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Quad Dipsea Report

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General fitness, health and nutrition
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1 December 2004
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6 December 2004
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Dan Stumpus
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  1. 2004 Quad Dipsea

    This 28.4 mile race is a double out-and-back from a redwood forest park in
    Mill Valley to Stinson Beach.
    Each tof the four 7.1 mile trips has two climbs, a 700 footer from Mill
    valley, then down, then a 1400 foot baby, before heading down to the beach.
    There's a total of 9200' of climb.

    So far it sounds almost pedestrian, but it's quite a bit more interesting.
    There are a total of 2600 steps in the race, something I'd never had to deal
    with. There aren't any long step sections of trail around here in L.A. so I
    just did a few long runs on 11% grades, alternating ups and downs every
    couple of miles to simulate the actual course.

    As usual, I researched prior years' splits, and most people died pretty hard
    on the last two legs. I decided to set a goal of 5:30 based on a woman I
    met who finished a few minutes ahead of me on a recent 50 mile race, and who
    ran this race last year.

    So I set my sights on finishing the first leg in 1:20 - 1:24, and/or put
    myself in about 80th place at the first turnaround at the beach. If things
    worked out, I'd finish about 35-40th overall.

    It had rained throughout the night, but the Lord giveth us a sunny day.
    Unfortunately, he taketh away with a somewhat muddy course.

    I positioned myself about a third of the way back at the start, and shuffled
    off to the first set of stairs. The first climb is mostly steps, with maybe
    3/8 mile of paved streets. So I walked up the steps with the crowd, trying
    to jostle myself in about 80th place. After reaching the first crest, it
    was time to go downhill...more steps! Of course, the whipper-snappers (I'm
    53) blasted by me, but I was content to run as fast as I could without
    endangering myself. There were probably only 2 miles of downhill on each
    leg where I could stretch my stride out without worrying about a faceplant.
    Otherwise pace was limited by climbing or the evil triumvirate of mud,
    rocks, and roots.

    There's never a dull moment on this course -- I thought I'd get bored with
    it, but it kept my attention all the way. First you had the steps -- going
    down steep, slick stone steps in a dark redwood and fern grotto with 3 or 4
    runners breathing down your neck really focuses the mind! Going up was an
    exercise in going as fast as I could without leg burn. I learned that
    "four-wheeling", using the palms of both hands to push down on the knee
    while climbing steps is a real improvement on just striding up

    Then there were the muddy downhills with roots and rocks. Finally, the most
    enjoyable and runnable part of the course, a 1.5 mile run down to the beach,
    with sparkling views of the crystal sea.

    At the first turn-around, I counted the runners heading back to see if I had
    paced myself properly, and counted 84 runners ahead of me. My time was
    1:22, right on target. Now it was a game of maintaining this pace for the
    remaining three legs, and hopefully passing lots of folks the rest of the
    way. I was pretty successful at passing folks, but slowed about 15 minutes
    in the last 14 miles, anyway. I should have gone out a couple of minutes
    slower.

    It was a bit frustrating because I would typically outclimb folks on the
    uphills and steps, and move ahead on the runnable downs, but I'd have folks
    (mostly youngsters) blasting by on the technical downhills (which were 30%
    of the course). My podiatrist was right: the first thing that goes is
    downhill speed.

    Coming out of the last turn around for the final 7.1 mile trip back to the
    finish I felt strong, passing people effortlessly on the uphills. Then came
    the inevitable challenges: first, my medial quad cramped (while I was
    feeling great!). I immediately drank all the gu2o I had, and popped a
    Succeed tab. I went reeeeaaalll slow for a few minutes on the steps, and
    like magic, the cramps stopped. But I needed more water, and there was at
    least 20 minutes until the next aid station.

    Right about then, a guy I was catching on an uphill started squirting out
    his go2o! I said "STOP! Can I drink that?" And he gave it to me and I
    gratefully drank 3/4 of a bottle in about a minute, and popped another
    Succeed. That vanquished cramps for the rest of the run. That was a close
    call.

    Next, with about 4 miles to go, the inside of my ankles started really
    hurting on every step of downhill. I'd sprained both ankles in May, but
    they hadn't given me any trouble recently. Well, the ankle gods came back
    with a vengeance -- this part of the course was a narrow single track with a
    "V" profile, which was perfectly suited to hurt my not-totally-healed
    ankles. Pain makes cowards of us all. So I lost 4-5 minutes until,
    somewhat miraculously, they stopped hurting after 20-30 minutes.

