Quit knocking Zabel.

mitosis said:

Is O'Grady out of Le Tour?

No, not to my knowledge. He could do without it though. Ok French team and he´s a leader there but he has always spread himself too thin and concentrated on that Green for too long. Pretty sure hes without a win still this year.

oely said:

No, not to my knowledge. He could do without it though. Ok French team and he´s a leader there but he has always spread himself too thin and concentrated on that Green for too long. Pretty sure hes without a win still this year.

He's never quite made it as a pure sprinter.

As you said, he's had to spread himself pretty thinly over the last few years.

He doesn't quite fit into any one category. Although he's got a huge heart he hasn't quite got the TT and climbing to be a real threat in the GC.

It was great to see him earn a gold at the last Olympics. He's had a lot of second places and he's supported a lot of other riders in his career.

And he's Australian.

JU: "The decision wasn't easy for me, or Erik or the team. Erik would have deserved a spot on the team but if you've got the chance to win the Tour, you've got to go all out for that. I feel honoured the team is tailored to me."

At least he thinks the team is tailored to him, :p with his crony friend Tobias S (who is not otherwise a good domestique!)

Velonews adds more insight:

"As the nine riders lined up on stage of the T-Mobile auditorium in Bonn on Wednesday, one lone fan yelled from the back of the audience "Where is Zabel?" Kummer, looked uncomfortable, shrugged his shoulders and said, "I don't know either." "This has been a possibility for a while," said Kummer. "We first started discussing it back in the fall, but the final decision was made only two weeks ago. For us, a lot depended on the fitness of Jan Ullrich, on Vinokourov and Klöden. All three are showing great form - Vino' was in great shape by May, Ullrich rode strongly in Gippingen and Klöden is improving. We had to make the decision to focus on the general classification." Director Olaf Ludwig said that the decision to exclude Zabel from the team was a difficult one. "It's been a question for us for some time now," Ludwig said. "When we made the decision, I was the one to call him and tell him that he wasn't going to do the Tour. It wasn't a pleasant conversation, but it was frank and honest." "This was not just a question about Erik, though," Ludwig added. "It would have not been easy for him fighting for the jersey. There would have been no one from the team working for him. He would have been on his own in the sprints. This year, he wouldn't even have had Rolf Aldag with him." The decision, noted Ludwig, does not reflect anything more than the team's priorities for this Tour de France.... "If a team wants to win the yellow jersey, a team needs to focus on that at the exclusion of everything else," Klöden added. "It's an argument I've made in the past. Still, Erik is one of the world's best at what he does. I respect that and would have been happy had he been on the team, too. I plan to call him in the next few days and speak with him.""

Cyclingnews:

"[Kummer] later explained that the team leadership started discussing the team make-up last fall, discussions which continued until two weeks ago. "Then we had to make a decision." A review of the major riders showed Ullrich and Vinokourov in good form and Klöden improving, and the decision was made. Ullrich, who gave his input in to the decision-making process, said, "Such a decision is always difficult - Erik deserved a spot, but we want to concentrate one hundred percent on the yellow jersey.""

Then, who gets the spot but... Tobias S ... and a young newbie?! 😕

musette said:

Cyclingnews:

"[Kummer] later explained that the team leadership started discussing the team make-up last fall, discussions which continued until two weeks ago. "Then we had to make a decision." A review of the major riders showed Ullrich and Vinokourov in good form and Klöden improving, and the decision was made. Ullrich, who gave his input in to the decision-making process, said, "Such a decision is always difficult - Erik deserved a spot, but we want to concentrate one hundred percent on the yellow jersey.""

Then, who gets the spot but... Tobias S ... and a young newbie?! 😕

Tobias Steinhauser can time trial a bit - maybe good for stage 4, TTT.

Zabel is quitting TM. That is not a bad development for JU, because the lack of a need to pay Zabel next year will open up more budget room for the recruitment of mountain domestiques, which JU needs more of. :p TM website says:

"T-Mobile made Zabel an offer, which would extend beyond his professional racing career, and which would take into account his enormous achievements as the most successful sprinter in German cycling history. The two parties failed to agree the full terms of the complete package, however. "I regret the outcome of the negotiations,“ says future team manager Olaf Ludwig. „Erik was the subject of other offers, which gave him a new sporting challenge,“ continues Ludwig. Erik Zabel describes it as „a real pity that we couldn’t reach an agreement. Both parties had their own ideas, which we couldn’t agree to“. But that is „nothing exceptional in professional sport. I will walk away with many great memories and as a friend.“ After 13 years in magenta the chance to „enter new sporting territory “ appeals to him. According to Zabel, his failure to land a starting place at the Tour de France ... had no bearing on the outcome of the negotiations; „absolutely nothing to do with it. It was difficult for me, but I was eventually able to put that behind me.“ „We would like to have committed ourselves further to Erik Zabel“, says Martin Knauer, director of marketing at T-Mobile Deutschland... Furthermore, Erik Zabel... won’t announce the team he is switching to until a later date."

