ran once next to girl dressed as a cowgirl. At first the
wisecracks were funny but it soon got old. In the same line I often
suggest people not wear anything on their shirts. When you having a
good day it works out fine and may give you a lift. When you're not
having a good day, the echo's of "Betty, out getting laid last night,"
or "stop in for love injection" or "John you suck get moving you
so-n-so.

There must have been someone near me with "Nads" printed on their shirt. At
first it was funny. But after an hour?

--
Phil M.