Question: Medications

Alex said:

Over two months ago, my mom had a coronary attack. She
didn't pass out, but she spent a couple of days in
hospital under observation.

Further tests showed she was some narrowing of the
arteries, and has been recommended for a bypass operation.

And I presume that she had turned down this recommendation.

Quoted message said:

She had no real symptoms in the days before the attack, no
pain in the arms, however for some years she has
complained about dizzyness, migraines, etc. During the
attack she felt dizzy and had pain in her arms, but did
manage to cycle home.

One would then expect that future arm pains would indicate
either angina or heart attack.

Quoted message said:

An attack was diagnosed when she went to hospital a day
later. Her blood pressure was too high, her cholesterol,
sugar level, heart rate were too high, for which she is
now taking medications.

She has been taking thyroid medication for some years,
which made her lose weight, upon which she was recommended
to eat some dairy products daily, which she has.

Uh-oh. Milk fat is highly atherogenic.

Quoted message said:

This made her put on some weight, but I have my suspicions
that it might have something to do with her current
problems, although I can't prove it of course.

Right now, after her coronary, she is of course a little
paranoid about any types of aches and pains. In the
mornings, she does have pain in her arms, which go away
when she goes out and cycling and shopping.

So the question is: could this pain be caused by any of
her medications (which would be ideal, if we could
substitute another brand that didn't have these side
effects) or is this more serious?

Could still be from her heart (angina) given her history all
though improvement with exertion is atypical.

Quoted message said:

She is on the following mediations:

Ascal Plavix (Iscover) Selokeen Zoc (Tartraat [censored]
Metroprolol) Promocard Lipitor (which she doesn't take)
Rastinan (Amaryl) Pantazol Thyrax Duspatal Lasix
(Furosemide) Coversyl

In brackets are the similar (cheaper) medications she has
from the farmacy.

Any help would be appreciated.

Alex

Imho, she may be having angina (possibly variant).

Would suggest you print this out and fax it to her doctor.

S/he should be able to take over from here.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
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Lets see.

Women tend to have different heart attack symptoms than men.
They often do not get the crushing chest pain, but rather
more minor pains, nausea, dizziness, etc. Your mother's
attack isn't unusual.

Just looking over the meds, I see that she is taking Lasix,
which is often prescribed for congestive heart failure and
its associated problems.

I don't believe the heart attack was caused by her
medications, or even by a thyroid problem. It was quite
likely a result of long term damage from diet, and daily
life. The "dizziness" and migranes could have been the
result of the narrowing of the arteries all these years.

Often times I associate dizziness and lack of mental acuity
with atrial problems. I associate pain and major circulatory
compromise with ventricular problems. These are only
guidelines until I can see their EKG. Your mothers situation
was one This in which the arteries in general are narrowing
(causing the dizziness, etc), and now a few coronary
arteries are affected too much for them to continue.

Michael "Alex" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Over two months ago, my mom had a coronary attack. She
didn't pass out, but she spent a couple of days in
hospital under observation.

Further tests showed she was some narrowing of the
arteries, and has been recommended for a bypass operation.

She had no real symptoms in the days before the attack, no
pain in the arms, however for some years she has
complained about dizzyness, migraines, etc. During the
attack she felt dizzy and had pain in her arms, but did
manage to cycle home. An attack was diagnosed when she
went to hospital a day later. Her blood pressure was too
high, her cholesterol, sugar level, heart rate were too
high, for which she is now taking medications.

She has been taking thyroid medication for some years,
which made her lose weight, upon which she was recommended
to eat some dairy products daily, which she has. This made
her put on some weight, but I have my suspicions that it
might have something to do with her current problems,
although I can't prove it of course.

Right now, after her coronary, she is of course a little
paranoid about any types of aches and pains. In the
mornings, she does have pain in her arms, which go away
when she goes out and cycling and shopping.

So the question is: could this pain be caused by any of
her medications (which would be ideal, if we could
substitute another brand that didn't have these side
effects) or is this more serious?

