Question for cyclists...

Uncle Bully said:

What is with lanesplitting to the front of traffic at a red light, then
pulling in front of everyone

That's cos you stink and I dont wanna breathe your fumes, troll

Uncle Bully said:

so that when the light turns green everyone has
to wait for you because you are by far the slowest thing on the road?

reckon? I travel to CBD on my commute, quite legally. far faster than my neighbour does

Uncle Bully said:

All the other [censored] I can live with but this one I can't understand. Cyclists
are usually the ones asking to share the road, yet this action would
indicate otherwise.
I'm all for sharing, but sharing means giving way to bigger/faster.

"sharing means giving way to bigger/faster."
It does??? Which [censored]-shun-ary are you referring to troll?

Uncle Bully said:

I can't see how being selfish can work as a strategy when you are the
smallest/slowest/most vulnerable thing on the road ?

Funnily enuff I can't see how being selfish can work as a strategy when you are the Bigger/Just-as-Slow-at-times/just-as-vulnerable-to-prosecution.
You gotta get over your self importance by deluding yourself just cos you can cause congestion, pollute, and feel your 2 tonnes is a weapon

run along trolly-wolly

"dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

HellenWheels said:

Uncle Bully said:

What is with lanesplitting to the front of traffic at a red light, then
pulling in front of everyone so that when the light turns green everyone
has to wait for you because you are by far the slowest thing on the road?

That's not cool. An experienced cyclist should not 'filter up'. If
they're
doing it, there's one or two reasons. They are ignorant, don't know any
better and are not doing it to annoy the drivers. Hopefully an
experienced
cyclist will spot this and educate them that in most cases it's better to
wait where you queued up - don't make drivers pass you twice.

The two times where it might be ok are when it's a difficult hill and you
need to maintain your momentum to get up it. Then, imo, it's ok to filter
forward. However it's also OK to let the traffic go ahead and you stay
stopped at the intersection then follow them through it. Depends on the
intersection.

The other time is if there is an extremely long line of cars. It's quite
natural for a cyclist to filter up at that time. Surely you can see this.
Try not to get annoyed though - it's not meant to upset the drivers.
Cyclists are just trying to get along and handle the roads and traffic
the
best they can for the situation, and given their experience and training.

Oh, forgot. If there is a designated bike lane, then it's perfectly legal
for them to ride to the front. Maybe this is the case in the situation
and
you just didn't realize there was a bike lane?

Quoted message said:

All the other [censored] I can live with but this one I can't understand.
Cyclists are usually the ones asking to share the road, yet this action
would indicate otherwise.

Regardless of what you may think, cyclists in general are -not- trying to
upset, delay or [censored] drivers. They're just trying to handle the
traffic
and the situation as best they can. Sometimes they cut corners, but it's
usually due to inexperience, not being in good enough shape, or due to
the
difficult terrain.

Quoted message said:

I'm all for sharing, but sharing means giving way to bigger/faster. I
can't see how being selfish can work as a strategy when you are the
smallest/slowest/most vulnerable thing on the road ?

So when you have a cookie and you "share it" with your little brother,
because you're bigger and faster, you eat the whole cookie and call it
sharing? Hah. I don't think that's very good 'sharing'.

Pedestrians are even slower and smaller, yet you -must- yield to all
pedestrians, even if they're making a mistake, such as jay-walking. It's
not up to you to punish them by buzzing them, or laying on the horn or by
running them over. Why would you think differently towards cyclists. The
rule is to yield to
the slower traffic. On a multi-use path a cyclist has to yield to all
slower traffic (and horses!). On the street, drivers have to yield to the
slower smaller vehicle, such as farm equipment, slower construction
equipment, of course emergency vehicles, and yes, cyclists. If you think
about it, the delay is minimal. And that cyclist is one less driver in
front of you - and those 10 cars in front of you are -actually- the ones
tying up traffic and creating traffic jams - not ten guys on bikes.

Of course too many drivers think the solution is to threaten, or actually
run over a cyclist. Well, sorry, but even this is changing. A woman in
Australia actually got six years in prison for running over a
motorcyclist.

HTH,

-Wheels.

Mind you I often have cars pass me two or three times.. before eventually
I leave them in my dust.. to beat em to work by ohh 20 minutes or so. THe
things most car drivers dont get are that its fastest substained speed
that matters.. not em hitting 80 for 1.2 secs just before slamming on the
brakes just short of the back of the next line of cars (and sometimes
not 🙂

I am buggered if I am waiting for 3 changes of traffic light just to even
the average up

Once they are trapped by the traffic they dont outweigh us by 2000 kg
or so but only by about 30 (figures adjusted for average tradey) and thats
all fat. In the main... and exceptions must exist.. some of these guys
would have been beaten to death long ago if they couldnt fight but in the
main the average car driver is far likelier to have a heart attack than
hurt you out of the car.

You know that being able to cycle doesn't give you automatic super fight
powers. Also Road Rage doesn't fair fighting. A Cabiie (who are usually
unfit lazy buggers) killed a guy in a road rage incident by jamming a
screwdriver in his ear. I think you should rethink your views on how
invincible you think are simply becuse you ride a bike.

