Quaker Oatmeal and Blood Sugar

"George" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:KcWKe.173$A%3.138
@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com:

Quoted message said:

Just had a yearly physical and for the first time my blood sugar is a bit
high. One dietary change I made in the past year was to eat Quaker
(Old-Fashioned) Oatmeal every day for breakfast. This is the simple
unflavored stuff.

Did an online search but haven't been able to find the glycemic load for
this particular product. I note from its nutrition label that the carb
content is high.

Can anyone tell me whether this is likely to raise blood sugar?

You need to get a blood sugar meter and test yourself before and two hours
after eating the oatmeal. You'll need to test yourself a few times, since
people's glucose metabolism does fluctuate. If your BG after two hours is
under 120mg/dl, then you're fine. If not, you'll need to reduce your
portion size and/or have oatmeal only a few days a week and/or try
something like steel-cut oatmeal (though that takes 30 minutes to cook, so
it might not be convenient for you). In general, the varieties of oatmeal
that take longer to cook tend to raise your blood sugar the least, but as
they say, YMMV.

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 05:12:10 GMT, George wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

One dietary change I made in the past year was to eat Quaker
(Old-Fashioned) Oatmeal every day for breakfast. This is the simple
unflavored stuff.

Did an online search but haven't been able to find the glycemic load for
this particular product. I note from its nutrition label that the carb
content is high.

On www.glycemicindex.com there are other brands, anyway. Hope that helps.

http://ziag4.mmb.usyd.edu.au/FMPro?-db=gidb2.fp5&-format=resultsv4a.htm&-lay=tableview&-sortfield=none&-sortorder=descend&FoodName=oat&-max=50&-find=

x-no-archive: yes

George said:

Just had a yearly physical and for the first time my blood sugar is a bit
high. One dietary change I made in the past year was to eat Quaker
(Old-Fashioned) Oatmeal every day for breakfast. This is the simple
unflavored stuff.

Did an online search but haven't been able to find the glycemic load for
this particular product. I note from its nutrition label that the carb
content is high.

Can anyone tell me whether this is likely to raise blood sugar?

Thanks.

YES. A lot. Some diabetics can eat steel cut, slow cooked oatmeal, but
it's a YMMV thing.

Best thing to do is to get a glucose meter (the cheapest strips, the big
cost, are for Walmart Relion) and test your bg before your first bite,
one and two hours after to see which foods spike you.

Susan

"Susan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

YES. A lot. Some diabetics can eat steel cut, slow cooked oatmeal, but
it's a YMMV thing.

Best thing to do is to get a glucose meter (the cheapest strips, the big
cost, are for Walmart Relion) and test your bg before your first bite,
one and two hours after to see which foods spike you.

Susan

I take old fashioned oats ( not oat meal ) with milk
and a slice of cheese 5 days ia a week . It takes 15 mts to cook .

It is very light , my BG levels are always normal and I also found
this to improve my lipid profile . I do go for a brisk
walk everyday 60 mts .

Kam

--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Not by itself, how is your weight status as measured by the bmi? An
elevated glucose level can be an indication of the start of the metabolic
syndrome which risk factors are weight, low physical activity as the major
things to consider. What was the level and under what conditions was the
test done?

"Just had a yearly physical and for the first time my blood sugar is a bit
high. One dietary change I made in the past year was to eat Quaker
(Old-Fashioned) Oatmeal every day for breakfast. This is the simple
unflavored stuff.

Did an online search but haven't been able to find the glycemic load for
this particular product. I note from its nutrition label that the carb
content is high.

Can anyone tell me whether this is likely to raise blood sugar?"

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Not by itself, how is your weight status as measured by the bmi? An
elevated glucose level can be an indication of the start of the metabolic
syndrome which risk factors are weight, low physical activity as the major
things to consider. What was the level and under what conditions was the
test done?

My BMI is 23-24, no fat. I'm pretty active and work out at the gym 3 or 4
times weekly. The BG measurement result was 130. The only lifestyle change
I can think of since my last yearly physical is the Quaker Old Fashioned
Oatmeal that I've been eating daily, albeit in large (double-portion)
quantities. Also eat fresh fruit like melon, cherries and peaches, plus dry
roasted almonds. I avoid sweets, cakes, ice cream, beef, sugary and fatty
foods in general. Will appreciate any suggestions.

