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Questions about first marathon

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General fitness, health and nutrition
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4 June 2004
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Gen
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  1. I am running Wahington DC marathon on October 31st, 5 months
    from now. My first! When I started training a month ago my
    limit was about 3 miles (in 1/2 hour), now I can run about
    6.5 miles (in an hour).

    I am following a 6 month marathon training schedule which I
    downloaded from internet.

    I would be greatful if someone could answer the following
    questions:
    ----------
    #1# I have started carrying water for runs longer than 4
    #miles. This
    was easy to figure out as I felt thirsty. What's the
    distance (a very rough estimate of course) beyond which I
    should carry something to eat? The problem is that I dont
    feel hungry until after 2 hours or so of running. So going
    by my instincts may not be enough.
    ----------
    #2# How useful it is to wear a heart rate monitor
    #while running?
    ----------
    #3# I have recently gained about 3 pounds of weight,
    #maybe I am
    overeating. Is weight gain something to worry about? What's
    the best way to decide how much to eat?
    ----------
    I will appreciate any other advice/tips.

    Thanks,

    Gen

  2. Gen said:

    I am running Wahington DC marathon on October 31st, 5
    months from now. My first!

    cool.

    ...

    Quoted message said:

    #1# I have started carrying water for runs longer than 4
    #miles. This
    was easy to figure out as I felt thirsty. What's the
    distance (a very rough estimate of course) beyond which I
    should carry something to eat? The problem is that I dont
    feel hungry until after 2 hours or so of running. So going
    by my instincts may not be enough.

    the distance - you should figure out yourself in the next 5
    months while you are training. each person is different.

    on the course, you won't really need to carry water/fluids
    since there will be stations throughout.

    sometimes they even have bananas or orange slices. maybe
    you could find out more from someone who's run this
    marathon before.

    Quoted message said:

    #2# How useful it is to wear a heart rate monitor while
    #running?

    since this is your first marathon, i'd say it's not
    important. just take it easy and don't go out too fast.

    Quoted message said:

    #3# I have recently gained about 3 pounds of weight,
    #maybe I am
    overeating. Is weight gain something to worry about?
    What's the best way to decide how much to eat?

    i don't know what to say. maybe others will have
    suggestions.

    good luck with the marathon. jobs

  3. Hey Gen,

    I'm no expert, but I did my first marathon last year so
    maybe this will help.

    1) Don't worry about eating on your runs - it won't get
    converted into energy and it will give you cramp.
    Instead, carb load the morning of the run and preferably
    the day before too. If you eat pasta the evening before
    and then, say, bagels a few hours before the long run,
    you'll have all the energy you need. Also, and this is
    IMPORTANT!!!, find the foods that suit you best and make
    sure they are the ones that you eat before the big race.
    The last thing you want to do is eat something strange in
    Washington and ruin all your hard work.

    2) Personal choice. I'm not really concerned about it, I
    just like running, but there are infinitely better
    runners than me who swear by it.

    3) Forget about weight, once you start doing them long
    runs the pounds drop off. Cheekbones, ribs, hips,
    everything becomes visible. Just eat well so you're not
    lacking anything. Carbs before a run, protein
    afterwards and plenty of fruit and veg to keep your
    immune system strong.

    Just incase this helps, the best thing I did was download a
    schedule from nyrrc.org and stick to it. Like you, I went
    from zero to marathon in about six months, and while it's
    more than possible, you cannot afford to get injured or ill
    like an experienced runner can. The training does get tough
    and you do have to make sacrifices, but being super fit and
    crossing the finishing line is the best feeling in the world
    - and you stay thin and super fit for ages afterwards
    without doing any training at all :-)

    Cheers, Joe.

    "Gen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I am running Wahington DC marathon on October 31st, 5
    months from now. My first! When I started training a month
    ago my limit was about 3 miles (in 1/2 hour), now I can
    run about 6.5 miles (in an hour).

    I am following a 6 month marathon training schedule which
    I downloaded from internet.

    I would be greatful if someone could answer the following
    questions:
    ----------
    #1# I have started carrying water for runs longer than 4
    #miles. This
    was easy to figure out as I felt thirsty. What's the
    distance (a very rough estimate of course) beyond which I
    should carry something to eat? The problem is that I dont
    feel hungry until after 2 hours or so of running. So going
    by my instincts may not be enough.
    ----------
    #2# How useful it is to wear a heart rate monitor while
    #running?
    ----------
    #3# I have recently gained about 3 pounds of weight,
    #maybe I am
    overeating. Is weight gain something to worry about?
    What's the best way to decide how much to eat?
    ----------
    I will appreciate any other advice/tips.