Quoted message said:

THey are only jealous, poor sods.. Cant stand to see anyone have fun in
the traffic. Since they have to be stuck.. hate everyone who isnt.

What about the people who are faster than you, yet still have to wait?

Quoted message said:

I doubt very much if I have held a car up for as much as 20 seconds in 30
years of riding bikes . Stopped em from getting to the next red light as
quick yeah for sure but actually made a difference to their trip time
probably never. Now when I drove post office trucks. Hell me driving a
car would hold themn up more. Mind you you need to be unbalanced to want
to drive a car.

Dave

"Euan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>> "HellenWheels" == HellenWheels <HellenWheels> writes:

HellenWheels> OK, but I believe many cyclists say it is better in
HellenWheels> most cases not to filter up if possible. There are
HellenWheels> risks of peds running between cars, dooring and right
HellenWheels> hooking. Plus, as you see, it can annoy the
HellenWheels> drivers. If it's specifically allowed in your area,
HellenWheels> then yes it must be ok. Sorry.

It really depends on the road.

Often it makes much more sense for all concerned for the cyclist to
lane-split to the front. Where's the sense in stopping 10 cars back
when there's no hope of attaining a speed which will allow cars behind
to get through the lights? That really does delay other road users so
not very clever.

Getting to the front means that more traffic can get through the
lights. That's smart usage of the road and benefits everyone.
Motorists just don't see that though, all they see is someone getting
ahead of them on a bike re-enforcing the lie they've been sold when they
bought the car.

I'm for lanesplitting. But lanesplit and stay left, don't lane split then
take up the whole lane.

"Peter Signorini" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Uncle Bully said:

What is with lanesplitting to the front of traffic at a red light, then
pulling in front of everyone so that when the light turns green everyone
has to wait for you because you are by far the slowest thing on the road?

All the other [censored] I can live with but this one I can't understand.
Cyclists are usually the ones asking to share the road, yet this action
would indicate otherwise.

Perfectly legal manoeuvre for cyclists on Australian roads. Cyclists may
overtake on the left or right side of stationary vehicles. And as for
being the slowest thing, in most inner city suburbs plenty of cyclists
could thoroughly trounce your Falcodore in any peak period door to door
journey.

Quoted message said:

I'm all for sharing, but sharing means giving way to bigger/faster. I
can't see how being selfish can work as a strategy when you are the
smallest/slowest/most vulnerable thing on the road ?

You share the roads by following the roads rules and giving way to other
vehicles as required. Slower vehicles are not rquired to give way to the
faster. As a faster vehicle it is YOUR obligation to overtake safely, by
changing lanes (and completely out of the left lane, none of this
half-laning bull$&*t)

Erm, perhaps you should read the road rules sometime. In everystate the
rules are the same. Keep as far left as practical. For a cyclist this means
you do not own the whole lane.

Uncle Bully said:

Erm, perhaps you should read the road rules sometime. In everystate the
rules are the same. Keep as far left as practical. For a cyclist this means
you do not own the whole lane.

Actually, under the national road rules, if you on a multi-laned road
there is no requirement to keep as far left as practicable. A cyclist
can use any lane and any part of that lane. Given that you have raised
the issue of lane-splitting, I assume you are refering to multi-laned
roads.

--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

Uncle Bully said:

"ritcho" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Uncle Bully said:

What is with lanesplitting to the front of traffic at a red light, then
pulling in front of everyone so that when the light turns green
everyone has
to wait for you because you are by far the slowest thing on the road?

All the other [censored] I can live with but this one I can't understand.
Cyclists
are usually the ones asking to share the road, yet this action would
indicate otherwise.
I'm all for sharing, but sharing means giving way to bigger/faster. I
can't
see how being selfish can work as a strategy when you are the
smallest/slowest/most vulnerable thing on the road ?

You evidently don't commute by car in Sydney at peak hour.

Correct

Quoted message said:

If you are
in a car,

I'm not

Quoted message said:

_you_ are by far the slowest thing on the road. Furthermore,
I'd have thought that taking the most space, the most energy and the
laziest way to move about was _easily_ a more selfish thing to do.

Get out your car, ride in traffic on a bicycle and you might gain some
understanding. If you don't have what it takes, stay in your car and be
patient, don't speed, stop at red lights, use your blinkers and your
eyes when you drive.

I agree. But back to the original question...

Ok then.

It's legal.

Ritch

"Euan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>> "Uncle Bully" == Uncle Bully <[email hidden]>
>>> writes:

Uncle Bully> What is with lanesplitting to the front of traffic at a
Uncle Bully> red light, then pulling in front of everyone so that
Uncle Bully> when the light turns green everyone has to wait for you
Uncle Bully> because you are by far the slowest thing on the road?

So all that traffic passing me when I pull off from the lights is
waiting for me? You and I must have a different definition of waiting.

What you are experiencing is a little deviation to clear the slower
moving vehicle and then slowing to the speed of the CAR in front of
you. That's what's holding you up.

In peak hour traffic I'll beat any car any day without slowing up other
traffic and all legally. Doesn't that just stick in your craw? Me on
my $1500 dollar bicycle beating you in your tens of thousands of dollars
worth of fuel guzzling machinery actually getting somewhere faster than
you.

