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Question about tube/tire weight

Started by Dave Mennenoh · · Last activity · 19 posts · 1,398 views

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Mountain Bikes
Published
25 May 2004
Last activity
1 June 2004
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Dave Mennenoh
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  1. Does anyone have any references regarding how tube and/or
    tire weight affects riding? I race the WORS mountain bike
    series, in Wisconsin, and recently put a pair of Hitchinson
    Green tubes on my bike. They are thick, heavy, rubber tubes
    but supposed to be pretty resistant to pinch flats. Since
    flatting in a race really bites, I thought the greens might
    be nice. But now I'm wondering how the ride of these tubes
    vs using light butyl tubes compares. Does it really matter?
    Are there any articles on this? I am using pretty light
    tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...

    thanks.

    --
    Dave blurredistinction.comdirector Team
    Macromedia Volunteer macromedia.comteam

  2. I found this if anyone's interested:
    makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com

    Also - I made a typo - I did mean Hutchinson - not
    Hitchinson...

    --
    Dave blurredistinction.comdirector Team
    Macromedia Volunteer macromedia.comteam

  3. "Dave Mennenoh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Does anyone have any references regarding how tube and/or
    tire weight affects riding? I race the WORS mountain bike
    series, in Wisconsin, and recently put a pair of
    Hitchinson Green tubes on my bike. They are thick, heavy,
    rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty resistant to pinch
    flats. Since flatting in a race really bites, I thought
    the greens might be nice. But now I'm wondering how the
    ride of these tubes vs using light butyl


    tubes

    Quoted message said:

    compares. Does it really matter? Are there any articles on
    this? I am


    using

    Quoted message said:

    pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...

    thanks.


    In order to finish first, first you must finish.....or
    something corny like that.

  4. "Dave Mennenoh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Does anyone have any references regarding how tube and/or
    tire weight affects riding? I race the WORS mountain bike
    series, in Wisconsin, and recently put a pair of
    Hitchinson Green tubes on my bike. They are thick, heavy,
    rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty resistant to pinch
    flats. Since flatting in a race really bites, I thought
    the greens might be nice. But now I'm wondering how the
    ride of these tubes vs using light butyl


    tubes

    Quoted message said:

    compares. Does it really matter? Are there any articles on
    this? I am


    using

    Quoted message said:

    pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...

    thanks.

    --

    How much do you weigh? If you are close to or over 200lbs,
    I'd suggest you try some practice laps with the panaracer
    FR's ( 2.4 inch Light Downhill tires). They won't pinch flat
    like x-country tires do, they will out-corner the
    Hutchinsons dramatically, and you get better bite on
    technical climbs. The con side of this is that they weigh
    800 grams each, but if you are close to 200 pounds, you
    should have enough extra power over the 150 pound riders,
    for the small increase in rotational mass to be pretty much
    a non-issue. Coming into turns faster, being able to slow
    down faster, being able to climb loose ground on hills
    better, all of this is on the pro side. Plus, pinch flats
    should never happen, even running 34 psi.

    Dan V

    P.S.I have read nothing on this, but I have been
    experimenting :-)

  5. "Dan Volker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "Dave Mennenoh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
    kc.rr.com...

    Quoted message said:

    Does anyone have any references regarding how tube
    and/or tire weight affects riding? I race the WORS
    mountain bike series, in Wisconsin, and recently put a
    pair of Hitchinson Green tubes on my bike. They are
    thick, heavy, rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty
    resistant to pinch flats. Since flatting in a race
    really bites, I thought the greens might be nice. But
    now I'm wondering how the ride of these tubes vs using
    light butyl


    tubes

    Quoted message said:

    compares. Does it really matter? Are there any articles
    on this? I am


    using

    Quoted message said:

    pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...

    thanks.

    --

    How much do you weigh? If you are close to or over 200lbs,
    I'd suggest you try some practice laps with the panaracer
    FR's ( 2.4 inch Light Downhill tires). They won't pinch
    flat like x-country tires do, they will out-corner the
    Hutchinsons dramatically, and you get better bite on
    technical climbs.


    <snip more lameness>

    Why would anyone listen to your claptrap? You are an
    admitted rookie and obviously still don't know jack. You
    don't know where the OP lives and you are suggesting tires
    to him? BTW, you CAN pinch flat any tire, contrary to your
    erroneous claim.

