Mountain Bikes · Public discussion

Question on multi-use trails

Started by Monique Y. Herm · · Last activity · 30 posts · 1,162 views

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Mountain Bikes
Published
17 August 2003
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21 August 2003
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Monique Y. Herm
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  1. "Monique Y. Herman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    So, what do you folks think about policies that restrict bikes to certain days, etc? In this
    particular case, bikers can use the trail 5 days a week, and one of those days is on the weekend.

    I really think it sucks. Cyclist and pedestrians should have no problem co-existing. One of my
    favorite rides is about four hours from here. There are two longer trails and two shorter trails.
    The longer ones are only open every other day so that horseback riders can use them on the
    alternating days. And I've never seen any evidence of horses using the trails, ever!

  2. "Monique Y. Herman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    So, as some of you might recall, I'm fairly new to mountain biking. Things have been pretty busy,
    so my only rides this month have been three loops around Betasso, a fairly moderate 3.5 mile loop
    that nevertheless kicks my butt =)

    We got into a discussion about the Betasso policy, which is that bikes are not allowed on the
    trail Weds and Sat.

    Here's the deal. Boulder has an enormous amount of extremely high quality hiking trails in the
    mountains right around town. Hikers (of which I am one as well, by the way) are absolutely swamped
    with trail choices everywhere they look in Boulder. Exactly none of these trails allow bikes.

    As a hiking trail, Betasso is at best average for the Boulder area, especially compared to Bear
    Peak, Sanitas, or any of the bazillion trails around the Flatirons. But some hikers will stop at
    nothing in their quest to shut down trails to bikes.

    This is exactly what happened. Betasso is one of only four or five trails near (but still well
    outside) Boulder where you can ride your bike, and the hikers wanted to completely shut it down to
    bikes. Why? Who knows. This is why JD says Boulder is a lame place for a mountain biker (I concur).

    There were complaints of user conflicts on the trail, but a subsequent user survey failed to support
    this theory. Still, the hikers (and equestrians, by the way) were organized enough to get the
    attention of the Parks & Open Space beaurocrats. An advisory committee was formed, studies were
    done, and the committee recommended that the "problem" was a non-issue and that there should be no
    change to current policy (that is, bikes should still be allowed). Parks & Open Space dutifully
    ignored the advisory committee's recommendations, as is their way, and implemented the asinine
    policy we have today: bikes are excluded two days a week.

    Here's how I feel about this. Betasso is a high-use trail. It is of particularly high use because so
    few trails near Boulder are open to bikes. Anytime you have such high numbers of users, it's going
    to be a pain, whether you're on foot or riding a bike or a horse. You're forced to stop or at least
    slow down very frequently to pass each other on the trail. Hikers and equestrians complain loudly
    about all this (rather than simply trying to find a less-frequented trail, I might add), while
    bikers do not. Have you ever heard of an organized group of mountain bikers lobbying to get a trail
    shut down to hiking due to user conflicts? Of course not.

    Anyway, the current policy blatantly discriminates against mountain bikers (nothing new), and sets a
    very, very bad precedent. It pains me deeply to see anyone hold up Betasso as an example of the way
    user conflicts should be managed. The only way I could agree with this policy is if it were changed
    to exclude hikers and equestrians an equal number of days per week.

    I'm typing this out straight from memory, so if anyone sees facts that I may have misrepresented or
    left out, please let me know.

    bock

    Quoted message said:

    This policy seems all right to me

    Nope, it sucks. And I don't even like Betasso all that much.

  3. On 20 Aug 2003 14:48:17 -0700, Mark Bockmann <[email hidden]> penned: <snip>

    Quoted message said:


    Here's how I feel about this. Betasso is a high-use trail. It is of particularly high use because
    so few trails near Boulder are open to bikes. Anytime you have such high numbers of users, it's
    going to be a pain, whether you're on foot or riding a bike or a horse. You're forced to stop or
    at least slow down very frequently to pass each other on the trail. Hikers and equestrians
    complain loudly about all this (rather than simply trying to find a less-frequented trail, I might
    add), while bikers do not. Have you ever heard of an organized group of mountain bikers lobbying
    to get a trail shut down to hiking due to user conflicts? Of course not.

    Anyway, the current policy blatantly discriminates against mountain bikers (nothing new), and sets
    a very, very bad precedent. It pains me deeply to see anyone hold up Betasso as an example of the
    way user conflicts should be managed. The only way I could agree with this policy is if it were
    changed to exclude hikers and equestrians an equal number of days per week.


    <snip>

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    This policy seems all right to me

    Nope, it sucks. And I don't even like Betasso all that much.

    So here's my naive question:

    If mbers are being shafted because hikers and horsey-riders are vocal and organized ... why aren't
    mbers vocal and organized? MBers certainly seem to be passionate enough!

    Are there really that many more hikers than bikers in Boulder? It seems like every second car has a
    bike on its roof. And there *must* be more bikers than riders -- horses are expensive!

    If there's a local mountain-biking advocacy group around here that you know of, I would really
    appreciate it if you'd mention it to me.