    Thanks,

    Gen

  4. Gen said:

    I am running Wahington DC marathon on October 31st, 5
    months from now. My first! When I started training a month
    ago my limit was about 3 miles (in 1/2 hour), now I can
    run about 6.5 miles (in an hour).

    I am following a 6 month marathon training schedule which
    I downloaded from internet.

    I would be greatful if someone could answer the following
    questions:
    ----------
    #1# I have started carrying water for runs longer than 4
    #miles. This
    was easy to figure out as I felt thirsty. What's the
    distance (a very rough estimate of course) beyond which I
    should carry something to eat? The problem is that I dont
    feel hungry until after 2 hours or so of running. So going
    by my instincts may not be enough.

    Keep this in mind -- no experiments on marathon day. So if
    you're going to eat during the race (advisable for a race

    Quoted message said:

    2hrs duration IMO) then you should try it at least a couple


    of times during training. Same with drinking water. Also, if
    they just have those little drink cups in the marathon,
    getting the water from the cup into your gut is a
    surprisingly difficult task (unless you're willing to stop)

    I'd suggest entering at least two half-marathon races before
    your big race, and get familiar with eating/drinking in
    these races (even though it may not be necessary over this
    distance).

    Quoted message said:

    ----------
    #2# How useful it is to wear a heart rate monitor while
    #running?

    During training runs, it might help you keep an eye on your
    effort level -- you don't want to push too hard on training
    runs and heart rate monitors can keep this in check.
    Wouldn't recommend wearing one in a race.

    Quoted message said:

    ----------
    #3# I have recently gained about 3 pounds of weight,
    #maybe I am
    overeating. Is weight gain something to worry about?
    What's the best way to decide how much to eat?

    Eat when you're hungry. Don't worry about short term
    fluctuations. If you're on a decent marathon training
    program, you're not going to get fat by accident.

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflord

  5. In article <[email hidden]>, Gen

    Quoted message said:

    I am running Wahington DC marathon on October 31st, 5
    months from now. My first! When I started training a month
    ago my limit was about 3 miles (in 1/2 hour), now I can
    run about 6.5 miles (in an hour).

    I am following a 6 month marathon training schedule which
    I downloaded from internet.

    I would be greatful if someone could answer the following
    questions:
    ----------
    #1# I have started carrying water for runs longer than 4
    #miles. This
    was easy to figure out as I felt thirsty. What's the
    distance (a very rough estimate of course) beyond which I
    should carry something to eat? The problem is that I dont
    feel hungry until after 2 hours or so of running. So going
    by my instincts may not be enough.

    Until the early 90's/late 80's most marathon training runs
    up to the marathon distance were run without eating
    anything. The idea being that what i ate two days before the
    long run was the energy which I was using and also because
    the long running taps into one's fat metabolism.

    However I will never mess with anyone's folklore regarding
    their drinking, eating, and glycogen shots. Do what works
    for you. If it doesn't work then find something that does.

    Quoted message said:

    ----------
    #2# How useful it is to wear a heart rate monitor while
    #running?

    Again until they became popular and still, the majority of
    people monitor their heart rate by taking a pulse for 10 or
    15 seconds and then multiplying by 6 or 4 respectively.
    After awhile most people can tell you what their heart rate
    is by how they are breathing or how they feel. Again
    folklore. If it works for you use it. If not, don't.

    Might be interesting to use a heart rate to get a feeling of
    what the effort is when running or when getting tired in the
    3rd or 4th hour of running. Then you'll know how you feel
    and probably come in pretty close to what the monitor is
    saying. Borrow someone's, calibrate your body and your
    awareness to the monitor, and you're set. Give the money you
    save to your favorite charity, or buy a nice gift or dinner
    or time out with your significant other who has to deal with
    the many hours on the road especially if they have a
    different interest.

    Quoted message said:

    ----------
    #3# I have recently gained about 3 pounds of weight,
    #maybe I am
    overeating. Is weight gain something to worry about?
    What's the best way to decide how much to eat?

