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Question about stage 12, TDF

brianb · 2004-07-14T16:23:10+00:00

I don't know that much about bike racing. But how would someone look at stage 12? It seems like if you really push to get up the next to last hill, you can open some time, but can't the peloton and whatnot catch up on the downhill? IE is it worth it to start pushing around the front side of the Col d' Aspin? On the way up the mountain, getting the drag off of someone would not be of much help, b/c people would be going very slowly up the mountain, no? So it's really of no disadvantage to be out in front, is this true? It seems like in general that the ability to descend is almost as important as the ability to climb. Kind of odd. Or should someone like lance Armstrong stay with the peloton the whole way and then push in the last 6km to try to win the stage? What's the correct strategy? Also how long can Lance Armstrong just sit back and let people have all this time on him? At some point he's got to get a few minutes on O'Grady and all those people right?

Started by brianb · 14 July 2004 · Last activity 15 July 2004 · 6 posts · 355 views

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01 / Original postQuestion about stage 12, TDFbrianb · 14 Jul 2004 02 / This pagePosts 1–6Page 1 of 1 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #6Roland2k · 15 Jul 2004

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Original section: Road Cycling
Published: 14 July 2004
Last activity: 15 July 2004
Original author: brianb
Posts: 6
Discussion status: Public discussion
Total views: 355
Views / 30 days: 0
Topics: Tour de France Lance Armstrong

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Original post
brianb
Archived post

14 July 2004, 16:23 UTC #1

I don't know that much about bike racing.
But how would someone look at stage 12? It seems like if you really
push to get up the next to last hill, you can open some time, but
can't the peloton and whatnot catch up on the downhill? IE is it
worth it to start pushing around the front side of the Col d' Aspin?
On the way up the mountain, getting the drag off of someone would not
be of much help, b/c people would be going very slowly up the
mountain, no? So it's really of no disadvantage to be out in front,
is this true?
It seems like in general that the ability to descend is almost as
important as the ability to climb. Kind of odd.
Or should someone like lance Armstrong stay with the peloton the whole
way and then push in the last 6km to try to win the stage?
What's the correct strategy?
Also how long can Lance Armstrong just sit back and let people have
all this time on him? At some point he's got to get a few minutes on
O'Grady and all those people right?

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Chris
Archived post

14 July 2004, 17:19 UTC #2

"brianb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
I don't know that much about bike racing.
But how would someone look at stage 12? It seems like if you really
push to get up the next to last hill, you can open some time, but
can't the peloton and whatnot catch up on the downhill?
The "whatnot" can always catch the "you know".
IE is it
Quoted message said:
worth it to start pushing around the front side of the Col d' Aspin?
Some times...
Quoted message said:

On the way up the mountain, getting the drag off of someone would not
be of much help,
What kind of tobacco are you talking about?
Quoted message said:
b/c people would be going very slowly up the
mountain, no? So it's really of no disadvantage to be out in front,
is this true?
Not an advantage to be in front? How else does one get a better time (aside
from bonus sprints)?
Quoted message said:

It seems like in general that the ability to descend is almost as
important as the ability to climb. Kind of odd.
Why is it odd?
Quoted message said:
Or should someone like lance Armstrong stay with the peloton the whole
way and then push in the last 6km to try to win the stage?
It depends...
Quoted message said:
What's the correct strategy?
Any one strategy that leads to a victory is correct.
Quoted message said:
Also how long can Lance Armstrong just sit back and let people have
all this time on him? At some point he's got to get a few minutes on
O'Grady and all those people right?
That will resolve itself. None of those guys have a chance during any of the
2 remaining ITTs and serious mountain stages.

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Charles Hizark
Archived post

14 July 2004, 22:16 UTC #3

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
"brianb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
I don't know that much about bike racing.
But how would someone look at stage 12? It seems like if you really
push to get up the next to last hill, you can open some time, but
can't the peloton and whatnot catch up on the downhill?
The "whatnot" can always catch the "you know".
IE is it
Quoted message said:
worth it to start pushing around the front side of the Col d' Aspin?
Some times...
Quoted message said:

On the way up the mountain, getting the drag off of someone would not
be of much help,
What kind of tobacco are you talking about?
Quoted message said:
b/c people would be going very slowly up the
mountain, no? So it's really of no disadvantage to be out in front,
is this true?
Not an advantage to be in front? How else does one get a better time (aside
from bonus sprints)?
Quoted message said:

It seems like in general that the ability to descend is almost as
important as the ability to climb. Kind of odd.
Why is it odd?
Quoted message said:
Or should someone like lance Armstrong stay with the peloton the whole
way and then push in the last 6km to try to win the stage?
It depends...
I am suprised that Lance has not chosen to launch any attacks yet.
Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:
What's the correct strategy?
Any one strategy that leads to a victory is correct.
Quoted message said:
Also how long can Lance Armstrong just sit back and let people have
all this time on him? At some point he's got to get a few minutes on
O'Grady and all those people right?
That will resolve itself. None of those guys have a chance during any of the
2 remaining ITTs and serious mountain stages.

