Questions about recumbent trikes

"sfb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

#1 Are there names for the 1 wheel forward 2 back and 2 forward 1 back
configurations?

Delta and tadpole respectively, IIRC

Quoted message said:

#1 What are the advantages and disadvantages of the two configurations?

There are tradeoffs in the complexity of drive and steering. There probably
are other differences as well. I hope this thread doesn't get hijacked and
that more knowledgeable people contribute to it.

Roger Houston said:

"sfb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

#1 Are there names for the 1 wheel forward 2 back and 2 forward 1 back
configurations?

Delta and tadpole respectively, IIRC

Quoted message said:

#1 What are the advantages and disadvantages of the two configurations?

There are tradeoffs in the complexity of drive and steering. There probably
are other differences as well. I hope this thread doesn't get hijacked and
that more knowledgeable people contribute to it.

Speaking for US-oriented examples--
The tadpoles tend to be lighter overall and more performance-oriented.

The deltas tend to be heavier, but have two advantages: one is that they
are easier for people with limited-mobility to get on and off of. The
other is that two or more deltas can be strung-together in a sort-of
tandem if the wheel from one is removed, and then the fork of it is
hooked onto the back of the other (some delta trikes have a bracket
already for this use, but if not, making one is not hardly impossible).
~~~~~

"DougC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Speaking for US-oriented examples--
The tadpoles tend to be lighter overall and more performance-oriented.

The deltas tend to be heavier, but have two advantages: one is that they
are easier for people with limited-mobility to get on and off of. The
other is that two or more deltas can be strung-together in a sort-of
tandem if the wheel from one is removed, and then the fork of it is hooked
onto the back of the other (some delta trikes have a bracket already for
this use, but if not, making one is not hardly impossible).

There are exceptions. My Tricruiser, a Tadpole, was very easy to get on and
off because the seat was quite high off the ground. It was so high that when
I pulled up alongside of cars, I could look eye-level with the drivers.

The very first trike I owned was a Sun Delta. There were two things I really
didn't like about it. One was that it had power to only one side. The other
was that the widest part of the trike was behind you so it was more
difficult to judge what you would fit through. I think if the first problem
were taken care of, however, I could like with the second.

I understand that Hase has a recent model that supplies power to both wheels
instead of just one. I imagine that I'd do just fine with that.

Now I'm looking for a trike that can use both hand and foot power. The only
one I know of is a Tadpole.

DougC said:

Speaking for US-oriented examples--
The tadpoles tend to be lighter overall and more performance-oriented.

This is true, IMO. In my experience, tadpoles are much more stable when
cornering at speed. I have no problems taking certain sweeping turns
around here on my tadpole at 30 mph, but I'd have to change my shorts
(probably after I got out of the hospital) if I tried the same thing on
most deltas.

TL

--

Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist
the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

H.L. Mencken

Typhoon Longwang said:

DougC said:

Speaking for US-oriented examples--
The tadpoles tend to be lighter overall and more performance-oriented.

This is true, IMO. In my experience, tadpoles are much more stable when
cornering at speed. I have no problems taking certain sweeping turns
around here on my tadpole at 30 mph, but I'd have to change my shorts
(probably after I got out of the hospital) if I tried the same thing on
most deltas.

For odd cornering, see:
<http://www.jggrafx.com/thomsstuff/thebis1.jpg>.

On the RWD/RWS Thebis, you feel the rear end swing to the side before
much change in direction occurs. The high center of gravity makes it
fairly easy to flip in tight turn [1]. I have not ridden a Thebis
anywhere but a parking lot, but I would be VERY hesitant to go fast
downhill.

[1] Based on observations of someone else tipping a Thebis over while
cornering.

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Blue Earth Cycles Dragonflyer

Typhoon Longwang said:

DougC said:

Speaking for US-oriented examples--
The tadpoles tend to be lighter overall and more performance-oriented.

This is true, IMO. In my experience, tadpoles are much more stable when
cornering at speed. I have no problems taking certain sweeping turns
around here on my tadpole at 30 mph, but I'd have to change my shorts
(probably after I got out of the hospital) if I tried the same thing on
most deltas.

The reason for that is that the failure mode (i.e. when it's most likely
to tip over) of a delta is cornering downhill at speed, whereas the
failure mode of a tadpole is cornering *uphill* at speed, which, for
most of us is a fair bit less likely :-)

--
Carol
"I can't stress this enough. Edible ball bearings. Masterpiece."
- The Doctor

Jeff Grippe said:

Now I'm looking for a trike that can use both hand and foot power. The only
one I know of is a Tadpole.

Greenspeed used to make one, but don't any longer. I don't think they
sold very many, so the chances of getting a second -hand one are pretty
slim.

I guess the one you know of would be the Angletech Quadra-Ped ?

http://www.angletechcycles.com/bikes/trikes/index.htm

--
Carol
"I can't stress this enough. Edible ball bearings. Masterpiece."
- The Doctor

DougC said:

Roger Houston wrote:

Speaking for US-oriented examples--
The tadpoles tend to be lighter overall and more performance-oriented.

The deltas tend to be heavier,

The exception (but it may not be Big in the US) is the Hase Kettwiesel:
a fast, light delta, although it can be a little light at the front !!

You may also find that a delta trike has a smaller turning circle, which
is useful in town (the Kett can nearly turn around its' rear wheels).

--
Simon Kellett, Darmstadt, Germany | http://home.arcor.de/zoxed
Hase Kettwiesel trike | ex-Pashley PDQ SWB
