quote from stage 5

"bjorn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Post race press conf:

Jim Birrell (race director): "When we announced the route I envisioned
a different leader every day (Levi smiles) So I put myself on the
spot. We will have to see what to do about that in the future."

Levi: We need a mountain top finish! (Levi looks to audience) How
many of you want a mountain top finish (pretty much all hands go up).
Now I put you on the spot, Jim...

Nacimiento-Fergusson Rd. with the finish in Jolon!

Quoted message said:

Post race press conf:

Jim Birrell (race director): "When we announced the route I envisioned
a different leader every day (Levi smiles) So I put myself on the
spot. We will have to see what to do about that in the future."

Levi: We need a mountain top finish! (Levi looks to audience) How
many of you want a mountain top finish (pretty much all hands go up).
Now I put you on the spot, Jim...

If Jim Birrell wanted the race lead to change hands, and the race, in
general, to be more interesting, there should have been more time bonuses.

He wants the races to end in big cities where they can attract substantial
crowds, and the desire to enhance viewability with circuits at the end gets
in the way of non-group finishes. That plus traffic control issues means
that he's intentionally trying to keep the riders together. But he can still
add a lot of drama to the GC podium with time bonuses for sprints & climbs.

The race is also just long enough for teams to be a major factor, and just
short enough that protecting your lead each day isn't an option, it's a
requirement. That makes for pretty conservative riding.

A mountain-top finish would certainly add something to the race, but you'd
want to put it toward the end, maybe the day before the finishing criterium.
It would certainly introduce a significant wild-card to the possible
finishing order if a pure climber, having a great day, could drop everyone
and take the GC, even if he'd had a mediocre TT.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

A mountain-top finish would certainly add something to the race, but you'd
want to put it toward the end, maybe the day before the finishing criterium.
It would certainly introduce a significant wild-card to the possible
finishing order if a pure climber, having a great day, could drop everyone
and take the GC, even if he'd had a mediocre TT.

I agree. The finishing climb should be in the San Gabriel mountains. Nothing
too long -- no Eastern Sierra type stuff (1500 meters gained typical). Strong
preference for something with ready access from multiple sides, to afford access.

Suggestions?

Combined with the Sierra Rd climb in San Jose, or maybe San Antonio Valley Road
over Mt Hamilton, it would make for a nice mix to the stage race.

Dan

On 24 Feb 2007 09:33:47 -0800, "wimpyVO2" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The ToC can achieve both (bigger crowds and mountain stages) by
getting a better spot on the calendar. I know that horse has been beat
to death here before. A summer or fall calendar date would mean warm
and dry weather, bigger crowds, and opens up the Sierras for true
mountain stages.

That'd also guarantee a weaker field.

--
JT
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"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 24 Feb 2007 09:33:47 -0800, "wimpyVO2" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The ToC can achieve both (bigger crowds and mountain stages) by
getting a better spot on the calendar. I know that horse has been beat
to death here before. A summer or fall calendar date would mean warm
and dry weather, bigger crowds, and opens up the Sierras for true
mountain stages.

That'd also guarantee a weaker field.

Unibet can probably fit it in their schedule.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The ToC can achieve both (bigger crowds and mountain stages) by
getting a better spot on the calendar. I know that horse has been beat
to death here before. A summer or fall calendar date would mean warm
and dry weather, bigger crowds, and opens up the Sierras for true
mountain stages.

That'd also guarantee a weaker field.

It would also guarantee less cooperation from the various authorities, as
the peak traffic season coincides with the race. One of the best things
about holding the race in February is that it competes with few other
sports, so it gets great coverage (much better than expected) in the
newspapers and TV, plus the California Highway Patrol is strongly on-board.
Neither would be the case later in the season.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Post race press conf:

Quoted message said:

Jim Birrell (race director): "When we announced the route I envisioned
a different leader every day (Levi smiles) So I put myself on the
spot. We will have to see what to do about that in the future."

Quoted message said:

Levi: We need a mountain top finish! (Levi looks to audience) How
many of you want a mountain top finish (pretty much all hands go up).
Now I put you on the spot, Jim...

If Jim Birrell wanted the race lead to change hands, and the race, in
general, to be more interesting, there should have been more time bonuses.

