RAAM: Race Across America

This falls in the category of really weird. I have this fantasy of
going fast-- in going slow I help make the rest of these fast riders
possible. After all, if it weren't for us their wouldn't be a anyone
to go faster than.

Anyway, while I am imaging how fast I can be, I occassionally hit
ultra cycling sites and dream about doing enough brevets to actually
do Paris Brest Paris. I watch the twelve hour dvd version of the tour
de france. I watch the Giro de Italia.

So I hit the RAAM site. I learned that the RAAM ride leader will be
going through Circleville, OH between 5-7am tomorrow morning. I also
learned that the team in the lead as of last night eastern time is ALS
Lightning. This of course interested me because:

I own a Lightning.

Mine of course is the slow kind, a Stealth, but it is based on the
P-38.

So my interest peaked. Then I read further about the four man team.
To my surprise it looks like one of the riders is the cousin of my
partner...his name Bob Fourney! I couldn't believe this.... so I
asked and sure enough we think its the same guy. He was always into
ultra cycling but this takes the cake.

So I figure a field trip to Circleville am tomorrow worth a trip.
Note that at least two of the four ride leaders, out to set a coast to
coast record of slightly over 5 days, are recumbents on LIGHTNINGS!

For those of you following my mosts, this would be the hare!

"Melanie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This falls in the category of really weird. I have this fantasy of
going fast-- in going slow I help make the rest of these fast riders
possible. After all, if it weren't for us their wouldn't be a anyone
to go faster than.

Anyway, while I am imaging how fast I can be, I occassionally hit
ultra cycling sites and dream about doing enough brevets to actually
do Paris Brest Paris. I watch the twelve hour dvd version of the tour
de france. I watch the Giro de Italia.

[...]

This newsgroup is replete with those who think the Tour de France is God's
gift to humanity. It appears that you fall into this category yourself. You
are lucky as the world is set up to cater to these types of really weird
interests.

RAAM is of course an abomination, but I do like the idea of being able to
cycle across this country. But I would not make it a race. It would just be
a tour and the longer it took the better. This mania for always wanting to
turn everything into a race and to want to go fast is simply insane.

It's fun to tweak all the wanna-go-fast crowd here on ARBR. They can no more
understand me than I can them.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Well it turns out the Lightning ALS team does have the person we
thought on their team. They are currently between Athens, Ohio and
Parkersburg West Virginia, and they are flying! Unfortunately for us,
they are going so fast that we can't even catch them in the car....

I am so excited!

"Melanie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well it turns out the Lightning ALS team does have the person we
thought on their team. They are currently between Athens, Ohio and
Parkersburg West Virginia, and they are flying! Unfortunately for us,
they are going so fast that we can't even catch them in the car....

I am so excited!

Melanie, they are going so fast because they can't wait to get the misery
over with. They are no doubt asking themselves with every passing mile why
they are doing this thing. And they are no doubt resolving never to do
anything this foolish ever again in their lives if they survive it.

Aren't you glad that you and I are smart enough not to even want to do this
crazy sort of thing. It is enough to sit on the sidelines and laugh at them.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Heck, that is the beauty of being on a bent. We can take our time or
rush along depending on mood, wind, incline or inclination. I'm slow
and that's it... happy but slow...

Bob Fourney is fast, extremely fast, so fast in fact that he and the
rest of his faired Lightning companions just finished 1st ahead of
every other team, all uprights at the Race Across America. We are so
slow and he is so fast.

I must admit we have been pretty excited in this household since
discovering that Bob was doing the race and then actually winning with
Lightning's team. We did track them all the way across Ohio thence to
West Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey just this
morning.

Alright, so I am living vicariously....

back to celebrating the slow tomorrow....

Melanie

"Melanie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Heck, that is the beauty of being on a bent. We can take our time or
rush along depending on mood, wind, incline or inclination. I'm slow
and that's it... happy but slow...

I am always telling everyone that there is no penalty for being slow on a
recumbent when it comes to comfort. That factor stays the same whether fast
or slow. That is not true with uprights. If you go slow on an upright you
will suffer for it.

