Race help for newbie

In article said:

Hi all,

In order to get myself to run (I don't like running) I've
signed up for a 5K race. Nothing works as well as fear for
me when it comes to motivation. A fear of not finishing or
not showing a good time, it does not matter. Anyway, the
idea worked and I am running every day.

The race day is comming up and my question is about the
race pace. I am very slow, so the absolute speed is
irrelevant. But what I want is to do the race at the
optimum speed for me: being able to finish while not going
slower than I can go. I am guessing this is a universal
goal for all racers.

Is there any rules of thumb as far as what to aim for pace-
wise as related to heart rate? For example (is this the
same for everyone?), at 80% of my MHR I can last forever,
at 85% MHR, I will get tired, but don't know how long I
would be able to last, at 95%+ MHR, I die quick.

I don't know if you remember this, but I posted heartrate
data for you on mfw some time back. I think I was about 90%
after 2 minutes, 95% after 2 and indistinguishable from 100%
from mile 2 onwards.

The problem is that MHR depends on conditions, so it's hard
to distinguish between 95% and 97% of your true MHR. In
other words, don't use a heart rate monitor for the race
unless you want to run slowly.

Quoted message said:

But races are different than training. It is OK to kill
yourself in a race (not literally). So what do most
people do? Find steady pace that will last the 5K. Start
out easy and sprint the last mile? How do you find the
ultimate pace?

The optimal pacing for a 5k is an even pace, with a strong
final 400m or so.

Quoted message said:

I understand that you can arrive at the ultimate pace with
lots of trial and error,

Which is, to a large extent, what you use. You need sharp
racing instincts to run a really good race and these come
with experience.

Quoted message said:

but I don't have much time left (race is in a week). I
don't need to come up with a perfect formula here. Just
something that will give me a reasonable performace that I
can try to beat later.

Since you're fairly new to this -- my suggestion would be to
hold back a little in the first mile. The excitement of the
race is likely to push you out the door quickly and running
along a lot of others tends to distort ones sense of pace.
It's very easy to start too quickly in a race setting.
Starting too quickly is more costly than starting too
slowly. If you start a little slowly, you can probably get
back 30 seconds by running a strong last mile, maybe even 10
seconds or more on the last 400m.

By the half way mark, you should be at a stage where you're
in just enough pain to be able to sense what the proper
pace is, and from there, it's a steady push to the finish
line. Getting to the halfway mark at the right pace is the
hard part.

My suggestion would be to go easy in the first half and push
hard in the last half of the race (OK, you don't know
exactly where the half way mark is but you know, it's a few
minutes after the 1 mile mark). If you finish with negative
splits (that is, you increase speed as the race progresses,
instead of dying halfway through), I think that's a
performance you can be proud of, and unless you start way
too cautiously, it will be a decent performance. I've always
felt good about races that I finished strongly, even the
ones that were not my fastest times.

Good luck.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>,

(ignorcrew) said:

Hi all,

In order to get myself to run (I don't like running) I've
signed up for a 5K race. Nothing works as well as fear for
me when it comes to motivation. A fear of not finishing or
not showing a good time, it does not matter. Anyway, the
idea worked and I am running every day.

The race day is comming up and my question is about the
race pace. I am very slow, so the absolute speed is
irrelevant. But what I want is to do the race at the
optimum speed for me: being able to finish while not going
slower than I can go. I am guessing this is a universal
goal for all racers.

Is there any rules of thumb as far as what to aim for pace-
wise as related to heart rate? For example (is this the
same for everyone?), at 80% of my MHR I can last forever,
at 85% MHR, I will get tired, but don't know how long I
would be able to last, at 95%+ MHR, I die quick.

But races are different than training. It is OK to kill
yourself in a race (not literally). So what do most
people do? Find steady pace that will last the 5K. Start
out easy and sprint the last mile? How do you find the
ultimate pace?

I understand that you can arrive at the ultimate pace with
lots of trial and error, but I don't have much time left
(race is in a week).

I don't need to come up with a perfect formula here. Just
something that will give me a reasonable performace that I
can try to beat later.

