Question on liver cleansing

"Grillox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

hi, I have a multitude of allergy related ailments, asthma, eczema,
hayfever, rhinitis etc. etc.

So do I. I went to an allergy doctor and found out exactly what I was
allergic to (tree pollen, horses, cats, weeds and grass pollen, nicotine,
and nickel metal --- the latter being the cause of the eczema).

So I have a prescription for Allegra (but I use a generic form of Benadryl
at night)... PLUS I know how to avoid many of the allergens, nickel in
particular.... and I also wash my hands after being outside or near cats
(keep the stuff out of my eyes, and even managed to live with a cat for
almost 20 years without much affect by washing after touching him), and to
avoid horse hair (which is old upholstery). Also, as finances got better...
we put in a furnace with an electrostatic filter and a whole house central
vacuum system (throws the dust OUTside, not out the back end and back into
the room).

Also my workplace went smokefree a L..O..N..G time ago, that helped more
than you can know (did catch one guy walking down the hallway in front of me
with a lit cigarette that he was trying to hide... so I asked him if he was
so daft as to think that no one would smell it).

Quoted message said:

a friend of mine has recomended that I do a liver cleanse and all
these problems will go away. this to me sounds too good to be true.

If it sounds too good to be true... it is.

Quoted message said:

before i do my week on apple juice and then the actual cleansing with
epson salts, grapefruit juice, olive oil (can't wait) can anyone tell
me their own experience, how they felt before, during and after?

That is a bunch of bunk.

1) Even with my layman's understanging of human anatomy, I don't see how
that "diet" affects the liver (perhaps your intenstinal tract).

2) Allergies are caused by a miscue in your immune system (it is a bit over
wired - your body is trying to protect you from TOO many things), and that h
as nothing to do with the liver.

The only diet changes I make during my major allergy season (early spring)
is to avoid beer (the allergy doctor told me that beer has histamines, and
that it could worsen my symptoms).

"Grillox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

hi, I have a multitude of allergy related ailments, asthma, eczema,
hayfever, rhinitis etc. etc.

a friend of mine has recomended that I do a liver cleanse and all
these problems will go away. this to me sounds too good to be true.

before i do my week on apple juice and then the actual cleansing with
epson salts, grapefruit juice, olive oil (can't wait) can anyone tell
me their own experience, how they felt before, during and after?

It worked fantastically for me , but my problem was gallstones not allergies
or the other problems you have . Why not find a good MD / Alternative doctor
and do the cleanse with their guidance ?, there may be other things you also
need to do.
I still do the cleanse to help keep my liver as healthy as possible .
Now wait for all the know it alls who will tell you I am stupid and so is my
doctor , because they will say it doesn't work . Most likely they will not
be coming from a basis of personal experience so their opinions are rather
pointless .
Personal anecdotal testimonies are only as valid as the person making them .
I have no reason to lie to you , if it didn't work for me I would say so .
You will just have to make up your own mind about this sort of stuff . The
question you also need to ask yourself is , "what do I have to lose by doing
this ? "
Bew
,,

I can second Bew's comments.

Do the dirty deed on a friday before you weekend. Eat a non-fat breakfast
and only a piece of fruit at lunch IIRC. Take you epsom salts solution that
evening. Take the grapefruit solution at 10 and go to bed immediately. We
wake up at 6 am and take the second last dose, fall asleep and the last one
at 8. You'll be eating a piece of fruit at 10 and small meals that morning.
Normal eating will resume Saturday afternoon.

Diarhea? Was a piece of cake. None during the night at all. No cramps but
lots of turquoise balls in the toilet. Felt like I was soooo healthy for a
few days. My head fog cleared up and I felt wonderful. My wife didn't notice
this as much but she doesn't have the symptoms like I do.

WE have done this about 5-6 times each for gallstones. It didn't work in my
wife's case, She had her gallbladder out anyway...hard as a rock and full of
stones and scar tissue. Was too late as she did low fat diets for years and
killed her gallbladder already.

I cannot stand the epsom salt solution and actually like the
grapefruit/olive oil mix but my wife was the other way around.

What do you have to lose? $2 worth of supplies? We didn't do the apple juice
prep.