Um, I don't drive in peak hour. It seems all of the arguments in here are
based around peak hour where bike is usually quicker than a car. What about
the other 18 hours of the day when it's not peak hour.
And for the record, I ride a sportsbike. There is no way in hell you could
keep up with me, rush hour or not.

Quoted message said:

Uncle Bully> All the other [censored] I can live with

What other [censored]? How do cyclists impact on your existence? Cyclists are
not the ones belching poisonous fumes which kill more people than the
road toll every year.

In Australia, that'd be power generation. Brown coal and Diesel pollute far
more than all the personal transport combined.

Quoted message said:

Cyclists aren't the ones filling up the emergency
ward with carnage every day of the year.

You sure about that. Per capita they are about the same as cars.

Quoted message said:

Cyclists aren't the ones
raping the planet for oil just to go about their daily lives.

Again, Electricity can take the blame here, and you're suddenly not the
eco-warrior you thought you were.

Quoted message said:

Uncle Bully> Cyclists are usually the ones asking to share the road,
Uncle Bully> yet this action would indicate otherwise. I'm all for
Uncle Bully> sharing, but sharing means giving way to bigger/faster.

So the biggest / fastest / strongest have the greatest right? That's
not the way it works. Those with the potential to do the most harm have
the greatest care of duty to their fellow road users. When I drive
trucks I look out for cars, when I drive cars I look out for cyclists
and when I ride bikes I look out for jay walking pedestrians.

Law of the jungle. It is how it has always worked.

Quoted message said:

Uncle Bully> I can't see how being selfish can work as a strategy
Uncle Bully> when you are the smallest/slowest/most vulnerable thing
Uncle Bully> on the road ?

Selfish huh? Next time you complain about congestion, realise that it's
the people taking up the most space that are contributing the most to
congestion. A car needs six times its length to operate. For most cars
that's 12 meters. A bike needs about an eighth of that.

Don't worry. I take that up with Aus.cars quite regularly.

Quoted message said:

You know what I think? I think you're jealous of us. I really do. If
you're [censored] being part of congestion, get on a bike and experience
freedom. If you're too scared to do it on your own, find your local BUG
and ask for help. Driving's very over-rated. I know, I used to drive
every day. Now I ride every day, I'm happy, fit, can eat like a king
and still maintain a respectable waistline. The tax free 10k each year
from not owning a car works wonders too :-)

I ride everyday too. My bike is fast though.

Quoted message said:

When's the last time you heard a cyclist complaining about traffic?

Er last night. In this very NG.

"Bleve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Uncle Bully said:

What is with lanesplitting to the front of traffic at a red light, then
pulling in front of everyone so that when the light turns green everyone
has
to wait for you because you are by far the slowest thing on the road?

What is with assuming everyone who rides a bike is the same?

I didn't.

Quoted message said:

Is everyone who drives a car a drunk and/or stoned, SMS texting
hooligan with no
indicators and a complete disregard for the road laws?

I was hoping to find a representive of cyclists that did this particular
action to get their opinion.
So far, all I've got is "Bikes are faster than cars, and I'm just jealous
because I'm stuck in my car" (even though I never drive in rush hour).

Peter McCallum said:

Uncle Bully said:

What is with lanesplitting to the front of traffic at a red light, then
pulling in front of everyone so that when the light turns green everyone has
to wait for you because you are by far the slowest thing on the road?

All the other [censored] I can live with but this one I can't understand. Cyclists
are usually the ones asking to share the road, yet this action would
indicate otherwise.
I'm all for sharing, but sharing means giving way to bigger/faster. I can't
see how being selfish can work as a strategy when you are the
smallest/slowest/most vulnerable thing on the road ?

I agree that courtesy is the thing that's lacking in the road system. I
tend to just join the queue most of the time if I'm going to hold up
traffic, but I make my presence in the queue obvious by sitting in the
middle of the lane. If someone wants to join in behind me then they do
so with the full knowledge that I'm taking the lane.

If I'm at the front of a queue in the left lane and a left turn arrow
turns green I move to the right of the lane to allow cars behind me to
turn the corner. I can only recall one occassion in twenty five years
when a motorist has actually acknowledged my courtesy. I was bowled over
when it happened.

What I can never understand is why motorists don't plant their fists on
the horn when they come up behind a front end loader doing 40-50km/h.

Brave front end loader that one.

Mind you apparently the Oz army has the worlds fastest bulldozers.. go
figure?

If

Quoted message said:

a cyclist is going slower than the traffic stream, they are for some
reason expected to shift, but a big piece of machinery is legitimate in
the minds of drivers.

Uncle Bully said:

"dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

HellenWheels said:

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 20:54:22 +1000, "Uncle Bully"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

>What is with lanesplitting to the front of traffic at a red light, then
>pulling in front of everyone so that when the light turns green everyone
>has to wait for you because you are by far the slowest thing on the road?

That's not cool. An experienced cyclist should not 'filter up'. If
they're
doing it, there's one or two reasons. They are ignorant, don't know any
better and are not doing it to annoy the drivers. Hopefully an
experienced
cyclist will spot this and educate them that in most cases it's better to
wait where you queued up - don't make drivers pass you twice.

