Question for the Guru's

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Curt said:

To the Group Gurus

In Jan 2003, my Dr. determined I was diabetic. My A1C was at 10.9%, and
my triglycerides were over 700. He recommended a low fat diet and
Lipitor. I chose Atkins diet instead. In 90 days, my A1C was at 5.2% and
the Triglycerides were down to 147. He was astounded. 1 year later, I
did blood work again and cholesterol was still under control and my A1C
had gone down to 4.6%. The LDL was slightly elevated at 118 so I thought
I might do something different. Again, he was astounded that it would
stay that way while 'Eating so much fat" in his words. During the 8
months since those tests I have modified my diet some. I use to eat 3-4
eggs for breakfast daily. Since I found Sami's Low carb bread (2 net
carbs/slice) BTW: this was confirmed to be accurate by one of our local
TV stations at the beginning of 'The Low Carb Craze'. See:
http://www.samisbakery.com/pd_detail2.asp?str=5 I've been eating 2
slices of cinnamon toast with Splenda for breakfast daily. Also, I have
been eating the 'low carb' candy a lot. My LDL has gone down to 87 but
my triglycerides have gone up to 168. Since the AMA's new definition of
'High Triglycerides' I am back in the 'High' range again. Personally I
feel that 168 is just fine. I think that the lowering of the limit from
199 to 149 was an effort on the AMA's part to be able to legitimately
prescribe more drugs earlier. With my A1C sitting at 4.9% on the most
recent tests, it's apparently not sugar as it was before.

My question to the group is: What might be causing the triglycerides to
be elevated again.
1. Alcohol Sugars from candy
2. Alcohol (Martini's)
3. The High Grain bread. It's made from Flax seeds, Millet, etx.
4. Something else I have not mentioned

Thanks
Curt

Were you fasting for at least 12 hours for each test?

I don't know whether the reasons for lowering the TGL range is nefarious
or not, but I like mine closer to 100, since TGLs are an independent
predictive risk factor for CVD.

TGLs are a pretty good measure of carb or glucose control. They're
typically elevated in diabetics. You may want to limit bread and
artificial sweeteners and see if your TGLs improve.

Susan

Susan wrote:
:: x-no-archive: yes
::
:: Curt wrote:
::: To the Group Gurus
:::
::: In Jan 2003, my Dr. determined I was diabetic. My A1C was at 10.9%,
::: and my triglycerides were over 700. He recommended a low fat diet
::: and Lipitor. I chose Atkins diet instead. In 90 days, my A1C was at
::: 5.2% and the Triglycerides were down to 147. He was astounded. 1
::: year later, I did blood work again and cholesterol was still under
::: control and my A1C had gone down to 4.6%. The LDL was slightly
::: elevated at 118 so I thought I might do something different. Again,
::: he was astounded that it would stay that way while 'Eating so much
::: fat" in his words. During the 8 months since those tests I have
::: modified my diet some. I use to eat 3-4 eggs for breakfast daily.
::: Since I found Sami's Low carb bread (2 net carbs/slice) BTW: this
::: was confirmed to be accurate by one of our local TV stations at the
::: beginning of 'The Low Carb Craze'. See:
::: http://www.samisbakery.com/pd_detail2.asp?str=5 I've been eating 2
::: slices of cinnamon toast with Splenda for breakfast daily. Also, I
::: have been eating the 'low carb' candy a lot. My LDL has gone down
::: to 87 but my triglycerides have gone up to 168. Since the AMA's new
::: definition of 'High Triglycerides' I am back in the 'High' range
::: again. Personally I feel that 168 is just fine. I think that the
::: lowering of the limit from 199 to 149 was an effort on the AMA's
::: part to be able to legitimately prescribe more drugs earlier. With
::: my A1C sitting at 4.9% on the most recent tests, it's apparently
::: not sugar as it was before.
:::
::: My question to the group is: What might be causing the
::: triglycerides to be elevated again.
::: 1. Alcohol Sugars from candy
::: 2. Alcohol (Martini's)
::: 3. The High Grain bread. It's made from Flax seeds, Millet, etx.
::: 4. Something else I have not mentioned
:::
::: Thanks
::: Curt
::
:: Were you fasting for at least 12 hours for each test?
::
:: I don't know whether the reasons for lowering the TGL range is
:: nefarious or not, but I like mine closer to 100, since TGLs are an
:: independent predictive risk factor for CVD.
::
:: TGLs are a pretty good measure of carb or glucose control. They're
:: typically elevated in diabetics. You may want to limit bread and
:: artificial sweeteners and see if your TGLs improve.