Best of luck. You will laugh how easy it is after.
"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Grillox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

hi, I have a multitude of allergy related ailments, asthma, eczema,
hayfever, rhinitis etc. etc.

a friend of mine has recomended that I do a liver cleanse and all
these problems will go away. this to me sounds too good to be true.

before i do my week on apple juice and then the actual cleansing with
epson salts, grapefruit juice, olive oil (can't wait) can anyone tell
me their own experience, how they felt before, during and after?

It worked fantastically for me , but my problem was gallstones not

allergies

Quoted message said:

or the other problems you have . Why not find a good MD / Alternative

doctor

Quoted message said:

and do the cleanse with their guidance ?, there may be other things you

also

Quoted message said:

need to do.
I still do the cleanse to help keep my liver as healthy as possible .
Now wait for all the know it alls who will tell you I am stupid and so is

my

Quoted message said:

doctor , because they will say it doesn't work . Most likely they will not
be coming from a basis of personal experience so their opinions are rather
pointless .
Personal anecdotal testimonies are only as valid as the person making them

..

Quoted message said:

I have no reason to lie to you , if it didn't work for me I would say so .
You will just have to make up your own mind about this sort of stuff . The
question you also need to ask yourself is , "what do I have to lose by

doing

Quoted message said:

this ? "
Bew
,,

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Grillox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

hi, I have a multitude of allergy related ailments, asthma, eczema,
hayfever, rhinitis etc. etc.

a friend of mine has recomended that I do a liver cleanse and all
these problems will go away. this to me sounds too good to be true.

before i do my week on apple juice and then the actual cleansing with
epson salts, grapefruit juice, olive oil (can't wait) can anyone tell
me their own experience, how they felt before, during and after?

It worked fantastically for me , but my problem was gallstones not

allergies

Quoted message said:

or the other problems you have . Why not find a good MD / Alternative

doctor

Quoted message said:

and do the cleanse with their guidance ?, there may be other things you

also

Quoted message said:

need to do.
I still do the cleanse to help keep my liver as healthy as possible .
Now wait for all the know it alls who will tell you I am stupid and so is

my

Quoted message said:

doctor , because they will say it doesn't work . Most likely they will not
be coming from a basis of personal experience so their opinions are rather
pointless .
Personal anecdotal testimonies are only as valid as the person making them

..

Quoted message said:

I have no reason to lie to you , if it didn't work for me I would say so .

Of course you and Gymmy are not lying, and you felt a lot better after the
"cleanse". People usually feel better after any medical treatment at all,
and one that produces lots of brightly coloured globules in the faeces is
bound to be very gratifying.

We sceptics merely query what the globules are, as has been discussed here
many times before.

That discussion need not reflect on you unless you let it.

There are three different ways of looking at something like this. What is
the science of it? What are the ethics of advising such treatments for
serious illnesses? What can such a treatment mean to the consumer? Only
the first two should bother the sceptic. The consumer is always right, so
long as they understand certain limitations to that "rightness".

Peter Moran

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Question on liver cleansing
From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
Date: 4/13/2004 4:37 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:
<[email hidden]>

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Grillox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

hi, I have a multitude of allergy related ailments, asthma, eczema,
hayfever, rhinitis etc. etc.

a friend of mine has recomended that I do a liver cleanse and all
these problems will go away. this to me sounds too good to be true.

before i do my week on apple juice and then the actual cleansing with
epson salts, grapefruit juice, olive oil (can't wait) can anyone tell
me their own experience, how they felt before, during and after?

It worked fantastically for me , but my problem was gallstones not

allergies

Quoted message said:

or the other problems you have . Why not find a good MD / Alternative

doctor

Quoted message said:

and do the cleanse with their guidance ?, there may be other things you

also

Quoted message said:

need to do.
I still do the cleanse to help keep my liver as healthy as possible .
Now wait for all the know it alls who will tell you I am stupid and so is

my

Quoted message said:

doctor , because they will say it doesn't work . Most likely they will not
be coming from a basis of personal experience so their opinions are rather
pointless .
Personal anecdotal testimonies are only as valid as the person making them

.

Quoted message said:

I have no reason to lie to you , if it didn't work for me I would say so .

Of course you and Gymmy are not lying, and you felt a lot better after the
"cleanse". People usually feel better after any medical treatment at all,
and one that produces lots of brightly coloured globules in the faeces is
bound to be very gratifying.

Hardly, it is how one feels psysically. Neither is it imagined.

Quoted message said:

We sceptics merely query what the globules are, as has been discussed here
many times before.

