Cycling Equipment · Public discussion

Quiet 25 cc 2 Stroke Engines

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Cycling Equipment
Published
17 November 2003
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22 November 2003
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Bretcahill
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  1. Today NPR jumped onto the 2 wheel bandwagon with a piece on the Eagle conversion kit.

    250 mpg certainly has great appeal.

    My first concern was, is this "development" going to drown out the afterburners from the local air
    nat'l guard?

    My cycling friendly city is starting to remind me of a land based version of the scene from the Cold
    War era B movie _The Russians Are Coming_ where the Americans are floating everything they muster to
    escort their Russian submariner friends out to sea. Row boats, leaky canoes, rafts, etc.

    On one hand it's undeniably charming. On the other the noise is driving me crazy.

    Next kid who pulls up in a motor scooter drowning out my pontifications to cycling friends is going
    to get chased down and will have his spark plug confiscated.

    Bret Cahill

  2. "BretCahill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Today NPR jumped onto the 2 wheel bandwagon with a piece on the Eagle conversion kit.

    <<snip..>>

    Quoted message said:

    Bret Cahill

    As an aside, I find it somewhat interesting that emission and noise laws are so strict for
    automobiles, but 2-stroke smokers in seadoos, skidoos, outboards etc. are still in use.
    They're hideous polluters but they're still selling strong. I love the 2-stroke engine, but
    its time is past.

    Cheers,

    Scott..

  3. Hate it, hate it, hate it. I listened to the NPR piece. That engine is anything but quite. It sounds
    like a weed-wacker. The manager of the bike shop that installed it had some good advice for the
    reporter: "I think you should work harder, and get in better shape."

    "S. Anderson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "BretCahill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Today NPR jumped onto the 2 wheel bandwagon with a piece on the Eagle conversion kit.

    <<snip..>>

    Quoted message said:

    Bret Cahill

    As an aside, I find it somewhat interesting that emission and noise laws


    are

    Quoted message said:

    so strict for automobiles, but 2-stroke smokers in seadoos, skidoos, outboards etc. are still in
    use. They're hideous polluters but they're still selling strong. I love the 2-stroke engine, but
    its time is past.

    Cheers,

    Scott..

  4. "S. Anderson" <[email hidden]> in

    Quoted message said:

    Message-id: <[email hidden]> writes:

    . . .

    Quoted message said:

    I love the 2-stroke engine, but its time is past.

    It's hard to make any single cylinder engine quiet and it's hard to make small cylinder
    combustion clean.

    I hate the 2 stroke but I doubt its time is past.

    Bret Cahill

  5. [email hidden] (BretCahill) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Today NPR jumped onto the 2 wheel bandwagon with a piece on the Eagle conversion kit.

    250 mpg certainly has great appeal.

    My first concern was, is this "development" going to drown out the afterburners from the local air
    nat'l guard?

    My cycling friendly city is starting to remind me of a land based version of the scene from the
    Cold War era B movie _The Russians Are Coming_ where the Americans are floating everything they
    muster to escort their Russian submariner friends out to sea. Row boats, leaky canoes, rafts, etc.

    On one hand it's undeniably charming. On the other the noise is driving me crazy.

    Next kid who pulls up in a motor scooter drowning out my pontifications to cycling friends is
    going to get chased down and will have his spark plug confiscated.

    Bret Cahill

    whatever. BTW, when was the last time you saw a mo-ped? (for you young whippersnappers, mo-peds, was
    a flash in the mid-70s as an alternate transportation. i wish the same fate on the gas motorized
    razors tho it's a hoot to watch 'em for 20-mph on those dinkie wheels.)

  6. (BretCahill) may have said:

    Today NPR jumped onto the 2 wheel bandwagon with a piece on the Eagle conversion kit.

    250 mpg certainly has great appeal.

    My first concern was, is this "development" going to drown out the afterburners from the local air
    nat'l guard?

    My cycling friendly city is starting to remind me of a land based version of the scene from the
    Cold War era B movie _The Russians Are Coming_ where the Americans are floating everything they
    muster to escort their Russian submariner friends out to sea. Row boats, leaky canoes, rafts, etc.

    On one hand it's undeniably charming. On the other the noise is driving me crazy.

