Question on road bikes

Wild Wind said:

I never seem to see any road bike with mudguards and racks
fitted. If there is a good reason for this?

They lack the necessary rack/mudguard braze-ons and don't have the right
clearances for mudguards.

Quoted message said:

I'd like to
get a road bike myself for the enhanced speed - but I don't
want to get splashed going through puddles and I do use my
current bike quite a lot for carrying stuff around.

Get a so-called 'Audax' bike. It has slightly larger clearances and
braze-ons in all the right places. Good for fast, light touring.

Or get a tourer.

Wild Wind said:

I never seem to see any road bike with mudguards and racks
fitted. If there is a good reason for this?

Yes. When you fit mudgurads and rack it's an audax bike instead ;-)

Simonb <[email hidden]> wrote:

:> I'd like to
:> get a road bike myself for the enhanced speed - but I don't
:> want to get splashed going through puddles and I do use my
:> current bike quite a lot for carrying stuff around.

Or get a nice light, un-encumbered bike for when you want to go fast and
use your current bike for lugging stuff around.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

Wild Wind said:

I never seem to see any road bike with mudguards and racks
fitted. If there is a good reason for this? I'd like to
get a road bike myself for the enhanced speed - but I don't
want to get splashed going through puddles and I do use my
current bike quite a lot for carrying stuff around.

Some road bikes do have the abilty to take mudguards (sometimes racks as
well) but it's not very practical on most. It's also just nice to save
that weight, improve aerodynamics, improve access to wheels and tyres,
save potential hassle with maladjustment and just make the bike look good!

I suggest getting a road bike in addition to what you have now (or another
more practical bike), not instead. Use the racer for mainly dry-weather
light-luggage use, and the other bike(s) for the other times. Note that
it is possible to carry a certain amount on a bike without a conventional
rack by using a saddle bag or a seatpost rack.

Don't compromise too much by getting an audax job if you fancy a proper
fast one!

~PB

"Arthur Clune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simonb <[email hidden]> wrote:

No I didn't.

Quoted message said:

Or get a nice light, un-encumbered bike for when you want to go fast and
use your current bike for lugging stuff around.

Not really what the OP was asking for.

I agree with you, though; I'm going to get the Pinarello without m'guard
eyes so that I'm not tempted -- I can always fit a pair of race-blades if I
absolutely have to, though.

Wild Wind said:

I never seem to see any road bike with mudguards and racks
fitted. If there is a good reason for this?

A very good reason: they're made to go as fast as possible[1] for a
given price 'cause they're basically racing machines, and 'guards and
racks slow you down by adding a little weight and drag and decreasing
the amount you can spend on go-faster bits (like smoother transmission)
by requiring you not only to pay for the racks and 'guards but the frame
braze-ons to mount them.

Some of these bikes do have the braze-ons (and suitable clearances) for
mudguards (and racks), so they can be retro-fitted to these bikes. Or
SKS now do a minimalist 'guard called the Race Blade for minimalist
bikes, and an SQR seatpost bag will fit most things with a bit of
visible seatpost.

Quoted message said:

get a road bike myself for the enhanced speed - but I don't
want to get splashed going through puddles and I do use my
current bike quite a lot for carrying stuff around.

I use different bikes for different things. Since you probably won't be
going too fast carrying heavy luggage this may be the better approach.
Audax bikes are somewhere between a racer and tourer and are designed to
eat miles fast in comfort carrying light luggage, for more luggage
consider a tourer and/or a trailer. Or even a specialist freight bike
(I pick up 50 Kg of coal and 2 bags of kindling sticks as a regular load
on mine!).

Audax bikes are typified by the Dawes Audax and similar machines from
e.g. Thorn and Orbit, though at the risk of darkening Arthur's day again
you can go Dark Side with something like the HP Velotechnik Speedmachine
and go at a good speed in comfort on a damp day.

Pete.

[1] while also conforming to UCI rules, which often slows things down
/but/ it does mean you've got a standard people ride to so it's easier
to find a friendly chain gang if you fancy working out with a local
club, which will probably improve your speed more than a particular bike
will...

--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Wild Wind said:

I never seem to see any road bike with mudguards and racks
fitted. If there is a good reason for this? I'd like to
get a road bike myself for the enhanced speed - but I don't
want to get splashed going through puddles and I do use my
current bike quite a lot for carrying stuff around.

--
Akin

aknak at aksoto dot idps dot co dot uk

Have a look, some road bikes have brazeons which mean you can fit
guards/racks after. Or, look for an audax bike. Sort of a lightweight
tourer. Or a racer with mudguards/racks.

