Question about Brie

Thanks for the information.

The last time I tried it, I got it at Trader Joe's. (Usually reliable).

I don't bother returning bad items if it only involves a few dollars
and if the trip doesn't seem worth it.

Maybe I should.

Sounds good.
It's why I haven't given up on Brie.

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The last time I tried it, I got it at Trader Joe's. (Usually reliable).

I don't bother returning bad items if it only involves a few dollars
and if the trip doesn't seem worth it.

Maybe I should.

You should call the headquarters and tell them about this. If they have
specific "specialists" for different departments, it's their job to know
when product is going bad, and clear it out. Then, mention it to the manager
of the specific store. It's good when they know they're being watched by
people they wish they could hire. :-) This past August, I "helped" a manager
understand that it's not good to sell mussels older than 7 days, or uncured
turkey bacon whose "sell by" date is two weeks ago.

this post was not meant to be sent - it was incomplete and was put in t he
hold box and somehow was sent by Outlook by mistake.

Apologies for any confusion or misunderstandings

"hob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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"Sheldon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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hob said:

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> Everytime I've purchased it, or been given it, it smells and tastes
> like ammonia. As I understand it, this means that it's past its

prime,

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> but I'm paying high prices for it.
>
> Where could I find Brie that isn't spoiled?

I am not sure it is spoiled if it smells a little pungent
But if it tastes like ammonia, it sure sounds like it was

improperly

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stored, or mis-handled by a cutter using a fouled knife or board, or

was

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touched by hands that cleaned knives
(ammonia takes off the wax on knife blades deposited from cutting

waxed

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wheels While Brie is not waxed, others in the shops are ).

Most cheese is a living product. Because the mold/bacteria/enzymes

that

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create most cheese still are working and are still giving off

byproducts

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like methane, etc. throughout the life of the package/wheel, almost

all

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cheeses need an hour opened out in the air to breathe before serving.

Brie

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is one that needs an hour uncovered at room temp to "out-gas" trapped
pungent byproducts.

That said - I am hard pressed to think of any natural compound in an
unadulterated ripe brie cheese that would break down and create

ammonia

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rather than create methane, without some outside help. Might be, but

it

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seems odd to get ammonia at storage temp, given the mixes in cheese

and

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air.

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However, some mfgs pkg food in gasses that stop deterioration

(e.g.,

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nitrogen in potato chip bags) to get longer shelf life, or they use

gasses

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to comply with the regulations intended to protect against

agricultural

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organisms (gasses are added to kill aerobic bacteria).
While nitrogen is ok for pkging chips, I would think it would

combine

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in

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the complex fats of cheese to do weird things, or promote dangerous

anerobic

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bacteria in dairy products.
If they filled it with nitrogen and then pasteurized it......

I have kept small brie and camembert wheels well beyond their "use

by"

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dates a couple times, and it seems to take a fair amount of time to

get

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noticeable breakdown, especially one that doesn't pretty much

dissipate

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out

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during its breathing hour.

I would try an upscale cheese shop, or buy the small (1 lb) intact
wheels. In the upscale shops, you can ask for a taste before buying,

and

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if

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you get an ammonia taste, you can pass on the Brie - (tell them about

the

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ammonia taste, of course).

Actually you don't know what you're talking about, in fact you're
delusional.

That is, of course, a conclusion based on your inability to read , your
inexperience, and a link to an opinion by an internet "editor", rather

than

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facts.

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http://www.cheese.com/Description.asp?Name=brie

Brie
Description:
Brie is the best known French cheese and has a nickname "The Queen of
Cheeses". Several hundred years ago, Brie was one of the tributes which
had to be paid to the French kings. In France, Brie is very different
from the cheese exported to the United States. "Real" French Brie is
unstabilized

So Shgeldon, what is this stabilizing? How is it done? Heat or gas - what
else is there? See my post.

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and the flavor is complex when the surface turns slightly
brown.

The Brie cheese I get here every couple months does brown when properly
handled.
Maybe that person on the cheese site handles Brie like everyone else

who

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handles a Brie that does not ripen rathert han doing it properly, and thus
"proves" it cannot ripen.

When the cheese is still pure-white, it is not matured. If the

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cheese is cut before the maturing process is finished, it will never
develop properly.

"properly" being defined as what? And a cut defined as what? The info from
the link is hand-waving at best.