    I was able to finish the race pretty strongly. I was able to run all the
    uphills but the steps. I had the satisfaction of passing younger runners on
    the uphills, then looked on helplessly as they blasted by me down slippery
    steps and downhill mud.

    I finished tired, but not spent -- being mostly limited by treacherous
    downhills and slick steps, and possibly by being a mite too conservative on
    the climbs and runnable descents.

    I finished in 5:44, off my 5:30 goal, and my last split (affected by cramps
    and ankles) was 11 minutes slower than my first. Nevertheless, I had worked
    my way up from 85th at 7 miles to 54th out of about 230 starters. I
    finished 5th out of about 30 50+ men. As usual in the bay area, a very
    strong field. The top 20% of the 50 year olds were at least 35:00 10k
    runners in their prime. The 2nd and 3rd place runners in the Angeles Crest
    100 miler finished 6th and 11th respectively.

    Despite the difficulty, I loved the course. Redwood forests, fern grottos,
    spectacular views, quaint stone steps, wide open, "sound of music"
    downhills, how can I complain?

    -- Dan

  2. In article <[email hidden]>, Dan

    Stumpus said:

    2004 Quad Dipsea

    Dan,

    Great report.

    Congratulations on a race well run.

    In health and on the run,
    Ozzie Gontang
    Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975
    Maintainer - rec.running FAQ
    http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/
    Mindful Running:
    http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp

  3. Having run the dipsea course before, your report brings it back to me. I
    can't imagine those steps with so many people racing near me though, a bit
    claustrophobic I would think. Sounds like you made a good race out of it and
    had fun too, congratulations.

    -Tony

  4. "Dan Stumpus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    2004 Quad Dipsea

    This 28.4 mile race is a double out-and-back from a redwood forest
    park in
    Mill Valley to Stinson Beach.

    Great report!!! Any babes to take you mind off the steps? 🙂

    Quoted message said:

    As usual, I researched prior years' splits, and most people died
    pretty hard
    on the last two legs.

    I think that's typical of most endurance races and why we know how
    important it is to not go out too hard. 😉

    Quoted message said:

    I decided to set a goal of 5:30 based on a woman I
    met who finished a few minutes ahead of me on a recent 50 mile race,
    and who
    ran this race last year.

    You dirty old man. No men to judge your times? 🙂

    Quoted message said:

    It was a bit frustrating because I would typically outclimb folks on
    the
    uphills and steps, and move ahead on the runnable downs, but I'd have
    folks
    (mostly youngsters) blasting by on the technical downhills (which were
    30%
    of the course). My podiatrist was right: the first thing that goes
    is
    downhill speed.

    I agree but not so much that we can't turn over our legs but more of
    that little guy on our shoulder that whispers, if you fall you gonna be
    in a cast'.

    Quoted message said:

    Coming out of the last turn around for the final 7.1 mile trip back to
    the
    finish I felt strong, passing people effortlessly on the uphills.
    Then came
    the inevitable challenges: first, my medial quad cramped (while I was
    feeling great!). I immediately drank all the gu2o I had, and popped a
    Succeed tab. I went reeeeaaalll slow for a few minutes on the steps,
    and
    like magic, the cramps stopped. But I needed more water, and there
    was at
    least 20 minutes until the next aid station.

    Right about then, a guy I was catching on an uphill started squirting
    out
    his go2o! I said "STOP! Can I drink that?" And he gave it to me and
    I
    gratefully drank 3/4 of a bottle in about a minute, and popped another
    Succeed. That vanquished cramps for the rest of the run. That was a
    close
    call.

    Phew! While the cramps got your attention, I wonder how much you were
    slowing being mildly dehydrated and salt deficient? I hope you
    practiced this in training or else some people will you hell for race
    day modifications. 🙂 Fast thinking by the way!!!

    Quoted message said:

    I was able to finish the race pretty strongly. I was able to run all
    the
    uphills but the steps. I had the satisfaction of passing younger
    runners on
    the uphills, then looked on helplessly as they blasted by me down
    slippery
    steps and downhill mud.