    JD

  6. "JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Dan Volker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Dave Mennenoh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Does anyone have any references regarding how tube
    and/or tire weight affects riding? I race the WORS
    mountain bike series, in Wisconsin,


    and

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    recently put a pair of Hitchinson Green tubes on my
    bike. They are


    thick,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    heavy, rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty
    resistant to pinch


    flats.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Since flatting in a race really bites, I thought the
    greens might be


    nice.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    But now I'm wondering how the ride of these tubes vs
    using light butyl


    tubes

    Quoted message said:

    compares. Does it really matter? Are there any
    articles on this? I am


    using

    Quoted message said:

    pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...

    thanks.

    --

    How much do you weigh? If you are close to or over
    200lbs, I'd suggest


    you

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    try some practice laps with the panaracer FR's ( 2.4
    inch Light Downhill tires). They won't pinch flat like
    x-country tires do, they will


    out-corner

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the Hutchinsons dramatically, and you get better bite on
    technical


    climbs.

    Quoted message said:

    <snip more lameness>

    Why would anyone listen to your claptrap? You are an
    admitted rookie and obviously still don't know jack. You
    don't know where the OP lives and you are suggesting tires
    to him? BTW, you CAN pinch flat any tire, contrary to your
    erroneous claim.

    JD

    I admitted that I would be unlikely to beat you up a big
    climb at altitudes over 6000 feet. That's hardly the same as
    me saying I am a rookie.

    I started mountain biking on a fully rigid Raleigh back even
    before hyperglide existed---this could be nearly 20 years
    ago. I entered a Norba National in Georgia in the early 80's
    with a Diamond back ( rigid, with hyperglide), and rode in
    the equivalent of today's expert class. Came in somewhere in
    the middle, this being a ski slope course with a big
    vertical for me---at that time, I had won lots of flat or
    rolling hills type road races, and mountain biking looked
    like it would be alot more fun. I was riding around Buffalo
    alot back then, in the Ski slope areas and ski-doo trails. I
    did plenty of trips to NC, but ended up doing more and more
    business in Florida, so I had to move there permanently. I
    took time off from all riding about 5 years ago ( and got
    out of shape), when I was developing my own software
    business, and this was doing well enough a year ago for me
    to begin trying to get back to where I once was, in my
    riding. I went from 180 pounds ripped when I was winning
    races, to having business prevent me from riding and
    ballooning to 237 pounds in January...I am down to 212
    pounds now. I am riding typically 5 days per week, and hit
    the gym 3 days per week. My bodyfat level is down from over
    24% to around 17%, and its going down steadily. I could win
    at sport class races now on south Florida courses, but I
    prefer to wait until I can compete at Expert level. Most of
    the guys I ride with, race as Expert category riders,
    whenever they race. I don't really care too much about
    racing any more, but will probably do one or two races on
    cool courses before the end of the year. I would be more apt
    to pick a race, or ride, in the Smoky Mountains of NC, or
    Tenn, than I would around Florida--I would not do as well in
    these bigger mountains because of the bigger hills, but the
    rides would be alot more fun for me.

    Since the discussions I had with you and other SS'ers some
    time ago, I have ridden with several people on SS bikes. I
    can see how on some trails these bikes could be an
    advantage, and on others they would not...Moreover, its
    the person riding the bike that will make the biggest
    difference, on the vast majority of trails. I can see you
    still want blood from me, and with any luck, you'll have
    your chance when I visit my friends in Vegas this fall,
    and ride Bootleg Canyon as well as Cottonwood, and other
    local trails.

    Dan V

  7. [email hidden] (JD) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "Dan Volker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "Dave Mennenoh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Does anyone have any references regarding how tube
    and/or tire weight affects riding? I race the WORS
    mountain bike series, in Wisconsin, and recently put a
    pair of Hitchinson Green tubes on my bike. They are
    thick, heavy, rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty
    resistant to pinch flats. Since flatting in a race
    really bites, I thought the greens might be nice. But
    now I'm wondering how the ride of these tubes vs using
    light butyl


    tubes

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    compares. Does it really matter? Are there any
    articles on this? I am


    using

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...

    thanks.

    --

    How much do you weigh? If you are close to or over
    200lbs, I'd suggest you try some practice laps with the
    panaracer FR's ( 2.4 inch Light Downhill tires). They
    won't pinch flat like x-country tires do, they will out-
    corner the Hutchinsons dramatically, and you get better
    bite on technical climbs.