Thanks to all.

you know what... this is your first race, so don't worry
about pace at all. just go out and run it comfortably and
have a fun time. make it memorable - with good memories.
don't knock yourself out first time out so that you can only
look back on the event in years gone by with memories of the
vomiting and severe leg pain that you suffered.

not the way to go.

you have found that you can do the distance now, right? how
long until the race? a few weeks? a few months? if the race
is creeping up soon, then just do what you are doing now.
maybe do a faster run once per week, where you start out
easy and build up the tempo so that by about the halfway
point you are at a comfortably fast speed, which you feel
you can sustain for the rest of the workout. obviously ease
off near the end to cool down again. this simulated "race
pace" run will teach your body to handle going a bit faster
than you have been so far.

if you have more time on your hands before race day, you
could also do some intervals to build speed further. a fun
and easy way to get into this sort of work is to do what's
called "fartlek", which is Swedish for "speed play". just
start out easy and get warmed up for at least 10-15
min. then periodically speed up and maintain that speed for
a bit, then slow down until your breathing has gotten
back to normal (for running). hold that faster pace
until that mailbox down the street. or that lamp post,
or that dog on the leash. whatever. mix up the
distances when you do this... some bursts can be short
and faster, others might be longer, like the length of
a street (maybe a minute or two) where you go faster
but not all out.

i'd say these are fun and easy ways to get into some speed
work which can give you some significant and motivational
speed gains. you could time yourself on your current running
route NOW, then do this stuff for several (at least 4)
weeks, then time yourself on a race pace run. you WILL see
an improvement.

i wouldn't worry about what pace you're doing or HRM's at
this point. you're just starting out, and you want to keep
it fun and without any undue pressure on yourself. no need
to measure yourself against others (yet).

best of luck and have fun!

Cam

Quoted message said:

But races are different than training. It is OK to kill
yourself in a race (not literally). So what do most
people do? Find steady pace that will last the 5K. Start
out easy and sprint the last mile? How do you find the
ultimate pace?

As you said, it's trial and error. One important thing to
keep in mind is that this is unlikely to be your only 5K,
and few people ever get it right the very first time out. So
you'll either run a good solid race, or you'll learn
something. (You'll learn something either way, of course,
but you know what I mean.)

I don't use a HRM, and if I did I doubt I'd use it in a
race to set my pace. What I've done is figure out what my
5K pace is and gone to the track to run intervals at that
pace -- I like the track because with all the markings I
can check my pace every 50 to 100 meters. So if I'm running
each lap in 2 minutes, I know I should pass each 100m mark
in 30 seconds. So I get used to what feels right and what
doesn't, and most crucially, how fast I'm breathing, so I
can use that in the race.

That said ... for this race, I'm with Donovan: Start
conservatively without feeling slow. Check in with how you
feel around halfway, and when you pass the 2-mile marker, if
you're feeling good you can pick up the pace.

Good luck!

--
Brian P. Baresch Fort Worth, Texas, USA Professional editing
and proofreading

If you're going through hell, keep going. --Winston
Churchill

"onemarathon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

(ignorcrew) said:

Hi all,

In order to get myself to run (I don't like running)
I've signed up for a 5K race. Nothing works as well
as fear for me when it comes to motivation. A fear of
not finishing or not showing a good time, it does not
matter. Anyway, the idea worked and I am running
every day.

The race day is comming up and my question is about the
race pace. I am very slow, so the absolute speed is
irrelevant. But what I want is to do the race at the
optimum speed for me: being able to finish while not
going slower than I can go. I am guessing this is a
universal goal for all racers.

Is there any rules of thumb as far as what to aim for
pace-wise as related to heart rate? For example (is this
the same for everyone?), at 80% of my MHR I can last
forever, at 85% MHR, I will get tired, but don't know
how long I would be able to last, at 95%+ MHR, I die
quick.

But races are different than training. It is OK to kill
yourself in a race (not literally). So what do most
people do? Find steady pace that will last the 5K. Start
out easy and sprint the last mile? How do you find the
ultimate pace?

I understand that you can arrive at the ultimate pace
with lots of trial and error, but I don't have much time
left (race is in a week).

I don't need to come up with a perfect formula here.
Just something that will give me a reasonable performace
that I can try to beat later.

Thanks to all.

you know what... this is your first race, so don't worry
about pace at all. just go out and run it comfortably and
have a fun time.

Very well said, and I agree.

cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org "The most
insecure people are the ones you see, putting other people
down constantly."