    If the race was longer the young bucks usually bite the bullet - you
    pass them on the an up and never see them again.

    Quoted message said:

    I finished tired, but not spent -- being mostly limited by treacherous
    downhills and slick steps, and possibly by being a mite too
    conservative on
    the climbs and runnable descents.

    Damn over-achiever! I'll take the position that if you had gone faster
    you may still be out there. 😉

    Quoted message said:

    Despite the difficulty, I loved the course. Redwood forests, fern
    grottos,
    spectacular views, quaint stone steps, wide open, "sound of music"
    downhills, how can I complain?

    Amen! Live to do it again. How about thew 65 yeard old buzzard that
    finished in 5:26:50 - gives us hope.

    -DougF

  5. Way to go, old man. <g>

    Mike Tennent
    "IronPenguin"

  6. Tony said:

    Having run the dipsea course before, your report brings it back to
    me. I can't imagine those steps with so many people racing near me
    though, a bit claustrophobic I would think.

    I had just passed a train of four guys -- there were generally long gaps
    between runners by that time. Funny how people often run in little clumps.

    Quoted message said:

    Sounds like you made a good race out of it and had fun too,


    congratulations.

    Thanks.

  7. Doug Freese said:

    Great report!!! Any babes to take you mind off the steps? 🙂

    Not many -- there were three that I caught at various points (and
    unchivalrously passed). The female winner was as cute as a button, and gave
    me a big smile every time I gave her a "way to go!" as we passed. I'm
    certain that took 5 minutes off my time.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I decided to set a goal of 5:30 based on a woman I
    met who finished a few minutes ahead of me on a recent 50 mile race,
    and who ran this race last year.

    You dirty old man. No men to judge your times? 🙂

    Women usually run smarter ultras (as we know) so I stuck with Florencia.

    Quoted message said:

    I agree but not so much that we can't turn over our legs but more of
    that little guy on our shoulder that whispers, if you fall you gonna
    be in a cast'.

    You got it. As a young tough, it never crossed my mind that I might fall.
    Who is that little guy, anyway?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    ... and I gratefully drank 3/4 of a bottle in about a minute, and popped
    another Succeed. That vanquished cramps for the rest of the run.
    That was a close call.

    Phew! While the cramps got your attention, I wonder how much you were
    slowing being mildly dehydrated and salt deficient?

    Yeah, I know that I cramp when down 5-6 lbs (5-6 pints), so just because I
    drank enough to put me above the cramp threshold, I knew I needed a couple
    of lbs more water, and I drank everything I could to get back into balance
    (and even took a scoop of salt crystals when my 9 Succeeds ran out).

    Quoted message said:

    I hope you
    practiced this in training or else some people will you hell for race
    day modifications. 🙂

    Yeah, I hope nobody's looking!

    Quoted message said:

    Fast thinking by the way!!!

    I was thinking "Geez, if I only had more water!", and just then I saw him
    getting rid of his overstock. A Godsend.

    Quoted message said:

    If the race was longer the young bucks usually bite the bullet - you
    pass them on the an up and never see them again.

    Yeah, I could have run another leg at the same intensity, and I'm sure they
    were pretty much spent.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I finished tired, but not spent -- being mostly limited by
    treacherous downhills and slick steps, and possibly by being a mite
    too conservative on
    the climbs and runnable descents.

    Damn over-achiever! I'll take the position that if you had gone faster
    you may still be out there.

    Some much faster runners ran no faster than me on the last leg, for that
    reason.

    Quoted message said:

    Amen! Live to do it again. How about thew 65 yeard old buzzard that
    finished in 5:26:50 - gives us hope.

    He probably ran a 29:00 10k in his youth...most of these guys were quite
    elite in their heyday. Some are elite now: Mike Sweeney, the first 50+ in
    this race, just won the Rio Del Lago 100 miler and set a new course record.

    Now it's time to think about my next race (Catalina 50m), and how I'm gonna
    change my training to get some legspeed back...

    Regards,

    Dan

  8. Dan Stumpus said:

    2004 Quad Dipsea

    Quoted message said:

    I finished in 5:44, off my 5:30 goal, and my last split (affected by cramps
    and ankles) was 11 minutes slower than my first. Nevertheless, I had worked
    my way up from 85th at 7 miles to 54th out of about 230 starters. I
    finished 5th out of about 30 50+ men. As usual in the bay area, a very
    strong field. The top 20% of the 50 year olds were at least 35:00 10k
    runners in their prime. The 2nd and 3rd place runners in the Angeles Crest
    100 miler finished 6th and 11th respectively.