    Remember it takes 3 grams of water to store one gram of
    glycogen in muscle tissue and also in the liver. Carboloaded
    also means water loaded. However, one can be carboloaded and
    now well hydrated. It's a balance. The water weight for many
    of us can vary 4 to 8 pounds.

    Many people run to eat. Once they lower their mileage, the
    weight begins to increase. An article in the paper today
    talks about a factor of time behind the wheel driving is
    correlated to weight increase and obesity. Runners learn
    that they don't need to overeat, also realizing that they
    have to carry the extra weight around unnecessarily.

    In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer -
    rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est.
    1975

    Mindful Running: mindfulness.commr.asp faqs.orgrunning
    faq/

    Quoted message said:

    ----------
    I will appreciate any other advice/tips.

    Thanks,

    Gen

  6. Gen wrote:

    (caveat: my long runs are only close to 2 hr and don't even
    have a marathon planned, but I do read and experiment a lot
    and have longer distance goals, 26.2 mi just isn't one of
    them. IOW, take this with grain of salt.)

    Quoted message said:

    I am running Wahington DC marathon on October 31st, 5
    months from now.

    Isn't this actually the Marine Corps Marathon, which tends
    to be well organized and supported - vs the Washington, DC
    marathon which tends to be scheduled in the spring and
    cancelled (and I think the year it was held there were
    problems).

    This is an important distinction for your training. Look at
    MCM's web page for aid station distribution and what will be
    supplied as well as course topography (there's a couple
    "hills", which may be mountains to flatlanders and not
    noticed by people who train on hills, as I understand it).

    If you intend to depend on their fluids, be sure to find out
    what is being served and what flavor. Train with that, but
    you might want to back off it in the month (guesstimate)
    before so you're not sick of it on race day. I've also
    noticed in some race reports, that fluids may be different
    flavor than advertised or mixed at incorrect strength, etc.,
    so having a little bit of flexibility would be good also. If
    you can't handle their drink, you could take powder of your
    own and mix in your water bottle. I don't know what type of
    time you're looking at, but many advocate just aiming to
    finish 1st marathon, although it's generally a good idea to
    have a general idea of duration to judge training and fluids
    / electrolytes / energy needs.

    In your training, you can figure out whether you need
    fluids more frequently than the aid stations or if you
    have problems drinking from those cups. Some prefer to sip
    from a water bottle or camelbak every 15 min, for example,
    than to gulp at aid stations. Your choice. Just be sure to
    train that way.

    Be sure to keep your electrolytes (primarily sodium)
    balanced with fluid to avoid hyponatremia. Most sports
    drinks do not have enough sodium for people who are going to
    be out awhile (say 4 hrs, but may depend on the level of
    your training, heat adaptation, sweating, electrolyte
    content of sweat). (If not familiar with this, google the
    group for many discussions. Dissertations have been written
    on this in some running groups.)

    Quoted message said:

    My first!

    Enjoy!

    Quoted message said:

    ----------
    #1# I have started carrying water for runs longer than 4
    #miles. This
    was easy to figure out as I felt thirsty. What's the
    distance (a very rough estimate of course) beyond which I
    should carry something to eat? The problem is that I dont
    feel hungry until after 2 hours or so of running. So going
    by my instincts may not be enough.

    You might find a lot of day-to-day variation with this, esp.
    in conjunction with temperatures (I'm always hungry in
    winter, seldom hungry while running in hot summer). This is
    something you will learn during training - whether you can
    run 26.2 miles on whatever you've eaten in the last few
    days, or for breakfast, or what you need to take in during
    the run. This is a major thing to learn on your long runs.

    Your long runs are not just to log time/miles: they are to
    learn hydration and fuelling techniques as well - frequency,
    type, etc. Know what's in the sports drink you use - carbs
    (complex vs simple) and amount of electrolytes. For carbs,
    some people use gels (I can't stand them), others use energy
    bars or food that doesn't come from chem lab (oranges,
    bananas, M&M's, wheat thins, etc) but these may be more
    difficult to digest.

    Quoted message said:

    ----------
    #2# How useful it is to wear a heart rate monitor while
    #running?

    I always wear mine - both training and racing, primarily
    because it's the only watch I own with numbers large enough
    to read while running 😉 I pretty much ignore it during the
    race, though (as I do in training also). Mine tends to read
    about 20 bpm higher on race day than training day. But
    during training, I've used the hrm to recognize body signs,
    esp. breathing, associated with various efforts, so I'm not
    dependent on it. (admittedly, changes in temperature in
    spring mess me up for awhile) So yes, I wear it, but I don't
    really use it other than to have a hr trace of race (downloadable)-
    same as I do in training.