I am 48, male. I am a recreational runner but my training is
for racing. For me, I train to run races. I run about 12 of
them a year. I race 5K, 10K, and 12K's. I enjoy 5Ks because
they are a sprint. Never do I sprint that hard and that long
during training, only when I race. You do not need to run
that hard in training to benefit from your training runs. In
fact, for many of us, training that hard is likely to result
in injury. You can run as low as 65% of your MHR and still
benefit from your run. These slower runs build lactate
tollerance in your muscles which help you build your
mechanism for longer runs. Training, for me, is to
strengthen my bones and tendons and to increase my
cardiovascular capacity while getting out and enjoying the
countryside. As you may hear alot, you need to discover the
type of runner you are. I enjoy racing, but more exactly, I
enjoy running with a big group of fellow runners,
celebrating the joy of being a runner and running faster
than I did last year. Thats what a race is for me. You need
to findout what it means to you. I do not expect you to feel
the same way I do about the sport. It is so very personal.

Enjoy your race, keep your bib number and write your
finishing time on it. See if you can improve next year. If
you stay with it you will find it becomes easier to
tollerate and many of us even enjoy running. Took me about
three months before i lost that feeling that I was gasping
like a fish out of water.

Also, races are associated, usually, with a cause. Enjoy the
fact that your entry fee has gone to support the cause
(Arthritis, Cancer Research, Sids, etc). Breathe deep, relax
and enjoy the race, if you want to let it all hang out and
run at 95%, go ahead. But dont feel anyone, but yourself, is
pressuring you to run that hard.

Keep at it, running has so many benefits.

Jim

"ignorcrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all,

In order to get myself to run (I don't like running) I've
signed up for a 5K race. Nothing works as well as fear for
me when it comes to motivation. A fear of not finishing or
not showing a good time, it does not matter. Anyway, the
idea worked and I am running every day.

The race day is comming up and my question is about the
race pace. I am very slow, so the absolute speed is
irrelevant. But what I want is to do the race at the
optimum speed for me: being able to finish while not going
slower than I can go. I am guessing this is a universal
goal for all racers.

Is there any rules of thumb as far as what to aim for pace-
wise as related to heart rate? For example (is this the
same for everyone?), at 80% of my MHR I can last forever,
at 85% MHR, I will get tired, but don't know how long I
would be able to last, at 95%+ MHR, I die quick.

But races are different than training. It is OK to kill
yourself in a race (not literally). So what do most
people do? Find steady pace that will last the 5K. Start
out easy and sprint the last mile? How do you find the
ultimate pace?

I understand that you can arrive at the ultimate pace with
lots of trial and error, but I don't have much time left
(race is in a week).

I don't need to come up with a perfect formula here. Just
something that will give me a reasonable performace that I
can try to beat later.

Thanks to all.

ignorcrew said:

Hi all,

In order to get myself to run (I don't like running) I've
signed up for a 5K race.

....

Quoted message said:

Is there any rules of thumb as far as what to aim for pace-
wise as related to heart rate? For example (is this the
same for everyone?), at 80% of my MHR I can last forever,
at 85% MHR, I will get tired, but don't know how long I
would be able to last, at 95%+ MHR, I die quick.

Yep, that sounds about right.

Quoted message said:

But races are different than training. It is OK to kill
yourself in a race (not literally). So what do most
people do? Find steady pace that will last the 5K. Start
out easy and sprint the last mile? How do you find the
ultimate pace?

As others have said, enjoy your first race and don't worry
about pace - just get to the start and finish.

Sounds like you're using a hrm. On race day, it will likely
be about 10-20 bpm high for the adrenaline factor (compare
rate when standing before race with normal standing rate).
Ignore hrm, unless you make appropriate adjustments. But you
already know what an effort of 80% or 85% max hr feels like
without looking at hrm since you've been training with it
(you have been learning the feel, right, and not just
listening to beeps?) - and that likely will still feel the
same on race day - if you can sort through the excitement.
What you might do is start at your 80% feel, then when about
half way and you think you can hold it, gradually increase.
Trying to run the 2nd half in same time as first half (maybe
be a little faster) is usually a good goal.

Some people run a race as an individual event, so there's
nothing left and they hurt for days afterward. Others run a
race as part of an overall scheme, and like to not be
hurting enough at the end that they can run the next day or
so. Your choice. But for a first one, I'd probably aim to
not kill myself enroute - since you will likely be putting
out more than you realize. And if you don't like running,
ending in a not-quite-so-sore state might encourage more
running 🙂 Once you get into it, you may find you like it.