    Welcome back to NorCal :-) Still, not bad for a "rookie."

    Quoted message said:

    Despite the difficulty, I loved the course. Redwood forests, fern grottos,
    spectacular views, quaint stone steps, wide open, "sound of music"
    downhills, how can I complain?

    Based on your time, you probably came zooming by me 10 minutes out of
    Cardiac on the way to the finish. Next year, I expect you to be to the
    top of the stairs!

    --
    - The Trailrunner - AKA Sweep

    Anti-Spam Alert: If you wish to reply, cut the *BS*

    Trails of the Diablo Valley
    *Running - Hiking - Nature*
    http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/trails/6016/

  9. Quoted message said:

    Funny how people often run in little clumps.

    Just like turds being flushed.

  10. Nice report, Dan. As a past participant of this event I can second your
    feeling of the beauty of the course...and the toughness of it, and the
    competition, as well.

    Mike C

    Quoted message said:

    Reply-To: "Dan Stumpus"

    Quoted message said:

    2004 Quad Dipsea

    This 28.4 mile race is a double out-and-back from a redwood forest park in
    Mill Valley to Stinson Beach.
    Each tof the four 7.1 mile trips has two climbs, a 700 footer from Mill
    valley, then down, then a 1400 foot baby, before heading down to the beach.
    There's a total of 9200' of climb.

    So far it sounds almost pedestrian, but it's quite a bit more interesting.
    There are a total of 2600 steps in the race, something I'd never had to deal
    with. There aren't any long step sections of trail around here in L.A. so I
    just did a few long runs on 11% grades, alternating ups and downs every
    couple of miles to simulate the actual course.

    As usual, I researched prior years' splits, and most people died pretty hard
    on the last two legs. I decided to set a goal of 5:30 based on a woman I
    met who finished a few minutes ahead of me on a recent 50 mile race, and who
    ran this race last year.

    So I set my sights on finishing the first leg in 1:20 - 1:24, and/or put
    myself in about 80th place at the first turnaround at the beach. If things
    worked out, I'd finish about 35-40th overall.

    It had rained throughout the night, but the Lord giveth us a sunny day.
    Unfortunately, he taketh away with a somewhat muddy course.

    I positioned myself about a third of the way back at the start, and shuffled
    off to the first set of stairs. The first climb is mostly steps, with maybe
    3/8 mile of paved streets. So I walked up the steps with the crowd, trying
    to jostle myself in about 80th place. After reaching the first crest, it
    was time to go downhill...more steps! Of course, the whipper-snappers (I'm
    53) blasted by me, but I was content to run as fast as I could without
    endangering myself. There were probably only 2 miles of downhill on each
    leg where I could stretch my stride out without worrying about a faceplant.
    Otherwise pace was limited by climbing or the evil triumvirate of mud,
    rocks, and roots.

    There's never a dull moment on this course -- I thought I'd get bored with
    it, but it kept my attention all the way. First you had the steps -- going
    down steep, slick stone steps in a dark redwood and fern grotto with 3 or 4
    runners breathing down your neck really focuses the mind! Going up was an
    exercise in going as fast as I could without leg burn. I learned that
    "four-wheeling", using the palms of both hands to push down on the knee
    while climbing steps is a real improvement on just striding up

    Then there were the muddy downhills with roots and rocks. Finally, the most
    enjoyable and runnable part of the course, a 1.5 mile run down to the beach,
    with sparkling views of the crystal sea.

    At the first turn-around, I counted the runners heading back to see if I had
    paced myself properly, and counted 84 runners ahead of me. My time was
    1:22, right on target. Now it was a game of maintaining this pace for the
    remaining three legs, and hopefully passing lots of folks the rest of the
    way. I was pretty successful at passing folks, but slowed about 15 minutes
    in the last 14 miles, anyway. I should have gone out a couple of minutes
    slower.

