Questionable Trader Alert

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

....

Quoted message said:

So here is a guy who sets a price, gets his price quickly and without
reservation. He then decides to try and squeeze the buyer for more money.
Someone capable of this kind of behavior would seem capable of anything. So beware.

A little slimy, yes, but hardly unusual, especially for relatively big-
ticket items, and personally I wouldn't consider it to be dishonest.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

David White said:

You may want to beware of Curt Gustafson ([email hidden]) of Truckee, CA as
he is not the most square dealer you might wish to encounter. I am not saying
he is dishonest but he sure is slimy.

The other evening, he posted a complete bike for sale on Road Bike Review. I
was lucky enough to see it just after posting. It was a bike I have been
seeking at a price I was willing to pay. I immediately offered to buy the bike.
I accepted his description as honest and complete (there were no photos). My
only question was "Please let me know how to contact you via phone and we can
work out payment and shipping to Seattle". I also gave Curt my phone number as
a symbol of my sincerity.

After waiting all day for a return email or a call, I finally get an email.
Here is what Curt says, "Wow, that's a quick decision...I have gotten several
offers to buy the bike already... I don't want to sound overly mercenary, or
turn this into an eBay auction, but with this much activity the first day, I
think I might want to give the ad a week before I make a decision."

So here is a guy who sets a price, gets his price quickly and without
reservation. He then decides to try and squeeze the buyer for more money.
Someone capable of this kind of behavior would seem capable of anything. So beware.

[censored] come in all flavors.

As I clearly stated in my original post, "I am not saying he is dishonest". I
think (and said) it was slimey behavior and suggests questionable ethics.

David Kerber said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

...

Quoted message said:

So here is a guy who sets a price, gets his price quickly and without
reservation. He then decides to try and squeeze the buyer for more money.
Someone capable of this kind of behavior would seem capable of anything. So beware.

A little slimy, yes, but hardly unusual, especially for relatively big-
ticket items, and personally I wouldn't consider it to be dishonest.

I don't think that it is fair to call this guy Slimy. He's trying to
get his max price, and might have set his price a little low. I
wouldn't want to deal with buying the item from him, but I think you're
being a little bit unfair here. You thought you were going to get a
hell of a bargain, and now you're throwing this guy under the bus
because he is trying to get a little more? He's under no obligation to
sell it, you didn't incur any costs but a few mins to send an email. I
can understand your disappointment, but you really should take a deep
breath before calling the guy slimy.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I don't think that it is fair to call this guy Slimy. He's trying to
get his max price, and might have set his price a little low. I
wouldn't want to deal with buying the item from him, but I think you're
being a little bit unfair here. You thought you were going to get a
hell of a bargain, and now you're throwing this guy under the bus
because he is trying to get a little more? He's under no obligation to
sell it, you didn't incur any costs but a few mins to send an email. I
can understand your disappointment, but you really should take a deep
breath before calling the guy slimy.

I understand your point, and you see this happening all the time in Real
Estate, but if a regular store tried it, they'd be in trouble with the
regulators for false advertising or bait-and-switch tactics, depending
on exactly how it happened. I feel that if somebody offers something
for sale at a certain price, and somebody offers that price, I think
they should be honor-bound to sell at that price, even if they realize
later on that they should have originally asked for more.

Playing buyers off against each other is ok if you post it from the
beginning as an auction, but not if you post it as a straight "for
sale".

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

David Kerber said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I don't think that it is fair to call this guy Slimy. He's trying to
get his max price, and might have set his price a little low. I
wouldn't want to deal with buying the item from him, but I think you're
being a little bit unfair here. You thought you were going to get a
hell of a bargain, and now you're throwing this guy under the bus
because he is trying to get a little more? He's under no obligation to
sell it, you didn't incur any costs but a few mins to send an email. I
can understand your disappointment, but you really should take a deep
breath before calling the guy slimy.

I understand your point, and you see this happening all the time in Real
Estate, but if a regular store tried it, they'd be in trouble with the
regulators for false advertising or bait-and-switch tactics, depending
on exactly how it happened. I feel that if somebody offers something
for sale at a certain price, and somebody offers that price, I think
they should be honor-bound to sell at that price, even if they realize
later on that they should have originally asked for more.

