Question for Will. "Fat Fasts"

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
:: It's been preached to us for years that "fat makes you fat", so why
:: does
:: a fat fast work so well to break weight plateaus?
:: A 5 to 7 day fat fast will throw you into BDK faster than low carbing
:: and burn off weight at an accelerated rate.
::
:: They are boring and tedious but they really work.
::
:: What I don't understand is the metabolic mechanism behind it.
::
:: Any comments?

How many calories do you eat on your fat fast? Are you very insulin
resistant?

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

It's been preached to us for years that "fat makes you fat", so why
does a fat fast work so well to break weight plateaus?
A 5 to 7 day fat fast will throw you into BDK faster than low carbing
and burn off weight at an accelerated rate.

They are boring and tedious but they really work.

What I don't understand is the metabolic mechanism behind it.

Any comments?

Could just be that you personally cut out a lot of calories by not eating
fat and don't eat loads of carbs to compensate, so you have a huge calorie
deficit and weight has to go.

Wouldn't work like that for me if I just stopped eating fat - I'd be quite
capable of pigging out on bread and so on and getting fatter.

Peter

Peter Allen wrote:
:: OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
::: It's been preached to us for years that "fat makes you fat", so why
::: does a fat fast work so well to break weight plateaus?
::: A 5 to 7 day fat fast will throw you into BDK faster than low
::: carbing and burn off weight at an accelerated rate.
:::
::: They are boring and tedious but they really work.
:::
::: What I don't understand is the metabolic mechanism behind it.
:::
::: Any comments?
::
:: Could just be that you personally cut out a lot of calories by not
:: eating fat and don't eat loads of carbs to compensate, so you have a
:: huge calorie deficit and weight has to go.
::
:: Wouldn't work like that for me if I just stopped eating fat - I'd be
:: quite capable of pigging out on bread and so on and getting fatter.
::
:: Peter

On a fat fast you actually eat mostly fat....

Roger Zoul said:

Peter Allen wrote:
:: OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
::: It's been preached to us for years that "fat makes you fat", so

why

Quoted message said:

::: does a fat fast work so well to break weight plateaus?
::: A 5 to 7 day fat fast will throw you into BDK faster than low
::: carbing and burn off weight at an accelerated rate.
:::
::: They are boring and tedious but they really work.
:::
::: What I don't understand is the metabolic mechanism behind it.
:::
::: Any comments?
::
:: Could just be that you personally cut out a lot of calories by not
:: eating fat and don't eat loads of carbs to compensate, so you have

a

Quoted message said:

:: huge calorie deficit and weight has to go.
::
:: Wouldn't work like that for me if I just stopped eating fat - I'd

be

Quoted message said:

:: quite capable of pigging out on bread and so on and getting

fatter.

Quoted message said:

::
:: Peter

On a fat fast you actually eat mostly fat....

So thats an Atkins style diet then.

Roger Zoul said:

Peter Allen said:

Quoted message said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> It's been preached to us for years that "fat makes you fat", so why
> does a fat fast work so well to break weight plateaus?
> A 5 to 7 day fat fast will throw you into BDK faster than low
> carbing and burn off weight at an accelerated rate.
>
> They are boring and tedious but they really work.
>
> What I don't understand is the metabolic mechanism behind it.
>
> Any comments?

Could just be that you personally cut out a lot of calories by not
eating fat and don't eat loads of carbs to compensate, so you have a
huge calorie deficit and weight has to go.

Wouldn't work like that for me if I just stopped eating fat - I'd be
quite capable of pigging out on bread and so on and getting fatter.

Peter

On a fat fast you actually eat mostly fat....

Ah...

paint me stupid today, then

Peter

Quoted message said:

Roger Zoul said:

Peter Allen wrote:
:: OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
::: It's been preached to us for years that "fat makes you fat", so

why

Quoted message said:

::: does a fat fast work so well to break weight plateaus?
::: A 5 to 7 day fat fast will throw you into BDK faster than low
::: carbing and burn off weight at an accelerated rate.
:::
::: They are boring and tedious but they really work.
:::
::: What I don't understand is the metabolic mechanism behind it.
:::
::: Any comments?
::
:: Could just be that you personally cut out a lot of calories by not
:: eating fat and don't eat loads of carbs to compensate, so you have

a

Quoted message said:

:: huge calorie deficit and weight has to go.
::
:: Wouldn't work like that for me if I just stopped eating fat - I'd

be

Quoted message said:

:: quite capable of pigging out on bread and so on and getting

fatter.