    It was a bit frustrating because I would typically outclimb folks on the
    uphills and steps, and move ahead on the runnable downs, but I'd have folks
    (mostly youngsters) blasting by on the technical downhills (which were 30%
    of the course). My podiatrist was right: the first thing that goes is
    downhill speed.

    Coming out of the last turn around for the final 7.1 mile trip back to the
    finish I felt strong, passing people effortlessly on the uphills. Then came
    the inevitable challenges: first, my medial quad cramped (while I was
    feeling great!). I immediately drank all the gu2o I had, and popped a
    Succeed tab. I went reeeeaaalll slow for a few minutes on the steps, and
    like magic, the cramps stopped. But I needed more water, and there was at
    least 20 minutes until the next aid station.

    Right about then, a guy I was catching on an uphill started squirting out
    his go2o! I said "STOP! Can I drink that?" And he gave it to me and I
    gratefully drank 3/4 of a bottle in about a minute, and popped another
    Succeed. That vanquished cramps for the rest of the run. That was a close
    call.

    Next, with about 4 miles to go, the inside of my ankles started really
    hurting on every step of downhill. I'd sprained both ankles in May, but
    they hadn't given me any trouble recently. Well, the ankle gods came back
    with a vengeance -- this part of the course was a narrow single track with a
    "V" profile, which was perfectly suited to hurt my not-totally-healed
    ankles. Pain makes cowards of us all. So I lost 4-5 minutes until,
    somewhat miraculously, they stopped hurting after 20-30 minutes.

    I was able to finish the race pretty strongly. I was able to run all the
    uphills but the steps. I had the satisfaction of passing younger runners on
    the uphills, then looked on helplessly as they blasted by me down slippery
    steps and downhill mud.

    I finished tired, but not spent -- being mostly limited by treacherous
    downhills and slick steps, and possibly by being a mite too conservative on
    the climbs and runnable descents.

    I finished in 5:44, off my 5:30 goal, and my last split (affected by cramps
    and ankles) was 11 minutes slower than my first. Nevertheless, I had worked
    my way up from 85th at 7 miles to 54th out of about 230 starters. I
    finished 5th out of about 30 50+ men. As usual in the bay area, a very
    strong field. The top 20% of the 50 year olds were at least 35:00 10k
    runners in their prime. The 2nd and 3rd place runners in the Angeles Crest
    100 miler finished 6th and 11th respectively.

    Despite the difficulty, I loved the course. Redwood forests, fern grottos,
    spectacular views, quaint stone steps, wide open, "sound of music"
    downhills, how can I complain?

    -- Dan

  11. "Dan Stumpus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:

    2004 Quad Dipsea

    This 28.4 mile race is a double out-and-back from a redwood forest park in
    Mill Valley to Stinson Beach.


    <snip>

    Amazing race and report, Dan. Loved reading it.

    cheers,
    --
    David (in Hamilton ON)
    www.absolutelyaccurate.com
    www.allfalldown.org

  12. Great race and report, Dan. Thanks.

    I especially appreciate your details on pace planning and execution, and
    it's
    interesting that even though you are careful about hydration and
    salt-replenishment,
    you still managed to get into difficulties.

    Anthony.

  13. Dan Stumpus said:

    2004 Quad Dipsea

    This 28.4 mile race is a double out-and-back from a redwood forest park in
    Mill Valley to Stinson Beach.

    <excellent race report snipped>

    Really nice race report and congratulations on a great race! You sure
    like planning things out in detail, don't you (regarding splits)? 😉

    Just curious, had you not taken enough bottles or cb with you that you
    ran out of fluids?

    Quoted message said:


    Despite the difficulty, I loved the course. Redwood forests, fern grottos,
    spectacular views, quaint stone steps, wide open, "sound of music"
    downhills, how can I complain?

    That's what makes trail running so much fun 🙂

    Congratulations again.

    Dot

    --
    The goal is training and adaptation, not destruction and injury.
    - John Hardy
    http://www.mountainrunning.coolrunning.com.au/misc/training.shtml

  14. Very Big Congrats Dan! What a great description of the race. I used to
    live up in Sonoma County and worked in Marin, and I loved that area a
    lot. Lots of good memories. Very sorry the cramps and ankle pain hit,
    though you had a good time despite it! And placed well. I was never
    brave enough to do that one!