Quoted message said:

Bob Fourney is fast, extremely fast, so fast in fact that he and the
rest of his faired Lightning companions just finished 1st ahead of
every other team, all uprights at the Race Across America. We are so
slow and he is so fast.

I must admit we have been pretty excited in this household since
discovering that Bob was doing the race and then actually winning with
Lightning's team. We did track them all the way across Ohio thence to
West Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey just this
morning.

Alright, so I am living vicariously....

It is better to live vicariously when it comes to some things than to live
them in your own person. I have been reading books about mountain climbing
all my life but I have never once wanted to "climb" a mountain myself.. I
have walked up many a mountain, but I refuse to climb them. That is because
I have a very highly developed sense of self preservation. Most mountain
climbers manage to get themselves killed sooner or later. Mostly avalanches
take them out.

Following bicycle races is a harmless pastime and I do not begrudge anyone a
harmless pastime. I wish I could be so easily amused. But apparently it is
not to be. Unless I am intellectually stimulated I am bored. And so I use my
mind and do not spend any time at all following the physical exploits of
others.

Your posts are unique in that you do not post the message to which you are
responding. This could get really confusing if too many did this.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Ed wrote that > [my} posts are unique in that [I] do not post the
message to which you are responding. This could get really confusing
if too many did this.

Reply:

Dear Ed,

My newsgroup reader gives me the whole thread. I can easily see what
went before, and I don't need to read it again, in fact, to me that is
a waste of bandwidth. I didn't realize there were others who were
reading the posts in a thread without reading what went before.

When I first started on ng, it was frequent net etiquette to post only
quote that portion of a comment that was necessary to understand the
follow up in context.

Have the readers changed so that this is no longer true? I have been
away a while.

I do apologize if I have confused you in any way. That was not my
intention.

Melanie

On 27 Jun 2004 11:55:18 -0700, [email hidden]
(Melanie) wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

My newsgroup reader gives me the whole thread. I can easily see what
went before, and I don't need to read it again, in fact, to me that is
a waste of bandwidth.

"waste of bandwidth" is as good a description of Mr Ed as you will be
needing :-)

Quoted message said:

When I first started on ng, it was frequent net etiquette to post only
quote that portion of a comment that was necessary to understand the
follow up in context.

Is still correct usage in my book.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

"Melanie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
[quote="Quoted message"]Ed wrote that > [my} posts are unique in that [I] do not post the
message to which you are responding. This could get really confusing
if too many did this.

Reply:

Dear Ed,

My newsgroup reader gives me the whole thread. I can easily see what
went before, and I don't need to read it again, in fact, to me that is
a waste of bandwidth. I didn't realize there were others who were
reading the posts in a thread without reading what went before.[/quote]

You are effecting a letter writing style as opposed to a newsgroup posting
style. But you are not contentious like I am and so others are not jumping
in on your messages and taking issue with everything you say. If they were,
your style would not work. I am the opposite of you. I seem to bring all the
nuts and screwballs out of the woodwork and any post I contribute to will
get downright contentious - to say the least.

The main thing to keep in mind is that the world is reading what we are
writing to one another and the world can add their two cents worth to the
ongoing conversation. Because this is the way a newsgroup works, it is
essential to add context and references every inch of the way, not so much
for our benefit, but for the benefit of others who may be reading the
message. Very many readers are NOT reading what has come before. To get a
perfect picture of what our posts look like to others, you have to go to the
Google web page and see how they are displayed there. The newsreaders that
you and I are using can be quite misleading.

Quoted message said:

When I first started on ng, it was frequent net etiquette to post only
quote that portion of a comment that was necessary to understand the
follow up in context.

Have the readers changed so that this is no longer true? I have been
away a while.

Quoted message said:

I do apologize if I have confused you in any way. That was not my
intention.

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 27 Jun 2004 11:55:18 -0700, [email hidden]
(Melanie) wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

My newsgroup reader gives me the whole thread. I can easily see what
went before, and I don't need to read it again, in fact, to me that is
a waste of bandwidth.