    Basic rule: do nothing new on race day (other than running
    the distance at race effort 😉. Train as you expect to race,
    if possible - time of day, clothes, shoes, fluids, energy,
    rain, sun, temperatures, etc.

    Good luck!

    Dot

    --
    "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
    Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

  7. Thanks to you all! Your advice will be very helpful to me.
    Yes I am running Marine Corps Marathon in DC. Sorry I mixed
    it up with Washington DC marathon. In fact I got the
    schedule from www.nyrrc.org. Now I will follow this schedule
    with more confidence and faith. 🙂 My goals: Completing the
    marathon is my primary goal so my time-target is humble,
    less than 5 hours.

    Thanks again, Gen

  8. Gen said:

    I am running Wahington DC marathon on October 31st, 5
    months from now. My first!


    Good luck!

    Quoted message said:

    ---------
    #1# I have started carrying water for runs longer than 4
    #miles. This
    was easy to figure out as I felt thirsty. What's the
    distance (a very rough estimate of course) beyond which I
    should carry something to eat? The problem is that I dont
    feel hungry until after 2 hours or so of running. So going
    by my instincts may not be enough.


    When I started running longer runs I experimented with
    bananas, but pretty soon I graduated to sports drinks - if
    you drink them at the right mix, they provide enough
    carbos/salt and fluids for long runs and the marathon
    itself. I usually take sports drink on my long runs -
    1.5 hours and up.

    Quoted message said:

    ---------
    #2# How useful it is to wear a heart rate monitor while
    #running?


    I started wearing one last year after running 4 years
    without one. The main benefit it gave me was forcing me to
    slow down at times so that I wouldn't push myself too fast
    on the days I was running easy/ recovery runs. It also can
    give you a good idea on how much influence terrain
    (uphills/downhills) and weather have on your body! That can
    be a good pointer to how you should run once race day comes
    along and it is hotter than you had planned for...

    Quoted message said:

    ----------
    #3# I have recently gained about 3 pounds of weight,
    #maybe I am
    overeating. Is weight gain something to worry about? What's
    the best way to decide how much to eat?


    At this stage don't worry about a few pounds. Eat sensibly
    and healthily. As someone else said, once you start building
    mileage the pounds will come off.

    Quoted message said:

    ----------
    I will appreciate any other advice/tips.


    Don't be tempted to up the mileage too quickly. If anything
    be more conservative than the oft-quoted 10% rule. I stick
    to Doug F's recommended 5%.

    Anthony.

  9. (Gen) said:

    I am running Wahington DC marathon on October 31st, 5
    months from now. My first! When I started training a month
    ago my limit was about 3 miles (in 1/2 hour), now I can run
    about 6.5 miles (in an hour).

    I am following a 6 month marathon training schedule which I
    downloaded from internet.

    I would be greatful if someone could answer the following
    questions:
    ----------
    #1# I have started carrying water for runs longer than 4
    #miles. This
    was easy to figure out as I felt thirsty. What's the
    distance (a very rough estimate of course) beyond which I
    should carry something to eat?

    Define "eat." <g> Seriously, even for a 5 hour marathon, you
    shouldn't be concerned with eating any solid foods (although
    pretzels/pringles are tasty.)

    You SHOULD be concerned about replacing fluids and
    electrolytes, so you should experiment with that in
    training, trying replacement drinks, electrolyte tablets,
    energy gels, etc.

    Find what works for you, what your stomach likes, and
    develop a way of meeting those needs on race day. Depend
    on the course organizers ONLY for water. That way, you
    won't need to try anything on race day you haven't tried
    in training.

    Mike Tennent "IronPenguin"

  10. In article <i7Kuc.1130$uQ3.1058@newsfe4-gui>, Joe <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Hey Gen,

    I'm no expert, but I did my first marathon last year so
    maybe this will help.

    1) Don't worry about eating on your runs - it won't get
    converted into energy and it will give you cramp.
    Instead, carb load the morning of the run and
    preferably the day before too. If you eat pasta the
    evening before and then, say, bagels a few hours before
    the long run, you'll have all the energy you need.
    Also, and this is IMPORTANT!!!, find the foods that
    suit you best and make sure they are the ones that you
    eat before the big race. The last thing you want to do
    is eat something strange in Washington and ruin all
    your hard work.