Quoted message said:

::
:: Peter

On a fat fast you actually eat mostly fat....

So thats an Atkins style diet then.

yeah....

In article <[email hidden]>,

Roger Zoul said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
:: It's been preached to us for years that "fat makes you fat", so why
:: does
:: a fat fast work so well to break weight plateaus?
:: A 5 to 7 day fat fast will throw you into BDK faster than low carbing
:: and burn off weight at an accelerated rate.
::
:: They are boring and tedious but they really work.
::
:: What I don't understand is the metabolic mechanism behind it.
::
:: Any comments?

How many calories do you eat on your fat fast?

The Atkins fat fast recommends only 1,000.
I probably do that plus or minus around 100.

It's pretty low calorie.

Quoted message said:

Are you very insulin
resistant?

Yes, VERY!!! :-(

That is why my doctor put me on Metformin. 2,000 mg. per day.

Quoted message said:

--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

Peter Allen said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

It's been preached to us for years that "fat makes you fat", so why
does a fat fast work so well to break weight plateaus?
A 5 to 7 day fat fast will throw you into BDK faster than low carbing
and burn off weight at an accelerated rate.

They are boring and tedious but they really work.

What I don't understand is the metabolic mechanism behind it.

Any comments?

Could just be that you personally cut out a lot of calories by not eating
fat and don't eat loads of carbs to compensate, so you have a huge calorie
deficit and weight has to go.

What has been interesting to me tho' is that, thru my years of
attempting to lose weight, I've gotten totally [censored] in the past
and gone on TOTAL fasts. The longest I ever went without eating was 2
weeks.

What has fascinated me is that the fat fasting burns fat FASTER than
total fasting.

It's wierd.

Quoted message said:

Wouldn't work like that for me if I just stopped eating fat - I'd be quite
capable of pigging out on bread and so on and getting fatter.

Peter

I would probably not lose weight on 1,000 kc of carbs per day at
anywhere near the rate that fat fasting does. I can drop 1/2 lb. per day
and I know it's real weight because it stays off when I start back on
the Southbeach eating plan.

Quoted message said:

--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

Roger Zoul said:

Peter Allen wrote:
:: OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
::: It's been preached to us for years that "fat makes you fat", so why
::: does a fat fast work so well to break weight plateaus?
::: A 5 to 7 day fat fast will throw you into BDK faster than low
::: carbing and burn off weight at an accelerated rate.
:::
::: They are boring and tedious but they really work.
:::
::: What I don't understand is the metabolic mechanism behind it.
:::
::: Any comments?
::
:: Could just be that you personally cut out a lot of calories by not
:: eating fat and don't eat loads of carbs to compensate, so you have a
:: huge calorie deficit and weight has to go.
::
:: Wouldn't work like that for me if I just stopped eating fat - I'd be
:: quite capable of pigging out on bread and so on and getting fatter.
::
:: Peter

On a fat fast you actually eat mostly fat....

90% minimum.

That is why it sux so much.
900 KC worth of fat is not a hell of a lot of food.

It's also woefully low in nutritional value which is why you don't do it
for more than 5 to 7 days, and take vitamin supplements.

The biggest danger I'd guess is burning off some muscle.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Roger Zoul said:

Peter Allen wrote:
:: OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
::: It's been preached to us for years that "fat makes you fat", so

why

Quoted message said:

::: does a fat fast work so well to break weight plateaus?
::: A 5 to 7 day fat fast will throw you into BDK faster than low
::: carbing and burn off weight at an accelerated rate.
:::
::: They are boring and tedious but they really work.
:::
::: What I don't understand is the metabolic mechanism behind it.
:::
::: Any comments?
::
:: Could just be that you personally cut out a lot of calories by not
:: eating fat and don't eat loads of carbs to compensate, so you have

a

Quoted message said:

:: huge calorie deficit and weight has to go.
::
:: Wouldn't work like that for me if I just stopped eating fat - I'd

be

Quoted message said:

:: quite capable of pigging out on bread and so on and getting

fatter.

Quoted message said:

::
:: Peter

On a fat fast you actually eat mostly fat....

So thats an Atkins style diet then.

A unique form of it, yes. It was in one of his last books.
It can also be found on line. "Atkins fat fast".

