Question about frame/fork stiffness

Quoted message said:

I am wondering about the stiffness, or lack there of, in the joint of
my fork and headtube. To keep the story short, work has been done on
my headtube/headset/steering tube combination. When I ride at low
speed and give the handlebars a shake, the frame seems to wobble some
(which I guess is to be expected) but I am wondering how much is too
much. Is there any rule of thumb on this? The headset is high quality
and new. There is no rattle. Thanks for any insight. JC

What sort of work was done to the headtube/headset/steer tube? Was there any
wobble previously? How tall is the frame? Road bike? What type?

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

holdmybeerandwatchthis said:

I am wondering about the stiffness, or lack there of, in the joint

Squidly?

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

I am wondering about the stiffness, or lack there of, in the joint of
my fork and headtube. To keep the story short, work has been done on
my headtube/headset/steering tube combination. When I ride at low
speed and give the handlebars a shake, the frame seems to wobble some
(which I guess is to be expected) but I am wondering how much is too
much. Is there any rule of thumb on this? The headset is high quality
and new. There is no rattle. Thanks for any insight. JC

What sort of work was done to the headtube/headset/steer tube? Was there any
wobble previously? How tall is the frame? Road bike? What type?

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

The frame is a 58cn trek 5900 that had the fork changed out and the
headset replaced to 1 1/8".
I remember the frameset as being pretty stiff prior to the change.
Looks like the factory inserted some sort of spacer in the bottom of
the headtube that makes the new fork fit. I have not noticed any
problem at high speed, but I haven't had it up over 40mph. No high
speed wobble previously. It may be everything is fine, but I am
wondering if there is a standard for the 'shake test' I described
above. JC

holdmybeerandwatchthis said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

I am wondering about the stiffness, or lack there of, in the joint of
my fork and headtube. To keep the story short, work has been done on
my headtube/headset/steering tube combination. When I ride at low
speed and give the handlebars a shake, the frame seems to wobble some
(which I guess is to be expected) but I am wondering how much is too
much. Is there any rule of thumb on this? The headset is high quality
and new. There is no rattle. Thanks for any insight. JC

What sort of work was done to the headtube/headset/steer tube? Was there any
wobble previously? How tall is the frame? Road bike? What type?

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

The frame is a 58cn trek 5900 that had the fork changed out and the
headset replaced to 1 1/8".
I remember the frameset as being pretty stiff prior to the change.
Looks like the factory inserted some sort of spacer in the bottom of
the headtube that makes the new fork fit. I have not noticed any
problem at high speed, but I haven't had it up over 40mph. No high
speed wobble previously. It may be everything is fine, but I am
wondering if there is a standard for the 'shake test' I described
above. JC

what's the fork?

Quoted message said:

The frame is a 58cn trek 5900 that had the fork changed out and the
headset replaced to 1 1/8".
I remember the frameset as being pretty stiff prior to the change.
Looks like the factory inserted some sort of spacer in the bottom of
the headtube that makes the new fork fit. I have not noticed any
problem at high speed, but I haven't had it up over 40mph. No high
speed wobble previously. It may be everything is fine, but I am
wondering if there is a standard for the 'shake test' I described
above. JC

What year? If it's a 2001 (like mine), it originally came with a 35mm offset
(rake) fork, one of the shortest in the industry. That gave the bike
markedly-different handling than other Treks, which used 41mm for larger
frames, 43-45mm for smaller ones. If you went from 35 to 41mm, you'd
definitely see a difference in handling.

In my case, I went the opposite way. I'd ridden carbon Treks for years with
the exact same geometry but the 41mm fork. When I got the 5900, I was told
it was identical... and the frame was, but the fork was not... it was the
35mm version they stole from the Klein side (an Aeolus) for the first year.
HUGE difference I noticed on the first ride. And then something happened. I
didn't notice it anymore. Not only that, but I could switch between the two
bikes (5900 & 5500) and notice almost no difference in handling.

I suspect you'll end up changing your position on the bike ever-so-slightly,
probably without even realizing it, and find everything's fine.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"holdmybeerandwatchthis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

I am wondering about the stiffness, or lack there of, in the joint of
my fork and headtube. To keep the story short, work has been done on
my headtube/headset/steering tube combination. When I ride at low
speed and give the handlebars a shake, the frame seems to wobble some
(which I guess is to be expected) but I am wondering how much is too
much. Is there any rule of thumb on this? The headset is high quality
and new. There is no rattle. Thanks for any insight. JC

What sort of work was done to the headtube/headset/steer tube? Was there
any
wobble previously? How tall is the frame? Road bike? What type?