He wants the races to end in big cities where they can attract substantial
crowds, and the desire to enhance viewability with circuits at the end gets
in the way of non-group finishes. That plus traffic control issues means
that he's intentionally trying to keep the riders together. But he can still
add a lot of drama to the GC podium with time bonuses for sprints & climbs.

The race is also just long enough for teams to be a major factor, and just
short enough that protecting your lead each day isn't an option, it's a
requirement. That makes for pretty conservative riding.

A mountain-top finish would certainly add something to the race, but you'd
want to put it toward the end, maybe the day before the finishing criterium.
It would certainly introduce a significant wild-card to the possible
finishing order if a pure climber, having a great day, could drop everyone
and take the GC, even if he'd had a mediocre TT.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Idyllwild is plausible. It's already kind of a destination spot, and
has multiple roads for access. Palomar isn't bad, but doesn't have
the cachet and is shorter.

Hamilton is too inaccessible, though I'd have enjoyed a route from
Stockton, Patterson pass, Mines Rd, and Hamilton into San Jose.

Diablo is out of the question because of access, though it would make
a fun TT in a multi-week race. No sponsorship opportunity though,
being in a park.

Tam isn't hard enough, also no sponsorship chance being a park.

-dB

dbrower said:

Idyllwild is plausible. It's already kind of a destination spot, and
has multiple roads for access. Palomar isn't bad, but doesn't have
the cachet and is shorter.

Hamilton is too inaccessible, though I'd have enjoyed a route from
Stockton, Patterson pass, Mines Rd, and Hamilton into San Jose.

Diablo is out of the question because of access, though it would make
a fun TT in a multi-week race. No sponsorship opportunity though,
being in a park.

Tam isn't hard enough, also no sponsorship chance being a park.

Palomar, Diablo, and Tam are all too far north if the race is going to finish in
SoCal.

The climb doesn't need to be huge, anyway. It doesn't need to swamp out every
other stage. Diablo, Hamilton, or Palomar would be a bit much. If Idyllwild is
longer than Palomar, that would be too long for anything near balance.
Remember: Sierra Rd is only 1800 vertical.

Dan

Dan Connelly said:

Palomar, Diablo, and Tam are all too far north if the race is going
to finish in SoCal.

Palomar is in San Diego county.

Robert Chung said:

Dan Connelly said:

Palomar, Diablo, and Tam are all too far north if the race is going
to finish in SoCal.

Palomar is in San Diego county.

Whoops... I meant Hamilton, Diablo, and Tam....

WRT Hamilton -- I see that as a viable alternative to Sierra Rd, except that San
Antonio Valley Road (north side of Hamilton) is much less spectator-friendly
than Sierra, as it's more remote. Hamilton Rd (the south side, towards San
Jose) is a decently technical descent.

Dan

Quoted message said:

WRT Hamilton -- I see that as a viable alternative to Sierra Rd, except
that San Antonio Valley Road (north side of Hamilton) is much less
spectator-friendly than Sierra, as it's more remote. Hamilton Rd (the
south side, towards San Jose) is a decently technical descent.

Dan

So you bring them down Hamilton... and finsih with a kicker back up Quimby.
OUCH!

Or, more seriously, run the stage as-is (Calaveras, Piedmont...) but skip
the Sierra Road section and add in Quimby to finish.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

On Feb 24, 11:32 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On 24 Feb 2007 09:33:47 -0800, "wimpyVO2" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The ToC can achieve both (bigger crowds and mountain stages) by
getting a better spot on the calendar. I know that horse has been beat
to death here before. A summer or fall calendar date would mean warm
and dry weather, bigger crowds, and opens up the Sierras for true
mountain stages.

That'd also guarantee a weaker field.

Not if the purse was big enough.

At Long Beach today the Tour of California riders will finish
competing for $165,000 of prize money. Meanwhile, 60 miles to the east
in Fontana, NASCAR drivers will be racing for a $6,000,000 purse at
the Auto Club 500. What's ironic about that is that there was a time
when NASCAR was similar to cycling in California -- looked upon by
most as a cult sport that no one cares about.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

WRT Hamilton -- I see that as a viable alternative to Sierra Rd, except
that San Antonio Valley Road (north side of Hamilton) is much less
spectator-friendly than Sierra, as it's more remote. Hamilton Rd (the
south side, towards San Jose) is a decently technical descent.