The two times where it might be ok are when it's a difficult hill and you
need to maintain your momentum to get up it. Then, imo, it's ok to filter
forward. However it's also OK to let the traffic go ahead and you stay
stopped at the intersection then follow them through it. Depends on the
intersection.

The other time is if there is an extremely long line of cars. It's quite
natural for a cyclist to filter up at that time. Surely you can see this.
Try not to get annoyed though - it's not meant to upset the drivers.
Cyclists are just trying to get along and handle the roads and traffic
the
best they can for the situation, and given their experience and training.

Oh, forgot. If there is a designated bike lane, then it's perfectly legal
for them to ride to the front. Maybe this is the case in the situation
and
you just didn't realize there was a bike lane?

>All the other [censored] I can live with but this one I can't understand.
>Cyclists are usually the ones asking to share the road, yet this action
>would indicate otherwise.

Regardless of what you may think, cyclists in general are -not- trying to
upset, delay or [censored] drivers. They're just trying to handle the
traffic
and the situation as best they can. Sometimes they cut corners, but it's
usually due to inexperience, not being in good enough shape, or due to
the
difficult terrain.

>I'm all for sharing, but sharing means giving way to bigger/faster. I
>can't see how being selfish can work as a strategy when you are the
>smallest/slowest/most vulnerable thing on the road ?

So when you have a cookie and you "share it" with your little brother,
because you're bigger and faster, you eat the whole cookie and call it
sharing? Hah. I don't think that's very good 'sharing'.

Pedestrians are even slower and smaller, yet you -must- yield to all
pedestrians, even if they're making a mistake, such as jay-walking. It's
not up to you to punish them by buzzing them, or laying on the horn or by
running them over. Why would you think differently towards cyclists. The
rule is to yield to
the slower traffic. On a multi-use path a cyclist has to yield to all
slower traffic (and horses!). On the street, drivers have to yield to the
slower smaller vehicle, such as farm equipment, slower construction
equipment, of course emergency vehicles, and yes, cyclists. If you think
about it, the delay is minimal. And that cyclist is one less driver in
front of you - and those 10 cars in front of you are -actually- the ones
tying up traffic and creating traffic jams - not ten guys on bikes.

Of course too many drivers think the solution is to threaten, or actually
run over a cyclist. Well, sorry, but even this is changing. A woman in
Australia actually got six years in prison for running over a
motorcyclist.

HTH,

-Wheels.

Mind you I often have cars pass me two or three times.. before eventually
I leave them in my dust.. to beat em to work by ohh 20 minutes or so. THe
things most car drivers dont get are that its fastest substained speed
that matters.. not em hitting 80 for 1.2 secs just before slamming on the
brakes just short of the back of the next line of cars (and sometimes
not 🙂

I am buggered if I am waiting for 3 changes of traffic light just to even
the average up

Once they are trapped by the traffic they dont outweigh us by 2000 kg
or so but only by about 30 (figures adjusted for average tradey) and thats
all fat. In the main... and exceptions must exist.. some of these guys
would have been beaten to death long ago if they couldnt fight but in the
main the average car driver is far likelier to have a heart attack than
hurt you out of the car.

You know that being able to cycle doesn't give you automatic super fight
powers. Also Road Rage doesn't fair fighting. A Cabiie (who are usually
unfit lazy buggers) killed a guy in a road rage incident by jamming a
screwdriver in his ear. I think you should rethink your views on how
invincible you think are simply becuse you ride a bike.

Nah.. but I am ok.. And I aint gunna have a heart attack

I rather thought I had covered that adequatly above.. but apparently
not. I do think that some of the road rage stuff is I have a big engine
to compensate for my inadequacy syndrome. The odds are a lot more even
out of the car. Sort of obvious.

And I was a cabbie for a lot of years.. won most of my fights there too
🙂 ALthough some of them were with other cabbies who aint a fit lot.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

THey are only jealous, poor sods.. Cant stand to see anyone have fun in
the traffic. Since they have to be stuck.. hate everyone who isnt.

What about the people who are faster than you, yet still have to wait?

Who?

Lance can get past.. 🙂

Other than that there are only the motorcyclists.. and I am one of them
too. 🙂

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I doubt very much if I have held a car up for as much as 20 seconds in 30
years of riding bikes . Stopped em from getting to the next red light as
quick yeah for sure but actually made a difference to their trip time
probably never. Now when I drove post office trucks. Hell me driving a
car would hold themn up more. Mind you you need to be unbalanced to want
to drive a car.

Dave

Uncle Bully said:

"Peter Signorini" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Uncle Bully said:

What is with lanesplitting to the front of traffic at a red light, then
pulling in front of everyone so that when the light turns green everyone
has to wait for you because you are by far the slowest thing on the road?

All the other [censored] I can live with but this one I can't understand.
Cyclists are usually the ones asking to share the road, yet this action
would indicate otherwise.

Perfectly legal manoeuvre for cyclists on Australian roads. Cyclists may
overtake on the left or right side of stationary vehicles. And as for
being the slowest thing, in most inner city suburbs plenty of cyclists
could thoroughly trounce your Falcodore in any peak period door to door
journey.