    <snip more lameness>

    Why would anyone

    <snip ... rabid, foaming at the mouth, venom soked ....
    well ... snip>

    Quoted message said:

    BTW, you CAN pinch flat any tire, contrary to your
    erroneous claim.

    Tubeless/Stan's No tubes

    R

  8. "Dave Mennenoh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Does anyone have any references regarding how tube and/or
    tire weight affects riding? I race the WORS mountain bike
    series, in Wisconsin, and recently put a pair of
    Hitchinson Green tubes on my bike. They are thick, heavy,
    rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty resistant to pinch
    flats. Since flatting in a race really bites, I thought
    the greens might be nice. But now I'm wondering how the
    ride of these tubes vs using light butyl tubes compares.
    Does it really matter? Are there any articles on this? I
    am using pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're
    1.85's...

    thanks.

    If all you are doing is racing, consider the Stan's no tubes
    set up. You can pretty much get it to work with any
    reasonable tire and rim set up.

    With the consideration that the terrain is different in this
    part of the country (SSW)... the "hot" set up around here is
    Sun 0 degree/UFO's or DT XR4.1 with stan's and EpicWolf
    1.95/2.1 or Air Light Pythons.

    A 395gr rim and a 480gr tire with no tubes ....

    R

  9. [email hidden] (Reco Diver) wrote in
    :"]news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (JD) wrote in message


    <snip>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    BTW, you CAN pinch flat any tire, contrary to your
    erroneous claim.

    Tubeless/Stan's No tubes

    Interesting. I pinch-flatted one of my new-fangled
    tubeless on my 3rd ride on 'em. I went back to separate
    tubes & tires.

    -S.S.-

  10. Dan Volker <[email hidden]> wrote:

    (snip sad racerboy bio)

    Quoted message said:


    Since the discussions I had with you and other SS'ers some
    time ago, I have ridden with several people on SS bikes. I
    can see how on some trails these bikes could be an
    advantage, and on others they would not...Moreover, its
    the person riding the bike that will make the biggest
    difference, on the vast majority of trails. I can see you
    still want blood from me, and with any luck, you'll have
    your chance when I visit my friends in Vegas this fall,
    and ride Bootleg Canyon as well as Cottonwood, and other
    local trails.


    Dan, buddy I'm getting to love your presence in this
    newsgroup. Really. One question though: Do you find the hook
    in your mouth distracting while you type?

    Tom

  11. "tcmedara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:Nmytc.190$eP.138@lakeread01...

    Quoted message said:

    Dan Volker <[email hidden]> wrote:

    (snip sad racerboy bio)

    Quoted message said:


    Since the discussions I had with you and other SS'ers
    some time ago, I have ridden with several people on SS
    bikes. I can see how on some trails these bikes could be
    an advantage, and on others they would not...Moreover,
    its the person riding the bike that will make the
    biggest difference, on the vast majority of trails. I
    can see you still want blood from me, and with any luck,
    you'll have your chance when I visit my friends in Vegas
    this fall, and ride Bootleg Canyon as well as
    Cottonwood, and other local trails.


    Dan, buddy I'm getting to love your presence in this
    newsgroup. Really. One question though: Do you find the
    hook in your mouth distracting while you type?

    Tom


    Tom, I realize that if JD is going to post "at" me, its
    going to be bait. Sooner or later someone here will ride
    with me, and it will be pretty clear I'm not a novice. I
    wanted to clear that up now, so that later on he can't claim
    all his remarks were because he thought I was a newbie. And
    I will be doing some rides out West this fall....I don't
    know that JD will show for any of these like Bootleg Canyon--
    it being a pretty long drive for him from what I've heard.
    But that's fine, I know people "like" him here---good at
    trials type technical, though primarily a trail rider, but
    not in to racing. We have guys here that come to a 4 foot
    high tree which fell across the trail, and they love to do
    their wheelies up onto the log, hop along sideways for a
    bit, then jump off the other side. Me, I'd rather carry my
    bike over the log--its faster, easier, and "beating" the
    tree is not a big perk to me. I'm guessing this must be how
    JD is, with riding big boulder patches, etc. I also don't
    care too much if a guy who lives at altitude can beat me up
    long climbs over 6000 feet high, considering that I live at
    sea level. In any event, I'll be out riding in enough places
    throughout the year, with enough people, so that what I say
    here will be backed up by the experiences of others. JD can
    carp all he wants--its not going to mean anything to me.