Report
Sonarrat
Archived post

15 July 2004, 05:34 UTC #4

in article [email hidden], brianb at
[email hidden] wrote on 7/14/04 9:23 AM:
Quoted message said:
I don't know that much about bike racing.
But how would someone look at stage 12? It seems like if you really
push to get up the next to last hill, you can open some time, but
can't the peloton and whatnot catch up on the downhill? IE is it
worth it to start pushing around the front side of the Col d' Aspin?
Pay no attention to what Phil & Paul say. Time after time, year in and year
out, when a man breaks away from the pack going up, he will increase his
lead when descending. The trouble is if he then has to climb another
mountain, or three... though Virenque seemed to have no trouble with nine
today.
Quoted message said:
On the way up the mountain, getting the drag off of someone would not
be of much help, b/c people would be going very slowly up the
mountain, no? So it's really of no disadvantage to be out in front,
is this true?
It's true in terms of aerodynamic drag, but having a man in front of you
going uphill makes you feel like pouncing if you have any aggressive
instinct at all.
Quoted message said:
It seems like in general that the ability to descend is almost as
important as the ability to climb. Kind of odd.
Not at all. You're going a lot faster on the descents, right? So if you
have a pack chasing you which suddenly can't go seven wide when it starts a
technical descent, that's to your advantage.
Quoted message said:
Or should someone like lance Armstrong stay with the peloton the whole
way and then push in the last 6km to try to win the stage?
That's the wisest strategy, yes. He can even start the climb 5 minutes
behind and he could still win, because the rules change when the GC guys get
antsy...
-Sonarrat.

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Donald Munro
Archived post

15 July 2004, 09:21 UTC #5

brianb said:
Quoted message said:
But how would someone look at stage 12? It seems like if you really
push to get up the next to last hill, you can open some time, but
can't the peloton and whatnot catch up on the downhill?
Chris said:
The "whatnot" can always catch the "you know".
I though Whatnot was a genuine contender.

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Roland2k
Archived post

15 July 2004, 19:31 UTC #6

[email hidden] (brianb) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:
I don't know that much about bike racing.
But how would someone look at stage 12? It seems like if you really
push to get up the next to last hill, you can open some time, but
can't the peloton and whatnot catch up on the downhill? IE is it
worth it to start pushing around the front side of the Col d' Aspin?
It would be if he was attacked by ALL of the contenders, one after the
other. He couldn't possibly hold them all off. He would probably be
able to limit the damage, but it would drain him. The key is to force
Armstrong to work instead of sitting on a teammate's wheel, then
accelerating alone on the final climb. Very few people can handle
Armstrong's accelerations, but two or three of them can match or
exceed his pace over long climbs. Armstrong is very good at dosing his
efforts, gaining maximum time for his efforts.
Quoted message said:
On the way up the mountain, getting the drag off of someone would not
be of much help, b/c people would be going very slowly up the
mountain, no? So it's really of no disadvantage to be out in front,
is this true?
Generally, this is true.
Quoted message said:
It seems like in general that the ability to descend is almost as
important as the ability to climb. Kind of odd.
Being a great descender is an important skill, and can cause big time
gaps over a long mountainous stage. Drafting really isn't possible on
technical descents, either.
Quoted message said:
Or should someone like lance Armstrong stay with the peloton the whole
way and then push in the last 6km to try to win the stage?
That's what Lance wants to do. His opponents probably cannot use this
strategy because Lance is strong enough to counter it.
Quoted message said:
What's the correct strategy?
Attack, attack, attack. If I were CSC, T-Mobile, or especially Phonak,
I would start the attacks on the first big climb of Stages 12 and 13.
Each team has a strong overall contender, and at least one serious
threat. USPS has to be challenged at every opportunity. They have the
best-placed GC contender, so they can let the race come to them.
Quoted message said:
Also how long can Lance Armstrong just sit back and let people have
all this time on him? At some point he's got to get a few minutes on
O'Grady and all those people right?
If he just rides with the front group, everyone currently in front of
him on GC will fall off the pace as they conquer the bigger mountains.
Casar may hang on longest, but they will all end up losing ten or
fifteen minutes.
Roland

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