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RAAM

Started by Heinz Getzler · · Last activity · 31 posts · 1,073 views

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Road Cycling
Published
19 June 2003
Last activity
20 June 2003
Original author
Heinz Getzler
Posts
31
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  1. "Jeff Potter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    A "Great American Tour" could have tons of different routes and still hop across the US in 2 or 3
    weeks every year.

    The Zinger/Classic was put on by ONE GUY, basically.

    uh huh.

    Quoted message said:

    You could have longer than usual days and more transfers. Or just have the dudes bus a ways each
    day. We have the FREEWAYS, baby, that Europe doesn't have!

    Autobahn anyone?

    Quoted message said:

    Smoove and easy to sleep on and we have BUSES galore.

    They've got something better. Trains.

    They've also got something else: an established bike racing fan base.

  2. in article [email hidden], Jeff Potter at [email hidden]
    wrote on 6/19/03 5:37 PM:

    Quoted message said:

    A "Great American Tour" could have tons of different routes and still hop across the US in 2 or 3
    weeks every year.

    The Zinger/Classic was put on by ONE GUY, basically.

    You could have longer than usual days and more transfers. Or just have the dudes bus a ways each
    day. We have the FREEWAYS, baby, that Europe doesn't have! Smoove and easy to sleep on and we have
    BUSES galore.

    You could connect the dots with worldclass scenery and 200-mile stages and be done in short order
    and still go from coast to coast each year.

    The RAAM could be a stage race no problemo.

    It's a nutty thing right now, with the no-sleep, but it's only, what, 8 days, or 6 days for teams.
    Just have the whole show stop each night for a decent rest and you can get across the US without
    any transfers in probably 2 weeks.

    How about just 2 transfers:

    Part 1: Boston to Washington, transfer to Pittsburg. Part 2: Pittsburg to Chicago, transfer to San
    Francisco Part 3: San Francisco to San Diego

    You get all 3 major megalopolises, key for marketing, with only 2 transfers. With a rest day on the
    transfer days, staff could drive the vehicles. The only hard one would be San Fran-Chicago.

    You could also do this in reverse, of course.

  3. "Jeff Potter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:


    The Zinger/Classic was put on by ONE GUY, basically.


    You're right (at least in the early years), but he also started doing it in wide open Colorado in
    the late '70's, before there were many liability issues to deal with and roads were much more
    accessible. Then he gradually made it larger. I don't think it's even possible to race on the Morgul
    Bismarck course anymore, due to subdivisions.

    Quoted message said:

    You could have longer than usual days and more transfers.

    You also have to comply with UCI standards.

    Quoted message said:

    Or just have the dudes bus a ways each day.

    Ever tried transfer like that on a multi week stage race? Ain't NOBODY happy 'bout dat.

    Quoted message said:

    We have the FREEWAYS, baby, that Europe doesn't have! Smoove and easy to sleep on and we have
    BUSES galore.

    Minor league baseball teams probably don't even travel by bus anymore.

    Quoted message said:


    You could connect the dots with worldclass scenery and 200-mile stages and


    be

    Quoted message said:

    done in short order and still go from coast to coast each year.

    Who wants to ride 200 mile stages day in and day out? How slow would the peloton go?

  4. Antti Salonen said:
    Raptor said:

    Nonsense! You're thinking in a box. Our traditions from 2000+ years ago are in many ways more
    noble, beautiful and fascinating than those of Europe.

    This is probably a stupid question, but whose traditions are you talking about? For a vast
    majority of Americans, "your" traditions from 2000+ years ago are the same as European traditions.

    -as

    American Indians. I've forgotten much of my European history, but weren't there plenty of cultures
    wiped out over the centuries? Cultures that had their own traditions, many of which are lost
    forever. Some of ours from that time, at least, are still alive. I honestly can't think of anything
    that old that survives, but we've got plenty of 1000 and 1500 year old stuff sitting around in our
    deserts and plains.

    --
    --
    Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
    could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
    charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

  5. Carl Sundquist said:


    Who wants to ride 200 mile stages day in and day out?

    That was once normal in the Tour de France - on bad roads.

    Quoted message said:

    How slow would the peloton go?

    As slow as it takes to catch any a**hole break on a given day 🙂 They are not riding balls-out now,
    as a comparison of the normal peloton speed to a team time trial clearly demonstrates.

    Base the prizes in part on average speed. Should get the pace up.

  6. "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Naw, how about The Spanish Inquisition?

    That's it, The Spanish Inquisition. All we have is the Salem Witch


    Trials,

    Quoted message said:

    that pales by comparison.

    We have the modern day corporate backed inquisitions. Not very well known but very real are the
    latest rash of Grand Juries targeting activists. You better answer the subpoena that calls you to a
    court 3000 miles away or the FBI will come and arrest you (I guess the trip costs less that way).
    You're not allowed a lawyer. If you want to plead the fifth you get 18 months in jail for contempt.
    All because you sent a letter or a fax to a company saying you disagree with their business
    practices.

    nocompromise.org06gjs.html santacruz.indymedia.org4676
    sf.indymedia.org1620183.php

  7. "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Naw, how about The Spanish Inquisition?

