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Question about tube/tire weight

Started by Dave Mennenoh · · Last activity · 18 posts · 448 views

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Mountain Bikes
Published
25 May 2004
Last activity
31 May 2004
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Dave Mennenoh
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  1. Does anyone have any references regarding how tube and/or tire weight
    affects riding? I race the WORS mountain bike series, in Wisconsin, and
    recently put a pair of Hitchinson Green tubes on my bike. They are thick,
    heavy, rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty resistant to pinch flats.
    Since flatting in a race really bites, I thought the greens might be nice.
    But now I'm wondering how the ride of these tubes vs using light butyl tubes
    compares. Does it really matter? Are there any articles on this? I am using
    pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...

    thanks.

    --
    Dave
    http://www.blurredistinction.com/director
    Team Macromedia Volunteer
    http://www.macromedia.com/go/team

  2. I found this if anyone's interested:
    http://makeashorterlink.com/?O3D225568

    Also - I made a typo - I did mean Hutchinson - not Hitchinson...

    --
    Dave
    http://www.blurredistinction.com/director
    Team Macromedia Volunteer
    http://www.macromedia.com/go/team

  3. "Dave Mennenoh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Does anyone have any references regarding how tube and/or tire weight
    affects riding? I race the WORS mountain bike series, in Wisconsin, and
    recently put a pair of Hitchinson Green tubes on my bike. They are thick,
    heavy, rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty resistant to pinch flats.
    Since flatting in a race really bites, I thought the greens might be nice.
    But now I'm wondering how the ride of these tubes vs using light butyl


    tubes

    Quoted message said:

    compares. Does it really matter? Are there any articles on this? I am


    using

    Quoted message said:

    pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...

    thanks.


    In order to finish first, first you must finish.....or something corny like
    that.

  4. "Dave Mennenoh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Does anyone have any references regarding how tube and/or tire weight
    affects riding? I race the WORS mountain bike series, in Wisconsin, and
    recently put a pair of Hitchinson Green tubes on my bike. They are thick,
    heavy, rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty resistant to pinch flats.
    Since flatting in a race really bites, I thought the greens might be nice.
    But now I'm wondering how the ride of these tubes vs using light butyl


    tubes

    Quoted message said:

    compares. Does it really matter? Are there any articles on this? I am


    using

    Quoted message said:

    pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...

    thanks.

    --

    How much do you weigh? If you are close to or over 200lbs, I'd suggest you
    try some practice laps with the panaracer FR's ( 2.4 inch Light Downhill
    tires). They won't pinch flat like x-country tires do, they will out-corner
    the Hutchinsons dramatically, and you get better bite on technical climbs.
    The con side of this is that they weigh 800 grams each, but if you are close
    to 200 pounds, you should have enough extra power over the 150 pound
    riders, for the small increase in rotational mass to be pretty much a
    non-issue. Coming into turns faster, being able to slow down faster, being
    able to climb loose ground on hills better, all of this is on the pro side.
    Plus, pinch flats should never happen, even running 34 psi.

    Dan V

    P.S.
    I have read nothing on this, but I have been experimenting :-)

  5. "Dan Volker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "Dave Mennenoh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Does anyone have any references regarding how tube and/or tire weight
    affects riding? I race the WORS mountain bike series, in Wisconsin, and
    recently put a pair of Hitchinson Green tubes on my bike. They are thick,
    heavy, rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty resistant to pinch flats.
    Since flatting in a race really bites, I thought the greens might be nice.
    But now I'm wondering how the ride of these tubes vs using light butyl


    tubes

    Quoted message said:

    compares. Does it really matter? Are there any articles on this? I am


    using

    Quoted message said:

    pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...

    thanks.

    --

    How much do you weigh? If you are close to or over 200lbs, I'd suggest you
    try some practice laps with the panaracer FR's ( 2.4 inch Light Downhill
    tires). They won't pinch flat like x-country tires do, they will out-corner
    the Hutchinsons dramatically, and you get better bite on technical climbs.