She is on the following mediations:

Ascal Plavix (Iscover) Selokeen Zoc (Tartraat [censored]
Metroprolol) Promocard Lipitor (which she doesn't take)
Rastinan (Amaryl) Pantazol Thyrax Duspatal Lasix
(Furosemide) Coversyl

In brackets are the similar (cheaper) medications she has
from the farmacy.

Any help would be appreciated.

Alex

"nambucca" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Alex" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Over two months ago, my mom had a coronary attack. She
didn't pass out, but she spent a couple of days in
hospital under observation.

Further tests showed she was some narrowing of the
arteries, and has been recommended for a bypass
operation.

She had no real symptoms in the days before the attack,
no pain in the arms, however for some years she has
complained about dizzyness, migraines, etc. During the
attack she felt dizzy and had pain in her arms, but did
manage to cycle home. An attack was diagnosed when she
went to hospital a day later. Her blood pressure was too
high, her cholesterol, sugar level, heart rate were too
high, for which she is now taking medications.

She has been taking thyroid medication for some years,
which made her lose weight, upon which she was
recommended to eat some dairy products daily, which she
has. This made her put on some weight, but I have my
suspicions that it might have something to do with her
current problems, although I can't prove it of course.

Right now, after her coronary, she is of course a little
paranoid about any types of aches and pains. In the
mornings, she does have pain in her arms, which go away
when she goes out and cycling and shopping.

So the question is: could this pain be caused by any of
her medications (which would be ideal, if we could
substitute another brand that didn't have these side
effects) or is this more serious?

She is on the following mediations:

Ascal Plavix (Iscover) Selokeen Zoc (Tartraat [censored]
Metroprolol) Promocard Lipitor (which she doesn't take)
Rastinan (Amaryl) Pantazol Thyrax Duspatal Lasix
(Furosemide) Coversyl

In brackets are the similar (cheaper) medications she
has from the farmacy.

Any help would be appreciated.

Alex

Heart problems occur in an undertreated Hypothyroid
patient as I suspect your mother is and eating dairy
would exacerbate this since cholesterol levels are dicey
in hypo patients............Lipitor is to reduce
cholesterol so why on earth would they encourage her to
load up on dairy ??????

But she is on a plethora of medications and this should be
properly reviewed as she seems to be on way too many and
could be they are all fighting each other

Aches and pains which go away once moving about can be a
sign of Arthritis of one form or another but may also be
the undertreated hypothyroid too

Hi,

Thanks for a serious response.

How do you mean undertreated, with regards to her thyroid
problems? What more treatment is there, apart from the
Thyrax she's been taking for a long time?

Alex

I think Dr. Chung probably nailed it better than my
feeble attempt.

Michael "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Alex said:

Over two months ago, my mom had a coronary attack. She
didn't pass out, but she spent a couple of days in
hospital under observation.

Further tests showed she was some narrowing of the
arteries, and has been recommended for a bypass
operation.

And I presume that she had turned down this
recommendation.

Quoted message said:

She had no real symptoms in the days before the attack,
no pain in the arms, however for some years she has
complained about dizzyness, migraines, etc. During the
attack she felt dizzy and had pain in her arms, but did
manage to cycle home.

One would then expect that future arm pains would indicate
either angina or heart attack.

Quoted message said:

An attack was diagnosed when she went to hospital a day
later. Her blood pressure was too high, her cholesterol,
sugar level, heart rate were too high, for which she is
now taking medications.

She has been taking thyroid medication for some years,
which made her lose weight, upon which she was
recommended to eat some dairy products daily, which
she has.

Uh-oh. Milk fat is highly atherogenic.

Quoted message said:

This made her put on some weight, but I have my
suspicions that it might have something to do with her
current problems, although I can't prove it of course.

Right now, after her coronary, she is of course a little
paranoid about any types of aches and pains. In the
mornings, she does have pain in her arms, which go away
when she goes out and cycling and shopping.

So the question is: could this pain be caused by any of
her medications (which would be ideal, if we could
substitute another brand that didn't have these side
effects) or is this more serious?