Enjoy.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Good advice Dot.

Jim

Donovan Rebbechi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

ignorcrew said:

Hi all,

In order to get myself to run (I don't like running)
I've signed up for a 5K race. Nothing works as well
as fear for me when it comes to motivation. A fear of
not finishing or not showing a good time, it does not
matter. Anyway, the idea worked and I am running
every day.

The race day is comming up and my question is about the
race pace. I am very slow, so the absolute speed is
irrelevant. But what I want is to do the race at the
optimum speed for me: being able to finish while not
going slower than I can go. I am guessing this is a
universal goal for all racers.

Is there any rules of thumb as far as what to aim for
pace-wise as related to heart rate? For example (is this
the same for everyone?), at 80% of my MHR I can last
forever, at 85% MHR, I will get tired, but don't know
how long I would be able to last, at 95%+ MHR, I die
quick.

I don't know if you remember this, but I posted heartrate
data for you on mfw some time back.

I did not, but I went back and found the post. We were
discussing interval training and you were suggesting that I
try racing. Since I was not thinking about running a race
back then, I did not remember the post in that context.

I never want to run and think the pressure of upcomming race
is the only thing that will get me out there.

I think I was about 90% after 2 minutes, 95% after 2 and

Quoted message said:

indistinguishable from 100% from mile 2 onwards.

The problem is that MHR depends on conditions, so it's
hard to distinguish between 95% and 97% of your true MHR.
In other words, don't use a heart rate monitor for the
race unless you want to run slowly.

Quoted message said:

But races are different than training. It is OK to kill
yourself in a race (not literally). So what do most
people do? Find steady pace that will last the 5K. Start
out easy and sprint the last mile? How do you find the
ultimate pace?

The optimal pacing for a 5k is an even pace, with a strong
final 400m or so.

Quoted message said:

I understand that you can arrive at the ultimate pace
with lots of trial and error,

Which is, to a large extent, what you use. You need sharp
racing instincts to run a really good race and these come
with experience.

Quoted message said:

but I don't have much time left (race is in a week). I
don't need to come up with a perfect formula here. Just
something that will give me a reasonable performace that
I can try to beat later.

Since you're fairly new to this -- my suggestion would be
to hold back a little in the first mile. The excitement of
the race is likely to push you out the door quickly and
running along a lot of others tends to distort ones sense
of pace. It's very easy to start too quickly in a race
setting. Starting too quickly is more costly than starting
too slowly. If you start a little slowly, you can probably
get back 30 seconds by running a strong last mile, maybe
even 10 seconds or more on the last 400m.

By the half way mark, you should be at a stage where
you're in just enough pain to be able to sense what the
proper pace is, and from there, it's a steady push to the
finish line. Getting to the halfway mark at the right pace
is the hard part.

My suggestion would be to go easy in the first half and
push hard in the last half of the race (OK, you don't know
exactly where the half way mark is but you know, it's a
few minutes after the 1 mile mark). If you finish with
negative splits (that is, you increase speed as the race
progresses, instead of dying halfway through), I think
that's a performance you can be proud of, and unless you
start way too cautiously, it will be a decent performance.
I've always felt good about races that I finished
strongly, even the ones that were not my fastest times.

Sounds good. I'll try that.

Thanks.

Quoted message said:

Good luck.

Cheers,

onemarathon <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

(ignorcrew) said:

Hi all,

In order to get myself to run (I don't like running)
I've signed up for a 5K race. Nothing works as well
as fear for me when it comes to motivation. A fear of
not finishing or not showing a good time, it does not
matter. Anyway, the idea worked and I am running
every day.

The race day is comming up and my question is about the
race pace. I am very slow, so the absolute speed is
irrelevant. But what I want is to do the race at the
optimum speed for me: being able to finish while not
going slower than I can go. I am guessing this is a
universal goal for all racers.

Is there any rules of thumb as far as what to aim for
pace-wise as related to heart rate? For example (is this
the same for everyone?), at 80% of my MHR I can last
forever, at 85% MHR, I will get tired, but don't know
how long I would be able to last, at 95%+ MHR, I die
quick.

But races are different than training. It is OK to kill
yourself in a race (not literally). So what do most
people do? Find steady pace that will last the 5K. Start
out easy and sprint the last mile? How do you find the
ultimate pace?