    <snip more lameness>

    Why would anyone listen to your claptrap? You are an admitted rookie
    and obviously still don't know jack. You don't know where the OP
    lives and you are suggesting tires to him? BTW, you CAN pinch flat
    any tire, contrary to your erroneous claim.

    JD

  6. "JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Dan Volker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Dave Mennenoh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Does anyone have any references regarding how tube and/or tire weight
    affects riding? I race the WORS mountain bike series, in Wisconsin,


    and

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    recently put a pair of Hitchinson Green tubes on my bike. They are


    thick,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    heavy, rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty resistant to pinch


    flats.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Since flatting in a race really bites, I thought the greens might be


    nice.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    But now I'm wondering how the ride of these tubes vs using light butyl


    tubes

    Quoted message said:

    compares. Does it really matter? Are there any articles on this? I am


    using

    Quoted message said:

    pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...

    thanks.

    --

    How much do you weigh? If you are close to or over 200lbs, I'd suggest


    you

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    try some practice laps with the panaracer FR's ( 2.4 inch Light Downhill
    tires). They won't pinch flat like x-country tires do, they will


    out-corner

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the Hutchinsons dramatically, and you get better bite on technical


    climbs.

    Quoted message said:

    <snip more lameness>

    Why would anyone listen to your claptrap? You are an admitted rookie
    and obviously still don't know jack. You don't know where the OP
    lives and you are suggesting tires to him? BTW, you CAN pinch flat
    any tire, contrary to your erroneous claim.

    JD

    I admitted that I would be unlikely to beat you up a big climb at altitudes
    over 6000 feet. That's hardly the same as me saying I am a rookie.

    I started mountain biking on a fully rigid Raleigh back even before
    hyperglide existed---this could be nearly 20 years ago. I entered a Norba
    National in Georgia in the early 80's with a Diamond back ( rigid, with
    hyperglide), and rode in the equivalent of today's expert class. Came in
    somewhere in the middle, this being a ski slope course with a big vertical
    for me---at that time, I had won lots of flat or rolling hills type road
    races, and mountain biking looked like it would be alot more fun. I was
    riding around Buffalo alot back then, in the Ski slope areas and ski-doo
    trails. I did plenty of trips to NC, but ended up doing more and more
    business in Florida, so I had to move there permanently.
    I took time off from all riding about 5 years ago ( and got out of shape),
    when I was developing my own software business, and this was doing well
    enough a year ago for me to begin trying to get back to where I once was,
    in my riding.
    I went from 180 pounds ripped when I was winning races, to having business
    prevent me from riding and ballooning to 237 pounds in January...I am down
    to 212 pounds now. I am riding typically 5 days per week, and hit the
    gym 3 days per week. My bodyfat level is down from over 24% to around 17%,
    and its going down steadily. I could win at sport class races now on south
    Florida courses, but I prefer to wait until I can compete at Expert level.
    Most of the guys I ride with, race as Expert category riders, whenever they
    race.
    I don't really care too much about racing any more, but will probably do one
    or two races on cool courses before the end of the year. I would be more apt
    to pick a race, or ride, in the Smoky Mountains of NC, or Tenn, than I
    would around Florida--I would not do as well in these bigger mountains
    because of the bigger hills, but the rides would be alot more fun for me.

    Since the discussions I had with you and other SS'ers some time ago, I have
    ridden with several people on SS bikes. I can see how on some trails these
    bikes could be an advantage, and on others they would not...Moreover, its
    the person riding the bike that will make the biggest difference, on the
    vast majority of trails. I can see you still want blood from me, and with
    any luck, you'll have your chance when I visit my friends in Vegas this
    fall, and ride Bootleg Canyon as well as Cottonwood, and other local trails.

    Dan V

  7. [email hidden] (JD) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "Dan Volker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "Dave Mennenoh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Does anyone have any references regarding how tube and/or tire weight
    affects riding? I race the WORS mountain bike series, in Wisconsin, and
    recently put a pair of Hitchinson Green tubes on my bike. They are thick,
    heavy, rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty resistant to pinch flats.
    Since flatting in a race really bites, I thought the greens might be nice.
    But now I'm wondering how the ride of these tubes vs using light butyl


    tubes

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    compares. Does it really matter? Are there any articles on this? I am


    using

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...

    thanks.