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

The frame is a 58cn trek 5900 that had the fork changed out and the
headset replaced to 1 1/8".
I remember the frameset as being pretty stiff prior to the change.
Looks like the factory inserted some sort of spacer in the bottom of
the headtube that makes the new fork fit. I have not noticed any
problem at high speed, but I haven't had it up over 40mph. No high
speed wobble previously. It may be everything is fine, but I am
wondering if there is a standard for the 'shake test' I described
above. JC

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The frame is a 58cn trek 5900 that had the fork changed out and the
headset replaced to 1 1/8".
I remember the frameset as being pretty stiff prior to the change.
Looks like the factory inserted some sort of spacer in the bottom of
the headtube that makes the new fork fit. I have not noticed any
problem at high speed, but I haven't had it up over 40mph. No high
speed wobble previously. It may be everything is fine, but I am
wondering if there is a standard for the 'shake test' I described
above. JC

what's the fork?

The fok would be the latest Bontrager Race X-Lite. It tests out very well in
lateral stiffness, and represents the latest & greatest in terms of
durability. The issue is likely that it has a different amount of offset
from his original, especially if his bike is, like mine, a first-year 5900
(2001), which used an unmodified Klein Aeolus.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"jim beam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

holdmybeerandwatchthis said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

> I am wondering about the stiffness, or lack there of, in the joint of
> my fork and headtube. To keep the story short, work has been done on
> my headtube/headset/steering tube combination. When I ride at low
> speed and give the handlebars a shake, the frame seems to wobble some
> (which I guess is to be expected) but I am wondering how much is too
> much. Is there any rule of thumb on this? The headset is high quality
> and new. There is no rattle. Thanks for any insight. JC
What sort of work was done to the headtube/headset/steer tube? Was there
any
wobble previously? How tall is the frame? Road bike? What type?

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

The frame is a 58cn trek 5900 that had the fork changed out and the
headset replaced to 1 1/8".
I remember the frameset as being pretty stiff prior to the change.
Looks like the factory inserted some sort of spacer in the bottom of
the headtube that makes the new fork fit. I have not noticed any
problem at high speed, but I haven't had it up over 40mph. No high
speed wobble previously. It may be everything is fine, but I am
wondering if there is a standard for the 'shake test' I described
above. JC

what's the fork?

holdmybeerandwatchthis said:

I am wondering about the stiffness, or lack there of, in the joint of
my fork and headtube. To keep the story short, work has been done on
my headtube/headset/steering tube combination. When I ride at low
speed and give the handlebars a shake, the frame seems to wobble some
(which I guess is to be expected) but I am wondering how much is too
much. Is there any rule of thumb on this? The headset is high quality
and new. There is no rattle. Thanks for any insight. JC

I suggest a trip with your bicycle to the most knowledgeable Trek dealer/mechanic around... not the shop where you had the work done. Have them evaluated the insert(s) for mechanical suitability and alignment. It is nearly impossible to read what this issue is. Experienced senses of a knowledgeable bicycle mechanic can determine if something is wrong or not. If something is wrong the mechanic can tell you what steps are needed to remedy the situation.
I have owned three Trek carbon fiber bicycles (original 2500, 5500, & 5900). Each time something involving a carbon/metal interface was dealt with the frames needed to go back to Trek to get the issues resolved.
As an alternative, you can call Trek direct and see if you can get through to a person there that can help. Trek's dealer service network is quite good, but it seems difficult to get the direct consumer resources without going through one of thier dealers.

holdmybeerandwatchthis said:

I am wondering about the stiffness, or lack there of, in the joint of
my fork and headtube. To keep the story short, work has been done on
my headtube/headset/steering tube combination. When I ride at low
speed and give the handlebars a shake, the frame seems to wobble some
(which I guess is to be expected) but I am wondering how much is too
much. Is there any rule of thumb on this? The headset is high quality
and new. There is no rattle. Thanks for any insight. JC

What do you mean, "give the handlebars (sic) a shake"? Won't /any/ frame
wobble some when this is done?

Bill "one bar per bike" S.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

> I am wondering about the stiffness, or lack there of, in the joint of
> my fork and headtube. To keep the story short, work has been done on
> my headtube/headset/steering tube combination. When I ride at low
> speed and give the handlebars a shake, the frame seems to wobble some
> (which I guess is to be expected) but I am wondering how much is too
> much. Is there any rule of thumb on this? The headset is high quality
> and new. There is no rattle. Thanks for any insight. JC
What sort of work was done to the headtube/headset/steer tube? Was
there any
wobble previously? How tall is the frame? Road bike? What type?

Quoted message said:

holdmybeerandwatchthis said:

The frame is a 58cn trek 5900 that had the fork changed out and the
headset replaced to 1 1/8".
I remember the frameset as being pretty stiff prior to the change.
Looks like the factory inserted some sort of spacer in the bottom of
the headtube that makes the new fork fit. I have not noticed any
problem at high speed, but I haven't had it up over 40mph. No high
speed wobble previously. It may be everything is fine, but I am
wondering if there is a standard for the 'shake test' I described
above. JC

jim beam said:

what's the fork?

The fork? The alternate to chopsticks?

Yeah, at first I thought he was describing a simple loose bearing but
now, like you, I wonder if something's seriously awry. OP should return
to LBS and ask a responsible adult to double check the work and inspect
the fork.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

I suggest a trip with your bicycle to the most knowledgeable Trek
dealer/mechanic around... not the shop where you had the work done.