    Next kid who pulls up in a motor scooter drowning out my pontifications to cycling friends is going
    to get chased down and will have his spark plug confiscated.

    Personally, I'm not worried too much.

    First, I will note that a number of years ago, there was a brief flurry of appearance of new forms
    of bicycle assist motor (largely using a rubber wheel that bore on a tire to transfer power, not too
    efficiently in many cases) which was swiftly met with a flurry of restrictive legislation in many
    states. Later, mopeds appeared to slip under the radar, but their popularity was very short-lived. I
    fully expect the current proliferation of motorized scooters to have the same effect in the very
    near future as these devices move from the realm of interesting new toy to hazard and threat to
    traffic. The first thing that I hope to see will be a requirement (where one does not already exist)
    that operators possess a valid driver's license, or that operators at least be of an age which would
    allow them to have a driver's license.

    The down side, of course, is that this will probably spill over, as it too often does, into a mania
    for regulating related devices. Be on guard.

    Second, however, I have seen far fewer of these scooters showing up on the streets than I had
    expected. I've seen prices falling simultaneous with the units showing up for sale outside such
    mobility-oriented businesses as a fortune teller, a VCR repair shop, a couple of second-hand
    furniture stores, an ice house[1], and a non-chain convenience store best known for the fact that it
    carries every form of magazine sold in an opaque plastic bag. This does not bespeak a product that's
    in high demand; the importers seem to be dumping units to any potential outlet indiscriminately.

    Third, related to the issue above, even though there seems to be a lot of sales activity, many of
    the scooters apparently don't stay in use for long. One of them recently popped up in the hands of
    someone down the street; it vanished from view fairly quickly. Scuttlebutt is that the beast was
    about as durable as chocolate shoelaces, and had a mechanical failure for which no parts were
    available. Many, if not most, of these scooters are being imported by people with neither the intent
    nor the resources to provide product support of any kind; the manufacturers are typically in China,
    and well out of reach for spare parts purposes. Once the word gets around that they're throwaway
    units, their appeal should drop considerably. This may already be taking place; it would go a long
    way toward explaining both the absurd selling practices and the presence of large numbers of
    derelict, stripped units in the back of a couple of import warehouses where I get some of the stuff
    that I re-sell myself. (I've been offered these scooters at some very attractive prices, by the way,
    but have had no urge to get involved with them at all.)

    Last but not least, in areas with EPA air quality issues, the two-cycle-engine forms may run afoul
    of air pollution regulations in any event. The electrics may slip under the radar, but those tend to
    be such short-duration units that I doubt they'll be any more viable than the Segway in the long
    run, if for a different set of reasons.

    In other words, I don't think the current scooter craze is going to take hold as strongly as might
    be feared, I doubt that it will last, and the reputations of the devices themselves will serve to
    bring about a loss of interest in them.

    Bicycle usage, meanwhile, seems to be slowly but steadily on the rise.

    [1] For those unfamiliar with the term "ice house" as used in Texas: An establishment dedicated to
    facilitating the consumption of alcoholic beverages without actually selling them or having a
    liquor license; they sell snacks, buckets of ice and "setups", but you bring your own booze.

    --
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
    don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy. Words processed in a facility that
    contains nuts.

  7. Rob Myhre said:

    Hate it, hate it, hate it. I listened to the NPR piece. That engine is anything but quite. It
    sounds like a weed-wacker. The manager of the bike shop that installed it had some good advice for
    the reporter: "I think you should work harder, and get in better shape."

    I don't like the noise either, our neighbor has one of those powered skateboard things. He does have
    fun with it.

    On the other hand, not everybody can be monster cycling studs (and studettes) like us. Anything that
    gets people out of cars and on bicycles can't be that bad.

    And I thought 2 stroke engines were being phased out for lawn equipment as a pollution control
    measure. Or is that just NY state?

    Jim

  8. N2VX' may have said:
    Rob Myhre said:

    Hate it, hate it, hate it. I listened to the NPR piece. That engine is anything but quite. It
    sounds like a weed-wacker. The manager of the bike shop that installed it had some good advice for
    the reporter: "I think you should work harder, and get in better shape."