Playing buyers off against each other is ok if you post it from the
beginning as an auction, but not if you post it as a straight "for
sale".

He set a price and published it. That should constitute a contract once
accepted by a buyer. The out is if there were any words about higher
"bids." Perhaps a legal opinion may be forthcoming and you have grounds
to sue him for the bike.

jim

sounds like Gary Bettman and the NHL...they got their 24% rollback...then
the cap...then salary arbitration...rookie cap....then walks away and
cancels....go back to Basketball Bettman
"David White" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You may want to beware of Curt Gustafson ([email hidden]) of Truckee,
CA as he is not the most square dealer you might wish to encounter. I am
not saying he is dishonest but he sure is slimy.

The other evening, he posted a complete bike for sale on Road Bike Review.
I was lucky enough to see it just after posting. It was a bike I have been
seeking at a price I was willing to pay. I immediately offered to buy the
bike. I accepted his description as honest and complete (there were no
photos). My only question was "Please let me know how to contact you via
phone and we can work out payment and shipping to Seattle". I also gave
Curt my phone number as a symbol of my sincerity.

After waiting all day for a return email or a call, I finally get an
email. Here is what Curt says, "Wow, that's a quick decision...I have
gotten several offers to buy the bike already... I don't want to sound
overly mercenary, or turn this into an eBay auction, but with this much
activity the first day, I think I might want to give the ad a week before
I make a decision."

So here is a guy who sets a price, gets his price quickly and without
reservation. He then decides to try and squeeze the buyer for more money.
Someone capable of this kind of behavior would seem capable of anything.
So beware.

LOL!

Yeah! That's what he should do!

Quoted message said:

He set a price and published it. That should constitute a contract once
accepted by a buyer. The out is if there were any words about higher
"bids." Perhaps a legal opinion may be forthcoming and you have grounds
to sue him for the bike.

jim

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I understand your point, and you see this happening all the time in

Real

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Estate, but if a regular store tried it, they'd be in trouble with

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

regulators for false advertising or bait-and-switch tactics,

depending

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on exactly how it happened. I feel that if somebody offers

something

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for sale at a certain price, and somebody offers that price, I

think

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

they should be honor-bound to sell at that price, even if they

realize

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

later on that they should have originally asked for more.

Playing buyers off against each other is ok if you post it from the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

beginning as an auction, but not if you post it as a straight "for
sale".

He set a price and published it. That should constitute a contract

once

Quoted message said:

accepted by a buyer. The out is if there were any words about higher
"bids." Perhaps a legal opinion may be forthcoming and you have

grounds

Quoted message said:

to sue him for the bike.

jim

It is not a contract. A contract requires an offer, acceptance, and
consideration. There is no consideration here, just an offer and
acceptance (maybe). Or, the other way to look at it is that the
potential buyer offered to buy the item, and the seller has not yet
accepted the offer to buy. A classified ad is not a legal "offer" for
the purposes of creating a binding contract.

Nevertheless, this isn't about whether he is legally obligated to sell
the item. [censored], there are plenty of operations of law that aren't
"right."

First off... did the ad say "$X or best offer?" Then the guy has a
right to seek the best offer. Even if it doesnt, shouldnt you always
(as a seller) have a right to change your mind about selling the item
at all? Or, if you advertise it for $1000, you can't then take $999
nor can you take $1001?

Second... what if someone has a brand new Independent Fab Crown Jewel
Ti that they got as a gift. They think that it might be worth $500 or
so. Should you take it from them for $500 because they were unaware of
its true value? Well, sure, tough [censored] for the seller if they didnt do
their homework. But, upon their discovery that they undervalued the
item, they should be able to re-up the price.

If you want to talk about "honor bound," I would say that goes both
ways. A fair price is a fair price. If someone thought that they were
going to get a "once in a lifetime" price, and they didn't, then I
don't think they've been mistreated.

In article <[email hidden]>,

....

