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Quality/Quantity and aging - Part II

Started by David Harris · · Last activity · 9 posts · 299 views

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
6 February 2005
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7 February 2005
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David Harris
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  1. After getting a lot of advice here (thank you), I've tried to put
    together a revised training plan. It seemed better to consolidate into a
    new thread.

    A couple of comments:

    I may have overstated my preference towards quality. I didn't intend to
    solely focus on speedwork, but was considering dropping some of the
    "normal" paced runs during the week. As I've been building some base
    mileage since October, most of the runs have been at a normal/easy pace.
    I started adding a longer run on the weekend, currently at 17 mi. The
    intent was to start to add some strengthening runs in March, and then
    some speedwork in April to be ready for a race in May. To avoid killing
    myself, I thought I'd add a rest day after each hard workout, which would
    aid in recovery, but result in fewer miles.

    Both Dan and Doug suggested a switch to trail running. This isn't really
    an option for me, living in mid-town Toronto. I don't think there are
    any decent trails anywhere nearby, and winter snow and spring muck take a
    lot of the season away. If anyone knows of some places around here, I'd
    love to hear.

    I may have set off some unnecessary alarms with my weekly "hills and a
    fast km" run. The intent of those is to add some gentle strengthening
    through the hills (which are run easily, not aggressively), and the
    intent of the km at speed is to benchmark where I'm at - i.e. to give
    some positive feedback that conditioning is improving. It was not really
    intended to build any speed, although with most of my running being quite
    easy, I'd hoped that have some fast leg turnover would lead to a faster
    normal pace - that may have been dreaming. Regardless, this particular
    run was not intended or considered as a speed session.

    As far as real speed sessions, I don't think I could handle too much,
    even once my base and strength are improved. I'd like to get a tempo run
    going soon, at the Wednesday night club runs. The beauty of these, is
    that there are a number of people faster than me. There is a large group
    (maybe 50 - 60) of runners of varying abilities. We all start together
    at an easy pace. The good runners keep on picking up the pace, mile by
    mile. My goal is to get to my tempo pace with them, and hold that for a
    longer time each week. Later in the program, I'd like to add some
    intervals on a different night. That, along with lengthing LSD's would
    eventually give 3 hard workouts a week, which may be too much. If it is,
    I don't know what to give up: LSD, tempo, intervals, or a "normal" run?
    I'm sure this will be the crux of the training both in terms of achieving
    success or failure/injury.

    I haven't been doing (or considering) cross training. So I'd like to
    incorporate some of SW David's ideas about cycling. I have a trainer for
    the bike, so I think I'll add an hour once or twice a week. Maybe
    instead of the rest/recovery days? I'm wary of switching to too much
    cycling, because I found that focussing on a lot of cycling last summer
    resulted in much poorer (slower) running. I think part of that is you
    develop big heavy upper legs, which aren't helpful to running. I think
    his friend is a bit lucky in how well it works out for him, and obviously
    started off as a pretty gifted runner. I should also consider some XC
    skiing, while winter's still here. I think it is probably better than
    cycling, in that it is a more complete (all body) workout, and the
    motions and forces are closer to those in running, but with less stress
    and pounding.

    I was overly agressive in jumping from 30 to 50 mpw. I will take longer,
    and I will have some weeks where mileage goes down instead of up. This
    is in part because I think it's a good idea, and in part because I've
    always felt training plans need to be flexible - they need to adapt to
    how you are feeling, and for the next two months, weather conditions and
    footing can be quite unreliable.

    As to Roger's comments that I'm going through a mid-life crisis, that may
    be true in part. I've come to realize that running was an important part
    of my sense of self, and I want it back. I'm not naturally fast, but I
    do have good endurance - so I get a better sense of fulfillment out of
    running distance. I try not to think about further long-term injury, and
    the possibility that this could knock me out of running for good. Yeah,
    that's called "denial".

    Any of these changes sound better?

    dh

  2. David Harris said:

    I've come to realize that running was an important part
    of my sense of self, and I want it back.

    And you *seriously* consider this is the way to do it?

    Quoted message said:

    I get a better sense of fulfillment out of
    running distance.

    So you're going to have to be very careful, aren't you?

    Quoted message said:

    I try not to think about further long-term injury, and
    the possibility that this could knock me out of running for good.


    Yeah,

    Quoted message said:

    that's called "denial".

    Ignoring this is just plain stupid, but then anyone who seeks advice
    here <yup, I place my recent request in that category too> is pretty
    desperate.

    David, your quest has a simple solution. Swim <heaps>, cycle
    <regularly, but not too far>, and save the runs as 'treats' - doing
    maybe three or four a week but ALWAYS with a rest day in-between runs.
    Yeah, it's far from what you want to hear but it's more likely to work
    and keep you running into your 60's and 70's than any of the proposals
    you've received to date.