    By the way, you mentioned (I think in a section I snipped) that Betasso isn't all that great for
    hikers. I brought my parents there because my mom is recovering from a broken leg and it seemed to
    have a decent view-to-difficulty tradeoff. I'm new to the area, but are there other hiking trails
    nearby that have similar or lesser difficulty and views at least as nice?

    --
    monique

  4. "Monique Y. Herman" <[email hidden]> wrote e!

    Quoted message said:


    If there's a local mountain-biking advocacy group around here that you know of, I would really
    appreciate it if you'd mention it to me.

    You might try the IMBA headquarters. It's on the Hill.

    CC

  5. "Monique Y. Herman" wrote

    Quoted message said:

    So here's my naive question:

    If mbers are being shafted because hikers and horsey-riders are vocal and organized ... why aren't
    mbers vocal and organized? MBers certainly seem to be passionate enough!

    Mountain bikers don't seem to be as vocal and organized as the groups that oppose us. For what
    reasons, I don't know.

    Quoted message said:

    Are there really that many more hikers than bikers in Boulder? It seems like every second car has
    a bike on its roof. And there *must* be more bikers than riders -- horses are expensive!

    There are many mountain bikers in Boulder, but there are always going to be more hikers. Horse
    people are by far the minority, but they get far more than their share of concessions because they
    are so vocal.

    Quoted message said:

    If there's a local mountain-biking advocacy group around here that you know of, I would really
    appreciate it if you'd mention it to me.

    IMBA is the national organization, and it's based right here in Boulder. Kind of ironic, since IMBA
    can't even get the local parks opened to bikes. Also, BOA (Boulder Offroad Alliance) is the local
    advocacy group (sort of like the local chapter of IMBA). Their websites...

    IMBA: www.imba.com BOA: www.boa-mtb.org

    Quoted message said:

    By the way, you mentioned (I think in a section I snipped) that Betasso isn't all that great for
    hikers. I brought my parents there because my mom is recovering from a broken leg and it seemed to
    have a decent view-to-difficulty tradeoff. I'm new to the area, but are there other hiking trails
    nearby that have similar or lesser difficulty and views at least as nice?

    Betasso is a lovely area, no doubt. And since it's so easy it does offer something for a person in
    your mom's situation. For other trails, try the Range View trail at the top of Flagstaff Mountain.
    It's easy, has amazing views, and can be combined with other trails to form a loop. The Red Rocks
    trail and Mt. Sanitas Trails are also great. Park on Mapleton at the west end of town for either of
    these. Sanitas is more strenuous, but you could also just do a loop down in the valley.

    bock

  6. RE/

    Quoted message said:

    Mountain bikers don't seem to be as vocal and organized as the groups that oppose us. For what
    reasons, I don't know.

    And I'd guess they have an additional disadvantage in that they irritate both hikers and horse
    people - so they've got both groups against them...
    -----------------------
    PeteCresswell

  7. [email hidden] (Corvus Corvax) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "Monique Y. Herman" <[email hidden]> wrote e!

    Quoted message said:


    If there's a local mountain-biking advocacy group around here that you know of, I would really
    appreciate it if you'd mention it to me.

    You might try the IMBA headquarters. It's on the Hill.

    The irony here is overwhelming and on oh so many levels.

    JD

  8. On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:24:47 GMT, (Pete Cresswell) <[email hidden]> penned:

    Quoted message said:

    RE/

    Quoted message said:

    Mountain bikers don't seem to be as vocal and organized as the groups that oppose us. For what
    reasons, I don't know.

    And I'd guess they have an additional disadvantage in that they irritate both hikers and horse
    people - so they've got both groups against them...
    -----------------------
    PeteCresswell

    Seems to me that most bikers are probably also at least occasionally hikers, whereas hikers may not
    bike? So maybe the bikers also happen to have a vested interest in keeping hiking available, whereas
    hikers don't ....

    Of course, I have zero actual data to back this up. Purely conjecture.

    --
    monique

  9. On 21 Aug 2003 10:32:08 -0700, JD <[email hidden]> penned:

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (Corvus Corvax) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "Monique Y. Herman" <[email hidden]> wrote e!

    Quoted message said:


    If there's a local mountain-biking advocacy group around here that you know of, I would really
    appreciate it if you'd mention it to me.

    You might try the IMBA headquarters. It's on the Hill.

    The irony here is overwhelming and on oh so many levels.

    JD

    Someone (maybe you, JD?) had already pointed out the existence as well as the ineffectiveness of
    the IMBA, so while I was aware of it, it sounded neither local (as in, "active in local affairs
    and politics"😉 nor useful. The fact that I live here and found out about it via a newsgroup does
    speak volumes ... then again, I haven't lived here long, and I've only owned a bike for about 2
    months now.

    --
    monique

  10. "Monique Y. Herman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Seems to me that most bikers are probably also at least occasionally


    hikers

    I don't think so (hike-a-bike doesn't count). I'd guess that maybe 5% of mountain bikers are "avid"
    hikers; 15% or so occasional ones.

    There's a *slight* possibility that I'm totally and completely a jillion percent off, however 🙂

    Bill "stats" S.

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