"waste of bandwidth" is as good a description of Mr Ed as you will be
needing :-)

These little side comments of Guy's are getting tiresome. But I suppose that
is what one does when one has nothing of substance to contribute. I note
that Mr. Sherman is doing this sort of thing more and more of late too.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When I first started on ng, it was frequent net etiquette to post only
quote that portion of a comment that was necessary to understand the
follow up in context.

Is still correct usage in my book.

Of course it is. How else is anyone going to know what is being said. But
you, along with many others here, edit me too severely. You do not include
enough of what I have said in my message to be fair to me. You need to be
less concerned about putting yourself in good light and more concerned about
being honest to your correspondent. Follow my example!

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota

n0 1

Doofus begged:

Quoted message said:

Follow my example!

"bil" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FkLDc.1930$151.1073@fed1read02...

Quoted message said:

n0 1

Doofus begged:

Quoted message said:

Follow my example!

That was not a suggestion where Guy or you are concerned, but more like an
order - which is all you two bozos understand.

But I see you are continuing to top post. And editing too severely. Back to
school with you - blockhead! But then, no one reads you except me so maybe
it doesn't matter!

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Ed, you wrote:

You are effecting a letter writing style as opposed to a newsgroup
posting
style.

Reply:

No, on many ng, the "style" you referred to is actually a rule. Its
certainly something unique to the internet, to assist individuals with
lower end computers, or who are very busy and have very little time,
to be able to participate in a discussion.

The fact that some ng readers don't do their homework and don't read
to inform themselves shouldn't cause disrespect for the vast majority
who do Ed. I do hear in this that you think I edited you too much.
So I'll try and include a little more of what I am responding to so
you won't be so lost.

Ed, you also wrote:
But you are not contentious like I am and so others are not jumping
in on your messages and taking issue with everything you say.

Reply:

Some of what you say Ed doesn't have anything to do with bent bikes,
and that is why this NG exists. Everybody has political opinions of
one kind or another, but I personally don't think they belong here.
Nor do personal insults, because as you say "Everyone is reading what
we say". (well probably not, many NG readers either stop reading or
participating in a news group full of off topic posts, spam or flame
wars. Why do you think so many regulars left the newsgroup?)

You wrote: "I am the opposite of you. "

No, Ed, I think you WANT to be opposite of EVERYONE to get them to
respond to you-- watching your posts over the years, I hypothesize you
go outside the rules and etiquette because you want attention.
Perhaps you are lonely and this is the only way to get attention so
folks will respond to you-- let you know that you matter, and that you
are thought about...."

The thing is Ed, you do matter, even if you were to stay on topic and
try and think about the majority of readers who do read your posts.
You have so much to contribute from your life experience, your rides,
and your bikes. You have wisdom.

But it gets lost when in setting out to deliberately inflame people.
You lose your ability to persuade, to get respect and change lives and
minds, when you set up to be deliberately off topic and contrarian all
the time.

I don't think its a gender thing: I think it goes to maturity, and
the patience to be open minded and respectful.

OTOH, I have heard that extreme exercise can bring extremely high
levels of testosterone, and this can make man or woman extremely
aggressive and disagreeable.

Maybe its a hormonal thing. Perhaps rest would help you?

You too could be peacemaker, and maybe even persuade folks that you
are right, that is if you wanted to...

Its up to you I suppose. If you did that, even more people would
listen to you Ed. Why not share one of your great ride stories with
us?

All the best Ed,

Keep riding....😉

Melanie

Melanie:

As a general rule I top post, although if it's in direct response to
something in the thread I usually quote that. That's a form or procedure
that's often used on web forums where bandwidth *is* an issue. It's also
used in email listserves, and has become something of a necessity in the
blogging world, where it goes under the name "fisking." Often, if I'm in a
hurry I simply don't read a messasge that isn't top posted, because it takes
too long to scroll to something that might not be interesting anyway. If
you can easily see a response, or at least a quote that the author considers
important, it's easy to decide whether you want to read more.

Trolls hate top posting, for some reason. Well, they hate a lot of stuff,
including themselves.