On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 05:26:48 GMT, George wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition
:

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Not by itself, how is your weight status as measured by the bmi? An
elevated glucose level can be an indication of the start of the metabolic
syndrome which risk factors are weight, low physical activity as the major
things to consider. What was the level and under what conditions was the
test done?

My BMI is 23-24, no fat. I'm pretty active and work out at the gym 3 or 4
times weekly.

[...]

That's why I believe the fat/lean mass percentage would be more telling
than BMI. A muscular guy can have a higher BMI, no fat.

"The BG measurement result was 130. The only lifestyle change I can think
of since my last yearly physical is the Quaker Old Fashioned Oatmeal that
I've been eating daily, albeit in large (double-portion) quantities.
Also eat fresh fruit like melon, cherries and peaches, plus dry roasted
almonds. I avoid sweets, cakes, ice cream, beef, sugary and fatty foods
in general. Will appreciate any suggestions."

I assume it was a fasting test, what time of day. Was the test done using
an amount of glucose and then the test at time intervals or was it from
blood drawn or a glucose meter and a spot of blood. That number is a bit
high for any of the test methods. Your bmi and exercise most likely rules
out metabolic syndrome. Did your doc suggest a retest in the near future,
if not I wuld have it done anyway. Get or borrow a meter and see what
your numbers are before and 2 hours after starting a breakfast using your
typical foods, this test is the best predictor of risk of metabolic
disorders. I don't see anyway that one food regardless of amount will
change one's fasting numbers, there is a metabolic reason for this.
Normally the glucose control system fine tunes glucose over the long term
within a narrow range independent of amount of carbohydrates or their
source. There is one other thing that comes to mind but I would like to
see your response to the above to exclude it.

"It's not uncommon for metabolic syndrome to be present in slim, active
people. I was thin and a regular gym goer when my insulin resistance and
PCOS were developing at their worst due to a very high carb, low fat"

Yes, but I ruled it out because of the limited moderate gi carbohydrates
he consumes, as listed in a previous post.

x-no-archive: yes

Quoted message said:

"The BG measurement result was 130. The only lifestyle change I can think
of since my last yearly physical is the Quaker Old Fashioned Oatmeal that
I've been eating daily, albeit in large (double-portion) quantities.
Also eat fresh fruit like melon, cherries and peaches, plus dry roasted
almonds. I avoid sweets, cakes, ice cream, beef, sugary and fatty foods
in general. Will appreciate any suggestions."

I assume it was a fasting test, what time of day. Was the test done using
an amount of glucose and then the test at time intervals or was it from
blood drawn or a glucose meter and a spot of blood. That number is a bit
high for any of the test methods. Your bmi and exercise most likely rules
out metabolic syndrome.

It's not uncommon for metabolic syndrome to be present in slim, active
people. I was thin and a regular gym goer when my insulin resistance
and PCOS were developing at their worst due to a very high carb, low fat
diet and my genetics interacting.

Susan

"But you can't rule it out on that basis. I remained IR even on low carb,
many do."

Anything is possible, but as you say your ir was associated with genes and
a history of high carb intake, which his current diet is not. Even if you
started low carb it takes a period of time for ir to drop once it has been
established. His diet is a moderate carb one, just the thing to head off
metabolic syndrome, other things being equal. In a recent post he said
his lipids were normal, which also tends to rule out metabolic syndrome.

x-no-archive: yes

Quoted message said:

"It's not uncommon for metabolic syndrome to be present in slim, active
people. I was thin and a regular gym goer when my insulin resistance and
PCOS were developing at their worst due to a very high carb, low fat"

Yes, but I ruled it out because of the limited moderate gi carbohydrates
he consumes, as listed in a previous post.

But you can't rule it out on that basis. I remained IR even on low
carb, many do.

Susan

Yes, it was a fasting test done as part of a regular annual physical. Blood
was drawn at 8:00am. My doc wants a second test done in a few weeks. I
also wonder how one food - in this case Oatmeal - would change my fasting
numbers. This is the reason for my original post. Lipids and other test
results were normal. Thanks for your assistance. I'll get a meter and
check before/after meals as you suggest, though I don't see how that would
relate to the fasting numbers long-term.

