Question on mountain bikes

Wild Wind said:

A few days ago, I asked a question about why road
bikes weren't often seen with mudguards, and I got
the quite reasonable reply that roadies want to go
as fast as possible, and mudguards slowed them down.

It got me to thinking about why *mountain bikes* weren't
often seen with mudguards - and I'm talking about
*real* mudguards, not those bits of plastic that are
attached to the seat post. I don't think the speed
argument holds here, and besides MTB riders would
*benefit* from guards since they have to go across
all sorts of muddy terrain. So - why not?

At least...

1) Stuff can get caught between the wheels and the mudguards, which slows
you down.

2) If your front mudguard gets caught up in your wheel, you can get thrown
over the handlebars. This is more likely on a mountain-bike because of the
amount of abuse they get, and because of the amount of branches etc...
that might be on the tracks.

On the other hand, when I was about 12 I got mud in both eyes at once,
steered off the road, somersaulted over the handlebars and landed flat on
my back. Ouch!

AC

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It got me to thinking about why *mountain bikes* weren't
often seen with mudguards - and I'm talking about
*real* mudguards, not those bits of plastic that are
attached to the seat post. I don't think the speed
argument holds here, and besides MTB riders would
*benefit* from guards since they have to go across
all sorts of muddy terrain. So - why not?

You've nearly answered your own question...

Muddy terrain can quickly enlarge a tyre's girth to the extent that it will
fill the gap between the tyre and the mudgard causing an amazing amount of
drag and damage to the mudgard as it gets dragged forwards.

*Real* mudguards for mountain bikes are those the get affixed to the seat
post and down tube of the frame giving ample clearance for mud and gunge.

Another poster has pointed out the increased likelihood of getting the
mudgard stays snagged.

Wild Wind said:

A few days ago, I asked a question about why road
bikes weren't often seen with mudguards, and I got
the quite reasonable reply that roadies want to go
as fast as possible, and mudguards slowed them down.

And also get in the way of wheel changing/checking and add unnecessary
complication.

Quoted message said:

It got me to thinking about why *mountain bikes* weren't
often seen with mudguards - and I'm talking about
*real* mudguards, not those bits of plastic that are
attached to the seat post. I don't think the speed
argument holds here, and besides MTB riders would
*benefit* from guards since they have to go across
all sorts of muddy terrain. So - why not?

AC has given the reasons serious off-roaders prefer not to use them.
Manufacturers also save money. In fact that's the main reason MTBs sold
for every-day road use don' have them, coupled with the fact that
young/trendy people think they look "uncool" so marketing is easier
without them.

~PB

"Wild Wind" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It got me to thinking about why *mountain bikes* weren't
often seen with mudguards - and I'm talking about
*real* mudguards, not those bits of plastic that are
attached to the seat post. I don't think the speed
argument holds here, and besides MTB riders would
*benefit* from guards since they have to go across
all sorts of muddy terrain. So - why not?

Also they get sold without them fitted and people can't be bothered to buy
and fit them after they've bought their new bike.

--
Simon Mason
Anlaby
East Yorkshire.
53°44'N 0°26'W
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

In article <[email hidden]>, pclemantine{remove_fruit}
@biggs.tc says...

Quoted message said:

It got me to thinking about why *mountain bikes* weren't

Quoted message said:

often seen with mudguards - and I'm talking about
*real* mudguards, not those bits of plastic that are
attached to the seat post. I don't think the speed
argument holds here, and besides MTB riders would
*benefit* from guards since they have to go across
all sorts of muddy terrain. So - why not?

A lot of cyclists think they look uncool. Also, with so many variations
of front and rear suspension it would be difficult to manufacture a pair
that would be universal fitting.

--
Mark (MSA)
This post is packaged by intellectual weight, not volume. Some settling
of contents may have occurred during transmission

in message <[email hidden]>, Wild Wind

(') said:

A few days ago, I asked a question about why road
bikes weren't often seen with mudguards, and I got
the quite reasonable reply that roadies want to go
as fast as possible, and mudguards slowed them down.

It got me to thinking about why *mountain bikes* weren't
often seen with mudguards - and I'm talking about
*real* mudguards, not those bits of plastic that are
attached to the seat post. I don't think the speed
argument holds here, and besides MTB riders would
*benefit* from guards since they have to go across
all sorts of muddy terrain. So - why not?

Is it not obvious?

No, I suppose not.

Because, if you're dealing with large amounts of mud, mudguards clog up
and you can't cycle. The reason for the bits of plastic attached to the
seatpost is that they do deflect a surprisingly large proportion of the
mud and you don't get home with a brown stripe up your back, without
clogging up. The things that go under your downtube are useless. I
haven't tried the things that go under the fork crown (actually, it's
thirty years since I've had any mudguards on any of my bikes, but I
haven't tried them on anyone else's bikes either). After all, if you're
going mountain biking in muddy weather you're going to get seriously
muddy anyway, and the difference a mudguard would make isn't worth the
harassment.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

The trouble with Simon is that he only opens his mouth to change feet.
;; of me, by a 'friend'

Simon Brooke said:

The things that go under your downtube are useless. I
haven't tried the things that go under the fork crown (actually, it's
thirty years since I've had any mudguards on any of my bikes, but I
haven't tried them on anyone else's bikes either). After all, if you're
going mountain biking in muddy weather you're going to get seriously
muddy anyway, and the difference a mudguard would make isn't worth the
harassment.