    Some of the older guys I run with are having considerable success using
    lightweight race shoes, so much so that they persuaded me to try. I
    must say I've noticed no adverse effects (other than they don't last
    long) and I've yet to experience my annual recurrance of ITB that seems
    to strike when I'm running on icy roads or trails. Maybe that [censored] Oz
    was onto something? If nothing else they force you to think about
    form and footstrike, which can only be a good thing at any age.

    Good luck.

    Roger.

  3. On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 10:11:22 -0600, David Harris
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:


    Both Dan and Doug suggested a switch to trail running. This isn't really
    an option for me, living in mid-town Toronto. I don't think there are
    any decent trails anywhere nearby, and winter snow and spring muck take a
    lot of the season away. If anyone knows of some places around here, I'd
    love to hear.


    <snip some more>

    the only real trail running i know of near toronto is
    http://www.torontohiking.com/Hikes/rouge/rouge.html
    ....thehick

  4. I've personally written off the big races,
    to preserve modest running as long as I can.
    I'd rather be able run 30 minutes 300 days a year
    than have long periods of injury and pain.
    This month is my 36th runnning anniversary,
    and I hope to exceed fifty.
    I developed a psuedo-arthritis in a knee last year.
    That meant it got sore while running, sitting for long periods,
    and rising in the morning. But it went away
    after many months of moderation and care.

  5. rick++ said:

    This month is my 36th runnning anniversary,
    and I hope to exceed fifty.

    Congratulations, Rick! It's nice to see people into running for the long
    term.

    Dot

    --
    "You try to slow down and enjoy it. You try to look at the scenery. But
    your brain can kind of go blank. All you want to do is tell your feet to
    keep working."
    -Cedar Petrosius, women's winner 2004 Matanuska Peak Challenge (14mi,
    9000ft up and down)

  6. "David Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Any of these changes sound better?

    David - it sounds a lot better to me.

    I've incorporated a moderate amount of bike riding in my training.
    I started while I was injured to maintain fitness, and since I retured from
    injury I use it as transport to local parks to avoid running on the roads.

    Regarding "quality" sessions. For my last marathon I did very little
    classical "interval" training. A weekly long run which was based on
    Pfitzinger's recommendations. Start slow gradually increase to
    Marathon Pace - 10%. Typically its 5 miles building to MP-20%
    and the last 5 miles at MP - 10%, wiith the middle portion gradually
    increasing from MP -20% to MP - 10%. Mid-week "medium-long" runs
    (11-15 miles) can also be structured like this.

    My other "quality" session is mid-week at the track. Most often it is some
    type of Lactate-threshold run.

    Anthony.

  7. David Harris wrote in message <[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    snip<
    ....
    I haven't been doing (or considering) cross training. So I'd like to
    incorporate some of SW David's ideas about cycling. I have a trainer for
    the bike, so I think I'll add an hour once or twice a week. Maybe
    instead of the rest/recovery days? I'm wary of switching to too much

    Cycling on rest/recovery days is a good idea, perhaps combined with a very
    short run. It reminds the running muscles not to relax too much.

    Quoted message said:

    cycling, because I found that focussing on a lot of cycling last summer
    resulted in much poorer (slower) running. I think part of that is you
    develop big heavy upper legs, which aren't helpful to running. I think
    his friend is a bit lucky in how well it works out for him, and obviously

    You're quite right that cycling can build up your legs too much. A key
    factor is to ride in very easy gears with a high cadence, like 100-110. Save
    your power work for hill running; power cycling will only build your legs
    too much. Also, very long rides will hurt your running ability more than
    sub-one hour rides.

    For me cycling is enjoyable and helps on the easy days, but I don't try to
    match my running heart rate. I just go out for easy rides mostly. Since
    cycling can tighten the legs up, I try to walk for 10-15 mins right after
    cycling and do a few ; that seems to help. When doing a brick session, I
    much prefer to run first and bike second, the reverse of a normal triathlon.
    Running after cycling shows you what cycling does to your legs - expends
    your quads and tightens your legs. High cadence, extra stretching and a
    walking cool-down are all helpful when cross-training with cycling.

    Quoted message said:

    snip<
    Any of these changes sound better?

    Sounds better to me, for all but the professionals, an exercise life with a
    mixture of activities is healthier in the long run IMO.

    -Tony

  8. Quoted message said:

    I have a trainer for

    Quoted message said:

    the bike, so I think I'll add an hour once or twice a week. Maybe
    instead of the rest/recovery days?

    ===
    I'm 62 and find that I stiffen up on rest days unless I do something with my
    legs so I cycle.

    jack

  9. "Jackhat1" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I have a trainer for

    Quoted message said:

    the bike, so I think I'll add an hour once or twice a week. Maybe
    instead of the rest/recovery days?

    ===
    I'm 62 and find that I stiffen up on rest days unless I do something with
    my
    legs so I cycle.

    i pretty much stiffen up if the wind blows.

    (beat you to it, fabby)

    Quoted message said:

    jack

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