    Dan V

  12. SkaredShtles <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (Reco Diver) wrote in
    :"]news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (JD) wrote in message


    <snip>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    BTW, you CAN pinch flat any tire, contrary to your
    erroneous claim.

    Tubeless/Stan's No tubes

    Interesting. I pinch-flatted one of my new-fangled
    tubeless on my 3rd ride on 'em. I went back to separate
    tubes & tires.

    -S.S.-

    How did you pinch flat something that wasn't there? A
    pinch flat by definition is a hole in an inner tube caused
    by getting the tube "pinched" between the rim and a
    road/trail hazard.

    R

  13. Dan Volker said:

    "tcmedara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:Nmytc.190$eP.138@lakeread01...

    Quoted message said:

    Dan Volker <[email hidden]> wrote:

    (snip sad racerboy bio)

    Quoted message said:


    Since the discussions I had with you and other SS'ers
    some time ago, I have ridden with several people on SS
    bikes. I can see how on some trails these bikes could be
    an advantage, and on others they would not...Moreover,
    its the person riding the bike that will make the
    biggest difference, on the vast majority of trails. I
    can see you still want blood from me, and with any luck,
    you'll have your chance when I visit my friends in Vegas
    this fall, and ride Bootleg Canyon as well as
    Cottonwood, and other local trails.


    Dan, buddy I'm getting to love your presence in this
    newsgroup. Really. One question though: Do you find the
    hook in your mouth distracting while you type?

    Tom


    Tom, I realize that if JD is going to post "at" me, its
    going to be bait. Sooner or later someone here will ride
    with me, and it will be pretty clear I'm not a novice.

    Novice or not, you have an amazing tendency to spout off
    without considering what it is you're saying.

    Quoted message said:

    I wanted to clear that up now, so that later on he
    can't claim all his remarks were because he thought I
    was a newbie.

    Why you seem so intent on proving your credentials to a
    bunch of usenet knuckleheads speaks volumes.

    Quoted message said:

    And I will be doing some rides out West this fall....I
    don't know that JD will show for any of these like Bootleg
    Canyon--it being a pretty long drive for him from what
    I've heard. But that's fine, I know people "like" him here---
    good at trials type technical, though primarily a trail
    rider, but not in to racing.

    See above -- you've never ridden with him nor seen him ride.
    My advice is to just STFU about your opinion of his riding
    skill until then, eh?

    Quoted message said:

    We have guys here that come to a 4 foot high tree which
    fell across the trail, and they love to do their wheelies
    up onto the log, hop along sideways for a bit, then jump
    off the other side. Me, I'd rather carry my bike over the
    log--its faster, easier, and "beating" the tree is not a
    big perk to me. I'm guessing this must be how JD is, with
    riding big boulder patches, etc.

    Key word.... guessing. Stop making conclusions based on your
    unknowledgable guesses and you won't catch so much [censored].
    'Course your posts won't be near as much fun either

    Quoted message said:

    I also don't care too much if a guy who lives at altitude
    can beat me up long climbs over 6000 feet high,
    considering that I live at sea level.

    You have no idea what he can and can't beat you at, since
    you have never ridden with him right? Why go down that
    road, dumbass?

    Quoted message said:

    In any event, I'll be out riding in enough places
    throughout the year, with enough people, so that what I
    say here will be backed up by the experiences of
    others. JD can carp all he wants--its not going to mean
    anything to me.


    It obviously is something to you because everytime JD pokes
    you in your racerboy wannabe chest you respond with
    assertion and bombast, usually about the "expert class"
    riders you keep up with. It's just laughable.

    .....there, another hook just dangling for ya.

    Tom

  14. "Dan Volker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Dan Volker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Dave Mennenoh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...
    > Does anyone have any references regarding how tube
    > and/or tire weight affects riding? I race the WORS
    > mountain bike series, in Wisconsin,


    and

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > recently put a pair of Hitchinson Green tubes on my
    > bike. They are


    thick,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > heavy, rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty
    > resistant to pinch


    flats.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Since flatting in a race really bites, I thought the
    > greens might be


    nice.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > But now I'm wondering how the ride of these tubes vs
    > using light butyl


    tubes

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > compares. Does it really matter? Are there any
    > articles on this? I am


    using

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're
    > 1.85's...
    >
    > thanks.
    >
    >
    > --

    How much do you weigh? If you are close to or over
    200lbs, I'd suggest


    you

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    try some practice laps with the panaracer FR's ( 2.4
    inch Light Downhill tires). They won't pinch flat like
    x-country tires do, they will


    out-corner

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the Hutchinsons dramatically, and you get better bite
    on technical


    climbs.