    --

    How much do you weigh? If you are close to or over 200lbs, I'd suggest you
    try some practice laps with the panaracer FR's ( 2.4 inch Light Downhill
    tires). They won't pinch flat like x-country tires do, they will out-corner
    the Hutchinsons dramatically, and you get better bite on technical climbs.


    <snip more lameness>

    Why would anyone

    <snip ... rabid, foaming at the mouth, venom soked .... well ... snip>

    Quoted message said:

    BTW, you CAN pinch flat
    any tire, contrary to your erroneous claim.

    Tubeless/Stan's No tubes

    R

  8. "Dave Mennenoh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Does anyone have any references regarding how tube and/or tire weight
    affects riding? I race the WORS mountain bike series, in Wisconsin, and
    recently put a pair of Hitchinson Green tubes on my bike. They are thick,
    heavy, rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty resistant to pinch flats.
    Since flatting in a race really bites, I thought the greens might be nice.
    But now I'm wondering how the ride of these tubes vs using light butyl tubes
    compares. Does it really matter? Are there any articles on this? I am using
    pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...

    thanks.

    If all you are doing is racing, consider the Stan's no tubes set up.
    You can pretty much get it to work with any reasonable tire and rim
    set up.

    With the consideration that the terrain is different in this part of
    the country (SSW)... the "hot" set up around here is Sun 0
    degree/UFO's or DT XR4.1 with stan's and EpicWolf 1.95/2.1 or Air
    Light Pythons.

    A 395gr rim and a 480gr tire with no tubes ....

    R

  9. [email hidden] (Reco Diver) wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (JD) wrote in message


    <snip>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    BTW, you CAN pinch flat
    any tire, contrary to your erroneous claim.

    Tubeless/Stan's No tubes

    Interesting. I pinch-flatted one of my new-fangled tubeless on my 3rd ride
    on 'em. I went back to separate tubes & tires.

    -S.S.-

  10. Dan Volker <[email hidden]> wrote:

    (snip sad racerboy bio)

    Quoted message said:


    Since the discussions I had with you and other SS'ers some time ago,
    I have ridden with several people on SS bikes. I can see how on some
    trails these bikes could be an advantage, and on others they would
    not...Moreover, its the person riding the bike that will make the
    biggest difference, on the vast majority of trails. I can see you
    still want blood from me, and with any luck, you'll have your chance
    when I visit my friends in Vegas this fall, and ride Bootleg Canyon
    as well as Cottonwood, and other local trails.


    Dan, buddy I'm getting to love your presence in this newsgroup. Really.
    One question though: Do you find the hook in your mouth distracting while
    you type?

    Tom

  11. "tcmedara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:Nmytc.190$eP.138@lakeread01...

    Quoted message said:

    Dan Volker <[email hidden]> wrote:

    (snip sad racerboy bio)

    Quoted message said:


    Since the discussions I had with you and other SS'ers some time ago,
    I have ridden with several people on SS bikes. I can see how on some
    trails these bikes could be an advantage, and on others they would
    not...Moreover, its the person riding the bike that will make the
    biggest difference, on the vast majority of trails. I can see you
    still want blood from me, and with any luck, you'll have your chance
    when I visit my friends in Vegas this fall, and ride Bootleg Canyon
    as well as Cottonwood, and other local trails.


    Dan, buddy I'm getting to love your presence in this newsgroup. Really.
    One question though: Do you find the hook in your mouth distracting while
    you type?