Could still be from her heart (angina) given her history
all though improvement with exertion is atypical.

Quoted message said:

She is on the following mediations:

Ascal Plavix (Iscover) Selokeen Zoc (Tartraat [censored]
Metroprolol) Promocard Lipitor (which she doesn't take)
Rastinan (Amaryl) Pantazol Thyrax Duspatal Lasix
(Furosemide) Coversyl

In brackets are the similar (cheaper) medications she
has from the farmacy.

Any help would be appreciated.

Alex

Imho, she may be having angina (possibly variant).

Would suggest you print this out and fax it to her doctor.

S/he should be able to take over from here.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist
heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.comOpen ↗

** Who is the humblest person in the universe?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

What is all this about?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

Is this spam? makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

"Herman Family" <[email hidden]/without_any_s/> schreef in bericht
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Often times I associate dizziness and lack of mental
acuity with atrial problems. I associate pain and major
circulatory compromise with ventricular problems. These
are only guidelines until I can see their EKG. Your
mothers situation was one in which the arteries in general
are narrowing (causing the dizziness, etc), and now a few
coronary arteries are affected too much for them to
continue.

Do you have any opinion on number and amount of medication
she has to take?

Aren't they overprescribing her?

Alex

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ascal Plavix (Iscover) Selokeen Zoc (Tartraat [censored]
Metroprolol) Promocard Lipitor (which she doesn't take)
Rastinan (Amaryl) Pantazol Thyrax Duspatal Lasix
(Furosemide) Coversyl

Quoted message said:

How do you mean undertreated, with regards to her thyroid
How do you mean undertreated, with regards to her thyroid
problems? What more treatment is there, apart from the
Thyrax she's been taking for a long time?

"undertreated" would have better been "underdosed"

MDs used to dose by symptoms. When the ultra-sensitive TSH
tests were introduced, most MD shifted to treating by TSH
levels -- even though these assumptions were never proven:
1) TSH levels in hypos on thryoid replacement are assumed
to be the same TSH levels in normal people (intact
thyroid gland)
2) TSH levels as measured by the ultrasensitive TSH test are
assumed to be unaffected by timing of blood draw relative
to time dose was taken
3) TSH "normal" ranges as set by labs are assumed to
represent normalcy (actually disproven by repeated
readjustment of "normal" ranges over the years)

As a result of dosing by TSH levels, based on unproven (and
probably false) assumptions, it appears that many (perhaps
most) people on thyroid hormone replacement are being
systematically UNDERdosed. Add to this that MDs are told
that OVERdosing leads to severe problems (NOT TRUE, SEVERE
overdosing leads to severe problems, mild overdosing has not
been shown to be any worse than underdosing). So they want
to "err to the side of caution" under the mistaken
assumption that mild UNDERdose is much less of a risk than
mild OVERdose. In particular, osteoporosis is trotted out as
a risk of OVERdose, whereas it is just as much a risk factor
(or perhaps even more so) for thyroid UNDERdose. (Absorption
of nutrients, e.g., vitamins, minerals, is impaired during
hypo-thyroidism if untreated OR UNDERtreated. Calcium
absorption problems can lead to osteoporosis issues for
UNDERtreated hypo-thyroid patients.)

Known issues of underdosing, beyond not having symptoms
fully relieved, include: tendency to increased cholesterol
levels increased susceptibility to insulin resistance and
development of type 2 diabetes (another risk factor for
cardiac and circulatory problems) among many other things.

Both overdosing and underdosing can lead to permanent
changes in the circulatory system which may make heart
attack more likely.

Bottom line, under the mistaken impression that MILD OVER-
dose of thyroid hormones is much worse than MILD UNDER-dose,
many MDs routinely under-prescribe and thus under-dose their
patients. They believe this is the lower risk approach, but
the bases for that belief are mostly unproven assumptions,
and the mis-application of data from high overdose levels to
the risk assessment for possible mild overdose conditions.

DISCLAIMER: my doctorate is in engineering not medicine.