==================

Quoted message said:

I assume it was a fasting test, what time of day. Was the test done using
an amount of glucose and then the test at time intervals or was it from
blood drawn or a glucose meter and a spot of blood. That number is a bit
high for any of the test methods. Your bmi and exercise most likely rules
out metabolic syndrome. Did your doc suggest a retest in the near future,
if not I wuld have it done anyway. Get or borrow a meter and see what
your numbers are before and 2 hours after starting a breakfast using your
typical foods, this test is the best predictor of risk of metabolic
disorders. I don't see anyway that one food regardless of amount will
change one's fasting numbers, there is a metabolic reason for this.
Normally the glucose control system fine tunes glucose over the long term
within a narrow range independent of amount of carbohydrates or their
source. There is one other thing that comes to mind but I would like to
see your response to the above to exclude it.

"Possibly, but the ratios are most important, not the individual levels.

Slimness, low carb dieting and activity do not rule out insulin
resistance, nor will they necessarily completely reverse it."

Perhaps we are at cross purposes here. My thoughts in the thread have
been with regardd to metabolic syndrome which is diagnosed as a cluster of
symptoms and having some number of that cluster diagnostic. He has only
one of that cluster which includes bmi and level of physical activity and
body shape and lipids as the criteria. His glucose number suggests ir but
even there other endo factors might be at hand aside from level of insulin
and/or ir related to carbohydrate metobolism disorders.

Ir can be reversed in some and glucose level control is the prime step
with or without drugs aiding. When one sees the triglyceride / hdl ratio
fall, as they often do with glucose control, below a ratio of about 3 then
near normal ir is indicated. Among those with good control this is not
uncommon. Weight loss and exercise also intervene in the feedback loops
at the cell level to reverse the endo prompting of ir. A diet high in
saturated fat is also implicated in ir for those with a genetic
disposition for metabolic disorders.

x-no-archive: yes

Quoted message said:

"But you can't rule it out on that basis. I remained IR even on low carb,
many do."

Anything is possible, but as you say your ir was associated with genes and
a history of high carb intake, which his current diet is not.

Nor is my current diet, but I'm still severely IR.

Even if you

Quoted message said:

started low carb it takes a period of time for ir to drop once it has been
established.

I've been low carb for years.

His diet is a moderate carb one, just the thing to head off

Quoted message said:

metabolic syndrome, other things being equal. In a recent post he said
his lipids were normal, which also tends to rule out metabolic syndrome.

Possibly, but the ratios are most important, not the individual levels.

Slimness, low carb dieting and activity do not rule out insulin
resistance, nor will they necessarily completely reverse it.

Susan

"I would suggest both of you look at the definition of metabolic syndrome.

Clinical Identification of Metabolic Syndrome- Any three of the
following."

Yes, I forgot bp and realized it after posting. The symptoms listed wer
covered in my list. In fact, there is not universal agreement yet on what
the contents of the cluster should be and the symptoms are sliced and
diced differently by various folk. Going further, there is not even
universal agreement that there is such a thing independent of the various
diabetic, heart and plood pressure disorders that lead others to see it as
a diagnostic pattern.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Possibly, but the ratios are most important, not the individual levels.

Slimness, low carb dieting and activity do not rule out insulin
resistance, nor will they necessarily completely reverse it."

Perhaps we are at cross purposes here. My thoughts in the thread have
been with regardd to metabolic syndrome which is diagnosed as a cluster of
symptoms and having some number of that cluster diagnostic. He has only
one of that cluster which includes bmi and level of physical activity and
body shape and lipids as the criteria. His glucose number suggests ir but
even there other endo factors might be at hand aside from level of insulin
and/or ir related to carbohydrate metobolism disorders.

Ir can be reversed in some and glucose level control is the prime step
with or without drugs aiding. When one sees the triglyceride / hdl ratio
fall, as they often do with glucose control, below a ratio of about 3 then
near normal ir is indicated. Among those with good control this is not
uncommon. Weight loss and exercise also intervene in the feedback loops
at the cell level to reverse the endo prompting of ir. A diet high in
saturated fat is also implicated in ir for those with a genetic
disposition for metabolic disorders.

I would suggest both of you look at the definition of metabolic syndrome.

Clinical Identification of Metabolic Syndrome- Any three of the following.