Quoted message said:

You lose... the ad says $1275/OBO. "OBO" means "or best offer." Was

Does it actually say OBO? If so, then the seller is certainly within
his rights to wait to see if a better offer comes in. Of course, most
people put in "OBO" because they might have to take *less* than the
requested price, but it would of course allow waiting a bit (within
reason, of course) for higher offers.

.....

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Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

[quote="d33"]sounds like Gary Bettman and the NHL...they got their 24% rollback...then
the cap...then salary arbitration...rookie cap....then walks away and
cancels....go back to Basketball Bettman


Sounds like an upset hockey fan...I for one am glad. I enjoy watching a good game and play shinny (that’s pickup hockey on open ice) occasionally, but in this case I have no pity for players. Not only because they are (multi) millionaires, but because if they had morals, they wouldn’t have gone over to Europe to take other people’s livelihoods. Why do that? To keep fit/to keep playing? They could have organized something here. I wonder how they will react if they ever have scab players.

I don’t see anything wrong with owners making more money than employees. In fact, many teams had the opposite where some players were making more than the owners (who were losing money). Finally, if anyone’s unhappy with NHL either owners or players, then let the wallets speak.

Sorry about the digression. I’ll get back to bikes now.

Josh

This has engendered an interesting discussion about the ethics of
selling used stuff. It's too bad some people have to be so "right"
that they resort to foul language wen others disagree with them (if
you search around Google withmy name in the newsgroups, you'll find
this is a nice, hypocritical case of "pot-kettle-black"😉.

What it boils down to is: if I advertise an item for sale with a
price, am I obligated to sell it at that price even if I lowballed
myself?

I don't have a hard and fast answer for this. If I went to a garage
sale and found someone selling a mint condition Gibson Byrdland for
$50, I would take it to the seller and say "this is seriously
underpriced by a couple thousand dollars, you might want to
reconsider." Ethically I couldn't take advantage of a person for that
kind of money, even though I'd *really* want the Byrdland. and
couldn't afford to pay what it's worth. OTOH if I went to the garage
sale and the same item was there for, say, $200 less than the average
eBay price I'd have fewer qualms and would probably consider it a good
deal.

If I was the seller, I'd do some research to get an idea of hte "going
rate" for my item and probably price it slightly below that unless it
was in mint or near-mint condition. And I'd stick to that price.

FWIW I posted a mint Zeus tubular tire carrier on the newsgroup for $2
or something like that, about 5 years ago. The guy who bought it sent
me $5 "because that's what I'd have paid on eBay and considered it a
good deal." It takes all kinds.

I don't think what the guy did was unethical but its also not uncommon
for these sorts of hardball tactics to backfire. Lots of email
inquiries does not necessarily mean lots of motivated buyers WITH
MONEY. By trying to play buyers off of each other, you run a big risk
of alienating the serious ones and stand a good chance of winding up
with a high offer from some goofball who can't come up with the dough
when its time to pay.

My advice? Tell the guy your offer stands, and that when he gets tired
of dealing with flakes, he should contact you.

It may not be uncommon, it may be within the seller's rights, but that really
does not make it the right thing to do or present the seller as a
straight-shooter (which is what I was reporting). My point here is that, after
this kind of behavior, I would not buy from this person as I do not believe
that I can trust his future actions.

For those who believe this that I have defamed the seller, this is something
the seller has done to himself by virtue of his own behavior. I merely report
facts and offer my opinion. Readers are, of course, able to draw their own...

Quoted message said:

I don't think what the guy did was unethical but its also not uncommon
for these sorts of hardball tactics to backfire. Lots of email
inquiries does not necessarily mean lots of motivated buyers WITH
MONEY. By trying to play buyers off of each other, you run a big risk
of alienating the serious ones and stand a good chance of winding up
with a high offer from some goofball who can't come up with the dough
when its time to pay.

My advice? Tell the guy your offer stands, and that when he gets tired
of dealing with flakes, he should contact you.

David White said:

It may not be uncommon, it may be within the seller's rights, but

that really

Quoted message said:

does not make it the right thing to do or present the seller as a
straight-shooter (which is what I was reporting). My point here is

that, after

Quoted message said:

this kind of behavior, I would not buy from this person as I do not

believe

Quoted message said:

that I can trust his future actions.