That means Zabel is not retiring. He's just not racing with TM next season. Maybe Gerolsteiner. 😕

Zabel says:

"Q: Erik Zabel, from 2006 you and the T-Mobile Team will go your separate ways. What precipitated this decision? Erik Zabel: The contract negotiations with the T-Mobile showed that we have some different points of view. I don't want to go into the finer details, as we have agreed to keep them confidential. But I can say one thing: the differences were not financially based. I have decided to take another attractive option."

That means he probably wanted to ride the Tour de France in 2006 and 2007, I think. 🙂

"But, in any case, I want to continue on the bike for another three years."

Use the budget amount for Zabel to try and recruit a major climbing domestique or two. That budget amount is probably at least 1 milion euro, if not more than that. That can buy at least one "star" mountain domestique, if not two.

Zabel had a good financial offer from TM; Zabel initially felt he should have gotten more, in view of all his prior service to TM. However, TM felt that what it ended up offering financially already reflected some of Zabel's past successes. That means the offer was not too bad from a financial perspective. Zabel himself confirms the straw that broke the camel's back was not financial (it was probably TdF participation, in my book).

Yep, that's the only reason.............Zabel is famous for 6 green jerseys and 12 tourettappe wins, wouldn't you want to be there???

musette said:

Use the budget amount for Zabel to try and recruit a major climbing domestique or two. That budget amount is probably at least 1 milion euro, if not more than that. That can buy at least one "star" mountain domestique, if not two.

Zabel had a good financial offer from TM; Zabel initially felt he should have gotten more, in view of all his prior service to TM. However, TM felt that what it ended up offering financially already reflected some of Zabel's past successes. That means the offer was not too bad from a financial perspective. Zabel himself confirms the straw that broke the camel's back was not financial (it was probably TdF participation, in my book).

MJtje said:

Yep, that's the only reason.............Zabel is famous for 6 green jerseys and 12 tourettappe wins, wouldn't you want to be there???

Of course Zabel has accomplished major things in this impressive career. I have never argued with that. The question is: Is Zabel now helpful to JU's winning the TdF GC in 2006? And the answer is: NO.

The natural next question is: Is it better for JU's chances of winning the TdF GC if Zabel were not only not on the TdF team, but also not on the TM team. The answer is: Yes. Zabel's departure frees up monies that could be spent on the right type of climbing domestique.

So does Vino's departure, by the way. TM must choose very carefully how it spends the monies freed up. Recruitment is the first step to helping JU win the TdF. :o

Edited for emphasis

Ofcourse youre right on this.........on the other hand with Basso do you really see ullrich winning...........! IF everything goes perfect in 2006 (must be 1997 form) then Ullrich can win the TDF again. IF not, then Basso will win a couple of years the TDF now!

musette said:

Of course Zabel has accomplished major things in this very impressive career. I have never argued with that. The question is: Is Zabel now helpful to JU's winning the TdF GC in 2006? And the answer is: NO. Not only should he continue to be excluded in 2006 from the TdF TM team (which is moot, since he is leaving the team), but his DEPARTURE IS A PLUS for JU. It frees up monies that could be spent on the right type of climbing domestique.

It is not an insult to a cyclist to say that he is past his prime, he no longer can win over the best in his category (in this case: sprinters), he should retire (or go to a team where his worth is not measured solely by his wins, such as Gerolsteiner and the German public appeal of Zabel). :p

Jep got to agree again😉 (how's that for a change that someone agrees with you haha). I said in another thread that he is passed his prime and he should go to a smaller team or just retire..........still one of the best palmares around in cycling, a class act!

musette said:

It is not an insult to a cyclist to say that he is past his prime, he no longer can win over the best in his category (in this case: sprinters), he should retire. :p

musette said:

Of course Zabel has accomplished major things in this impressive career. I have never argued with that. The question is: Is Zabel now helpful to JU's winning the TdF GC in 2006? And the answer is: NO.

Edited for emphasis

yeah and Ullrich was abel to the 1997 tour even with Zabel in the tour, but oh I forgot, that's before Armstrong became superhuman, SO YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYTHING BEFORE THEN! 😄

L'Equipe says:

"«Je pense que j'aurais mérité mieux. Ce départ est très difficile pour moi. J'ai négocié avec Olaf Ludwig (ndlr: directeur sportif de T-Mobile), mais nous ne sommes pas tombés d'accord. Je n'ai pas encore signé le contrat avec ma nouvelle équipe et donc je ne peux encore citer son nom», a-t-il déclaré."