It's totally bizarre, but it works.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]>,
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::: OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
::::: It's been preached to us for years that "fat makes you fat", so
::::: why does
::::: a fat fast work so well to break weight plateaus?
::::: A 5 to 7 day fat fast will throw you into BDK faster than low
::::: carbing and burn off weight at an accelerated rate.
:::::
::::: They are boring and tedious but they really work.
:::::
::::: What I don't understand is the metabolic mechanism behind it.
:::::
::::: Any comments?
:::
::: How many calories do you eat on your fat fast?
::
:: The Atkins fat fast recommends only 1,000.
:: I probably do that plus or minus around 100.
::
:: It's pretty low calorie.
::
::: Are you very insulin
::: resistant?
::
:: Yes, VERY!!! :-(
::
:: That is why my doctor put me on Metformin. 2,000 mg. per day.
::

There you have it. A FF will work great for you....restricting carbs so low
while taking in so few calories will enable you to break that stall via the
FF. For those that aren't so IR, just calorie restriction will work.

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]>,
:: "Peter Allen" <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::: OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
:::: It's been preached to us for years that "fat makes you fat", so why
:::: does a fat fast work so well to break weight plateaus?
:::: A 5 to 7 day fat fast will throw you into BDK faster than low
:::: carbing and burn off weight at an accelerated rate.
::::
:::: They are boring and tedious but they really work.
::::
:::: What I don't understand is the metabolic mechanism behind it.
::::
:::: Any comments?
:::
::: Could just be that you personally cut out a lot of calories by not
::: eating fat and don't eat loads of carbs to compensate, so you have
::: a huge calorie deficit and weight has to go.
::
:: What has been interesting to me tho' is that, thru my years of
:: attempting to lose weight, I've gotten totally [censored] in the past
:: and gone on TOTAL fasts. The longest I ever went without eating was 2
:: weeks.
::
:: What has fascinated me is that the fat fasting burns fat FASTER than
:: total fasting.

Well, your body has totally switched over to using fat for fuel, since it is
getting virtually zero carbs. And since you're IR anyway, those carbs would
tend to ruin your fat metabolism.

::
:: It's wierd.
::

Not really. Keep in mind that you're still undereating calories....so you're
not getting something for nothing. You're just priming the pump, so to
speak, and dealing with your inability to efficietly process carbs.

:::
::: Wouldn't work like that for me if I just stopped eating fat - I'd
::: be quite capable of pigging out on bread and so on and getting
::: fatter.
:::
::: Peter
::
:: I would probably not lose weight on 1,000 kc of carbs per day at
:: anywhere near the rate that fat fasting does. I can drop 1/2 lb. per
:: day
:: and I know it's real weight because it stays off when I start back on
:: the Southbeach eating plan.

Yep.

::
:::
:::
:: --
:: Om.
::
:: "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]."
:: -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

Roger Zoul said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]>,
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::: OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
::::: It's been preached to us for years that "fat makes you fat", so
::::: why does
::::: a fat fast work so well to break weight plateaus?
::::: A 5 to 7 day fat fast will throw you into BDK faster than low
::::: carbing and burn off weight at an accelerated rate.
:::::
::::: They are boring and tedious but they really work.
:::::
::::: What I don't understand is the metabolic mechanism behind it.
:::::
::::: Any comments?
:::
::: How many calories do you eat on your fat fast?
::
:: The Atkins fat fast recommends only 1,000.
:: I probably do that plus or minus around 100.
::
:: It's pretty low calorie.
::
::: Are you very insulin
::: resistant?
::
:: Yes, VERY!!! :-(
::
:: That is why my doctor put me on Metformin. 2,000 mg. per day.
::

There you have it. A FF will work great for you....restricting carbs so low
while taking in so few calories will enable you to break that stall via the
FF. For those that aren't so IR, just calorie restriction will work.

Oh yes! I understand that.
I was not recommending a fat fast for everyone, but it is great for
breaking weight when you get stuck and that's all I personally use it
for.