Quoted message said:

I'm all for sharing, but sharing means giving way to bigger/faster. I
can't see how being selfish can work as a strategy when you are the
smallest/slowest/most vulnerable thing on the road ?

You share the roads by following the roads rules and giving way to other
vehicles as required. Slower vehicles are not rquired to give way to the
faster. As a faster vehicle it is YOUR obligation to overtake safely, by
changing lanes (and completely out of the left lane, none of this
half-laning bull$&*t)

Erm, perhaps you should read the road rules sometime. In everystate the
rules are the same. Keep as far left as practical. For a cyclist this means
you do not own the whole lane.

It means if you need too then you do.

Quoted message said:

Uncle Bully said:

"Euan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>>>"Uncle Bully" == Uncle Bully <[email hidden]>
>>>>writes:

Uncle Bully> What is with lanesplitting to the front of traffic at a
Uncle Bully> red light, then pulling in front of everyone so that
Uncle Bully> when the light turns green everyone has to wait for you
Uncle Bully> because you are by far the slowest thing on the road?

So all that traffic passing me when I pull off from the lights is
waiting for me? You and I must have a different definition of waiting.

What you are experiencing is a little deviation to clear the slower
moving vehicle and then slowing to the speed of the CAR in front of
you. That's what's holding you up.

In peak hour traffic I'll beat any car any day without slowing up other
traffic and all legally. Doesn't that just stick in your craw? Me on
my $1500 dollar bicycle beating you in your tens of thousands of dollars
worth of fuel guzzling machinery actually getting somewhere faster than
you.

Um, I don't drive in peak hour. It seems all of the arguments in here are
based around peak hour where bike is usually quicker than a car. What about
the other 18 hours of the day when it's not peak hour.
And for the record, I ride a sportsbike. There is no way in hell you could
keep up with me, rush hour or not.

Really? You think? Must be old age catching up with me.

Very rare to find a motorcyclist who aint either a cyclist or in utter
sympathy with cyclists. But then again there is always one...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Uncle Bully> All the other [censored] I can live with

What other [censored]? How do cyclists impact on your existence? Cyclists are
not the ones belching poisonous fumes which kill more people than the
road toll every year.

In Australia, that'd be power generation. Brown coal and Diesel pollute far
more than all the personal transport combined.

Quoted message said:

Cyclists aren't the ones filling up the emergency
ward with carnage every day of the year.

You sure about that. Per capita they are about the same as cars.

Quoted message said:

Cyclists aren't the ones
raping the planet for oil just to go about their daily lives.

Again, Electricity can take the blame here, and you're suddenly not the
eco-warrior you thought you were.

Quoted message said:

Uncle Bully> Cyclists are usually the ones asking to share the road,
Uncle Bully> yet this action would indicate otherwise. I'm all for
Uncle Bully> sharing, but sharing means giving way to bigger/faster.

So the biggest / fastest / strongest have the greatest right? That's
not the way it works. Those with the potential to do the most harm have
the greatest care of duty to their fellow road users. When I drive
trucks I look out for cars, when I drive cars I look out for cyclists
and when I ride bikes I look out for jay walking pedestrians.

Law of the jungle. It is how it has always worked.

Quoted message said:

Uncle Bully> I can't see how being selfish can work as a strategy
Uncle Bully> when you are the smallest/slowest/most vulnerable thing
Uncle Bully> on the road ?

Selfish huh? Next time you complain about congestion, realise that it's
the people taking up the most space that are contributing the most to
congestion. A car needs six times its length to operate. For most cars
that's 12 meters. A bike needs about an eighth of that.

Don't worry. I take that up with Aus.cars quite regularly.

Quoted message said:

You know what I think? I think you're jealous of us. I really do. If
you're [censored] being part of congestion, get on a bike and experience
freedom. If you're too scared to do it on your own, find your local BUG
and ask for help. Driving's very over-rated. I know, I used to drive
every day. Now I ride every day, I'm happy, fit, can eat like a king
and still maintain a respectable waistline. The tax free 10k each year
from not owning a car works wonders too :-)

I ride everyday too. My bike is fast though.

Quoted message said:

When's the last time you heard a cyclist complaining about traffic?

Er last night. In this very NG.

True.. cars do get in the way. 🙂

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> "Uncle Bully" == Uncle Bully <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It really depends on the road.

Often it makes much more sense for all concerned for the cyclist
to lane-split to the front. Where's the sense in stopping 10
cars back when there's no hope of attaining a speed which will
allow cars behind to get through the lights? That really does
delay other road users so not very clever.

Getting to the front means that more traffic can get through the
lights. That's smart usage of the road and benefits everyone.
Motorists just don't see that though, all they see is someone
getting ahead of them on a bike re-enforcing the lie they've been
sold when they bought the car.

Uncle Bully> I'm for lanesplitting. But lanesplit and stay left,
Uncle Bully> don't lane split then take up the whole lane.

I don't. So now that we've got that sorted you can just run along now,
can't you?
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\<,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)

Uncle Bully said:

You know that being able to cycle doesn't give you automatic super fight
powers. Also Road Rage doesn't fair fighting. A Cabiie (who are usually
unfit lazy buggers) killed a guy in a road rage incident by jamming a
screwdriver in his ear. I think you should rethink your views on how
invincible you think are simply becuse you ride a bike.