    Quoted message said:

    <snip more lameness>

    Why would anyone listen to your claptrap? You are an
    admitted rookie and obviously still don't know jack. You
    don't know where the OP lives and you are suggesting
    tires to him? BTW, you CAN pinch flat any tire, contrary
    to your erroneous claim.

    JD

    I admitted that I would be unlikely to beat you up a big
    climb at altitudes over 6000 feet. That's hardly the same
    as me saying I am a rookie.

    You don't know jack, hence "rookie". Yes, it's that obvious.

    Quoted message said:

    I can see you still want blood from me, and with any luck,
    you'll have your chance when I visit my friends in Vegas
    this fall, and ride Bootleg Canyon as well as Cottonwood,
    and other local trails.

    I've seen enough of your "blood" in your continued flailings
    and psuedo-expert "opinions". Keep it up, flatlander.

    JD

  15. [email hidden] (Reco Diver) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (JD) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    BTW, you CAN pinch flat any tire, contrary to your
    erroneous claim.

    Tubeless/Stan's No tubes

    Don't kid yourself. I've seen blown sidewalls on a
    Hutchinson tubeless that was the victim of a classic
    pinch flat.

    JD

  16. [email hidden] (JD) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (Reco Diver) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (JD) wrote in message news:<ebf270c9.04-
    [email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    BTW, you CAN pinch flat any tire, contrary to your
    erroneous claim.

    Tubeless/Stan's No tubes

    Don't kid yourself. I've seen blown sidewalls on a
    Hutchinson tubeless that was the victim of a classic
    pinch flat.

    JD

    Don't get me wrong tubeless systems have just as many modes
    for flats as tubed systems, but pinch flats by definition
    can't happen.

    From old Cow-head:
    draco.acs.uci.edu8b.3.html

    From Fuzzy be fuzzy no more ... or is he?:
    sheldonbrown.comgloss p.html

    Similarly, you can't get chainsuck on a one-speed (sans
    tensioner). Of course I once pulled the wheel forward on a
    climb, had the chain come off the ring, catch on one of the
    arms, and wedge itself between the crank and chainstay. The
    result was the same as chainsuck, but the mode was
    different.

    R

  17. On 29 May 2004 07:48:57 -0700, [email hidden] (Reco Diver)
    scribbled:

    Quoted message said:

    Similarly, you can't get chainsuck on a one-speed (sans
    tensioner). Of course I once pulled the wheel forward on a
    climb, had the chain come off the ring, catch on one of the
    arms, and wedge itself between the crank and chainstay. The
    result was the same as chainsuck, but the mode was
    different.

    R

    A classic pinch-flat it might not be, but I'm sure that with
    the right circumstances you could easily chisel a hole
    through the tire wall by slamming it against the rim.

    -Slash
    --
    "Ebert Victorious"
    -The Onion

  18. [email hidden] (Reco Diver) wrote in
    :"]news:[email hidden]:

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    as tubed systems, but pinch flats by definition
    can't happen.

    I guess if you want to mentally masturbate regarding the
    "definition" of pinch flat, be my guest. All I know is that
    I got a *pinch flat* with a tubeless tire.

    -S.S.-

  19. In article
    <[email hidden]>,
    elan_mbx1 @NOSPAMyahoo.com says...

    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Question about tube/tire weight From:
    SkaredShtles <[email hidden]> Newsgroups:
    alt.mountain-bike

    [email hidden] (Reco Diver) wrote in
    :"]news:[email hidden]:

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    as tubed systems, but pinch flats by definition can't
    happen.

    I guess if you want to mentally masturbate regarding the
    "definition" of pinch flat, be my guest. All I know is
    that I got a *pinch flat* with a tubeless tire.

    -S.S.-

    Call it a snake bite and there can be no argument 🙂
    --
    _________________________
    Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia ramsays-ramsays-
    online.com

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