But, back to my question, I understand why low carb works and the basic
metabolic reasons why it does, but I don't really understand how and why
fat fasting works. If it was just a matter of lowering calorie intake,
then going down to zero calories and fasting should work even faster but
remarkably, it does not. At least not in my personal experiences,

I'm trying to understand the biochemistry behind it and was wondering if
anyone knew?
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

Roger Zoul said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]>,
:: "Peter Allen" <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::: OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
:::: It's been preached to us for years that "fat makes you fat", so why
:::: does a fat fast work so well to break weight plateaus?
:::: A 5 to 7 day fat fast will throw you into BDK faster than low
:::: carbing and burn off weight at an accelerated rate.
::::
:::: They are boring and tedious but they really work.
::::
:::: What I don't understand is the metabolic mechanism behind it.
::::
:::: Any comments?
:::
::: Could just be that you personally cut out a lot of calories by not
::: eating fat and don't eat loads of carbs to compensate, so you have
::: a huge calorie deficit and weight has to go.
::
:: What has been interesting to me tho' is that, thru my years of
:: attempting to lose weight, I've gotten totally [censored] in the past
:: and gone on TOTAL fasts. The longest I ever went without eating was 2
:: weeks.
::
:: What has fascinated me is that the fat fasting burns fat FASTER than
:: total fasting.

Well, your body has totally switched over to using fat for fuel, since it is
getting virtually zero carbs. And since you're IR anyway, those carbs would
tend to ruin your fat metabolism.

::
:: It's wierd.
::

Not really. Keep in mind that you're still undereating calories....so you're
not getting something for nothing. You're just priming the pump, so to
speak, and dealing with your inability to efficietly process carbs.

:::
::: Wouldn't work like that for me if I just stopped eating fat - I'd
::: be quite capable of pigging out on bread and so on and getting
::: fatter.
:::
::: Peter
::
:: I would probably not lose weight on 1,000 kc of carbs per day at
:: anywhere near the rate that fat fasting does. I can drop 1/2 lb. per
:: day
:: and I know it's real weight because it stays off when I start back on
:: the Southbeach eating plan.

Yep.

So is eating just fat encourages the body to burn more body fat, but how?
Why does it work better than a total fast?
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]>,
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::: OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
::::: In article <[email hidden]>,
::::: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote:
:::::
:::::: OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
:::::::: It's been preached to us for years that "fat makes you fat", so
:::::::: why does
:::::::: a fat fast work so well to break weight plateaus?
:::::::: A 5 to 7 day fat fast will throw you into BDK faster than low
:::::::: carbing and burn off weight at an accelerated rate.
::::::::
:::::::: They are boring and tedious but they really work.
::::::::
:::::::: What I don't understand is the metabolic mechanism behind it.
::::::::
:::::::: Any comments?
::::::
:::::: How many calories do you eat on your fat fast?
:::::
::::: The Atkins fat fast recommends only 1,000.
::::: I probably do that plus or minus around 100.
:::::
::::: It's pretty low calorie.
:::::
:::::: Are you very insulin
:::::: resistant?
:::::
::::: Yes, VERY!!! :-(
:::::
::::: That is why my doctor put me on Metformin. 2,000 mg. per day.
:::::
:::
::: There you have it. A FF will work great for you....restricting
::: carbs so low while taking in so few calories will enable you to
::: break that stall via the FF. For those that aren't so IR, just
::: calorie restriction will work.
:::
:::
::
:: Oh yes! I understand that.
:: I was not recommending a fat fast for everyone, but it is great for
:: breaking weight when you get stuck and that's all I personally use it
:: for.
::
:: But, back to my question, I understand why low carb works and the
:: basic metabolic reasons why it does, but I don't really understand
:: how and why
:: fat fasting works. If it was just a matter of lowering calorie
:: intake,
:: then going down to zero calories and fasting should work even faster
:: but remarkably, it does not. At least not in my personal experiences,

Well, personally, I think straight fasting works better. But obviously
you're getting no nutrition. A fat fast will provide some. Not many can do
a straight fast for long, but you can survive better on about 1000 kcals per
day, for a certain length of time, as all that fat results in slow digestion
and won't stimulate much appetite...you can also argument that it helps to
avoid a starvation response (ie, slowing down of the metabolism) if you
believe that jazz...

::
:: I'm trying to understand the biochemistry behind it and was
:: wondering if anyone knew?
:: --

I somehow don't think you're find a definitive answer..you may find one that
appeals to your way of thinking, however.