Exported Brie, however, is stabilized and never

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matures.

Oh, I see - those ignorant French have been exporting underage cheese that
can never develop because why? They like to sell something other than real
Brie? Maybe the writer meant imported Brie?

Stabilized Brie has a much longer shelf life and is not

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susceptible to bacteriological infections. Brie, one of the great
dessert cheeses, comes as either a 1 or 2 kilogram wheel and is packed
in a wooden box. In order to enjoy the taste fully, Brie must be served
at room temperature.
Country
France
Milk:
cow milk
Texture:
soft
Fat content:
45 %
Recommended Wine:
Bourgogne
Producer:
Societe fromagere de la Brie
19 Avenue du Grand Morin
77169 Saint-Simeon

"hob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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<[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Everytime I've purchased it, or been given it, it smells and tastes
like ammonia. As I understand it, this means that it's past its prime,
but I'm paying high prices for it.

Where could I find Brie that isn't spoiled?

As a followup having more time today
- I usually get "President's" in the 15 oz "mini-wheel" - The parent
company, Lactolais? or some such name, also distributes them in France
under a different name, so it can't be all that bad. I just bought a 15 oz
brie and a 15 oz camembert at the local supermarket a couple weeks back for
my kid to take to the U for a tasting-comparison "party", so I think the
brand is fairly common.
Never had a bad one, and at least for me who just had to try it, they do
"brown up" in under a couple weeks or so, wrapped in medical gauze in a
tight very clean container in my bar refrig, which is set high, about
45-50F. (Since it's a dairy product, no mfg is ever going to tell you the
consumer to store dairy at that high a temp for that long)
The mold used to make the cheese, like most molds, has spores that are
pretty hard to kill short of a few hundred degree heat or a strong chemical
or radiation, especially deep in the wheel. But it took somewhere around
4-5 months to make that cheese, so a long week "to be perfect" is kind of
short compared to those months.
IMHE, the ripeness and the texture of the pear served with it and the wine
has more to do with Brie being from heaven than does one more week in a
cave. I might suggest you try it with a couple kinds of pears.

You can also get 8 oz wheels under the Joan of Arc brand in a lot of
stores, from some Swiss? company.

Note - There is a little bit of a difference in taste and texture as the
wheels get smaller - which makes sense because the milk in the center dries
faster in small wheels and the center is closer to the mold. The small
wheels don't seem to get that "runny middle", but the firmer texture is more
to the liking of some.

-----------

FWIW - "real Brie from Brie" that you can only get outside the US, in the
3-4 lb wheels, is made with unpasteurized milk from cows feeding on local
grass, and is handled by townspeople, and is put in wheels and sprayed with
penicillium mold, and is left to rot in a damp calcified cave until the
wheel shrinks to maybe three pounds - and every few years e coli or
lysterium or one of those nasty things gets in the cheese and causes a
problem.
Its the price you pay for getting milk out of an animal that comes out so
close to its massive source of E-coli - which is why we pasteurize.
I don't think you can get unpasterized anything imported into the US ,
after those death(s) and illness in France in the 90s from a batch of
(unpasteurized milk) Brie

hope it helps

Quoted message said:

I am not sure it is spoiled if it smells a little pungent
But if it tastes like ammonia, it sure sounds like it was improperly
stored, or mis-handled by a cutter using a fouled knife or board, or was
touched by hands that cleaned knives
(ammonia takes off the wax on knife blades deposited from cutting waxed
wheels While Brie is not waxed, others in the shops are ).

Most cheese is a living product. Because the mold/bacteria/enzymes that
create most cheese still are working and are still giving off byproducts
like methane, etc. throughout the life of the package/wheel, almost all
cheeses need an hour opened out in the air to breathe before serving. Brie
is one that needs an hour uncovered at room temp to "out-gas" trapped
pungent byproducts.

That said - I am hard pressed to think of any natural compound in an
unadulterated ripe brie cheese that would break down and create ammonia
rather than create methane, without some outside help. Might be, but it
seems odd to get ammonia at storage temp, given the mixes in cheese and

air.

Quoted message said:

However, some mfgs pkg food in gasses that stop deterioration (e.g.,
nitrogen in potato chip bags) to get longer shelf life, or they use gasses
to comply with the regulations intended to protect against agricultural
organisms (gasses are added to kill aerobic bacteria).
While nitrogen is ok for pkging chips, I would think it would combine

in

Quoted message said:

the complex fats of cheese to do weird things, or promote dangerous

anerobic

Quoted message said:

bacteria in dairy products.
If they filled it with nitrogen and then pasteurized it......