    Teresa in AZ

    Dan Stumpus said:

    2004 Quad Dipsea

    This 28.4 mile race is a double out-and-back from a redwood forest park in
    Mill Valley to Stinson Beach.
    Each tof the four 7.1 mile trips has two climbs, a 700 footer from Mill
    valley, then down, then a 1400 foot baby, before heading down to the beach.
    There's a total of 9200' of climb.

    So far it sounds almost pedestrian, but it's quite a bit more interesting.
    There are a total of 2600 steps in the race, something I'd never had to deal
    with. There aren't any long step sections of trail around here in L.A. so I
    just did a few long runs on 11% grades, alternating ups and downs every
    couple of miles to simulate the actual course.

    As usual, I researched prior years' splits, and most people died pretty hard
    on the last two legs. I decided to set a goal of 5:30 based on a woman I
    met who finished a few minutes ahead of me on a recent 50 mile race, and who
    ran this race last year.

    So I set my sights on finishing the first leg in 1:20 - 1:24, and/or put
    myself in about 80th place at the first turnaround at the beach. If things
    worked out, I'd finish about 35-40th overall.

    It had rained throughout the night, but the Lord giveth us a sunny day.
    Unfortunately, he taketh away with a somewhat muddy course.

    I positioned myself about a third of the way back at the start, and shuffled
    off to the first set of stairs. The first climb is mostly steps, with maybe
    3/8 mile of paved streets. So I walked up the steps with the crowd, trying
    to jostle myself in about 80th place. After reaching the first crest, it
    was time to go downhill...more steps! Of course, the whipper-snappers (I'm
    53) blasted by me, but I was content to run as fast as I could without
    endangering myself. There were probably only 2 miles of downhill on each
    leg where I could stretch my stride out without worrying about a faceplant.
    Otherwise pace was limited by climbing or the evil triumvirate of mud,
    rocks, and roots.

    There's never a dull moment on this course -- I thought I'd get bored with
    it, but it kept my attention all the way. First you had the steps -- going
    down steep, slick stone steps in a dark redwood and fern grotto with 3 or 4
    runners breathing down your neck really focuses the mind! Going up was an
    exercise in going as fast as I could without leg burn. I learned that
    "four-wheeling", using the palms of both hands to push down on the knee
    while climbing steps is a real improvement on just striding up

    Then there were the muddy downhills with roots and rocks. Finally, the most
    enjoyable and runnable part of the course, a 1.5 mile run down to the beach,
    with sparkling views of the crystal sea.

    At the first turn-around, I counted the runners heading back to see if I had
    paced myself properly, and counted 84 runners ahead of me. My time was
    1:22, right on target. Now it was a game of maintaining this pace for the
    remaining three legs, and hopefully passing lots of folks the rest of the
    way. I was pretty successful at passing folks, but slowed about 15 minutes
    in the last 14 miles, anyway. I should have gone out a couple of minutes
    slower.

    It was a bit frustrating because I would typically outclimb folks on the
    uphills and steps, and move ahead on the runnable downs, but I'd have folks
    (mostly youngsters) blasting by on the technical downhills (which were 30%
    of the course). My podiatrist was right: the first thing that goes is
    downhill speed.

    Coming out of the last turn around for the final 7.1 mile trip back to the
    finish I felt strong, passing people effortlessly on the uphills. Then came
    the inevitable challenges: first, my medial quad cramped (while I was
    feeling great!). I immediately drank all the gu2o I had, and popped a
    Succeed tab. I went reeeeaaalll slow for a few minutes on the steps, and
    like magic, the cramps stopped. But I needed more water, and there was at
    least 20 minutes until the next aid station.

    Right about then, a guy I was catching on an uphill started squirting out
    his go2o! I said "STOP! Can I drink that?" And he gave it to me and I
    gratefully drank 3/4 of a bottle in about a minute, and popped another
    Succeed. That vanquished cramps for the rest of the run. That was a close
    call.

    Next, with about 4 miles to go, the inside of my ankles started really
    hurting on every step of downhill. I'd sprained both ankles in May, but
    they hadn't given me any trouble recently. Well, the ankle gods came back
    with a vengeance -- this part of the course was a narrow single track with a
    "V" profile, which was perfectly suited to hurt my not-totally-healed
    ankles. Pain makes cowards of us all. So I lost 4-5 minutes until,
    somewhat miraculously, they stopped hurting after 20-30 minutes.