    Gen,

    Again I'm in agreement with Joe about not worrying regarding
    eating on the run.

    For me, I never eat the morning of my training runs or
    marathons if they are early morning starts. At Boston and
    NYC I ate a banana, toast or bagle when I got up to tide me
    over to the late starts.

    One can't really carboload the morning of the run. As I said
    in the previous post, what you've eaten the two days before
    and with minimal running will naturally create the
    carboloading.

    The night before my long runs or marathons, I eat earlier so
    that I have a good bowel movement before the run. I gave up
    on pastas long ago especially if eating late. White breads,
    pastas, potatoes are pretty close to sugar when it comes to
    glycemic index.

    The night before a long run or marathon, I would suggest
    veggies, good salad, whole wheat rolls or bread, some
    chicken, beef, or fish. I want a good bulk meal so that it
    passes through the alimentary canal quickly and is easy to
    get rid of before my run.

    Joe's right on a bout the IMPORTANT. Use the foods that
    work for you. It may take a few marathons to get it all
    right. It's about about marathoning being an endurance
    activity and also a great metaphor for life and enduring
    and finishing with an attitude of gratitude for all the
    help one has received along the way while at the same time
    honoring oneself without whom not one step would have been
    take. While honoring all that it takes to support one's
    running, when the marathoner is finished honoring coach
    and the entire support staff, they say to themselves: I
    did it myself.

    In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer -
    rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est.
    1975

    Mindful Running: mindfulness.commr.asp faqs.orgrunning
    faq/

  11. "Dot" <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    the Washington, DC marathon which tends to be


    scheduled in the spring and cancelled (and I think the year
    it was held there were problems).

    Quoted message said:

    Yeah, there were problems, all right -- the organizers
    decided there might be "security problems" and without even
    consulting the police or other security-minded orgs,
    cancelled. The "unofficial" marathon was organized by local
    enthusiasts, including some sponsors, on short notice & run
    (successfully) on the planned date. see
    picnet.netrunforamerica and runners-runners-
    guide.co.za/Columns/MarkBloomfield/04.IraqWar.asp for some
    of the info on it. bj

  12. Mike Tennent wrote in message
    <[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    (Gen) said:

    I am running Wahington DC marathon on October 31st, 5
    months from now. My first! When I started training a month
    ago my limit was about 3 miles (in 1/2 hour), now I can
    run about 6.5 miles (in an hour).

    I am following a 6 month marathon training schedule which
    I downloaded from internet.

    I would be greatful if someone could answer the following
    questions:
    ----------
    #1# I have started carrying water for runs longer than 4
    #miles. This
    was easy to figure out as I felt thirsty. What's the
    distance (a very rough estimate of course) beyond which I
    should carry something to eat?

    Define "eat." <g> Seriously, even for a 5 hour marathon,
    you shouldn't be concerned with eating any solid foods
    (although pretzels/pringles are tasty.)

    I totally disagree. Eating during runs over 2 hours will
    help you maintain your pace and will also help you
    recover faster. Caloric requirements for me running at
    marathon pace is about 800 calories / hour, a larger % of
    which is glycogen. From experience, the glycogen is all
    gone after about
    2.5 hours. Sports drink can help make up for some of what is
    needed after that, but not the 2000 cals needed! I like to
    take several GU's and sports bars when going longer than 3
    hours. When racing you'll use some fat for fuel but not as
    much as when going slower. My advice is learn to drink and
    eat a little when doing your long runs - learn to fuel
    your body as you go. Your body will thank you in the days
    after the marathon...

    Quoted message said:

    You SHOULD be concerned about replacing fluids and
    electrolytes, so you should experiment with that in
    training, trying replacement drinks, electrolyte tablets,
    energy gels, etc.

    Find what works for you, what your stomach likes, and
    develop a way of meeting those needs on race day. Depend on
    the course organizers ONLY for water. That way, you won't
    need to try anything on race day you haven't tried in
    training.

    Mike Tennent "IronPenguin"

  13. Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Donovan Rebbechi said:

    On 2004-05-31, Gen <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    #2# How useful it is to wear a heart rate monitor while
    #running?