I have kept small brie and camembert wheels well beyond their "use by"
dates a couple times, and it seems to take a fair amount of time to get
noticeable breakdown, especially one that doesn't pretty much dissipate

out

Quoted message said:

during its breathing hour.

I would try an upscale cheese shop, or buy the small (1 lb) intact
wheels. In the upscale shops, you can ask for a taste before buying, and

if

Quoted message said:

you get an ammonia taste, you can pass on the Brie - (tell them about the
ammonia taste, of course).

FWIW

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

FWIW - "real Brie from Brie" that you can only get outside the US, in the
3-4 lb wheels, is made with unpasteurized milk from cows feeding on local
grass, and is handled by townspeople, and is put in wheels and sprayed
with
penicillium mold, and is left to rot in a damp calcified cave until the
wheel shrinks to maybe three pounds - and every few years e coli or
lysterium or one of those nasty things gets in the cheese and causes a
problem.
Its the price you pay for getting milk out of an animal that comes out so
close to its massive source of E-coli - which is why we pasteurize.

Quoted message said:

I don't think you can get unpasterized anything imported into the US ,
after those death(s) and illness in France in the 90s from a batch of
(unpasteurized milk) Brie
hope it helps

I just returned from Whole Foods in Vienna, VA, and we bought 6 different
un-pasterized (or raw milk) from various countries. They have at least
12-20 types of European un-pasturized cheeses there. I also bought
d'Affinois, unpasturized, which was recommended here earlier because the
poster said it was close to brie.
Dee dee

Dee Randall said:

I also bought
d'Affinois, unpasturized, which was recommended here earlier because the
poster said it was close to brie.

What did you think of it?

"sf" <sf@see_reply_address.com> wrote in message
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Dee Randall said:

I also bought
d'Affinois, unpasturized, which was recommended here earlier because the
poster said it was close to brie.

What did you think of it?

I'll let you know when I get a taste of it. I have the 6 cheeses to wrap
tomorrow in my NEW FOODSAVER!!!! Oh, the cheese I've thrown away over the
past few years, I'm so ashamed! When I unwrap and re-wrap these cheeses in
the foodsaver, I will be cheese-tasting -- yum! Today I think I'll go to
Costco and buy (if I like it) their oblong crockpot. Mine is about 30 years
old, a Rival, which has served me well, and I'll keep it, for sure, but I
want to put do shredded beef and I have two rectangular pieces of beef, so I
think it's time to move on to a new one.

I was thinking last night about putting a piece of FROZEN meat (vs. letting
it thaw first) into a slow cooker, and the advisability of doing so because
at some point, the meat is going to be sitting at a temperature similar to
letting it sit out on the counter -- and I know, that's a NO-NO. Has anyone
done this and are still living to reply?
Thanks for any replies.
Dee Dee

"Dee Randall" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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I was thinking last night about putting a piece of FROZEN meat (vs.
letting it thaw first) into a slow cooker, and the advisability of doing
so because at some point, the meat is going to be sitting at a temperature
similar to letting it sit out on the counter -- and I know, that's a
NO-NO. Has anyone done this and are still living to reply?

If I put meat into my crockpot in the morning before going out to work for
the day I always use frozen. If i don't it will be very overcooked by the
time I get home. And yes.. I am running it on low

O

"Ophelia" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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"Dee Randall" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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I was thinking last night about putting a piece of FROZEN meat (vs.
letting it thaw first) into a slow cooker, and the advisability of doing
so because at some point, the meat is going to be sitting at a
temperature similar to letting it sit out on the counter -- and I know,
that's a NO-NO. Has anyone done this and are still living to reply?

If I put meat into my crockpot in the morning before going out to work for
the day I always use frozen. If i don't it will be very overcooked by the
time I get home. And yes.. I am running it on low

O

Thanks! Thanks! Thanks!
Dee Dee

"Dee Randall" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

FWIW - "real Brie from Brie" that you can only get outside the US, in

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

3-4 lb wheels, is made with unpasteurized milk from cows feeding on

local

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

grass, and is handled by townspeople, and is put in wheels and sprayed
with
penicillium mold, and is left to rot in a damp calcified cave until the
wheel shrinks to maybe three pounds - and every few years e coli or
lysterium or one of those nasty things gets in the cheese and causes a
problem.
Its the price you pay for getting milk out of an animal that comes out

so

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

close to its massive source of E-coli - which is why we pasteurize.