He might not be at that point yet; from reading the OP and his follow-up,
there's no indication it's even been back to the original shop.

Quoted message said:

As an alternative, you can call Trek direct and see if you can get
through to a person there that can help. Trek's dealer service network
is quite good, but it seems difficult to get the direct consumer
resources without going through one of thier dealers.

It's not an accident that it's difficult for a customer to directly contact
warranty folk at Trek (or most other companies). It's the dealer's
responsibility to deal with the 95% of questions that are generally pretty
darned simple and obvious. You would be amazed at how many people want to
call a bicycle company for something as simple as wanting to know which
lever does what when shifting gears. That's the job of the bike shop that
sold the bike, not Trek. If it's made too easy for such calls to go directly
ot Trek customer service, there'd never be enough resources to deal with the
important issues for which their expertise is truly required.

I probably get 5 phone calls a week asking for the phone number for Trek
customer service. I ask nicely what their question is, so that I might best
figure out where to send them (the reality is that I'm finding out if they
need to be "sent" anywhere in the first place). Very, very rarely do they
need something that I can't take care of for them right then on the phone.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"daveornee" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

holdmybeerandwatchthis said:

I am wondering about the stiffness, or lack there of, in the joint of
my fork and headtube. To keep the story short, work has been done on
my headtube/headset/steering tube combination. When I ride at low
speed and give the handlebars a shake, the frame seems to wobble some
(which I guess is to be expected) but I am wondering how much is too
much. Is there any rule of thumb on this? The headset is high quality
and new. There is no rattle. Thanks for any insight. JC

I suggest a trip with your bicycle to the most knowledgeable Trek
dealer/mechanic around... not the shop where you had the work done.
Have them evaluated the insert(s) for mechanical suitability and
alignment. It is nearly impossible to read what this issue is.
Experienced senses of a knowledgeable bicycle mechanic can determine if
something is wrong or not. If something is wrong the mechanic can tell
you what steps are needed to remedy the situation.
I have owned three Trek carbon fiber bicycles (original 2500, 5500, &
5900). Each time something involving a carbon/metal interface was
dealt with the frames needed to go back to Trek to get the issues
resolved.
As an alternative, you can call Trek direct and see if you can get
through to a person there that can help. Trek's dealer service network
is quite good, but it seems difficult to get the direct consumer
resources without going through one of thier dealers.

--
daveornee

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

I suggest a trip with your bicycle to the most knowledgeable Trek
dealer/mechanic around... not the shop where you had the work done.

He might not be at that point yet; from reading the OP and his follow-up,
there's no indication it's even been back to the original shop.

Quoted message said:

As an alternative, you can call Trek direct and see if you can get
through to a person there that can help. Trek's dealer service network
is quite good, but it seems difficult to get the direct consumer
resources without going through one of thier dealers.

It's not an accident that it's difficult for a customer to directly contact
warranty folk at Trek (or most other companies). It's the dealer's
responsibility to deal with the 95% of questions that are generally pretty
darned simple and obvious. You would be amazed at how many people want to
call a bicycle company for something as simple as wanting to know which
lever does what when shifting gears. That's the job of the bike shop that
sold the bike, not Trek. If it's made too easy for such calls to go directly
ot Trek customer service, there'd never be enough resources to deal with the
important issues for which their expertise is truly required.

I probably get 5 phone calls a week asking for the phone number for Trek
customer service. I ask nicely what their question is, so that I might best
figure out where to send them (the reality is that I'm finding out if they
need to be "sent" anywhere in the first place). Very, very rarely do they
need something that I can't take care of for them right then on the phone.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"daveornee" <[email hidden]> wrote in
messagenews:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

holdmybeerandwatchthis said:

I am wondering about the stiffness, or lack there of, in the joint of
my fork and headtube. To keep the story short, work has been done on
my headtube/headset/steering tube combination. When I ride at low
speed and give the handlebars a shake, the frame seems to wobble some
(which I guess is to be expected) but I am wondering how much is too
much. Is there any rule of thumb on this? The headset is high quality
and new. There is no rattle. Thanks for any insight. JC

I suggest a trip with your bicycle to the most knowledgeable Trek
dealer/mechanic around... not the shop where you had the work done.
Have them evaluated the insert(s) for mechanical suitability and
alignment. It is nearly impossible to read what this issue is.
Experienced senses of a knowledgeable bicycle mechanic can determine if
something is wrong or not. If something is wrong the mechanic can tell
you what steps are needed to remedy the situation.
I have owned three Trek carbon fiber bicycles (original 2500, 5500, &
5900). Each time something involving a carbon/metal interface was
dealt with the frames needed to go back to Trek to get the issues
resolved.
As an alternative, you can call Trek direct and see if you can get
through to a person there that can help. Trek's dealer service network
is quite good, but it seems difficult to get the direct consumer
resources without going through one of thier dealers.

Quoted message said:

--
daveornee

Post Script: The work on the 5900 was done by the Trek factory. I
will put some more miles on it before I go through all that again.
Just wondered if I was seeing something real or imagining things. JC