Dawes Audax, for example. Which is what I've got. And which, if I took
off rack and guards and other weighty paraphanalia would look just like
a (albeit not alu framed) road bike... *and* it's very light, too. Not
quite as light as alu, but light enough that even with racks etc I can
lift it onto shoulder with one arm to carry up and down flights of
stairs (impossible for wimpy girl to do with *normal* bikes).

--

Velvet

Peter Clinch said:

[1] while also conforming to UCI rules, which often slows things down
/but/ it does mean you've got a standard people ride to so it's easier
to find a friendly chain gang if you fancy working out with a local
club, which will probably improve your speed more than a particular
bike will...

LOL. Poor Pete. Say it. Go on... you know you want to.

Peter Clinch said:

at the risk of darkening Arthur's day
again you can go Dark Side with something like the HP Velotechnik
Speedmachine and go at a good speed in comfort on a damp day.

Although mine has a hefty diameter frame tube, a front mudguard AND a Crud
Catcher between me and the front wheel, I still get damp in the Nether
Regions when on wet roads. Something which puts one a little higher in
relation to the front wheel will do a much better job of keeping yer bum
dry...

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================

Velvet <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Dawes Audax, for example. Which is what I've got. And which, if I took
: off rack and guards and other weighty paraphanalia would look just like
: a (albeit not alu framed) road bike... *and* it's very light, too. Not

It's not that light compared to a race bike. Light compared to a gas-pipe
cheap bike, yes.

I used to have one. It's a very nice bike and served me very well indeed,
but it's not a race bike (hint: my 60cm Audax was about 6 lbs heavier than
my race bike)

Don't get me wrong here, I like the Audax a lot, but a race bike is a different
thing again.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

Peter Clinch <[email hidden]> wrote:

: consider a tourer and/or a trailer. Or even a specialist freight bike
: (I pick up 50 Kg of coal and 2 bags of kindling sticks as a regular load
: on mine!).

Out of interest, what have you got? ISTR a Burrows 8 Freight?

How does it compare to the standard bike + Bob, which is what I have?

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

Simonb said:

LOL. Poor Pete. Say it. Go on... you know you want to.

If you mean the R-word, I already did! ;-)

Seriously, one thing you don't get with a 'bent is any much chance of a
local pack of riders out pushing one another, and doing that is a /very/
good way to get a lot faster: "it's not about the bike", in other words.

But if you just want a fast bike then conforming to some arbitrary and
baroque specifications designed to ensure people race people with no
real performance edge from the machines they do it on is not a great recipe.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Arthur Clune said:

Velvet <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Dawes Audax, for example. Which is what I've got. And which, if I took
: off rack and guards and other weighty paraphanalia would look just like
: a (albeit not alu framed) road bike... *and* it's very light, too. Not

It's not that light compared to a race bike. Light compared to a gas-pipe
cheap bike, yes.

I used to have one. It's a very nice bike and served me very well indeed,
but it's not a race bike (hint: my 60cm Audax was about 6 lbs heavier than
my race bike)

Don't get me wrong here, I like the Audax a lot, but a race bike is a different
thing again.

Arthur

Well, probably :-) But I got the impression the OP wasn't actually
after an infinitely-light race bike - I did say road bike, maybe I've
catagorised bikes more than I thought I had :-)

Hmm, and thinking about it, I was comparing apples and pears - comparing
a much larger road bike (alu) with my smallest-size-they-do audax (531C
steel)...

Anyway, I still think the OP should investigate the audax-types :-)

--

Velvet

"Simonb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Wild Wind said:

I never seem to see any road bike with mudguards and racks
fitted. If there is a good reason for this?

They lack the necessary rack/mudguard braze-ons and don't have the right
clearances for mudguards.

Am I correct in saying that while it is technically feasible
to manufacture mudguards that will fit into the clearances provided
by road bikes, this isn't done because people who use road bikes
generally *don't* want mudguards that will slow them down anyway,
so there's no point in making them?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd like to
get a road bike myself for the enhanced speed - but I don't
want to get splashed going through puddles and I do use my
current bike quite a lot for carrying stuff around.

Get a so-called 'Audax' bike. It has slightly larger clearances and
braze-ons in all the right places. Good for fast, light touring.

Or get a tourer.

What's the difference between an Audax and a tourer?

--
Akin

aknak at aksoto dot idps dot co dot uk

"Arthur Clune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simonb <[email hidden]> wrote:

:> I'd like to
:> get a road bike myself for the enhanced speed - but I don't
:> want to get splashed going through puddles and I do use my
:> current bike quite a lot for carrying stuff around.

Or get a nice light, un-encumbered bike for when you want to go fast and
use your current bike for lugging stuff around.

Thanks for the suggestion, but unfortunately due to space
restrictions, I can only have the one bike. If I get a bit more
cash, I'm looking to get a Brompton though.