    Tom


    Tom,
    I realize that if JD is going to post "at" me, its going to be bait. Sooner
    or later someone here will ride with me, and it will be pretty clear I'm not
    a novice. I wanted to clear that up now, so that later on he can't claim all
    his remarks were because he thought I was a newbie.
    And I will be doing some rides out West this fall....I don't know that JD
    will show for any of these like Bootleg Canyon--it being a pretty long drive
    for him from what I've heard. But that's fine, I know people "like" him
    here---good at trials type technical, though primarily a trail rider, but
    not in to racing. We have guys here that come to a 4 foot high tree which
    fell across the trail, and they love to do their wheelies up onto the log,
    hop along sideways for a bit, then jump off the other side. Me, I'd rather
    carry my bike over the log--its faster, easier, and "beating" the tree is
    not a big perk to me. I'm guessing this must be how JD is, with riding big
    boulder patches, etc.
    I also don't care too much if a guy who lives at altitude can beat me up
    long climbs over 6000 feet high, considering that I live at sea level.
    In any event, I'll be out riding in enough places throughout the year, with
    enough people, so that what I say here will be backed up by the experiences
    of others. JD can carp all he wants--its not going to mean anything to me.

    Dan V

  12. SkaredShtles <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (Reco Diver) wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (JD) wrote in message


    <snip>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    BTW, you CAN pinch flat
    any tire, contrary to your erroneous claim.

    Tubeless/Stan's No tubes

    Interesting. I pinch-flatted one of my new-fangled tubeless on my 3rd ride
    on 'em. I went back to separate tubes & tires.

    -S.S.-

    How did you pinch flat something that wasn't there? A pinch flat by
    definition is a hole in an inner tube caused by getting the tube
    "pinched" between the rim and a road/trail hazard.

    R

  13. Dan Volker said:

    "tcmedara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:Nmytc.190$eP.138@lakeread01...

    Quoted message said:

    Dan Volker <[email hidden]> wrote:

    (snip sad racerboy bio)

    Quoted message said:


    Since the discussions I had with you and other SS'ers some time ago,
    I have ridden with several people on SS bikes. I can see how on some
    trails these bikes could be an advantage, and on others they would
    not...Moreover, its the person riding the bike that will make the
    biggest difference, on the vast majority of trails. I can see you
    still want blood from me, and with any luck, you'll have your chance
    when I visit my friends in Vegas this fall, and ride Bootleg Canyon
    as well as Cottonwood, and other local trails.


    Dan, buddy I'm getting to love your presence in this newsgroup.
    Really. One question though: Do you find the hook in your mouth
    distracting while you type?

    Tom


    Tom,
    I realize that if JD is going to post "at" me, its going to be bait.
    Sooner or later someone here will ride with me, and it will be pretty
    clear I'm not a novice.

    Novice or not, you have an amazing tendency to spout off without considering
    what it is you're saying.

    Quoted message said:

    I wanted to clear that up now, so that later
    on he can't claim all his remarks were because he thought I was a
    newbie.

    Why you seem so intent on proving your credentials to a bunch of usenet
    knuckleheads speaks volumes.

    Quoted message said:

    And I will be doing some rides out West this fall....I don't know
    that JD will show for any of these like Bootleg Canyon--it being a
    pretty long drive for him from what I've heard. But that's fine, I
    know people "like" him here---good at trials type technical, though
    primarily a trail rider, but not in to racing.

    See above -- you've never ridden with him nor seen him ride. My advice is
    to just STFU about your opinion of his riding skill until then, eh?

    Quoted message said:

    We have guys here
    that come to a 4 foot high tree which fell across the trail, and they
    love to do their wheelies up onto the log, hop along sideways for a
    bit, then jump off the other side. Me, I'd rather carry my bike over
    the log--its faster, easier, and "beating" the tree is not a big perk
    to me. I'm guessing this must be how JD is, with riding big boulder
    patches, etc.

    Key word.... guessing. Stop making conclusions based on your unknowledgable
    guesses and you won't catch so much [censored]. 'Course your posts won't be near
    as much fun either

    Quoted message said:

    I also don't care too much if a guy who lives at altitude can beat me
    up long climbs over 6000 feet high, considering that I live at sea
    level.

    You have no idea what he can and can't beat you at, since you have never
    ridden with him right? Why go down that road, dumbass?

    Quoted message said:

    In any event, I'll be out riding in enough places throughout the
    year, with enough people, so that what I say here will be backed up
    by the experiences of others. JD can carp all he wants--its not
    going to mean anything to me.