Curious thing, those TGLs....i'm a type 2 using diet and exercise for
control and mine have been at 47 for well over a year and a half now. I
think weight lifting factors in, though I don't eat high grain bread ever
and don't drink much.

x-no-archive: yes

Roger Zoul said:

Curious thing, those TGLs....i'm a type 2 using diet and exercise for
control and mine have been at 47 for well over a year and a half now. I
think weight lifting factors in, though I don't eat high grain bread ever
and don't drink much.

I'm sure your exercise and weightlifting has a lot to do with all your
lipid parameters and good diabetes control.

In diabetics who aren't doing so well, those TGLs creep up. Yours are
the lowest I've ever seen from anyone with an actual pulse. ;-)

Susan

Susan wrote:
:: x-no-archive: yes
::
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::
::
::: Curious thing, those TGLs....i'm a type 2 using diet and exercise
::: for control and mine have been at 47 for well over a year and a
::: half now. I think weight lifting factors in, though I don't eat
::: high grain bread ever and don't drink much.
::
:: I'm sure your exercise and weightlifting has a lot to do with all
:: your lipid parameters and good diabetes control.
::
:: In diabetics who aren't doing so well, those TGLs creep up. Yours
:: are the lowest I've ever seen from anyone with an actual pulse. ;-)

Are you the one who mentioned that there is some issue with people who's
TGLs are less than 50? There was a study about this that someone linked
here....I even called up to see if I could get in...never heard back....

My new GF is an MD...so I'll have to see what she thinks of that...

x-no-archive: yes

Roger Zoul said:

Are you the one who mentioned that there is some issue with people who's
TGLs are less than 50?

Nope, never heard about it. There can't be that many of you, can there?

There was a study about this that someone linked

Quoted message said:

here....I even called up to see if I could get in...never heard back....

My new GF is an MD...so I'll have to see what she thinks of that...

It would be very interesting to see if others who aren't as highly
disciplined as you are re: diet, fitness an exercise achieve similar
numbers.

Susan

Susan said:

x-no-archive: yes

Roger Zoul said:

Are you the one who mentioned that there is some issue with people who's
TGLs are less than 50?

Nope, never heard about it. There can't be that many of you, can there?

More than you may think (unless you're just talking about diabetics). My
TGLs are routinely in the 40s since lowcarbing. I thought that was pretty
normal for lowcarbers. I exercise and stick to lowish carb foods, but
other than that don't do anything special.

Martha (posting from my other account as my usenet access is screwed up on
my primary, marza, account).

x-no-archive: yes

Martha S. Gallagher said:

More than you may think (unless you're just talking about diabetics). My
TGLs are routinely in the 40s since lowcarbing.

WOW. WOWOW.

Quoted message said:

I thought that was
pretty normal for lowcarbers.

Not in my observation, but many of us seem to have been undiagnosed
diabetics or IGT prior to low carbing. Mine dropped no lower than 100,
from about 300, when I began LC.

Quoted message said:

I exercise and stick to lowish carb foods,
but other than that don't do anything special.

That's great!

Susan

Curt wrote:
|| To the Group Gurus
||
|| In Jan 2003, my Dr. determined I was diabetic. My A1C was at 10.9%,
|| and my triglycerides were over 700. He recommended a low fat diet and
|| Lipitor. I chose Atkins diet instead. In 90 days, my A1C was at 5.2%
|| and the Triglycerides were down to 147. He was astounded. 1 year
|| later, I did blood work again and cholesterol was still under
|| control and my A1C had gone down to 4.6%.
<snip>
|| Curt

I found this interesting because my situation was so similar. Dec. 2003 I
was diagnosed T2 with HbA1C of 9.0, and trigl ycerides were litterally off
his measurable chart (650+). THe Doc wanted to immediately prescribe
statins and a low-fat diet. We made a deal that I would see what I co uld
do with diet alone and be retested in 90 days -- after which I agreed to the
statins if not improved. Well -- you guessed it -- My HbA1c was 6.0 and
triglycerides had dropped to 247 (still highish, but dramatic improvement).
Needless to say, no drugs for me, and my HbA1c continues to be between 5 and
6. The doctor continues to be amazed. She said that although there is no
known cure for diabetes, that technically I am no longer diabetic according
to the tests. THis is an interesting idea to me, because I know that if I
up the carbs the BG's will climb again along with the trig's. So what is
low carb... a cure? A temporary cure? Something that masks symptoms of an
underlying condition? Oh well, as long as it keeps my blood sugar under
control without drugs, I really don't cared!