I understand that you can arrive at the ultimate pace
with lots of trial and error, but I don't have much time
left (race is in a week).

I don't need to come up with a perfect formula here.
Just something that will give me a reasonable performace
that I can try to beat later.

Thanks to all.

you know what... this is your first race, so don't worry
about pace at all. just go out and run it comfortably and
have a fun time. make it memorable - with good memories.
don't knock yourself out first time out so that you can
only look back on the event in years gone by with memories
of the vomiting and severe leg pain

Would never think that people go out and run that hard in
the recreational races. I thought most are in for the good
time and for beating their last performace. Vomiting was not
in my plans.

that you suffered.

Quoted message said:

not the way to go.

you have found that you can do the distance now, right?

yes.

how long until

Quoted message said:

the race? a few weeks? a few months?

5 days.

if the race is creeping up soon,

Quoted message said:

then just do what you are doing now. maybe do a faster run
once per week, where you start out easy and build up the
tempo so that by about the halfway point you are at a
comfortably fast speed, which you feel you can sustain for
the rest of the workout. obviously ease off near the end
to cool down again. this simulated "race pace" run will
teach your body to handle going a bit faster than you have
been so far.

if you have more time on your hands before race day, you
could also do some intervals to build speed further. a fun
and easy way to get into this sort of work is to do what's
called "fartlek", which is Swedish for "speed play". just
start out easy and get warmed up for at least 10-15
min. then periodically speed up and maintain that speed
for a bit, then slow down until your breathing has
gotten back to normal (for running). hold that faster
pace until that mailbox down the street. or that lamp
post, or that dog on the leash. whatever. mix up the
distances when you do this... some bursts can be
short and faster, others might be longer, like the
length of a street (maybe a minute or two) where you
go faster but not all out.

i'd say these are fun and easy ways to get into some speed
work which can give you some significant and motivational
speed gains. you could time yourself on your current
running route NOW, then do this stuff for several (at
least 4) weeks, then time yourself on a race pace run. you
WILL see an improvement.

Yes, I've done these before for weight loss and have seen a
great speed improvement. When I started (don't laugh) my max
speed was like 6MPH and only weeks later I could run at over
9MPH. My weight has been stable for a while so I have not
been doing this and I know I am slower now.

Quoted message said:

i wouldn't worry about what pace you're doing or HRM's at
this point. you're just starting out, and you want to keep
it fun and without any undue pressure on yourself. no need
to measure yourself against others (yet).

best of luck and have fun!

Cam

Thanks. If I don't overdo it the first mile, I think I will.

Dot <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

ignorcrew said:

Hi all,

In order to get myself to run (I don't like running)
I've signed up for a 5K race.

....

Quoted message said:

Is there any rules of thumb as far as what to aim for
pace-wise as related to heart rate? For example (is this
the same for everyone?), at 80% of my MHR I can last
forever, at 85% MHR, I will get tired, but don't know
how long I would be able to last, at 95%+ MHR, I die
quick.

Yep, that sounds about right.

Quoted message said:

But races are different than training. It is OK to kill
yourself in a race (not literally). So what do most
people do? Find steady pace that will last the 5K. Start
out easy and sprint the last mile? How do you find the
ultimate pace?

As others have said, enjoy your first race and don't worry
about pace - just get to the start and finish.

Sounds like you're using a hrm. On race day, it will
likely be about 10-20 bpm high for the adrenaline factor
(compare rate when standing before race with normal
standing rate). Ignore hrm, unless you make appropriate
adjustments. But you already know what an effort of 80% or
85% max hr feels like without looking at hrm since you've
been training with it (you have been learning the feel,
right, and not just listening to beeps?) - and that likely
will still feel the same on race day - if you can sort
through the excitement. What you might do is start at your
80% feel, then when about half way and you think you can
hold it, gradually increase. Trying to run the 2nd half in
same time as first half (maybe be a little faster) is
usually a good goal.

Some people run a race as an individual event, so there's
nothing left and they hurt for days afterward. Others run
a race as part of an overall scheme, and like to not be
hurting enough at the end that they can run the next day
or so. Your choice. But for a first one, I'd probably aim
to not kill myself enroute - since you will likely be
putting out more than you realize. And if you don't like
running, ending in a not-quite-so-sore state might
encourage more running 🙂 Once you get into it, you may
find you like it.

Enjoy.

Dot

Sounds like a good advice. Thanks.