Dude, this is the second time you used veiled threats like this in the
newsgroup posting implying that if we were all sitting around in a
restaurant discussing this that you'd want to win the argument by physical
intimidation.

All that tells us is that you don't have sufficient debate or discussion
skills. Do you really want to be perceived in that light?

Nobody here wants to harm you, or delay you, or even slightly inconvenience
you. These are all very nice, very friendly people - many cyclists are.
Just as many practice restraint as an art form.

Regardless of any pugilistic skills I may have I would -never- participate
in any road rage or physical mayhem, because it would detract from my sole
purpose on the roads, which is to enjoy riding my bike.

If you are a MC rider, then realize we are all brothers, of the two-wheeled
fraternity. I love MC riders, and rode one myself for many years. I find
them to be great people.

Can we just have a calm discussion? Can you concede a point if you find it
to be fair? A little give-and-take goes a long way to gaining
understanding.

Best,

-Wheels

HellenWheels said:

Uncle Bully said:

You know that being able to cycle doesn't give you automatic super fight
powers. Also Road Rage doesn't fair fighting. A Cabiie (who are usually
unfit lazy buggers) killed a guy in a road rage incident by jamming a
screwdriver in his ear. I think you should rethink your views on how
invincible you think are simply becuse you ride a bike.

Dude, this is the second time you used veiled threats like this in the
newsgroup posting implying that if we were all sitting around in a
restaurant discussing this that you'd want to win the argument by physical
intimidation.

All that tells us is that you don't have sufficient debate or discussion
skills. Do you really want to be perceived in that light?

Nobody here wants to harm you, or delay you, or even slightly inconvenience
you. These are all very nice, very friendly people - many cyclists are.
Just as many practice restraint as an art form.

Regardless of any pugilistic skills I may have I would -never- participate
in any road rage or physical mayhem, because it would detract from my sole
purpose on the roads, which is to enjoy riding my bike.

If you are a MC rider, then realize we are all brothers, of the two-wheeled
fraternity. I love MC riders, and rode one myself for many years. I find
them to be great people.

Can we just have a calm discussion? Can you concede a point if you find it
to be fair? A little give-and-take goes a long way to gaining
understanding.

Best,

-Wheels

Calmness.. Calm blue sea.. calm blue sea.. Hang on.. in order to sail
one needs wind 🙂

Hellon wheels .. great nick.. THats not Helen Franklin is it?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> "Uncle Bully" == Uncle Bully <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In peak hour traffic I'll beat any car any day without slowing up
other traffic and all legally. Doesn't that just stick in your
craw? Me on my $1500 dollar bicycle beating you in your tens of
thousands of dollars worth of fuel guzzling machinery actually
getting somewhere faster than you.

Uncle Bully> Um, I don't drive in peak hour. It seems all of the
Uncle Bully> arguments in here are based around peak hour where bike
Uncle Bully> is usually quicker than a car. What about the other 18
Uncle Bully> hours of the day when it's not peak hour. And for the
Uncle Bully> record, I ride a sportsbike. There is no way in hell
Uncle Bully> you could keep up with me, rush hour or not.

I find it's rare that I need to lane split outside of peak hour. I
don't know where you're from but here in Melbourne peak hour accounts
for more like six to eight hours of the day, not the four suggested by you.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Uncle Bully> All the other [censored] I can live with

What other [censored]? How do cyclists impact on your existence?
Cyclists are not the ones belching poisonous fumes which kill
more people than the road toll every year.

Uncle Bully> In Australia, that'd be power generation. Brown coal
Uncle Bully> and Diesel pollute far more than all the personal
Uncle Bully> transport combined.

Agreed, but motorists contribute significantly as well. By cycling I am
not contributing to emissions at all. Motorists can not make that
claim.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Cyclists aren't the ones filling up the emergency ward with
carnage every day of the year.

Uncle Bully> You sure about that. Per capita they are about the same
Uncle Bully> as cars.

As you say, per capita. There are a lot more motorists on the road.
There is statistical evidence that as the rate of on road cycling
increases accidents fall for both motorists and cyclists. In other
words the more cyclists there are on the road the safer it is for
everyone.

More motorists turning to cycling means less people in the emergency
ward.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Cyclists aren't the ones raping the planet for oil just to go
about their daily lives.

Uncle Bully> Again, Electricity can take the blame here, and you're
Uncle Bully> suddenly not the eco-warrior you thought you were.

But I minimize my impact far more by using a bicycle for transport than
I do if I use motorised transport.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So the biggest / fastest / strongest have the greatest right?
That's not the way it works. Those with the potential to do the
most harm have the greatest care of duty to their fellow road
users. When I drive trucks I look out for cars, when I drive
cars I look out for cyclists and when I ride bikes I look out for
jay walking pedestrians.

Uncle Bully> Law of the jungle. It is how it has always worked.

I don't operate under those laws. I look out for my fellow man and I do
just fine. You might want to try it some time.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Selfish huh? Next time you complain about congestion, realise
that it's the people taking up the most space that are
contributing the most to congestion. A car needs six times its
length to operate. For most cars that's 12 meters. A bike needs
about an eighth of that.