    I don't like the noise either, our neighbor has one of those powered skateboard things. He does
    have fun with it.

    On the other hand, not everybody can be monster cycling studs (and studettes) like us. Anything
    that gets people out of cars and on bicycles can't be that bad.

    And I thought 2 stroke engines were being phased out for lawn equipment as a pollution control
    measure. Or is that just NY state?

    Parts of California are under a similar ban from what I hear, and there's a restriction that will go
    into effect here in Houston at some point as well, although I don't know how they'll get a jury to
    convict on any charge. It's not going to be illegal to sell or have the 2-cycle gear, just illegal
    to be caught using it during certain periods of the day. Since the city itself has a large
    collection of 2-cycle leaf blowers, weedwhackers and chain saws, I suspect that this is one reg that
    will get used only when a complaint is lodged.

    --
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
    don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy. Words processed in a facility that
    contains nuts.

  9. CA. has the right idea of banning the 2- stroke (I used to own a RD-350) . Just imagine being the
    "lycra-clad" cyclists this guy was passing up the hill. You are breathing in a whole roomfull of
    air with each heave and Mr blue smoke pulls alongside to gloat. Does testosterone poisioning
    constitute a defense for manslaughter? Thank goodness this will soon pass. Remember the moped?
    The Whizzer? Tom

    --
    Bruni Bicycles "Where art meets science" brunibicycles.com
    410.426.3420 Jim, N2VX <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Rob Myhre said:

    Hate it, hate it, hate it. I listened to the NPR piece. That engine is anything but quite. It
    sounds like a weed-wacker. The manager of the bike shop that installed it had some good advice
    for the reporter: "I think


    you

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    should work harder, and get in better shape."

    I don't like the noise either, our neighbor has one of those powered skateboard things. He does
    have fun with it.

    On the other hand, not everybody can be monster cycling studs (and studettes) like us. Anything
    that gets people out of cars and on bicycles can't be that bad.

    And I thought 2 stroke engines were being phased out for lawn equipment as a pollution control
    measure. Or is that just NY state?

    Jim

  10. [email hidden] (BretCahill) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Today NPR jumped onto the 2 wheel bandwagon with a piece on the Eagle conversion kit.

    250 mpg certainly has great appeal.

    My first concern was, is this "development" going to drown out the afterburners from the local air
    nat'l guard?

    My cycling friendly city is starting to remind me of a land based version of the scene from the
    Cold War era B movie _The Russians Are Coming_ where the Americans are floating everything they
    muster to escort their Russian submariner friends out to sea. Row boats, leaky canoes, rafts, etc.

    On one hand it's undeniably charming. On the other the noise is driving me crazy.

    Next kid who pulls up in a motor scooter drowning out my pontifications to cycling friends is
    going to get chased down and will have his spark plug confiscated.

    Top-posting coward, when are you going to stop dodging my bet?

    Jason

  11. (harvest dancer) may have said:

    Top-posting coward, when are you going to stop dodging my bet?

    WTF?

    Oh, I see.

    Plonk.

    --
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
    don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy. Words processed in a facility that
    contains nuts.

  12. (B.C. Cletta) may have said:

    BTW, when was the last time you saw a mo-ped? (for you young whippersnappers, mo-peds, was a flash
    in the mid-70s as an alternate transportation. i wish the same fate on the gas motorized razors tho
    it's a hoot to watch 'em for 20-mph on those dinkie wheels.)

    Nearly as amusing: I saw one of the electrics being carried up the grade of a railroad overpass
    nearby last week; the rider apparently discovered that the beast would not get him over that hill.

    Also, sign of the times: At a garage sale in the neighborhood just north of me this past Saturday,
    one of the items going begging was a gas-powered scooter that didn't run. It looked like it was less
    than 6 months old.

    If they get cheap enough that I can buy three of them new for under $50 total, so that I have two
    spares of everything, I might consider
    it...unless I have something better to blow the money on, like last week's lottery tickets.

    --
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
    don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy. Words processed in a facility that
    contains nuts.

  13. [email hidden] (BretCahill) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "S. Anderson" <[email hidden]> in

    Quoted message said:

    Message-id: <[email hidden]> writes:

    . . .