    I was able to finish the race pretty strongly. I was able to run all the
    uphills but the steps. I had the satisfaction of passing younger runners on
    the uphills, then looked on helplessly as they blasted by me down slippery
    steps and downhill mud.

    I finished tired, but not spent -- being mostly limited by treacherous
    downhills and slick steps, and possibly by being a mite too conservative on
    the climbs and runnable descents.

    I finished in 5:44, off my 5:30 goal, and my last split (affected by cramps
    and ankles) was 11 minutes slower than my first. Nevertheless, I had worked
    my way up from 85th at 7 miles to 54th out of about 230 starters. I
    finished 5th out of about 30 50+ men. As usual in the bay area, a very
    strong field. The top 20% of the 50 year olds were at least 35:00 10k
    runners in their prime. The 2nd and 3rd place runners in the Angeles Crest
    100 miler finished 6th and 11th respectively.

    Despite the difficulty, I loved the course. Redwood forests, fern grottos,
    spectacular views, quaint stone steps, wide open, "sound of music"
    downhills, how can I complain?

    -- Dan

  15. Anthony said:

    Great race and report, Dan. Thanks.

    I especially appreciate your details on pace planning and execution,
    and it's
    interesting that even though you are careful about hydration and
    salt-replenishment, you still managed to get into difficulties.

    When you're out there in the sun for 5+ hours, it's easy to get
    depleted/dehydrated.
    The trick is knowing what to do when things go wrong, and something almost
    always goes awry in an ultra.

    -- Dan

  16. Dot said:

    Really nice race report and congratulations on a great race! You sure
    like planning things out in detail, don't you (regarding splits)? 😉

    Hey, if there's information, I'll use it! I typically look at what others
    of similar ability have done, study the splits, and come up with a game
    plan...

    Quoted message said:

    Just curious, had you not taken enough bottles or cb with you that you
    ran out of fluids?

    No, I carried two bottles. Aid was about every 2.5 miles, and I drank 30 oz
    the first hour and about 40oz/hour after that. That turned out not to be
    enough, but I was able to tank up and fix the problem.

    Quoted message said:

    Congratulations again.

    Thanks.

  17. The Trailrunner said:

    Welcome back to NorCal :-) Still, not bad for a "rookie."

    I'm gonna be back for this one, for sure.

    Quoted message said:

    Based on your time, you probably came zooming by me 10 minutes out of
    Cardiac on the way to the finish. Next year, I expect you to be to the
    top of the stairs!

    I give up. Who are you? (you can email me if you're shy on usenet)

    Regards,

    Dan

  18. "Dan Stumpus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Despite the difficulty, I loved the course. Redwood forests, fern
    grottos,
    spectacular views, quaint stone steps, wide open, "sound of music"
    downhills, how can I complain?

    Thanks for the report. You and the other trail runners have really made me
    reconsider doing any road races next year. Maybe I'll just stick to the
    trails since I run for the atmosphere and enjoyment and will never be
    competitive. There happens to be a trail not all that far from here that
    goes way up a hill and alternates trail with a lot of stairs that I ran up
    once this summer...

    Jenn

  19. << > Despite the difficulty, I loved the course. Redwood forests, fern

    Quoted message said:

    grottos,
    spectacular views, quaint stone steps, wide open, "sound of music"
    downhills, how can I complain? >>

    ....just knock,
    Seven Doors Away...

    _______
    Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
    <A
    HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
    s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

  20. Late post, but nevertheless, congrats on an awesome time. I've hiked that
    course many times and it's a killer. You did great!

    Martha

    "Dan Stumpus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    2004 Quad Dipsea

    This 28.4 mile race is a double out-and-back from a redwood forest park in
    Mill Valley to Stinson Beach.
    Each tof the four 7.1 mile trips has two climbs, a 700 footer from Mill
    valley, then down, then a 1400 foot baby, before heading down to the


    beach.

    Quoted message said:

    There's a total of 9200' of climb.

    So far it sounds almost pedestrian, but it's quite a bit more interesting.
    There are a total of 2600 steps in the race, something I'd never had to


    deal

    Quoted message said:

    with. There aren't any long step sections of trail around here in L.A. so


    I

    Quoted message said:

    just did a few long runs on 11% grades, alternating ups and downs every
    couple of miles to simulate the actual course.