These same sketpics are brainwashed orgnaized medicine members, who just can't
make a move until every last detail is proven.

Quoted message said:

That discussion need not reflect on you unless you let it.

Quoted message said:

There are three different ways of looking at something like this. What is
the science of it? What are the ethics of advising such treatments for
serious illnesses? What can such a treatment mean to the consumer?

Did you mention ethics?!?!

AFTER the ethics you showed us when Dr Wilson KILLED Jesse
Gelsinger,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,

Quoted message said:

The consumer is always right, so
long as they understand certain limitations to that "rightness".

Peter Moran

Or just KISS, try it and see for yourself. <GASP> no improvements would ever
have been made it we all waited until it is proven.

It is amazing how the skeptics are sooooooooooo concerned about a simple thing
as a liver cleasnse, but believe putting poison in the mouth that lets off
vapors and leaks to every organ in the body is right uptown.

Ho hum.

Jan

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Question on liver cleansing
From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
Date: 4/13/2004 4:37 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

<[email hidden].

au>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Grillox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> hi, I have a multitude of allergy related ailments, asthma, eczema,
> hayfever, rhinitis etc. etc.
>
> a friend of mine has recomended that I do a liver cleanse and all
> these problems will go away. this to me sounds too good to be true.
>
> before i do my week on apple juice and then the actual cleansing with
> epson salts, grapefruit juice, olive oil (can't wait) can anyone tell
> me their own experience, how they felt before, during and after?

It worked fantastically for me , but my problem was gallstones not

allergies

Quoted message said:

or the other problems you have . Why not find a good MD / Alternative

doctor

Quoted message said:

and do the cleanse with their guidance ?, there may be other things you

also

Quoted message said:

need to do.
I still do the cleanse to help keep my liver as healthy as possible .
Now wait for all the know it alls who will tell you I am stupid and so

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

my

Quoted message said:

doctor , because they will say it doesn't work . Most likely they will

not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be coming from a basis of personal experience so their opinions are

rather

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pointless .
Personal anecdotal testimonies are only as valid as the person making

them

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

.

Quoted message said:

I have no reason to lie to you , if it didn't work for me I would say

so .

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Of course you and Gymmy are not lying, and you felt a lot better after

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"cleanse". People usually feel better after any medical treatment at

all,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and one that produces lots of brightly coloured globules in the faeces

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bound to be very gratifying.

Hardly, it is how one feels psysically. Neither is it imagined.

Quoted message said:

We sceptics merely query what the globules are, as has been discussed

here

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

many times before.

These same sketpics are brainwashed orgnaized medicine members, who just

can't

Quoted message said:

make a move until every last detail is proven.

Quoted message said:

That discussion need not reflect on you unless you let it.

Quoted message said:

There are three different ways of looking at something like this. What

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the science of it? What are the ethics of advising such treatments for
serious illnesses? What can such a treatment mean to the consumer?

Did you mention ethics?!?!

AFTER the ethics you showed us when Dr Wilson KILLED Jesse
Gelsinger,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,

Quoted message said:

The consumer is always right, so
long as they understand certain limitations to that "rightness".

Peter Moran

Or just KISS, try it and see for yourself. <GASP> no improvements would

ever

Quoted message said:

have been made it we all waited until it is proven.

It is amazing how the skeptics are sooooooooooo concerned about a simple

thing

Quoted message said:

as a liver cleasnse,

It is not so simple. The only reason I am here is that some nutcases
(never any of the many MDs) within alternative medicine are pretending that
this kind of feel-good ritual will help patients get over cancer and other
serious illnesses. It won't, and it is not at all healthy for a lot of
people to be believing so much stuff that is just not so.

Is this your usual reflex thing, or are you prepared to argue that the waxy
globules are gallstones and that the removal of such has significant effects
upon health?