:: Om.
::
:: "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]."
:: -Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]>,
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::: OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
::::: In article <[email hidden]>,
::::: "Peter Allen" <[email hidden]> wrote:
:::::
:::::: OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
::::::: It's been preached to us for years that "fat makes you fat", so
::::::: why does a fat fast work so well to break weight plateaus?
::::::: A 5 to 7 day fat fast will throw you into BDK faster than low
::::::: carbing and burn off weight at an accelerated rate.
:::::::
::::::: They are boring and tedious but they really work.
:::::::
::::::: What I don't understand is the metabolic mechanism behind it.
:::::::
::::::: Any comments?
::::::
:::::: Could just be that you personally cut out a lot of calories by
:::::: not eating fat and don't eat loads of carbs to compensate, so
:::::: you have a huge calorie deficit and weight has to go.
:::::
::::: What has been interesting to me tho' is that, thru my years of
::::: attempting to lose weight, I've gotten totally [censored] in the
::::: past and gone on TOTAL fasts. The longest I ever went without
::::: eating was 2 weeks.
:::::
::::: What has fascinated me is that the fat fasting burns fat FASTER
::::: than total fasting.
:::
::: Well, your body has totally switched over to using fat for fuel,
::: since it is getting virtually zero carbs. And since you're IR
::: anyway, those carbs would tend to ruin your fat metabolism.
:::
:::::
::::: It's wierd.
:::::
:::
::: Not really. Keep in mind that you're still undereating
::: calories....so you're not getting something for nothing. You're
::: just priming the pump, so to speak, and dealing with your inability
::: to efficietly process carbs.
:::
::::::
:::::: Wouldn't work like that for me if I just stopped eating fat - I'd
:::::: be quite capable of pigging out on bread and so on and getting
:::::: fatter.
::::::
:::::: Peter
:::::
::::: I would probably not lose weight on 1,000 kc of carbs per day at
::::: anywhere near the rate that fat fasting does. I can drop 1/2 lb.
::::: per day
::::: and I know it's real weight because it stays off when I start
::::: back on the Southbeach eating plan.
:::
::: Yep.
::
:: So is eating just fat encourages the body to burn more body fat, but
:: how?
:: Why does it work better than a total fast?

I would not say 'eating fat encourages the body to burn more fat'......but
eating mostly fat (like on a FF) means your fuel systems will need to rely
more heavily (almost exclusively) on the fat burning pathways....rather than
carb burning pathways...once you get shifted over, and you undereat, your
body is primed for using fat as fuel. So it attacks bodyfat. This works
really well for the IR, though, because those carbs really can screw you
up....

At least, that's my understanding...go ask over at ASDLC.

Oh...I still don't believe the FF works better than straight fasting...even
though I'm not disputing your experience...I'm just suggesting it's hard to
make conclusive statements from the experiences of one person....

In article <[email hidden]>,

Roger Zoul said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]>,

<snipped>

Quoted message said:

::
:: But, back to my question, I understand why low carb works and the
:: basic metabolic reasons why it does, but I don't really understand
:: how and why
:: fat fasting works. If it was just a matter of lowering calorie
:: intake,
:: then going down to zero calories and fasting should work even faster
:: but remarkably, it does not. At least not in my personal experiences,

Well, personally, I think straight fasting works better.

Personal experience? :-)
How long have you actually ever fasted for?
Just curiosity, not trying to argue.

Quoted message said:

But obviously
you're getting no nutrition. A fat fast will provide some. Not many can do
a straight fast for long, but you can survive better on about 1000 kcals per
day, for a certain length of time, as all that fat results in slow digestion
and won't stimulate much appetite...you can also argument that it helps to
avoid a starvation response (ie, slowing down of the metabolism) if you
believe that jazz...

It also gives you bad breath due to the ketones. <lol>

Quoted message said:

::
:: I'm trying to understand the biochemistry behind it and was
:: wondering if anyone knew?
:: --

I somehow don't think you're find a definitive answer..you may find one that
appeals to your way of thinking, however.

No, that's not what I'm wanting. Not at all!

Protein is converted to glucose and other nutrients in the liver by a
process called Gluconeogenesis. The body has to work harder to convert
protein into glucose for energy rather than convering carb's into energy
which is much easier for the body to do. This is why low carbing appears
to work so very well for so many people.

It lowers serum lipid levels too.

I was curious as to how and why a fat fast works as it's not just the
low calorie level at work here...

And for the record, it does NOT seem to lower serum lipid levels like a
mostly protein diet does. At least not for me, but a single person is
hardly a scientific study. ;-)

I know better than that!