    Quoted message said:

    During training runs, it might help you keep an eye on
    your effort level -- you don't want to push too hard on
    training runs and heart rate monitors can keep this in
    check. Wouldn't recommend wearing one in a race.

    Why not, what harm can it do?

    Wearing a heart rate monitor is a great way to run slowly --
    so if you pay too much attention to it in a race, you'll
    probably run slowly. At best it's useful for ``post-race
    analysis'', though such analysis is probably more useful for
    satisfying ones curiosity than it is for producing good race
    performances.

    Quoted message said:

    I wear my heart monitor for everything. Even if you don't
    look at it, or only use it to record splits, it's
    invaluable for post-race analysis, surely?

    I don't think it's invaluable.

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflord

  14. bj said:

    "Dot" <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in message news:2PKuc.15337$_k3.361480@bgtnsc05-
    news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

    Quoted message said:

    the Washington, DC marathon which tends to be

    scheduled in the spring and cancelled (and I think the
    year it was held there were problems).

    Yeah, there were problems, all right -- >


    Actually, I think the 2002 inaugural one did occur
    officially with some good reviews as well as a few poor
    ones. 2003 was the year of the unoffical one, and I see the
    2004 was also cancelled, but don't know how much in advance.
    (just happened to see that while I was checking that I had
    the right race)

    Dot

    --
    "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
    Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

  15. Tony' qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com said:


    Mike Tennent wrote in message
    <[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    (Gen) said:

    I am running Wahington DC marathon on October 31st, 5
    months from now. My first! When I started training a
    month ago my limit was about 3 miles (in 1/2 hour), now I
    can run about 6.5 miles (in an hour).

    I am following a 6 month marathon training schedule which
    I downloaded from internet.

    I would be greatful if someone could answer the following
    questions:
    ----------
    #1# I have started carrying water for runs longer than 4
    #miles. This
    was easy to figure out as I felt thirsty. What's the
    distance (a very rough estimate of course) beyond which I
    should carry something to eat?

    Define "eat." <g> Seriously, even for a 5 hour marathon,
    you shouldn't be concerned with eating any solid foods
    (although pretzels/pringles are tasty.)

    I totally disagree. Eating during runs over 2 hours will
    help you maintain your pace and will also help you
    recover faster.

    Perhaps I should have made it clear that I don't consider
    gels to be "solid" foods.

    I use gels, but not power bars. I've never found one that is
    edible on the run.

    Mike Tennent "IronPenguin"

  16. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Dot dot.h@#att.net said:
    bj said:

    "Dot" <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in message news:2PKuc.15337$_k3.361480@bgtnsc05-
    news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

    Quoted message said:

    the Washington, DC marathon which tends to be

    scheduled in the spring and cancelled (and I think the
    year it was held there were problems).

    Yeah, there were problems, all right -- >


    Actually, I think the 2002 inaugural one did occur
    officially with some good reviews as well as a few poor
    ones. 2003 was the year of the unoffical one, and I see the
    2004 was also cancelled, but don't know how much in
    advance. (just happened to see that while I was checking
    that I had the right race)

    2004 wasn't cancelled, so much as the organizer (''😉 of
    the 2002 and 2003 was being sued by the city (among,
    perhaps others) and invited to drop dead if he thought the
    city would ever let him be in charge of anything in the
    city again.

    I paraphrase slightly. DC government and the local running
    community were seriously [censored]. The most likely
    interpretation is that the organizer cancelled the race
    because he was looking at another financial loss. He kept
    all entry fees and did not distribute the t-shirts (it
    appeared that on the day, 2 days before the race, that he
    cancelled, he didn't have the t-shirts in hand either),
    etc., nor run the race. It also developed that he had a
    prior conviction for financial fraud.

    There have been some attempts in the running community
    to assemble a DC marathon, again for the spring, but
    it's an uphill battle, not least because the city
    government is understandably leery of getting involved
    in another fiasco.

    2003 was pretty bad, by the way, in the views of most
    runners and practically all people who lived in the
    race's neighborhoods. Closing down large numbers of
    streets in front of churches on Easter Sunday is not the
    way to win friends.

    --
    Robert Grumbine radix.net~bobg Science faqs and
    amateur activities notes and links. Sagredo (Galileo
    Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
    evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less
    appreciated than they would be had they been presented in a
    more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

  17. Donovan Rebbechi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Wearing a heart rate monitor is a great way to run slowly
    -- so if you pay too much attention to it in a race,
    you'll probably run slowly.