--
--Scott
"Melanie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ed, you wrote:

You are effecting a letter writing style as opposed to a newsgroup
posting
style.

Reply:

No, on many ng, the "style" you referred to is actually a rule. Its
certainly something unique to the internet, to assist individuals with
lower end computers, or who are very busy and have very little time,
to be able to participate in a discussion.

The fact that some ng readers don't do their homework and don't read
to inform themselves shouldn't cause disrespect for the vast majority
who do Ed. I do hear in this that you think I edited you too much.
So I'll try and include a little more of what I am responding to so
you won't be so lost.

Ed, you also wrote:
But you are not contentious like I am and so others are not jumping
in on your messages and taking issue with everything you say.

Reply:

Some of what you say Ed doesn't have anything to do with bent bikes,
and that is why this NG exists. Everybody has political opinions of
one kind or another, but I personally don't think they belong here.
Nor do personal insults, because as you say "Everyone is reading what
we say". (well probably not, many NG readers either stop reading or
participating in a news group full of off topic posts, spam or flame
wars. Why do you think so many regulars left the newsgroup?)

You wrote: "I am the opposite of you. "

No, Ed, I think you WANT to be opposite of EVERYONE to get them to
respond to you-- watching your posts over the years, I hypothesize you
go outside the rules and etiquette because you want attention.
Perhaps you are lonely and this is the only way to get attention so
folks will respond to you-- let you know that you matter, and that you
are thought about...."

The thing is Ed, you do matter, even if you were to stay on topic and
try and think about the majority of readers who do read your posts.
You have so much to contribute from your life experience, your rides,
and your bikes. You have wisdom.

But it gets lost when in setting out to deliberately inflame people.
You lose your ability to persuade, to get respect and change lives and
minds, when you set up to be deliberately off topic and contrarian all
the time.

I don't think its a gender thing: I think it goes to maturity, and
the patience to be open minded and respectful.

OTOH, I have heard that extreme exercise can bring extremely high
levels of testosterone, and this can make man or woman extremely
aggressive and disagreeable.

Maybe its a hormonal thing. Perhaps rest would help you?

You too could be peacemaker, and maybe even persuade folks that you
are right, that is if you wanted to...

Its up to you I suppose. If you did that, even more people would
listen to you Ed. Why not share one of your great ride stories with
us?

All the best Ed,

Keep riding....😉

Melanie

"Melanie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ed, you wrote:

You are effecting a letter writing style as opposed to a newsgroup
posting
style.

Reply:

No, on many ng, the "style" you referred to is actually a rule. Its
certainly something unique to the internet, to assist individuals with
lower end computers, or who are very busy and have very little time,
to be able to participate in a discussion.

Yes, newsgroup posting is all about rules, which I observe and you don't.

Quoted message said:

The fact that some ng readers don't do their homework and don't read
to inform themselves shouldn't cause disrespect for the vast majority
who do Ed. I do hear in this that you think I edited you too much.
So I'll try and include a little more of what I am responding to so
you won't be so lost.

You do not edit me at all. In fact, you do not include anything of what I
have said (except previously for one very brief snippet). You respond as if
I had written you a letter, which I haven't (I assure you, a letter would
be vastly different than a posting). I have written you a newsgroup posting
which I know the whole world is going to read along with you. My main
concern is always for the universe of anonymous readers, not for the
particular correspondent to whom I am responding. I think that is the main
difference between what you are doing and what I am doing.

Quoted message said:

Ed, you also wrote:
But you are not contentious like I am and so others are not jumping
in on your messages and taking issue with everything you say.

Reply:

Some of what you say Ed doesn't have anything to do with bent bikes,
and that is why this NG exists. Everybody has political opinions of
one kind or another, but I personally don't think they belong here.
Nor do personal insults, because as you say "Everyone is reading what
we say". (well probably not, many NG readers either stop reading or
participating in a news group full of off topic posts, spam or flame
wars. Why do you think so many regulars left the newsgroup?)

A conversation will go the way it will go and those who do not like the way
it is going can leave the conversation and if they want to leave the
newsgroup, that is just fine with me too. We are well rid of the "regulars"
that were formerely here. They had outworn any welcome they ever had here
and were getting downright incestous in their postings. The newsgroup is a
far better place for their having left.