I'm wondering if anyone else has messed with Fat fasting and what their
results have been?
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

Roger Zoul said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]>,

<snipped>

Quoted message said:

::
:: So is eating just fat encourages the body to burn more body fat, but
:: how?
:: Why does it work better than a total fast?

I would not say 'eating fat encourages the body to burn more fat'......but
eating mostly fat (like on a FF) means your fuel systems will need to rely
more heavily (almost exclusively) on the fat burning pathways....rather than
carb burning pathways...once you get shifted over, and you undereat, your
body is primed for using fat as fuel. So it attacks bodyfat. This works
really well for the IR, though, because those carbs really can screw you
up....

That's kinda what I thought, but was curious about the metabolic
mechanisms if you know what I mean, or does anyone really know?
I HAVE tried to do some searches but I might not be asking Google the
right questions.

Quoted message said:

At least, that's my understanding...go ask over at ASDLC.

??? ASDLC ???

Quoted message said:

Oh...I still don't believe the FF works better than straight fasting...even
though I'm not disputing your experience...I'm just suggesting it's hard to
make conclusive statements from the experiences of one person....

I won't argue with that... ;-)

I'm wondering if anyone else has ever fooled with it?

One major difference I noted between the two is that MOST of the weight
lost from a total fast comes back. This did not happen with a fat fast.
I imagine that a good part of that was intestinal weight.

But again, I'm only one person.

I doubt that you'd get many volunteers for starvation studies. <G>

Quoted message said:

--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]>,
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::: OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
::::: In article <[email hidden]>,
:: <snipped>
:::::
::::: But, back to my question, I understand why low carb works and the
::::: basic metabolic reasons why it does, but I don't really understand
::::: how and why
::::: fat fasting works. If it was just a matter of lowering calorie
::::: intake,
::::: then going down to zero calories and fasting should work even
::::: faster but remarkably, it does not. At least not in my personal
::::: experiences,
:::
::: Well, personally, I think straight fasting works better.
::
:: Personal experience? :-)
:: How long have you actually ever fasted for?
:: Just curiosity, not trying to argue.

just 36 hours....and not for the express purpose of losing weight, just for
mental discipline. But the reason I say I think fasting works better is
simply because I have held calories really low (under 1500) for several days
while exercising and I find I lose weight well - assuming I don't end up in
a binge.

::
::: But obviously
::: you're getting no nutrition. A fat fast will provide some. Not
::: many can do a straight fast for long, but you can survive better on
::: about 1000 kcals per day, for a certain length of time, as all that
::: fat results in slow digestion and won't stimulate much
::: appetite...you can also argument that it helps to avoid a
::: starvation response (ie, slowing down of the metabolism) if you
::: believe that jazz...
::
:: It also gives you bad breath due to the ketones. <lol>
::
:::
:::::
::::: I'm trying to understand the biochemistry behind it and was
::::: wondering if anyone knew?
::::: --
:::
::: I somehow don't think you're find a definitive answer..you may find
::: one that appeals to your way of thinking, however.
::
:: No, that's not what I'm wanting. Not at all!
::
:: Protein is converted to glucose and other nutrients in the liver by a
:: process called Gluconeogenesis. The body has to work harder to
:: convert
:: protein into glucose for energy rather than convering carb's into
:: energy
:: which is much easier for the body to do. This is why low carbing
:: appears
:: to work so very well for so many people.

?? Really? where did you learn this?

LCing works for a very simple reason.....it reduces BG swings in people who
have become IR....the cycles of low BG induced appetite disappear...and
people eat less food without feeling overly hungry. It really has little to
do with the body spending more energy converting protein to carbs.

::
:: It lowers serum lipid levels too.
::

For me it did, over time.

:: I was curious as to how and why a fat fast works as it's not just the
:: low calorie level at work here...
::

But it is mainly the low calorie level...because if you don't limit calories
you won't lose...

:: And for the record, it does NOT seem to lower serum lipid levels
:: like a
:: mostly protein diet does. At least not for me, but a single person is
:: hardly a scientific study. ;-)

Are you referring to the FF or LCing? If the latter, you have to give it
time...6 months to a year is typical, regardless of what Atkins said. My
numbers went up, then leveled back down.

::
:: I know better than that!
::
:: I'm wondering if anyone else has messed with Fat fasting and what
:: their results have been?

Some over in ASDLC have....ask there.

:: --
:: Om.
::
:: "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]."
:: -Jack Nicholson