For those who believe this that I have defamed the seller, this is

something

Quoted message said:

the seller has done to himself by virtue of his own behavior. I

merely report

Quoted message said:

facts and offer my opinion. Readers are, of course, able to draw

their own...

This was an awfully shrill hissy fit for you to throw if your only
point is that this guy is "not a straight-shooter." I think your
whining says more negative things about you than about him. You can't
trust him? He was pretty up-front with you, if I look at how you told
the story. I'd say that YOU are the one that can't be trusted. I
certainly wouldnt want to deal with you. If I [censored] and cried on RBM
every time a deal fell through... well, I just wouldnt, because it
would be beneath me.

Why dont you go write "Gustafson sucks" on a bathroom wall? It would
be just as cathartic and less defamatory.

Velo Psycho said:

David White said:

It may not be uncommon, it may be within the seller's rights, but
that really does not make it the right thing to do or present the
seller as a straight-shooter (which is what I was reporting). My
point here is that, after this kind of behavior, I would not buy
from this person as I do not believe that I can trust his future
actions.

For those who believe this that I have defamed the seller, this is
something the seller has done to himself by virtue of his own
behavior. I merely report facts and offer my opinion. Readers are,
of course, able to draw their own...

This was an awfully shrill hissy fit for you to throw if your only
point is that this guy is "not a straight-shooter." I think your
whining says more negative things about you than about him. You
can't trust him? He was pretty up-front with you, if I look at how
you told the story. I'd say that YOU are the one that can't be
trusted. I certainly wouldnt want to deal with you. If I [censored]
and cried on RBM every time a deal fell through... well, I just
wouldnt, because it would be beneath me.

Why dont you go write "Gustafson sucks" on a bathroom wall? It
would be just as cathartic and less defamatory.

Jeez, having a bad day, there, VP? Or are you the seller in question?
Your overreaction is what seems shrill and hissy- far more so than
David White's statements. You might disagree with David and you might
have rational and well-thought out grounds for it. But your posts
seem, frankly, to be living up to your screen name.

Gotta agree with David on this one........guys a shady seller. If he wants
to run and auction; post the item on E-bay and pay the appropriate fees.
Otherwise, sell the item for your advertised price like most others on this
board. Better yet, if you're gonna try and get every last penny out of the
item and must use the bulletin board, then list it as "best offer" by a
certain date.

Thanks for the heads up David!!

"Velo Psycho" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David White said:

It may not be uncommon, it may be within the seller's rights, but

that really

Quoted message said:

does not make it the right thing to do or present the seller as a
straight-shooter (which is what I was reporting). My point here is

that, after

Quoted message said:

this kind of behavior, I would not buy from this person as I do not

believe

Quoted message said:

that I can trust his future actions.

For those who believe this that I have defamed the seller, this is

something

Quoted message said:

the seller has done to himself by virtue of his own behavior. I

merely report

Quoted message said:

facts and offer my opinion. Readers are, of course, able to draw

their own...

This was an awfully shrill hissy fit for you to throw if your only
point is that this guy is "not a straight-shooter." I think your
whining says more negative things about you than about him. You can't
trust him? He was pretty up-front with you, if I look at how you told
the story. I'd say that YOU are the one that can't be trusted. I
certainly wouldnt want to deal with you. If I [censored] and cried on RBM
every time a deal fell through... well, I just wouldnt, because it
would be beneath me.

Why dont you go write "Gustafson sucks" on a bathroom wall? It would
be just as cathartic and less defamatory.

I would have taken a selling price of the stated price/OBO to mean a
maximum of the stated price. Around here the OBO means the best offer
if lower than the stated price. I would not have offered any more than
the stated price under any circumstances.

David White said:

It may not be uncommon, it may be within the seller's rights, but that
really does not make it the right thing to do or present the seller as a
straight-shooter (which is what I was reporting). My point here is that,
after this kind of behavior, I would not buy from this person as I do
not believe that I can trust his future actions.

For those who believe this that I have defamed the seller, this is
something the seller has done to himself by virtue of his own behavior.
I merely report facts and offer my opinion. Readers are, of course, able
to draw their own...