Roughly translated:

"'I think I deserved more [than what TM was last offering]. This departure [from TM] is very difficult for me. I negotiated with Olaf Ludwig, but we couldn't come to an agreement. I haven't signed my contract with my new team and I can't cite their name,' Zabel said."

If he hasn't officially signed with his new team, it's sort of not the best step to announce he is leaving TM, no? 😉

Times change. To cite 1997 and JU having won with Zabel on the team and before LA had his cancer/recovery, is to say that, if Basso and Valverde and the key contenders were not to ride in 2006, then JU could still have Zabel on the team and win! 😄

MJtje said:

Ofcourse youre right on this.........on the other hand with Basso do you really see ullrich winning...........! IF everything goes perfect in 2006 (must be 1997 form) then Ullrich can win the TDF again. IF not, then Basso will win a couple of years the TDF now!

The point is does Ullrich see himself winning. If he does, then he goes out to prove all the pundits wrong that are arguing for Basso, and he structures his team accordingly (now that, after 7 years, he has finally learned the need so to do). Maybe I am reading between the lines too much, but your statement makes no sense unless you thing that Ullrich should strive for his goal only if it is a sure thing.

musette said:

Of course Zabel has accomplished major things in this impressive career. I have never argued with that. The question is: Is Zabel now helpful to JU's winning the TdF GC in 2006? And the answer is: NO.

The natural next question is: Is it better for JU's chances of winning the TdF GC if Zabel were not only not on the TdF team, but also not on the TM team. The answer is: Yes. Zabel's departure frees up monies that could be spent on the right type of climbing domestique.

So does Vino's departure, by the way. TM must choose very carefully how it spends the monies freed up. Recruitment is the first step to helping JU win the TdF. :o

Edited for emphasis

Another question you can ask is : Did it really matter if Zabel was at the Tour or not? The answer is NO. Zabel was at the Tour last year and Ullrich didn't win. Zabel was not at the Tour this year and Ullrich still didn't win.
Basically what it boils down to is that the best rider wins. I don't care how many climbing domestiques Ullrich has on the team, he still would not have been able to beat Armstrong simply because Armstrong was better.

The point is not whether, with 20/20 hindsight, JU won. The question was, if TM wanted to provide the TM team that maximizes chances of JU's winning the GC, whether Zabel should have been on the team. Everybody could figure out LA was going to win this year, and I of course believed that. The question is what would most help JU.

musette said:

The point is not whether, with 20/20 hindsight, JU won. The question was, if TM wanted to provide the TM team that maximizes chances of JU's winning the GC, whether Zabel should have been on the team. Everybody could figure out LA was going to win this year, and I of course believed that. The question is what would most help JU.

Zabel separates from T-Mobile

Erik Zabel (T-Mobile)

After 13 seasons and 191 victories in the same colours, Erik Zabel has decided to leave T-Mobile, citing an inability to reach an agreement with the team where he began his career back in 1993.

Up until recently, the 35 year-old sprinter was expected to retire from cycling and pursue a career as a directeur-sportif on T-Mobile, a concept that the team publicly embraced. But in the past few months, a future vocation with the Bonn-based team appeared less likely, rumours that were no doubt circumvented following his exclusion from the 2005 Tour de France line-up. However, Zabel denies the latter event had anything to do with his decision, nor alludes to where his future may lie.

"It [the exclusion] was difficult for me, but I was eventually able to put that behind me," said Zabel in a team statement. "Both sides had their ideas, but we could not agree."

"I regret the exit of the negotiations," said team manager and former team-mate Olaf Ludwig. "Erik was also the subject of other offers, which offered a new sporting challenge."

Continued Zabel: "Nothing is unusual in the professional world [of cycling]. I leave with many beautiful memories and as a friend [of the team]. Olaf is the right man to smoothly oversee the transition within the team; in Michael Rogers and Patrik Sinekwitz, the team has signed up two young riders with enormous potential and will ensure a successful future for the T-Mobile brand."

T-Mobile's managing director of marketing in Germany, Martin Knauer, said "we would like to have committed ourselves further to Erik Zabel", thanking him for representing the company so well over the years and wished him success for the future. Meanwhile, Zabel will ride out the rest of the season in the magenta colours he has become so familiar with, and will disclose his future whereabouts at a later date.

Wow. I was just about to look this thread up.

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but I sort of think the Tour vindicates my argument here. Zabel wouldn't have hurt Jan's chances in the least. And with Boonen pulling out and McEwan being called for a foul, T_Mobile might have won another green jersey.

Zabel has never hurt Ulle in the Tour and excluding him from the Tour left out one of history's great riders. I hope Zabel finds a better team in now.