    Quoted message said:

    I love the 2-stroke engine, but its time is past.

    It's hard to make any single cylinder engine quiet and it's hard to make small cylinder
    combustion clean.

    I hate the 2 stroke but I doubt its time is past.

    Coward, when will you stop dodging my bet?

    Jason

  14. Bruni said:

    CA. has the right idea of banning the 2- stroke (I used to own a RD-350) .


    Me too... to both the ban and the RD-350

    I think there needs to be some way to allow the RD though... or another whole generation of teenage
    near-do-wells will feel the loss.

  15. RE/

    Quoted message said:

    And I thought 2 stroke engines were being phased out for lawn equipment as a pollution control
    measure. Or is that just NY state?

    What seems funny to me is that in the legal arena with things like jet skis, powered skate boards
    and the rest it seems like it's always safety or environmental issues - nobody's standing up and
    stating the real (to me, at least) issue: noise.
    --
    PeteCresswell

  16. Werehatrack said:

    [1] For those unfamiliar with the term "ice house" as used in Texas:

    Oh, I thought you meant an ice store. Strangely, we have those here in RI. Some just sell bags of
    cubes and really big blocks, and others make sculptures and everything.

    Quoted message said:

    An establishment dedicated to facilitating the consumption of alcoholic beverages without actually
    selling them or having a liquor license; they sell snacks, buckets of ice and "setups", but you
    bring your own booze.

    That does it. I'm moving to Texas.
    --
    Rick "Wait, my truck will need bigger tires there" Onanian

  17. Werehatrack said:
    (harvest dancer) may have said:

    Top-posting coward, when are you going to stop dodging my bet?

    I saw that in another message a few minutes ago.

    Quoted message said:

    WTF?

    I don't get it either.

    Quoted message said:

    Oh, I see.

    Care to draw a picture for me?

    Quoted message said:

    Plonk.

    I like to come up with new expansions of "plonk": Pop Ligament On New Ksyriums
    --
    Rick Onanian

  18. Rob Myhre said:

    Hate it, hate it, hate it. I listened to the NPR piece. That engine is anything but quite. It
    sounds like a weed-wacker. The manager of the bike

    Could be worse...it could sound like a ricer.
    riceboypage.comdouble decker civic.jpg
    riceboypage.comcivic hb.jpg and most importantly
    riceboypage.combigwheels
    --
    Rick Onanian

  19. I heard the NPR segment. It wasn't a terribly serious piece, given the setting was Bonneville Flats,
    with the motor powered bikes testing their mettle against hot rods and rocket cars.

    I have no problem with these gizmos whatsoever. Anything other than a SUV has to be an improvement.

    The web site for Golden Eagle engines is bikeengines.combikeengines.com. As other posters have noted,
    there are many of these types of things being sold, mostly it seems to the "gadget" crowd. Probably
    folks with more money than sense. But compared to comparable motoized bike schemes, this one seems a
    bit more practical. A couple weeks back, someone mentioned a electric hub for bike. The Golden Eagle
    seems better in that it has longer range and is much lighter weight. However, at >$500, it's way too
    expensive for anyone bet the afore mentioned "gadget" crowd with more money than sense.

    Mopeds have mostly disappeared (or perhaps evolved into motorized bicycles), but at least where I
    live, they have largely been replaced by motor scooters (the Vespa-types). Many of those are still 2
    stroke 50cc ditties. Interestingly, they aren't terribly loud. And Honda has one or two cute little
    50cc four stroke scooters out there.

    While the 25cc Golden Eagle is most likely a buzzy little bee, I'd much rather hear those zipping
    down the street than the brutally loud Harleys that currently pollute my ears and rattle the windows
    while they assuage the egos of their riders.

  20. Rick Onanian may have said:
    Werehatrack said:
    (harvest dancer) may have said:

    Top-posting coward, when are you going to stop dodging my bet?

    I saw that in another message a few minutes ago.

    Quoted message said:

    WTF?

    I don't get it either.

    Quoted message said:

    Oh, I see.

    Care to draw a picture for me?

    A little Googling produced a Flame. Not a very bright one, just a Flame.

    --
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
    don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy. Words processed in a facility that
    contains nuts.

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