--
Akin

aknak at aksoto dot idps dot co dot uk

"Arthur Clune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Velvet <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Dawes Audax, for example. Which is what I've got. And which, if I took
: off rack and guards and other weighty paraphanalia would look just like
: a (albeit not alu framed) road bike... *and* it's very light, too. Not

It's not that light compared to a race bike. Light compared to a gas-pipe
cheap bike, yes.

I used to have one. It's a very nice bike and served me very well indeed,
but it's not a race bike (hint: my 60cm Audax was about 6 lbs heavier than
my race bike)

Don't get me wrong here, I like the Audax a lot, but a race bike is a

different

Quoted message said:

thing again.

how much does your race bike weigh?

cheers,
clive

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Wild Wind said:

I never seem to see any road bike with mudguards and racks
fitted. If there is a good reason for this?

A very good reason: they're made to go as fast as possible[1] for a
given price 'cause they're basically racing machines, and 'guards and
racks slow you down by adding a little weight and drag and decreasing
the amount you can spend on go-faster bits (like smoother transmission)
by requiring you not only to pay for the racks and 'guards but the frame
braze-ons to mount them.

Just curious... this shaving off of weight here and there, does
it really count in the end? In fact, I would have thought that
racers would be happy to have rack/mudguards to help them in training would
have thought that

Quoted message said:

Some of these bikes do have the braze-ons (and suitable clearances) for
mudguards (and racks), so they can be retro-fitted to these bikes. Or
SKS now do a minimalist 'guard called the Race Blade for minimalist
bikes, and an SQR seatpost bag will fit most things with a bit of
visible seatpost.

Quoted message said:

get a road bike myself for the enhanced speed - but I don't
want to get splashed going through puddles and I do use my
current bike quite a lot for carrying stuff around.

I use different bikes for different things. Since you probably won't be
going too fast carrying heavy luggage this may be the better approach.
Audax bikes are somewhere between a racer and tourer and are designed to
eat miles fast in comfort carrying light luggage, for more luggage
consider a tourer and/or a trailer. Or even a specialist freight bike
(I pick up 50 Kg of coal and 2 bags of kindling sticks as a regular load
on mine!).

Audax bikes are typified by the Dawes Audax and similar machines from
e.g. Thorn and Orbit, though at the risk of darkening Arthur's day again
you can go Dark Side with something like the HP Velotechnik Speedmachine
and go at a good speed in comfort on a damp day.

Pete.

[1] while also conforming to UCI rules, which often slows things down
/but/ it does mean you've got a standard people ride to so it's easier
to find a friendly chain gang if you fancy working out with a local
club, which will probably improve your speed more than a particular bike
will...

--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Wild Wind said:

"Simonb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Wild Wind said:

I never seem to see any road bike with mudguards and racks
fitted. If there is a good reason for this?

They lack the necessary rack/mudguard braze-ons and don't have the
right clearances for mudguards.

Am I correct in saying that while it is technically feasible
to manufacture mudguards that will fit into the clearances provided
by road bikes, this isn't done because people who use road bikes
generally *don't* want mudguards that will slow them down anyway,
so there's no point in making them?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd like to
get a road bike myself for the enhanced speed - but I don't
want to get splashed going through puddles and I do use my
current bike quite a lot for carrying stuff around.

Get a so-called 'Audax' bike. It has slightly larger clearances and
braze-ons in all the right places. Good for fast, light touring.

Or get a tourer.

What's the difference between an Audax and a tourer?

A tourer will have a longer wheelbase better suited to carrying heavy loads,
and larger clearances for fitting fatter tyres and mudguards. It will most
likely be made of steel as it gives a smoother ride over long distances.
'Audax' bikes tend to be more like road racers -- but with more concessions
towards touring/comfort, ie, slightly larger clearances, fittings for a rear
rack and mudguard eyes. That sort of thing.

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Wild Wind said:

I never seem to see any road bike with mudguards and racks
fitted. If there is a good reason for this?

A very good reason: they're made to go as fast as possible[1] for a
given price 'cause they're basically racing machines, and 'guards and
racks slow you down by adding a little weight and drag and decreasing
the amount you can spend on go-faster bits (like smoother transmission)
by requiring you not only to pay for the racks and 'guards but the frame
braze-ons to mount them.

Just curious... this shaving off of weight here and there, does
it really count in the end? I mean, I dare say it's possible to
design a mudguard that weighed 200g, but I don't know that the
negligible extra speed you would gain from losing 200g would be
worth the lack of protection from surface water.

But then again, we all have different things we look for in riding.

--
Akin

aknak at aksoto dot idps dot co dot uk