Quoted message said:

I don't think you can get unpasterized anything imported into the US

,

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Quoted message said:

after those death(s) and illness in France in the 90s from a batch of
(unpasteurized milk) Brie
hope it helps

I just returned from Whole Foods in Vienna, VA, and we bought 6 different
un-pasterized (or raw milk) from various countries. They have at least
12-20 types of European un-pasturized cheeses there. I also bought
d'Affinois, unpasturized, which was recommended here earlier because the
poster said it was close to brie.
Dee dee

Interesting - I guess you can't believe everything the govt says :-)

Or maybe it's bootleg cheese.... Al Chevroti, alive and well, catering to
the decadent tastes of inquisitive Americans ...

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Dee Randall said:

I was thinking last night about putting a piece of FROZEN meat (vs. letting
it thaw first) into a slow cooker, and the advisability of doing so because
at some point, the meat is going to be sitting at a temperature similar to
letting it sit out on the counter -- and I know, that's a NO-NO. Has anyone
done this and are still living to reply?

I don't use a crock pot very much... maybe once every 5 years or so,
but I can certainly remember when I used to let frozen meat thaw on
the counter (before DH took over the cooking and decided frozen meat
wasn't up to his standards).

Both of us are still alive and kicking in spite of me serving him
inferior quality meat because it was frozen and then thawed at room
temperature.

😉

Dee Randall said:

I was thinking last night about putting a piece of FROZEN meat (vs. letting
it thaw first) into a slow cooker, and the advisability of doing so because
at some point, the meat is going to be sitting at a temperature similar to
letting it sit out on the counter -- and I know, that's a NO-NO. Has anyone
done this and are still living to reply?

I believe it is advised against in your slow cooker directions, but I
do put frozen meat in my crockpot and cook it on low and I'm not dead
yet. Then again, my mom used to thaw meat out on the counter so maybe
I have built up immunity to the improperly thawed meat cooties.

Tara

"sf" <sf@see_reply_address.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dee Randall said:

I also bought
d'Affinois, unpasturized, which was recommended here earlier because the
poster said it was close to brie.

What did you think of it?

About 2 hours ago, we had about half of it. It was heaven. The first time
ever I ate the rind of a cheese. Maybe I 'AM' a heathen, but I did have
white bread from Whole Foods toasted to dry, and the d'Affinois cheese,
with coffee -- organic El Salvador - made strong with heavy cream. (Too
early in the day to drink wine [for me].) We ate a lot of it. Forget brie!
Forget Camembert! And, forget dinner!
Dee Dee

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tara said:

Dee Randall said:

I was thinking last night about putting a piece of FROZEN meat (vs. letting
it thaw first) into a slow cooker, and the advisability of doing so because
at some point, the meat is going to be sitting at a temperature similar to
letting it sit out on the counter -- and I know, that's a NO-NO. Has anyone
done this and are still living to reply?

I believe it is advised against in your slow cooker directions, but I
do put frozen meat in my crockpot and cook it on low and I'm not dead
yet. Then again, my mom used to thaw meat out on the counter so maybe
I have built up immunity to the improperly thawed meat cooties.

Tara

<snort> I thaw meat at room temp all the time and I'm not dead yet. ;-)
It's easy for meal planning for me to take out a package of frozen meat
(sometimes that means a 5 lb. bag of chicken breasts) and stick the bag
into the microwave overnight so the cats don't get into it, and it's
thawed when I come home from work 9 hours later so I can cook in the
mornings...

No, I don't turn the m-wave on, it's just a cat safe room temp. area.

I've never even had it spoil doing this. I DO leave it in it's package
so it's covered.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

Dee Randall said:

We ate a lot of it. Forget brie!
Forget Camembert! And, forget dinner!

Note to Christine Dabney.... put d'Affinois on the list of things to
serve at our first get together.

sf see_reply_address.com said:

Dee Randall said:

We ate a lot of it. Forget brie!
Forget Camembert! And, forget dinner!

Note to Christine Dabney.... put d'Affinois on the list of things to
serve at our first get together.

Hmm....okay...

Gotta try some of this....

Christine