Uncle Bully> Don't worry. I take that up with Aus.cars quite
Uncle Bully> regularly.

I'm curious, with the higher absolute speeds attainable by motorcycles,
wouldn't they need more room than bicycles? Can a motorcycle out brake a
car?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You know what I think? I think you're jealous of us. I really
do. If you're [censored] being part of congestion, get on a bike
and experience freedom. If you're too scared to do it on your
own, find your local BUG and ask for help. Driving's very
over-rated. I know, I used to drive every day. Now I ride every
day, I'm happy, fit, can eat like a king and still maintain a
respectable waistline. The tax free 10k each year from not
owning a car works wonders too :-)

Uncle Bully> I ride everyday too. My bike is fast though.

Fast isn't everything.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When's the last time you heard a cyclist complaining about
traffic?

Uncle Bully> Er last night. In this very NG.

Point. Cars can get in the way.
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\<,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 11:15:53 +1000, dave <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Can we just have a calm discussion? Can you concede a point if you find it
to be fair? A little give-and-take goes a long way to gaining
understanding.

Best,

-Wheels

Calmness.. Calm blue sea.. calm blue sea.. Hang on.. in order to sail
one needs wind 🙂

Hellon wheels .. great nick.. THats not Helen Franklin is it?

Actually, I'm built just about like 'her'. Amateur bodybuilder in the 80s.
Still have the 19" calves and 18" arms, but dayum, it makes climbing
harder, lol. I'm in the process of training down a bit. I'm a solid 225,
and I'd like to get under 200 since now I'm dedicated to riding.

-Wheels
(ps, I'm not a vice cop, nor do I play one on TV) ;-D

This is so ridiculous.

If bigger/faster cars rule the road, then....

Should all sedan drivers get out of the way of 4WD's??

Or should commodore drivers get out of the way of Porsche's??

Should all cars get out of the way of motorcycles (let's face it, they
are the fastest)??

Just because you drive a car, doesn't make you more fscking important.
Just because I ride a bike, doesn't mean I can be a selfish road user
either. Obey the road rules. And maybe use a bit of courtesy and let
people past if you KNOW you'll be holding up a tonne of people later.

And if you are driving a car, then accept that OCCASIONALLY you will be
held up for a brief period of time - either by a cyclist, bus, but more
likely other cars, and get over it.

If law of the jungle ruled, then bus passengers, peds, motorcycles &
cyclists should rule the earth. They are using the roads in the most
efficient, unselfish manner. And car drivers would be banished for
their selfish decision to use two-tonnes of metal plus fuel to power
only one or two people (generally) around the place.

But its NOT law of the jungle. So accept that you are lucky to be able
to afford and drive a car, and stop being a selfish, arrogant prsck
about it.

Abby

"dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Uncle Bully said:

"Euan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

>>>>>"Uncle Bully" == Uncle Bully <[email hidden]>
>>>>>writes:

Uncle Bully> What is with lanesplitting to the front of traffic at a
Uncle Bully> red light, then pulling in front of everyone so that
Uncle Bully> when the light turns green everyone has to wait for you
Uncle Bully> because you are by far the slowest thing on the road?

So all that traffic passing me when I pull off from the lights is
waiting for me? You and I must have a different definition of waiting.

What you are experiencing is a little deviation to clear the slower
moving vehicle and then slowing to the speed of the CAR in front of
you. That's what's holding you up.

In peak hour traffic I'll beat any car any day without slowing up other
traffic and all legally. Doesn't that just stick in your craw? Me on
my $1500 dollar bicycle beating you in your tens of thousands of dollars
worth of fuel guzzling machinery actually getting somewhere faster than
you.

Um, I don't drive in peak hour. It seems all of the arguments in here are
based around peak hour where bike is usually quicker than a car. What
about the other 18 hours of the day when it's not peak hour.
And for the record, I ride a sportsbike. There is no way in hell you
could keep up with me, rush hour or not.

Really? You think? Must be old age catching up with me.

Very rare to find a motorcyclist who aint either a cyclist or in utter
sympathy with cyclists. But then again there is always one...

I am in sympathy, there should be more bike lanes. What I don't get is why
this particular practice happens.
I thought someone in here could shed some light, but so far it been fairly
negative.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Uncle Bully> All the other [censored] I can live with

What other [censored]? How do cyclists impact on your existence? Cyclists are
not the ones belching poisonous fumes which kill more people than the
road toll every year.

In Australia, that'd be power generation. Brown coal and Diesel pollute
far more than all the personal transport combined.

Quoted message said:

Cyclists aren't the ones filling up the emergency
ward with carnage every day of the year.

You sure about that. Per capita they are about the same as cars.

Quoted message said:

Cyclists aren't the ones
raping the planet for oil just to go about their daily lives.

Again, Electricity can take the blame here, and you're suddenly not the
eco-warrior you thought you were.

Quoted message said:

Uncle Bully> Cyclists are usually the ones asking to share the road,
Uncle Bully> yet this action would indicate otherwise. I'm all for
Uncle Bully> sharing, but sharing means giving way to bigger/faster.

So the biggest / fastest / strongest have the greatest right? That's
not the way it works. Those with the potential to do the most harm have
the greatest care of duty to their fellow road users. When I drive
trucks I look out for cars, when I drive cars I look out for cyclists
and when I ride bikes I look out for jay walking pedestrians.