    That's it, The Spanish Inquisition. All we have is the Salem Witch


    Trials,

    Quoted message said:

    that pales by comparison.

    TRAIL OF TEARS

    The Trail of Tears refers to the route followed by fifteen thousand Cherokee during their 1838
    removal and forced march from Georgia to Indian Territory (present-day Oklahoma).

    In 1791, a U.S. treaty had recognized Cherokee territory in Georgia as independent, and the Cherokee
    people had created a thriving republic with a written constitution. For decades, the state of
    Georgia sought to enforce its authority over the Cherokee Nation, but its efforts had little effect
    until the election of President Andrew Jackson, a longtime supporter of Indian removal. Although the
    Supreme Court declared Congress's 1830 Indian removal bill unconstitutional (Worcester v. Georgia,
    1832), the national and state harassment continued, culminating in the rounding up of the Cherokee
    by troops in 1838.

    The Cherokee were forced to abandon their property, livestock, and ancestral burial grounds and move
    to camps in Tennessee. From there, in the midst of severe winter weather, they were marched another
    eight hundred miles to Indian Territory. An estimated four thousand people - over 25 percent of the
    Cherokee Nation - died during the march.

    The Trail of Tears, the path the Cherokee followed, became a national monument in 1987, serving as a
    symbol of the wrongs suffered by Indians at the hands of the U.S. government.

    historychannel.com

  8. "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "Heinz Getzler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Well my idea is to capture the interia of the RAAM. Perhaps we could morph it into a stage race
    format???

    I really don't see that happening, although the blossoming ofthe RAAM team event has been great.
    RAAM and stage races are just two different breeds with two and too different mindsets to morph.


    It would depend upon what their race status. I am not certain if the UCI or USCF has jurisdiction. I
    believe they do because when lawsuit over the NORBA and Pro cycling league took place the courts
    dertermined that the USCF and UCI have jurisdiction on all bicycle races in the US. This would allow
    a proposal to a sponsor to enhance the format of the race.. They, and their participants,

    Quoted message said:

    should each be appreciated for what they are.

  9. "Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Antti Salonen said:
    Raptor said:

    Nonsense! You're thinking in a box. Our traditions from 2000+ years ago are in many ways more
    noble, beautiful and fascinating than those of Europe.

    This is probably a stupid question, but whose traditions are you talking about? For a vast
    majority of Americans, "your" traditions from 2000+ years ago are the same as European
    traditions.

    -as

    American Indians. I've forgotten much of my European history, but weren't there plenty of cultures
    wiped out over the centuries? Cultures that had their own traditions, many of which are lost
    forever. Some of ours from that time, at least, are still alive. I honestly can't think of
    anything that old that survives, but we've got plenty of 1000 and 1500 year old stuff sitting
    around in our deserts and plains.

    I've got Bonsai trees older than that! <g>

    Dashii

  10. "Heinz Getzler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Heinz Getzler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Well my idea is to capture the interia of the RAAM. Perhaps we could morph it into a stage
    race format???

    I really don't see that happening, although the blossoming ofthe RAAM


    team

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    event has been great. RAAM and stage races are just two different


    breeds

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    with two and too different mindsets to morph.


    It would depend upon what their race status. I am not certain if the UCI or USCF has jurisdiction.
    I believe they do because when lawsuit over the NORBA and Pro cycling league took place the courts
    dertermined that the USCF and UCI have jurisdiction on all bicycle races in the US. This would
    allow a proposal to a sponsor to enhance the format of the race.. They, and their participants,

    Quoted message said:

    should each be appreciated for what they are.

    While the UCI/USAC is supposed to control all bicycle racing in the US, the USAC has effectively
    ceeded control/sanctioning of ultramarathon events to UMCA. This was discussed here at some length a
    year or so ago. Not so stage racing. A stage race as you propose would be wonderful but I doubt it
    will occur here in the US at any point in the next decade. However, RAAM with its
    eccentric/obsessive participants will continue and probably grow as the team aspect has over the
    past few years.

  11. Dashi Toshii said:


    "Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Antti Salonen said:

    Raptor <[email hidden]> wrote:

    >Nonsense! You're thinking in a box. Our traditions from 2000+ years ago are in many ways more
    >noble, beautiful and fascinating than those of Europe.

    This is probably a stupid question, but whose traditions are you talking about? For a vast
    majority of Americans, "your" traditions from 2000+ years ago are the same as European
    traditions.

    -as

    American Indians. I've forgotten much of my European history, but weren't there plenty of
    cultures wiped out over the centuries? Cultures that had their own traditions, many of which are
    lost forever. Some of ours from that time, at least, are still alive. I honestly can't think of
    anything that old that survives, but we've got plenty of 1000 and 1500 year old stuff sitting
    around in our deserts and plains.

    I've got Bonsai trees older than that! <g>

    Dashii

    We have 4000 year old sequoias. On a bicycle ride in 1995 I stopped at the Medicine Wheel in
    Wyoming. It's 2000 years old. And above 10,000 feet (3000m)

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