Dan

So you bring them down Hamilton... and finsih with a kicker back up Quimby.
OUCH!

Or, more seriously, run the stage as-is (Calaveras, Piedmont...) but skip
the Sierra Road section and add in Quimby to finish.

SoCal will become totally irrelevant. They want to put the hilltop finish in
the second-to-last stage.

Dan

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dan Connelly d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m said:

Robert Chung said:

Dan Connelly said:

Palomar, Diablo, and Tam are all too far north if the race is going
to finish in SoCal.

Palomar is in San Diego county.

Quoted message said:

Whoops... I meant Hamilton, Diablo, and Tam....

WRT Hamilton -- I see that as a viable alternative to Sierra Rd, except that
San Antonio Valley Road (north side of Hamilton) is much less spectator-friendly
than Sierra, as it's more remote. Hamilton Rd (the south side, towards San
Jose) is a decently technical descent.

You're correct about San Antonio Valley Rd. - it is fairly isolated, but how many
people were out on Calaveras Rd (I didn't get a chance to go out there that day)?
Hamilton Rd. *is* a good descent and the two short climbs on it could make for a
little bit of regrouping. Turning off to Quimby would certainly add to it, though.

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

On 25 Feb 2007 10:03:45 -0800, "wimpyVO2" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Feb 24, 11:32 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On 24 Feb 2007 09:33:47 -0800, "wimpyVO2" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The ToC can achieve both (bigger crowds and mountain stages) by
getting a better spot on the calendar. I know that horse has been beat
to death here before. A summer or fall calendar date would mean warm
and dry weather, bigger crowds, and opens up the Sierras for true
mountain stages.

That'd also guarantee a weaker field.

Not if the purse was big enough.

At Long Beach today the Tour of California riders will finish
competing for $165,000 of prize money. Meanwhile, 60 miles to the east
in Fontana, NASCAR drivers will be racing for a $6,000,000 purse at
the Auto Club 500. What's ironic about that is that there was a time
when NASCAR was similar to cycling in California -- looked upon by
most as a cult sport that no one cares about.

Yeah, just think, if the prize money was one billion dollars they
could have races there in July.
--
JT
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Visit http://www.jt10000.com
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On Feb 25, 2:32 am, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>

Quoted message said:

dbrower said:

Idyllwild is plausible. It's already kind of a destination spot, and
has multiple roads for access. Palomar isn't bad, but doesn't have
the cachet and is shorter.

Quoted message said:

Hamilton is too inaccessible, though I'd have enjoyed a route from
Stockton, Patterson pass, Mines Rd, and Hamilton into San Jose.

Quoted message said:

Diablo is out of the question because of access, though it would make
a fun TT in a multi-week race. No sponsorship opportunity though,
being in a park.

Quoted message said:

Tam isn't hard enough, also no sponsorship chance being a park.

Palomar, Diablo, and Tam are all too far north if the race is going to finish in
SoCal.

The climb doesn't need to be huge, anyway. It doesn't need to swamp out every
other stage. Diablo, Hamilton, or Palomar would be a bit much. If Idyllwild is
longer than Palomar, that would be too long for anything near balance.
Remember: Sierra Rd is only 1800 vertical.

Dan

Simple...stage finish up Gibraltar Road to the top of La Cumbre in
Santa Barbara. Repeat the SLO to SB stage from last year, but have
the finish at the top of La Cumbre peak (I know...that's redundant for
any spanish speakers) instead of at the beach.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So you bring them down Hamilton... and finsih with a kicker back up
Quimby. OUCH!

Or, more seriously, run the stage as-is (Calaveras, Piedmont...) but skip
the Sierra Road section and add in Quimby to finish.

SoCal will become totally irrelevant. They want to put the hilltop finish
in the second-to-last stage.

Dan

You have a point somewhere, just trying to figure out why I shouldn't
respond with "So????????"

I do agree that a hill-top finish stage shouldn't occur any later than two
stages before the finish. Had there been one the day before the Santa
Clarita stage, you still might have had time for the teams to react and do
something about it (and make the race interesting). I guess I just don't
want everything important to move too far southward. NorCal rules, y'know?

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com