Quad XC or TARA?

"J" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How do.

I wonder if any of you guys can help me make a choice.

I'm about to shell out on either a 2003 Quad XC (Mount Vision) or a TARA (Attack Trail) from the
Marin full-sus range.

I've always ridden hardtails and indeed have never been near full suspension before. Though I've
done a heap of review and spec surfing, I'm unable to find out, in a simple sentence, what the
real-world diffrerence is between these two different types of suspension.

The Quad XC line of Marins is a nicely done four-bar setup that has a modified travel arc...it tries
to do what VPP does, but VPP hits that ball out of the park (what modern XC suspension _doesn't_
claim to lockout pedal forces and climb like a hardtail?). Quad XC preforms a lot like Specialized
FSR bikes - not completely unresponsive to pedal forces, but a very solid all-around ride. I don't
know the exact number, but they will have around 3" of travel, and are best for fast XC without lots
of big hits.

TARA bikes have the option of changing the amount of travel between 4, 5, and 6 inches (without
tools) and the head tube angle (with allen keys). If you ride lots of different kinds of trails -
tight, fast singletrack one day and balls-out rough stuff the next - check out TARAs. If you do
small drops and other medium-to-heavy duty riding, these are better for you than a Quad XC bike.

As far as I know, Marin doesn't sell the Attack Trail as a complete bike, only a frame. Check the
build kit carefully wherever you go. The Mount Visions (regular and Pro) both come with SID
forks...if you're heavier than, say, 185, you'll want them off of there. If you go with a TARA bike
I recommend a Black Elite or a Fox TALAS fork to match the adjustability you'll have in the rear.
The Fox is much nicer - I love my Black, but am realistic about this - but much more expensive too.
So you know, the Marin Wolf Ridge is basically the Attack Trail with a Fox TALAS and an XT/LX group,
and the Rock Springs is an ATrail with the Black Elite and a Deore/LX group. So check those out.

Quoted message said:

As I say, I've read the specs 'till I'm blue in the face, but being totally inexperienced in this
arena, some pointers would be appreciated.

Some of you may (rightly) say that I should find a good dealer and he'll expain all the details,
but I hate that [censored] I'm afraid. I'd rather take my considered knowledge with me to the shop
rather than glean it from someone who's about to make the most expensive sale of the day.

You SHOULD go to a Marin dealer. Marin bikes are great bikes, and most dealers that offer them do so
because they believe in the product, not because they can move x amount more units in a month
because of the name on the downtube. In my experience, places that sell Marins are good people.

Quoted message said:

Your thoughts appreciated.

I hope so.

Chris

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Excellent response, mate. Many thanks

J said:

How do.

I wonder if any of you guys can help me make a choice.

I'm about to shell out on either a 2003 Quad XC (Mount Vision) or a TARA (Attack Trail) from the
Marin full-sus range.

I've always ridden hardtails and indeed have never been near full suspension before. Though I've
done a heap of review and spec surfing, I'm unable to find out, in a simple sentence, what the
real-world diffrerence is between these two different types of suspension.

As I say, I've read the specs 'till I'm blue in the face, but being totally inexperienced in this
arena, some pointers would be appreciated.

Some of you may (rightly) say that I should find a good dealer and he'll expain all the details,
but I hate that [censored] I'm afraid. I'd rather take my considered knowledge with me to the shop rather
than glean it from someone who's about to make the most expensive sale of the day.

Your thoughts appreciated.

Now I'm no expert, but I was considering a Marin TARA, before I decided that I would be better off
with a hardtail. I did some research, and the general consensus seems to be that the TARA range is
at the end of it's life for two reasons:

1) It's a pretty old single-pivot design, and like all single pivots, will suffer from suspension
movement induced by pedalling.
2) Suspension development has moved on, and there are now other adjustable systems on the market
that perform better (Fox TALAS for example)

As I say, I'm no expert, and I have not ever ridden one of these, but last months "Mountain Bike
Rider" contained a review on budget FS bikes, and a comparison of Marin TARA with equivalent systems
from Specialized and Trek. What I realised after looking at this, was that cheap FS bikes are all
compromised in some way, and TARA is old technology.

Hope that helps - I would say go for the Quad XC if you want FS.

Regards,

Colin Swan Nildram Operations

In article <[email hidden]>, Colin Swan <colin AT nildram DOT
net> says...

Quoted message said:

J said:

How do.

I wonder if any of you guys can help me make a choice.

I'm about to shell out on either a 2003 Quad XC (Mount Vision) or a TARA (Attack Trail) from the
Marin full-sus range.

I've always ridden hardtails and indeed have never been near full suspension before. Though I've
done a heap of review and spec surfing, I'm unable to find out, in a simple sentence, what the
real-world diffrerence is between these two different types of suspension.

As I say, I've read the specs 'till I'm blue in the face, but being totally inexperienced in this
arena, some pointers would be appreciated.

Some of you may (rightly) say that I should find a good dealer and he'll expain all the details,
but I hate that [censored] I'm afraid. I'd rather take my considered knowledge with me to the shop
rather than glean it from someone who's about to make the most expensive sale of the day.

Your thoughts appreciated.

Now I'm no expert, but I was considering a Marin TARA, before I decided that I would be better off
with a hardtail. I did some research, and the general consensus seems to be that the TARA range is
at the end of it's life for two reasons:

1) It's a pretty old single-pivot design, and like all single pivots, will suffer from suspension
movement induced by pedalling.
2) Suspension development has moved on, and there are now other adjustable systems on the market
that perform better (Fox TALAS for example)

As I say, I'm no expert, and I have not ever ridden one of these, but last months "Mountain Bike
Rider" contained a review on budget FS bikes, and a comparison of Marin TARA with equivalent
systems from Specialized and Trek. What I realised after looking at this, was that cheap FS bikes
are all compromised in some way, and TARA is old technology.