Peter

Marengo <[email hidden]> wrote:

:> So what is low carb... a cure? A temporary
:> cure? Something that masks symptoms of an underlying condition? Oh
:> well, as long as it keeps my blood sugar under control without
:> drugs, I really don't cared!

A means for controling blood sugar and weight....

"Marengo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:xleGe.53882$rb6.49006@lakeread07...

Quoted message said:

So what is low carb... a cure? A temporary cure? Something that masks
symptoms of an underlying condition?

Something that slows down the standard diabetic progression so that
hopefully you don't need insulin until your 150th birthday. Not to mention
keeping your eyesight, kidneys and toes until that auspicious day too.

Nicky.

--
A1c 10.5/5.6/<6 T2 DX 05/2004
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/76/72Kg

Nicky said:

"Marengo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:xleGe.53882$rb6.49006@lakeread07...

Quoted message said:

So what is low carb... a cure? A temporary cure? Something that masks
symptoms of an underlying condition?

Something that slows down the standard diabetic progression so that
hopefully you don't need insulin until your 150th birthday. Not to mention
keeping your eyesight, kidneys and toes until that auspicious day too.

Nicky.

Nicky,

I'm all for keeping the eyesight, kidneys and toes. But your attitude
about insulin is old-fashioned and could be detrimental to your health.

Early rather than late Insulin use might preserve your failing beta
cells as your diabetes progresses. The use of a basal insulin (a low
level long term dose as opposed to the per meal dose), in particular,
can take a lot of stress off the beta cells.

I'm told by people who inject insulin that it hurts less than the blood
test finger stick--in short, hardly at all.

The bad attitudes about insulin probably developed in the past when
doctors mis prescribed huge and dangerous doses and when there were more
painful delivery systems.

"Jenny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nicky said:

"Marengo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:xleGe.53882$rb6.49006@lakeread07...

Quoted message said:

So what is low carb... a cure? A temporary cure? Something that masks
symptoms of an underlying condition?

Something that slows down the standard diabetic progression so that
hopefully you don't need insulin until your 150th birthday. Not to
mention keeping your eyesight, kidneys and toes until that auspicious day
too.

Nicky.

Nicky,

I'm all for keeping the eyesight, kidneys and toes. But your attitude
about insulin is old-fashioned and could be detrimental to your health.

Ah, but it's also shared by my attitude to statins, diuretics, and any other
medication I'll try not to take until I have to - I'm trying to persuade my
quack that I could come off the metformin. I just don't like messing around
with the balances in my body unless it's essential - but when it is, I'll
grin and take the stuff.

Now, if someone were to offer me Byetta, I'd take it like a shot - I would
love to get my hands on something that offers a serious shot at beta cell
regeneration! Unfortunately, I haven't got a hope in hell, even when it's
released into the UK, because my control is far too good. : (

Nicky.

--
A1c 10.5/5.6/<6 T2 DX 05/2004
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/76/72Kg

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Are you the one who mentioned that there is some issue with people who's
TGLs are less than 50?

Quoted message said:

Nope, never heard about it. There can't be that many of you, can there?

Quoted message said:

There was a study about this that someone linked

Hi -- not trying to boast but my triglycerides were 28 on 5/24/05. I
even got an asterisk with a note saying the figure was double-checked
because it was so low. I'm convinced I got it this low by eating a huge
bowl of mixed greens w/ extra garlic ceasar dressing several nights a
week.

I'm VERY interested in seeing the link to the study about any issues
superlow triglycerides may be indicative of. Off to google now and will
post any pertinent results I find.

Okay, I found a discussion about too low triglycerides here:

http://forum.lowcarber.org/archive/index.php/t-51907.html

The upshot from Doreen on that board is that it could be indicative of
liver or thyroid problems. I'm pretty sure my liver has seen better
days, and I was diagnosed with a thyroid nodule in my teens, so I'm
definitely talking to my doctor about this ASAP.