    If it´s vital to run slowly - that is, slower than one would
    (because of one´s inexperience, for instance) or as slowly
    as one should (because of heat, hills) - for at least a
    certain part of the race, wearing a HRM is a great way to
    run a best possible time.

    In such a case it´s IMHO of minor consequence that one´s
    racing HR tends to be a bit higher (because of race nerves
    or "adrenaline rush"😉 than it would be in training (at a
    similar rate of effort in similar conditions).

    OTOH when one knows that one can cover the distance at a
    certain HR but is, for some reason, unsure of one´s form or
    is unsure of the right pace (because of the terrain or the
    conditions) the HRM is a great tool for running faster than
    one perhaps would.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I wear my heart monitor for everything. Even if you
    don't look at it, or only use it to record splits, it's
    invaluable for post-race analysis, surely?

    Quoted message said:

    I don't think it's invaluable.

    No, but it often provides an idíot´s guide to what a
    better educated or more experienced runner would learn
    without it:-)

    Anders

  18. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Dot dot.h@#att.net said:
    Robert Grumbine said:

    In article <1pRuc.16559$_k3.398215@bgtnsc05-
    news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, Dot <dot.h@#att.net> wrote:


    [snip]

    Quoted message said:

    And this is wby I wanted to be sure that this wasn't the
    race that the OP was going to try to run. I'd take my
    camelbak for fluids with that type "organization" (loosely
    used) whereas with the MCM, he could probably depend on
    decent aid stations.

    There are definitely a sufficiency of water stops and
    medical tents at the MCM. (at least I found it so, and
    I did use a couple of the latter as well). I'll note
    that for race planning purposes, _plan_ to walk through
    the water stops unless you're well to the front of the
    pack. (I do so anyhow, but I did see that I didn't have
    a choice.)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    There have been some attempts in the running community
    to assemble a DC marathon, again for the spring, but
    it's an uphill battle, not least because the city
    government is understandably leery of getting involved
    in another fiasco.


    Good luck.

    To them all. (I'm not involved, just know someone.)

    --
    Robert Grumbine radix.net~bobg Science faqs and
    amateur activities notes and links. Sagredo (Galileo
    Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
    evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less
    appreciated than they would be had they been presented in a
    more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

  19. Quoted message said:

    According to
    teamoregon.comwizard.php , if I
    put in a race performance and min and max HR, I get the
    most pessimistic time prediction for a race but have yet
    to reach the predicted heart rate average for that
    predicted race. That motivates me to run fast not slow as
    you state.

    If you used the heart rate monitor to pace yourself, it
    would motivate you to go out too hard -- an even better
    reason not to pay attention to heart rate monitors
    during races.

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflord

  20. Robert Grumbine said:

    In article <1pRuc.16559$_k3.398215@bgtnsc05-

    news.ops.worldnet.att.net said:

    Actually, I think the 2002 inaugural one did occur
    officially with some good reviews as well as a few poor
    ones. 2003 was the year of the unoffical one, and I see
    the 2004 was also cancelled, but don't know how much in
    advance. (just happened to see that while I was checking
    that I had the right race)

    2004 wasn't cancelled, so much as the organizer (''😉 of
    the 2002 and 2003 was being sued by the city (among,
    perhaps others) and invited to drop dead if he thought
    the city would ever let him be in charge of anything in
    the city again.

    I was just quoting the web page (marathonguide.com or
    wherever I was checking to be sure I didn't have the races
    mixed up 😉 Yea, I remember the 2003 ruckus when it was
    cancelled, and now that you mention it, I remember the
    street closure issue. Given that history, I was surprised to
    even see it scheduled in 2004 - at least it was on a web
    page that had "cancelled" at top. I was also surprised to
    see the number of decent reviews of the 2002 event, although
    there were several bad reviews.

    And this is wby I wanted to be sure that this wasn't the
    race that the OP was going to try to run. I'd take my
    camelbak for fluids with that type "organization" (loosely
    used) whereas with the MCM, he could probably depend on
    decent aid stations.

    Quoted message said:

    There have been some attempts in the running community
    to assemble a DC marathon, again for the spring, but
    it's an uphill battle, not least because the city
    government is understandably leery of getting involved
    in another fiasco.


    Good luck.

    Dot

    --
    "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
    Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

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