Hope that helps - I would say go for the Quad XC if you want FS.

Regards,

Colin Swan Nildram Operations

Thanks for that Colin.

I kinda had that feeling myself regarding the TARA, so thanks for the clarification.

J <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

How do.

I wonder if any of you guys can help me make a choice.

I'm about to shell out on either a 2003 Quad XC (Mount Vision) or a TARA (Attack Trail) from the
Marin full-sus range.

[rest of post snipped]

J <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

How do.

I wonder if any of you guys can help me make a choice.

I'm about to shell out on either a 2003 Quad XC (Mount Vision) or a TARA (Attack Trail) from the
Marin full-sus range.

[rest of post snipped]

Ooops, I misclicked, and *may* have posted twice - oh well.

I was in the same situation. I won't speak to the Quad XC, except as a basis of comparison.

You'll want an adjustable-travel fork to go with the TARA, so you can match f/r travel. That's
additional expense over the fixed-travel-length Quad XC. Pedal bob is more about pedalling technique
than anything else. All the complicated multi-pivot designs do is add weight and complexity and cost
to help the rider avoid learning how to pedal. BUT, since you need to buy a shock anyway, why not
buy a 5th Element coil or air shock? Sure, they're expensive, but the platform valving can all but
eliminate bob (who is this "Bob" and why does everyone hate him so?) but still have excellent bump
absorption. Romic does the same thing. So, you have weight savings and simplicity with a
single-pivot design, get your anti-bob with a good shock, and have adjustable travel. And the Quad
XC will still bob a little, no matter what. AND the TARA frame is cheaper! What's not to like?

I almost did the Marin TARA. In the end, simplicity won out, and I went for a zero-pivot
full-suspension design. Works great, and I don't regret it for a moment. But the Marin TARA was a
very close second.

Good luck, and don't be a stranger,

Spider

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

J <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

How do.

I wonder if any of you guys can help me make a choice.

I'm about to shell out on either a 2003 Quad XC (Mount Vision) or a TARA (Attack Trail) from the
Marin full-sus range.

[rest of post snipped]

Ooops, I misclicked, and *may* have posted twice - oh well.

I was in the same situation. I won't speak to the Quad XC, except as a basis of comparison.

You'll want an adjustable-travel fork to go with the TARA, so you can match f/r travel. That's
additional expense over the fixed-travel-length Quad XC. Pedal bob is more about pedalling
technique than anything else. All the complicated multi-pivot designs do is add weight and
complexity and cost to help the rider avoid learning how to pedal. BUT, since you need to buy a
shock anyway, why not buy a 5th Element coil or air shock? Sure, they're expensive, but the
platform valving can all but eliminate bob (who is this "Bob" and why does everyone hate him so?)
but still have excellent bump absorption. Romic does the same thing. So, you have weight savings
and simplicity with a single-pivot design, get your anti-bob with a good shock, and have
adjustable travel. And the Quad XC will still bob a little, no matter what. AND the TARA frame is
cheaper! What's not to like?

I almost did the Marin TARA. In the end, simplicity won out, and I went for a zero-pivot
full-suspension design. Works great, and I don't regret it for a moment. But the Marin TARA was a
very close second.

Good luck, and don't be a stranger,

Spider

There are some excellent ideas in there, mate. Thanks.

I'd just about come down on the side of the Quad, but having just spent an hour in the showroom
salivating over the top TARA model (Attack Trail) and now listening to your suggestions, I'm finding
the choice harder than ever!

J said...

Quoted message said:

I'd just about come down on the side of the Quad, but having just spent an hour in the showroom
salivating over the top TARA model (Attack Trail) and now listening to your suggestions, I'm
finding the choice harder than ever!

The Tara looks a lot like the Titus Loco-Moto, which I own and love. Don't be put off by the single
pivot. My previous FS bike was a four pivot and when I broke it, I bought the Loco-Moto. The only
obvious difference was that with the single pivot you could feel the slight shortening of the
wheelbase when the suspension compressed. With a four pivot design, the suspension follows a larger
arc, so there is a difference in feel. I quickly forgot about that small difference, because it
wasn't a problem in functionality. Other shortcomings attributed to single pivots, like brake jack,
I have so far found to be a non-issue. Pedal bob is going to be a problem with any active
suspension. It can only be dealt with by making the suspension less active as with the Specialized
Brain shock, the Giant NRS approach, stable platform shocks, lock-outs, or the kluge of cranking the
rebound compression.

Single pivot suspensions just make a lot of sense. They are far more economical to buy and there is
less to maintain and less to go wrong. I read a quote from Tony Ellsworth where he said that he
wouldn't make a $1700 four pivot frame, because an $1100 single pivot frame would perform better.
His four pivot frames cost ~$2000, and I won't take the time to point out that there are some damn
nice four pivot frames for less than $1700 (oops I just did), but one interpretation we could give
to this quote is that the difference in performance between single and four pivot suspensions isn't
necessarily as big as the price difference. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you will get some solid
benefits from a first class four pivot bike, but I was attracted by the simplicity and relative cost
effectiveness of the Loco-Moto's single pivot and it works so well that the thought of spending
hundreds more just seems ridiculous.