Law of the jungle. It is how it has always worked.

Quoted message said:

Uncle Bully> I can't see how being selfish can work as a strategy
Uncle Bully> when you are the smallest/slowest/most vulnerable thing
Uncle Bully> on the road ?

Selfish huh? Next time you complain about congestion, realise that it's
the people taking up the most space that are contributing the most to
congestion. A car needs six times its length to operate. For most cars
that's 12 meters. A bike needs about an eighth of that.

Don't worry. I take that up with Aus.cars quite regularly.

Quoted message said:

You know what I think? I think you're jealous of us. I really do. If
you're [censored] being part of congestion, get on a bike and experience
freedom. If you're too scared to do it on your own, find your local BUG
and ask for help. Driving's very over-rated. I know, I used to drive
every day. Now I ride every day, I'm happy, fit, can eat like a king
and still maintain a respectable waistline. The tax free 10k each year
from not owning a car works wonders too :-)

I ride everyday too. My bike is fast though.

Quoted message said:

When's the last time you heard a cyclist complaining about traffic?

Er last night. In this very NG.

True.. cars do get in the way. 🙂

Quoted message said:

"Euan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>> "Uncle Bully" == Uncle Bully <[email hidden]>
>>> writes:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In peak hour traffic I'll beat any car any day without slowing up
other traffic and all legally. Doesn't that just stick in your
craw? Me on my $1500 dollar bicycle beating you in your tens of
thousands of dollars worth of fuel guzzling machinery actually
getting somewhere faster than you.

Uncle Bully> Um, I don't drive in peak hour. It seems all of the
Uncle Bully> arguments in here are based around peak hour where bike
Uncle Bully> is usually quicker than a car. What about the other 18
Uncle Bully> hours of the day when it's not peak hour. And for the
Uncle Bully> record, I ride a sportsbike. There is no way in hell
Uncle Bully> you could keep up with me, rush hour or not.

I find it's rare that I need to lane split outside of peak hour. I
don't know where you're from but here in Melbourne peak hour accounts
for more like six to eight hours of the day, not the four suggested by
you.

24-18=6

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Uncle Bully> All the other [censored] I can live with

What other [censored]? How do cyclists impact on your existence?
Cyclists are not the ones belching poisonous fumes which kill
more people than the road toll every year.

Uncle Bully> In Australia, that'd be power generation. Brown coal
Uncle Bully> and Diesel pollute far more than all the personal
Uncle Bully> transport combined.

Agreed, but motorists contribute significantly as well. By cycling I am
not contributing to emissions at all. Motorists can not make that
claim.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Cyclists aren't the ones filling up the emergency ward with
carnage every day of the year.

Uncle Bully> You sure about that. Per capita they are about the same
Uncle Bully> as cars.

As you say, per capita. There are a lot more motorists on the road.
There is statistical evidence that as the rate of on road cycling
increases accidents fall for both motorists and cyclists. In other
words the more cyclists there are on the road the safer it is for
everyone.

More motorists turning to cycling means less people in the emergency
ward.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Cyclists aren't the ones raping the planet for oil just to go
about their daily lives.

Uncle Bully> Again, Electricity can take the blame here, and you're
Uncle Bully> suddenly not the eco-warrior you thought you were.

But I minimize my impact far more by using a bicycle for transport than
I do if I use motorised transport.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So the biggest / fastest / strongest have the greatest right?
That's not the way it works. Those with the potential to do the
most harm have the greatest care of duty to their fellow road
users. When I drive trucks I look out for cars, when I drive
cars I look out for cyclists and when I ride bikes I look out for
jay walking pedestrians.

Uncle Bully> Law of the jungle. It is how it has always worked.

I don't operate under those laws. I look out for my fellow man and I do
just fine. You might want to try it some time.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Selfish huh? Next time you complain about congestion, realise
that it's the people taking up the most space that are
contributing the most to congestion. A car needs six times its
length to operate. For most cars that's 12 meters. A bike needs
about an eighth of that.

Uncle Bully> Don't worry. I take that up with Aus.cars quite
Uncle Bully> regularly.

I'm curious, with the higher absolute speeds attainable by motorcycles,
wouldn't they need more room than bicycles? Can a motorcycle out brake a
car?

Actually cars can reach higher top speeds, the motorcycle's advantage is
acceleration and size.
If you include time in the dimensions (ie spacetime), a motorcycle takes up
the least space of anything.
And no, a motorbike cannot outbrake any reasonably capable car.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You know what I think? I think you're jealous of us. I really
do. If you're [censored] being part of congestion, get on a bike
and experience freedom. If you're too scared to do it on your
own, find your local BUG and ask for help. Driving's very
over-rated. I know, I used to drive every day. Now I ride every
day, I'm happy, fit, can eat like a king and still maintain a
respectable waistline. The tax free 10k each year from not
owning a car works wonders too :-)

Uncle Bully> I ride everyday too. My bike is fast though.

Fast isn't everything.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When's the last time you heard a cyclist complaining about
traffic?

Uncle Bully> Er last night. In this very NG.

Point. Cars can get in the way.