Flux V220 CLWB | Zox20 Lowracer

"Simon Kellett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

The exception (but it may not be Big in the US) is the Hase Kettwiesel:
a fast, light delta, although it can be a little light at the front !!

{ ... not that there's anything wrong with that ... }

"sfb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

#1 Are there names for the 1 wheel forward 2 back and 2 forward 1 back
configurations?

#1 What are the advantages and disadvantages of the two configurations?

Thanks

I haven't ridden a Delta but I can make comment on a Tadpole (Catrike Road)
that I have been riding since May this year. One thing that came to a head
early on in my learning curve was the "brake steer" effect. The catrike has
front disk brakes on both wheels...LOTS of stopping power! But on steep
descents, at speeds of >40k one has to be aware of the brake steer in order
not to get into trouble. This is emphasized on curvy and narrow paths where
one doesn't have the room to make mistakes while steering under braking. As
I've ridden the bike more (1800km) the brake steer is less and less
pronounced. The Catrike does not have suspension of any type so riding over
broken surfaces or uneven expansion joints etc can be jarring. I put
Schawlbe "Big Apple" tires on my trike. At 2" they provide reasonable
suspension. Visibility, being so low, is much less than an upright bike. If
your around traffic, use a flag, bright clothing, lights, anything to make
sure that drivers can see you in lots of time. For me, one of the biggest
disadvantages of the trike is lack of portability. They won't fit on a
standard bike rack and are not easy to "walk". Narrow doorways can also
present problems. I am definitely slower on my trike (compred to upright)
but then a gain, I live in an area with nothing but hills. In general, I
love riding the Catrike, I haven't ridden my upright (a 1991 Bridgestone
MB-1, roadified) since. The biggest thing one could say about a trike or
recumbents in general....comfortable.

Cheers....Grolsch

Carol Hague said:

The reason for that is that the failure mode (i.e. when it's most likely
to tip over) of a delta is cornering downhill at speed, whereas the
failure mode of a tadpole is cornering *uphill* at speed, which, for
most of us is a fair bit less likely :-)

Hah! Maybe for you, but I can...uh...wait, um, could you define 'at
speed' please? If it means 'less than five miles per hour' then I'd
have to argue with your last point.

TL

--

Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist
the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

H.L. Mencken

Typhoon Longwang said:

Carol Hague said:

The reason for that is that the failure mode (i.e. when it's most likely
to tip over) of a delta is cornering downhill at speed, whereas the
failure mode of a tadpole is cornering *uphill* at speed, which, for
most of us is a fair bit less likely :-)

Hah! Maybe for you, but I can...uh...wait, um, could you define 'at
speed' please? If it means 'less than five miles per hour' then I'd
have to argue with your last point.

I've got a cold at the moment so please excuse me if I'm a bit stupider
than usual - are you saying you've tipped a tadpole trike going uphill
at less than five miles an hour?

I didn't have a precise figure in mind when I wrote "at speed" but I
certainly meant faster than that :-)

Of course circumstances make a lot of difference - uphill at speed is
the most *likely* point for a tadpole to tip, but that doesn't mean it's
otherwise impossible, and I apologise if I appeared to imply that it
did.

--
Carol
"I can't stress this enough. Edible ball bearings. Masterpiece."
- The Doctor

Tadpole trikes do have problems with off-camber curves...at speed though.

"Carol Hague" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Typhoon Longwang said:

Carol Hague said:

The reason for that is that the failure mode (i.e. when it's most
likely
to tip over) of a delta is cornering downhill at speed, whereas the
failure mode of a tadpole is cornering *uphill* at speed, which, for
most of us is a fair bit less likely :-)

Hah! Maybe for you, but I can...uh...wait, um, could you define 'at
speed' please? If it means 'less than five miles per hour' then I'd
have to argue with your last point.

I've got a cold at the moment so please excuse me if I'm a bit stupider
than usual - are you saying you've tipped a tadpole trike going uphill
at less than five miles an hour?

I didn't have a precise figure in mind when I wrote "at speed" but I
certainly meant faster than that :-)

Of course circumstances make a lot of difference - uphill at speed is
the most *likely* point for a tadpole to tip, but that doesn't mean it's
otherwise impossible, and I apologise if I appeared to imply that it
did.

--
Carol
"I can't stress this enough. Edible ball bearings. Masterpiece."
- The Doctor

Carol Hague said:

Typhoon Longwang said:

Carol Hague said:

The reason for that is that the failure mode (i.e. when it's most likely
to tip over) of a delta is cornering downhill at speed, whereas the
failure mode of a tadpole is cornering *uphill* at speed, which, for
most of us is a fair bit less likely :-)

Hah! Maybe for you, but I can...uh...wait, um, could you define 'at
speed' please? If it means 'less than five miles per hour' then I'd
have to argue with your last point.

I've got a cold at the moment so please excuse me if I'm a bit stupider
than usual - are you saying you've tipped a tadpole trike going uphill
at less than five miles an hour?

I didn't have a precise figure in mind when I wrote "at speed" but I
certainly meant faster than that :-)

Of course circumstances make a lot of difference - uphill at speed is
the most *likely* point for a tadpole to tip, but that doesn't mean it's
otherwise impossible, and I apologise if I appeared to imply that it
did.

Sorry - I should have added the smiley :-) ...

TL

--

Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist
the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

H.L. Mencken

Quoted message said:

Sorry - I should have added the smiley :-) ...

Well, like I said, I'm even dimmer than usual right now :-)

--
Carol
"I can't stress this enough. Edible ball bearings. Masterpiece."
- The Doctor

2 forward 1 back is called a 'tadpole'