Quoted message said:

You wrote: "I am the opposite of you. "

No, Ed, I think you WANT to be opposite of EVERYONE to get them to
respond to you-- watching your posts over the years, I hypothesize you
go outside the rules and etiquette because you want attention.
Perhaps you are lonely and this is the only way to get attention so
folks will respond to you-- let you know that you matter, and that you
are thought about...."

Actually, I do disagree with most on this newsgroup about most things. But I
do not mind being contentious and disagreeable, most especially when it
comes to politics. I have noted that no one is ever trying to be friendly to
me, so why should I bother with them in that regard. No, I like argument and
I enjoy controversy. I wish it could all be on a higher level, but I am
willing to get down in the trenches with the majority of low life to be
found here on ARBR.

Quoted message said:

The thing is Ed, you do matter, even if you were to stay on topic and
try and think about the majority of readers who do read your posts.
You have so much to contribute from your life experience, your rides,
and your bikes. You have wisdom.

Ah, sweet amelioration! But you are one in million. I am having to deal with
blooming idiots of the first rank. But it is nothing but fun and games for
me and when I tire of it I will leave and go on to other things.

Quoted message said:

But it gets lost when in setting out to deliberately inflame people.
You lose your ability to persuade, to get respect and change lives and
minds, when you set up to be deliberately off topic and contrarian all
the time.

I am not really trying to persuade anyone of anything. That is for the
young. I only began posting to this group in the first place because of all
the liberal cant and hypocrisy that I detected here. And then there were
the Bush bashers whose only aim in life was to bash Bush. My role here is
limited and I am content to play out the hand I have been dealt.

Quoted message said:

I don't think its a gender thing: I think it goes to maturity, and
the patience to be open minded and respectful.

It has ever been one of the interests in my life to see how different men
and women are from one another. Gender explains an awful lot. We men are
killers and women are not. They are concerned with new life almost to the
exclusion of everything else. We men only pretend to be concerned with new
life. But we are killers and we all know it.

Quoted message said:

OTOH, I have heard that extreme exercise can bring extremely high
levels of testosterone, and this can make man or woman extremely
aggressive and disagreeable.

Women athletes are highly abnormal and most likely have a hormonal
imbalance. Many woman athletes look more like men than some men do

Quoted message said:

Maybe its a hormonal thing. Perhaps rest would help you?

I will soon be resting in my grave for all eternity.

Quoted message said:

You too could be peacemaker, and maybe even persuade folks that you
are right, that is if you wanted to...

Nope, not interested!

Quoted message said:

Its up to you I suppose. If you did that, even more people would
listen to you Ed. Why not share one of your great ride stories with
us?

I am here for off-topic only to keep ARBR cleansed of dirty rotten liberal
posts. I would rather rule in Hell with Mr. Sherman than serve in Heaven
with you! See what I mean about us men being killers?

Quoted message said:

All the best Ed,

Same to you kiddo!

--
Best Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Freewheeling" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Melanie:

As a general rule I top post, although if it's in direct response to
something in the thread I usually quote that. That's a form or procedure
that's often used on web forums where bandwidth *is* an issue. It's also
used in email listserves, and has become something of a necessity in the
blogging world, where it goes under the name "fisking." Often, if I'm in

a

Quoted message said:

hurry I simply don't read a messasge that isn't top posted, because it

takes

Quoted message said:

too long to scroll to something that might not be interesting anyway. If
you can easily see a response, or at least a quote that the author

considers

Quoted message said:

important, it's easy to decide whether you want to read more.

Trolls hate top posting, for some reason. Well, they hate a lot of stuff,
including themselves.

--
--Scott

Everything Scott says above is highly academic because he takes the
precaution of bottom posting the ENTIRE previous post to which he is
responding. It is hard do find fault with this method as everything is there
for context. Nonetheless, I do not believe top posting is any more
efficacious than bottom posting.