Peter Moran

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Question on liver cleansing
From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
Date: 4/13/2004 7:45 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:
<[email hidden]>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Question on liver cleansing
From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
Date: 4/13/2004 4:37 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

<[email hidden].

au>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> "Grillox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
> > hi, I have a multitude of allergy related ailments, asthma, eczema,
> > hayfever, rhinitis etc. etc.
> >
> > a friend of mine has recomended that I do a liver cleanse and all
> > these problems will go away. this to me sounds too good to be true.
> >
> > before i do my week on apple juice and then the actual cleansing with
> > epson salts, grapefruit juice, olive oil (can't wait) can anyone tell
> > me their own experience, how they felt before, during and after?
>
>
> It worked fantastically for me , but my problem was gallstones not
allergies
> or the other problems you have . Why not find a good MD / Alternative
doctor
> and do the cleanse with their guidance ?, there may be other things you
also
> need to do.
> I still do the cleanse to help keep my liver as healthy as possible .
> Now wait for all the know it alls who will tell you I am stupid and so

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

my
> doctor , because they will say it doesn't work . Most likely they will

not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> be coming from a basis of personal experience so their opinions are

rather

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> pointless .
> Personal anecdotal testimonies are only as valid as the person making

them

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

.
> I have no reason to lie to you , if it didn't work for me I would say

so .

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Of course you and Gymmy are not lying, and you felt a lot better after

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"cleanse". People usually feel better after any medical treatment at

all,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and one that produces lots of brightly coloured globules in the faeces

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bound to be very gratifying.

Hardly, it is how one feels psysically. Neither is it imagined.

Quoted message said:

We sceptics merely query what the globules are, as has been discussed

here

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

many times before.

These same sketpics are brainwashed orgnaized medicine members, who just

can't

Quoted message said:

make a move until every last detail is proven.

Quoted message said:

That discussion need not reflect on you unless you let it.

Quoted message said:

There are three different ways of looking at something like this. What

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the science of it? What are the ethics of advising such treatments for
serious illnesses? What can such a treatment mean to the consumer?

Did you mention ethics?!?!

AFTER the ethics you showed us when Dr Wilson KILLED Jesse
Gelsinger,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,

Quoted message said:

The consumer is always right, so
long as they understand certain limitations to that "rightness".

Peter Moran

Or just KISS, try it and see for yourself. <GASP> no improvements would

ever

Quoted message said:

have been made it we all waited until it is proven.

It is amazing how the skeptics are sooooooooooo concerned about a simple

thing

Quoted message said:

as a liver cleasnse,

It is not so simple.

Have you tried it?

Quoted message said:

The only reason I am here is that some nutcases

Yes we have heard this speech before.

That's a good little organized medicine member who ws taught pyschobable in med
school.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

feel-good ritual

Thanks for the example.

As a matter of fact there are no rituals in alternative medicine.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Is this your usual reflex thing, or are you prepared to argue that the waxy
globules are gallstones and that the removal of such has significant effects
upon health?

Peter Moran

It's been discussed, you have a desire to say it all over again??

There are people here who have used it with success. That's what this ng is all
about. Not the stomping and stammering of the so called skeptics.

And you forgot to address my coment. Why are the skeptics (gang) sooooooooooo
concerned about a simple thing like a liver cleanse, but believe a poison in
the mouth that lets off vapors and leaks to every organ in the body and damages
the environment is right uptown.

Ah?

Jan

All snipped .

Quoted message said:

It is not so simple. The only reason I am here is that some nutcases
(never any of the many MDs) within alternative medicine are pretending

that

Quoted message said:

this kind of feel-good ritual will help patients get over cancer and other
serious illnesses. It won't, and it is not at all healthy for a lot of
people to be believing so much stuff that is just not so.

Is this your usual reflex thing, or are you prepared to argue that the

waxy

Quoted message said:

globules are gallstones and that the removal of such has significant

effects

Quoted message said:

upon health?

Peter Moran

.....................
As I have said before my doctor certainly knows gallstones when he sees them
.. Your problem is that you cannot accept anyone elses version of an event ,
your narrow minded blinkered vision only accepts things told to you by the
drug companies . If proving it is so important to you , then do the
experiment yourself or get a volunteer . Pretty simple challenge really ,
let us know how you got on .
.............

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Question on liver cleansing
From: "Bew" qw@nonamewhatsover
Date: 4/14/2004 10:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

As I have said before my doctor certainly knows gallstones when he sees them

hmmmm....I seriously doubt that....very few doctors have actually SEEN
gallstones...even surgeons who remove gallbladders usually don't take the time
and effort to LOOK at such things...they DO go to pathology...which is the only
place it can be confirmed that they ARE in fact from the gallbladder

so bringing in a jar filled with turquoise globs...and looking and saying
"yep...these are gallstones??" don't think so....

what kind of a "doctor" is this again??

hawki.....

"Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Question on liver cleansing
From: "Bew" qw@nonamewhatsover
Date: 4/14/2004 10:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

As I have said before my doctor certainly knows gallstones when he sees

them

Quoted message said:

hmmmm....I seriously doubt that....very few doctors have actually SEEN
gallstones...even surgeons who remove gallbladders usually don't take the

time

Quoted message said:

and effort to LOOK at such things...they DO go to pathology...which is the

only

Quoted message said:

place it can be confirmed that they ARE in fact from the gallbladder

so bringing in a jar filled with turquoise globs...and looking and saying
"yep...these are gallstones??" don't think so....

what kind of a "doctor" is this again??

Fictitious?

These people will never believe themselves! It doesn't matter how well it
works if the doctor doesn't say so (with his two years of college) then it
just ain't so.

What is the herbal supplement for "a mind of your own"?

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

All snipped .

Quoted message said:

It is not so simple. The only reason I am here is that some nutcases
(never any of the many MDs) within alternative medicine are pretending

that

Quoted message said:

this kind of feel-good ritual will help patients get over cancer and

other

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

serious illnesses. It won't, and it is not at all healthy for a lot

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

people to be believing so much stuff that is just not so.

Is this your usual reflex thing, or are you prepared to argue that the

waxy

Quoted message said:

globules are gallstones and that the removal of such has significant

effects

Quoted message said:

upon health?

Peter Moran

....................
As I have said before my doctor certainly knows gallstones when he sees

them

Quoted message said:

. Your problem is that you cannot accept anyone elses version of an event

,

Quoted message said:

your narrow minded blinkered vision only accepts things told to you by the
drug companies . If proving it is so important to you , then do the
experiment yourself or get a volunteer . Pretty simple challenge really ,
let us know how you got on .
............

"Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Question on liver cleansing
From: "Bew" qw@nonamewhatsover
Date: 4/14/2004 10:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

As I have said before my doctor certainly knows gallstones when he sees

them

Quoted message said:

hmmmm....I seriously doubt that....very few doctors have actually SEEN
gallstones...even surgeons who remove gallbladders usually don't take the

time

Quoted message said:

and effort to LOOK at such things...they DO go to pathology...which is the

only

Quoted message said:

place it can be confirmed that they ARE in fact from the gallbladder

so bringing in a jar filled with turquoise globs...and looking and saying
"yep...these are gallstones??" don't think so....

what kind of a "doctor" is this again??

hawki.....

...........

Whatever , ,,, as usual , you simply bore me . Now you are insulting doctors
by telling them they wouldn't know a gallstone from a kneecap , my god you
are dim witted person . Reply if you like but I won't see it , end of
conversation .
...........................

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Question on liver cleansing
From: "Bew" qw@nonamewhatsover
Date: 4/14/2004 10:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

As I have said before my doctor certainly knows gallstones when he sees

them

Quoted message said:

hmmmm....I seriously doubt that....very few doctors have actually SEEN
gallstones...even surgeons who remove gallbladders usually don't take

the

Quoted message said:

time

Quoted message said:

and effort to LOOK at such things...they DO go to pathology...which is

the

Quoted message said:

only

Quoted message said:

place it can be confirmed that they ARE in fact from the gallbladder

so bringing in a jar filled with turquoise globs...and looking and

saying

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"yep...these are gallstones??" don't think so....

what kind of a "doctor" is this again??

hawki.....

..........

Whatever , ,,, as usual , you simply bore me . Now you are insulting

doctors

Quoted message said:

by telling them they wouldn't know a gallstone from a kneecap , my god you
are dim witted person . Reply if you like but I won't see it , end of
conversation .
..........................

One thing you can say about Bew, s/h/it has never found a question that
s/h/it can answer.

Must have been taking lessons from Bush's press conference....

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Question on liver cleansing
From: "Bew" qw@nonamewhatsover
Date: 4/15/2004 1:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Whatever , ,,, as usual , you simply bore me .

yep,,,the truth hurts

Quoted message said:

Now you are insulting doctors
by telling them they wouldn't know a gallstone from a kneecap ,

most wouldn't...and that is NOT an insult to MY profession....pebbles in a
jar??? spare me?? they would have to go to pathology for an accurate
diagnosis...

dim witted?? describing yourself...

now I KNOW you won't read this..perhaps the others will have a laugh on you
then...
hawki.....