The things under your fork crown work quite well and I disagree about not
worth it in muddy weather. Crudguards as they are called do keep a
significant amount of mud and water off you which can make a big difference if
its cold and wet.

Tony

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Wild Wind

(') said:

A few days ago, I asked a question about why road
bikes weren't often seen with mudguards, and I got
the quite reasonable reply that roadies want to go
as fast as possible, and mudguards slowed them down.

It got me to thinking about why *mountain bikes* weren't
often seen with mudguards - and I'm talking about
*real* mudguards, not those bits of plastic that are
attached to the seat post. I don't think the speed
argument holds here, and besides MTB riders would
*benefit* from guards since they have to go across
all sorts of muddy terrain. So - why not?

I believe that it's mostly down to fashion. On the continent it's common to see
serious MTBers riding bikes wearing guards during the non-summer seasons.

Quoted message said:

Because, if you're dealing with large amounts of mud, mudguards clog up
and you can't cycle.

In Cambridgeshire, the FORKS clog up and you can't cycle. Guess why there are a
lot of brick kilns about?

Quoted message said:

The reason for the bits of plastic attached to the
seatpost is that they do deflect a surprisingly large proportion of the
mud and you don't get home with a brown stripe up your back, without
clogging up.

Amen brother Simon.

Quoted message said:

The things that go under your downtube are useless.

Totally. They only stop stuff that would have stuck to your downtube.

Quoted message said:

I haven't tried the things that go under the fork crown (actually, it's
thirty years since I've had any mudguards on any of my bikes, but I
haven't tried them on anyone else's bikes either). After all, if you're
going mountain biking in muddy weather you're going to get seriously
muddy anyway, and the difference a mudguard would make isn't worth the
harassment.

No, the front guards that mount under the fork crown really stop A LOT of mud
and don't clog easily.

They especially stop the worst parts of the mud, which is the bits that fly
forward and upwards off the front wheel and are stopped by air resistance to
allow your mouth to catch up when you are going quickly.
--

-- M.

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simon Brooke said:

The things that go under your downtube are useless. I
haven't tried the things that go under the fork crown (actually, it's
thirty years since I've had any mudguards on any of my bikes, but I
haven't tried them on anyone else's bikes either). After all, if you're
going mountain biking in muddy weather you're going to get seriously
muddy anyway, and the difference a mudguard would make isn't worth the
harassment.

The things under your fork crown work quite well and I disagree about not
worth it in muddy weather. Crudguards as they are called do keep a
significant amount of mud and water off you which can make a big difference if
its cold and wet.

Damn! I just agreed with you AGAIN!

:-)
--

-- M.

Mark South said:

Damn! I just agreed with you AGAIN!

:-)

No you didn't

Tony ;-)

Mark South said:

In Cambridgeshire, the FORKS clog up and you can't cycle. Guess why there
are a lot of brick kilns about?

Tell me about it. One of the main reasons for switching to disk brakes was
because the V's trapped the mud and helped the clogging. Had an instance once
where the mud stopped the brake arms moving together. Fortunately the mud
also caused enough drag to slow me down and stop me.

BTW I think its not the mud but the subtle blend of mud and dried grass to
bind it all together.

Tony

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mark South said:

In Cambridgeshire, the FORKS clog up and you can't cycle. Guess why there
are a lot of brick kilns about?

Tell me about it. One of the main reasons for switching to disk brakes was
because the V's trapped the mud and helped the clogging. Had an instance once
where the mud stopped the brake arms moving together. Fortunately the mud
also caused enough drag to slow me down and stop me.

Clearly I do not need to tell you about it!

Quoted message said:

BTW I think its not the mud but the subtle blend of mud and dried grass to
bind it all together.

The grass may help. If one wants brick bicycle wheels one only has to shove
them in the kiln after a few miles on the bridleway.

One January I carried my 20 lb MTB the last 2 miles home. The wheels would no
longer turn at all. And the bike + mud weighed 40 lbs when I got home and
weighed it.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

Mark South said:

The grass may help. If one wants brick bicycle wheels one only has to shove
them in the kiln after a few miles on the bridleway.

The local term is, I believe, "mud polos"

Tony

PS A small pointing trowel in the toolkit is useful if you need to excavate
your wheels and forks on a ride.

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The things under your fork crown work quite well and I disagree about not

worth it in muddy weather. Crudguards as they are called do keep a
significant amount of mud and water off you which can make a big

difference if

I fitted the steerer tube type last winter and am very impressed. The DT
type are great for keeping flung dung from hitting the riders face, not
pleasant, but the fuller ones give protection to the riders jacket which
means it doesn't need washing so often and with the finnicky nature of
laundering good quality jackets this is quite a plus point.
I started using a rear Crud Guard years ago and it was perceived as very
uncool, so what, my shorts and saddles have all benefitted from not being
ground away by wet grit as well as increasing my comfort.
--
Regards,
Pete

in message <[email hidden]>, Tony Raven

(') said:

BTW I think its not the mud but the subtle blend of mud and dried
grass to bind it all together.

AKA 'daub', very popular for building houses in that part of the world.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
"The result is a language that... not even its mother could
love. Like the camel, Common Lisp is a horse designed by
committee. Camels do have their uses."
;; Scott Fahlman, 7 March 1995