Take the present post for instance. Unless I have been following this thread
I will have to read the previous message in its entirely down below in order
to know fully what is being discussed. Scott should have posted Melanie's
first paragraph at the top of his post so that we wouldn't have to read
down to find out what it is that he is responding to. There is no such thing
as a direct response on a newsgroup unless it is just idle chit chat. One
must always consider other readers and how they are understanding what is
being said.

One final thought, maybe if you are in such a god awful hurry to get on with
other things you should forget about newsgroups altogether. I must admit
they do take some time and I have not found any shortcuts.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Quoted message said:

"Melanie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ed, you wrote:

You are effecting a letter writing style as opposed to a newsgroup
posting
style.

Reply:

No, on many ng, the "style" you referred to is actually a rule. Its
certainly something unique to the internet, to assist individuals with
lower end computers, or who are very busy and have very little time,
to be able to participate in a discussion.

The fact that some ng readers don't do their homework and don't read
to inform themselves shouldn't cause disrespect for the vast majority
who do Ed. I do hear in this that you think I edited you too much.
So I'll try and include a little more of what I am responding to so
you won't be so lost.

Ed, you also wrote:
But you are not contentious like I am and so others are not jumping
in on your messages and taking issue with everything you say.

Reply:

Some of what you say Ed doesn't have anything to do with bent bikes,
and that is why this NG exists. Everybody has political opinions of
one kind or another, but I personally don't think they belong here.
Nor do personal insults, because as you say "Everyone is reading what
we say". (well probably not, many NG readers either stop reading or
participating in a news group full of off topic posts, spam or flame
wars. Why do you think so many regulars left the newsgroup?)

You wrote: "I am the opposite of you. "

No, Ed, I think you WANT to be opposite of EVERYONE to get them to
respond to you-- watching your posts over the years, I hypothesize you
go outside the rules and etiquette because you want attention.
Perhaps you are lonely and this is the only way to get attention so
folks will respond to you-- let you know that you matter, and that you
are thought about...."

The thing is Ed, you do matter, even if you were to stay on topic and
try and think about the majority of readers who do read your posts.
You have so much to contribute from your life experience, your rides,
and your bikes. You have wisdom.

But it gets lost when in setting out to deliberately inflame people.
You lose your ability to persuade, to get respect and change lives and
minds, when you set up to be deliberately off topic and contrarian all
the time.

I don't think its a gender thing: I think it goes to maturity, and
the patience to be open minded and respectful.

OTOH, I have heard that extreme exercise can bring extremely high
levels of testosterone, and this can make man or woman extremely
aggressive and disagreeable.

Maybe its a hormonal thing. Perhaps rest would help you?

You too could be peacemaker, and maybe even persuade folks that you
are right, that is if you wanted to...

Its up to you I suppose. If you did that, even more people would
listen to you Ed. Why not share one of your great ride stories with
us?

All the best Ed,

Keep riding....😉

Melanie

wrong 100%, AGAIN...

newsgroups were created to be
agents of chaos

Doofus grovellingly snivelled:

Quoted message said:

Yes, newsgroup posting is all about rules, which I observe and you don't.

"bil" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zZ7Ec.3402$151.1224@fed1read02...

Quoted message said:

wrong 100%, AGAIN...

newsgroups were created to be
agents of chaos

Doofus grovellingly snivelled:

Quoted message said:

Yes, newsgroup posting is all about rules, which I observe and you

don't.

I think at long last I do agree with bil about something. Ever since I came
on this newsgroup my brains have been scrambled and I can't seem to keep to
a coherent thought anymore. I blame Mr. Sherman for all my troubles in this
regard. He was put here by the Devil for the sole purpose of driving me
stark raving mad.

And then there are the gadflies like this bil character who keeps circling
me like a vulture. A grand tragedy is being played out here to a chorus of
idiots. The Lilliputians are tying the one great intellect of this newsgroup
to the ground. That would be me of course. But beware one and all, oh you of
the minutiae - giants like myself can rise from the grave to smite you and
sweep you from ARBR like the pestiferous insects that you are.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota

again......
that would explain a lot
;-)

Quoted message said:

ants like myself can rise from the grave