Risk Factor

Abdominal obesity
Men greater than 40 inch waist
Women 35

Triglycerides greater than 150 mg/dl
HDL
Men less than 40 mg/dl
Women 50
Blood pressure greater 130, greater than 84 mmHg
Fasting glucose greater than 110 mg/dl

Some male patients can develop multiple metabolic risk factors when the
waist circumference is only marginally increased 37-39 inches. Some patients
may have a strong genetic contribution to insulin resistance. They should
benefit from change in life habits, similarly to men with categorical
increases in waist circumference.

Overweight and obesity are associated with insulin resistance and the
metabolic syndrome. However, the presence of abdominal obesity is more
highly correlated with the metabolic risk factors than is an elevated body
mass index (BMI). Therefore, the simple measure of waist circumference is
recommended to identify the body weight component of the metabolic syndrome.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"I would suggest both of you look at the definition of metabolic syndrome.

Clinical Identification of Metabolic Syndrome- Any three of the
following."

Yes, I forgot bp and realized it after posting. The symptoms listed wer
covered in my list. In fact, there is not universal agreement yet on what
the contents of the cluster should be and the symptoms are sliced and
diced differently by various folk. Going further, there is not even
universal agreement that there is such a thing independent of the various
diabetic, heart and plood pressure disorders that lead others to see it as
a diagnostic pattern.

I understand what you are saying. Use one definition or any definition but
you have to pick one otherwise the meaning is lost medically. You might want
to simply call it insulin resistance or altered glucose metabolism or for
those who don't agree with the syndrome as defined by the cluster then they
don't have to use that term.
To say somebody has something or not you need a definition to see if it fits
the criteria. No study of any meaning can be undertaken without such
definition.

The World Health Organization (WHO) and the National Cholesterol Education
Program (NCEP) recently proposed definitions for the metabolic syndrome.
Little is known of their validity, however. The authors assessed the
sensitivity and specificity of the definitions of the metabolic syndrome for
prevalent and incident diabetes mellitus in a Finnish population-based
cohort of middle-aged men (n = 1,005) followed for 4 years since the late
1980s. Four definitions based on the WHO and NCEP recommendations were
compared. All definitions identified persons at high risk for developing
diabetes during the 4-year follow-up (odds ratios = 5.0-8.8). The WHO
definition including waist-hip ratio > 0.90 or body mass index 30 kg/m2 was
the most sensitive (0.83 and 0.67) and least specific (0.78 and 0.80) in
detecting the 47 prevalent and 51 incident cases of diabetes. The NCEP
definition in which adiposity was defined as waist girth > 102 cm detected
only 61% of prevalent and 41% of incident diabetes, although it was the most
specific (0.89 and 0.90). The WHO definition seems valid as judged by its
relatively high sensitivity and specificity in predicting diabetes. The NCEP
definition including waist > 102 cm also identifies persons at high risk for
diabetes, but it is relatively insensitive in predicting diabetes.

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/156/11/1070

x-no-archive: yes

Quoted message said:

Perhaps we are at cross purposes here.

My only purpose is accuracy.

My thoughts in the thread have

Quoted message said:

been with regardd to metabolic syndrome which is diagnosed as a cluster of
symptoms and having some number of that cluster diagnostic. He has only
one of that cluster which includes bmi and level of physical activity and
body shape and lipids as the criteria. His glucose number suggests ir but
even there other endo factors might be at hand aside from level of insulin
and/or ir related to carbohydrate metobolism disorders.

Such as?

Quoted message said:

Ir can be reversed in some and glucose level control is the prime step
with or without drugs aiding. When one sees the triglyceride / hdl ratio
fall, as they often do with glucose control, below a ratio of about 3 then
near normal ir is indicated.

Not so, in my experience. I'm still very IR, despite having corrected
my ratios to well below 3 HDL/TGL.

Quoted message said:

Among those with good control this is not
uncommon.

Yes, I know, though many of us are still IR.

Quoted message said:

Weight loss and exercise also intervene in the feedback loops
at the cell level to reverse the endo prompting of ir. A diet high in
saturated fat is also implicated in ir for those with a genetic
disposition for metabolic disorders.

I haven't found evidence for saturated fat, unless you mean the
decreased permeability of cell walls? Jury's still out on sat fat, AFAIC.

Susan