    It obviously is something to you because everytime JD pokes you in your
    racerboy wannabe chest you respond with assertion and bombast, usually about
    the "expert class" riders you keep up with. It's just laughable.

    ......there, another hook just dangling for ya.

    Tom

  14. "Dan Volker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Dan Volker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Dave Mennenoh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > Does anyone have any references regarding how tube and/or tire weight
    > affects riding? I race the WORS mountain bike series, in Wisconsin,


    and

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > recently put a pair of Hitchinson Green tubes on my bike. They are


    thick,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > heavy, rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty resistant to pinch


    flats.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Since flatting in a race really bites, I thought the greens might be


    nice.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > But now I'm wondering how the ride of these tubes vs using light butyl


    tubes

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > compares. Does it really matter? Are there any articles on this? I am


    using

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...
    >
    > thanks.
    >
    >
    > --

    How much do you weigh? If you are close to or over 200lbs, I'd suggest


    you

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    try some practice laps with the panaracer FR's ( 2.4 inch Light Downhill
    tires). They won't pinch flat like x-country tires do, they will


    out-corner

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the Hutchinsons dramatically, and you get better bite on technical


    climbs.

    Quoted message said:

    <snip more lameness>

    Why would anyone listen to your claptrap? You are an admitted rookie
    and obviously still don't know jack. You don't know where the OP
    lives and you are suggesting tires to him? BTW, you CAN pinch flat
    any tire, contrary to your erroneous claim.

    JD

    I admitted that I would be unlikely to beat you up a big climb at altitudes
    over 6000 feet. That's hardly the same as me saying I am a rookie.

    You don't know jack, hence "rookie". Yes, it's that obvious.

    Quoted message said:

    I can see you still want blood from me, and with
    any luck, you'll have your chance when I visit my friends in Vegas this
    fall, and ride Bootleg Canyon as well as Cottonwood, and other local trails.

    I've seen enough of your "blood" in your continued flailings and
    psuedo-expert "opinions". Keep it up, flatlander.

    JD

  15. [email hidden] (Reco Diver) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (JD) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    BTW, you CAN pinch flat
    any tire, contrary to your erroneous claim.

    Tubeless/Stan's No tubes

    Don't kid yourself. I've seen blown sidewalls on a Hutchinson
    tubeless that was the victim of a classic pinch flat.

    JD

  16. [email hidden] (JD) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (Reco Diver) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (JD) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    BTW, you CAN pinch flat
    any tire, contrary to your erroneous claim.

    Tubeless/Stan's No tubes

    Don't kid yourself. I've seen blown sidewalls on a Hutchinson
    tubeless that was the victim of a classic pinch flat.

    JD

    Don't get me wrong tubeless systems have just as many modes for flats
    as tubed systems, but pinch flats by definition can't happen.

    From old Cow-head:
    http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8b.3.html

    From Fuzzy be fuzzy no more ... or is he?:
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_p.html

    Similarly, you can't get chainsuck on a one-speed (sans tensioner). Of
    course I once pulled the wheel forward on a climb, had the chain come
    off the ring, catch on one of the arms, and wedge itself between the
    crank and chainstay. The result was the same as chainsuck, but the
    mode was different.

    R

  17. On 29 May 2004 07:48:57 -0700, [email hidden] (Reco Diver)
    scribbled:

    Quoted message said:

    Similarly, you can't get chainsuck on a one-speed (sans tensioner). Of
    course I once pulled the wheel forward on a climb, had the chain come
    off the ring, catch on one of the arms, and wedge itself between the
    crank and chainstay. The result was the same as chainsuck, but the
    mode was different.

    R

    A classic pinch-flat it might not be, but I'm sure that with the right
    circumstances you could easily chisel a hole through the tire wall by
    slamming it against the rim.

    -Slash
    --
    "Ebert Victorious"
    -The Onion

  18. [email hidden] (Reco Diver) wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    as tubed systems, but pinch flats by definition can't happen.

    I guess if you want to mentally masturbate regarding the "definition" of
    pinch flat, be my guest. All I know is that I got a *pinch flat* with a
    tubeless tire.

    -S.S.-

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