    As usual, I researched prior years' splits, and most people died pretty


    hard

    Quoted message said:

    on the last two legs. I decided to set a goal of 5:30 based on a woman I
    met who finished a few minutes ahead of me on a recent 50 mile race, and


    who

    Quoted message said:

    ran this race last year.

    So I set my sights on finishing the first leg in 1:20 - 1:24, and/or put
    myself in about 80th place at the first turnaround at the beach. If


    things

    Quoted message said:

    worked out, I'd finish about 35-40th overall.

    It had rained throughout the night, but the Lord giveth us a sunny day.
    Unfortunately, he taketh away with a somewhat muddy course.

    I positioned myself about a third of the way back at the start, and


    shuffled

    Quoted message said:

    off to the first set of stairs. The first climb is mostly steps, with


    maybe

    Quoted message said:

    3/8 mile of paved streets. So I walked up the steps with the crowd,


    trying

    Quoted message said:

    to jostle myself in about 80th place. After reaching the first crest, it
    was time to go downhill...more steps! Of course, the whipper-snappers


    (I'm

    Quoted message said:

    53) blasted by me, but I was content to run as fast as I could without
    endangering myself. There were probably only 2 miles of downhill on each
    leg where I could stretch my stride out without worrying about a


    faceplant.

    Quoted message said:

    Otherwise pace was limited by climbing or the evil triumvirate of mud,
    rocks, and roots.

    There's never a dull moment on this course -- I thought I'd get bored with
    it, but it kept my attention all the way. First you had the steps --


    going

    Quoted message said:

    down steep, slick stone steps in a dark redwood and fern grotto with 3 or


    4

    Quoted message said:

    runners breathing down your neck really focuses the mind! Going up was an
    exercise in going as fast as I could without leg burn. I learned that
    "four-wheeling", using the palms of both hands to push down on the knee
    while climbing steps is a real improvement on just striding up

    Then there were the muddy downhills with roots and rocks. Finally, the


    most

    Quoted message said:

    enjoyable and runnable part of the course, a 1.5 mile run down to the


    beach,

    Quoted message said:

    with sparkling views of the crystal sea.

    At the first turn-around, I counted the runners heading back to see if I


    had

    Quoted message said:

    paced myself properly, and counted 84 runners ahead of me. My time was
    1:22, right on target. Now it was a game of maintaining this pace for the
    remaining three legs, and hopefully passing lots of folks the rest of the
    way. I was pretty successful at passing folks, but slowed about 15


    minutes

    Quoted message said:

    in the last 14 miles, anyway. I should have gone out a couple of minutes
    slower.

    It was a bit frustrating because I would typically outclimb folks on the
    uphills and steps, and move ahead on the runnable downs, but I'd have


    folks

    Quoted message said:

    (mostly youngsters) blasting by on the technical downhills (which were 30%
    of the course). My podiatrist was right: the first thing that goes is
    downhill speed.

    Coming out of the last turn around for the final 7.1 mile trip back to the
    finish I felt strong, passing people effortlessly on the uphills. Then


    came

    Quoted message said:

    the inevitable challenges: first, my medial quad cramped (while I was
    feeling great!). I immediately drank all the gu2o I had, and popped a
    Succeed tab. I went reeeeaaalll slow for a few minutes on the steps, and
    like magic, the cramps stopped. But I needed more water, and there was at
    least 20 minutes until the next aid station.

    Right about then, a guy I was catching on an uphill started squirting out
    his go2o! I said "STOP! Can I drink that?" And he gave it to me and I
    gratefully drank 3/4 of a bottle in about a minute, and popped another
    Succeed. That vanquished cramps for the rest of the run. That was a


    close

    Quoted message said:

    call.

    Next, with about 4 miles to go, the inside of my ankles started really
    hurting on every step of downhill. I'd sprained both ankles in May, but
    they hadn't given me any trouble recently. Well, the ankle gods came back
    with a vengeance -- this part of the course was a narrow single track with


    a

    Quoted message said:

    "V" profile, which was perfectly suited to hurt my not-totally-healed
    ankles. Pain makes cowards of us all. So I lost 4-5 minutes until,
    somewhat miraculously, they stopped hurting after 20-30 minutes.

    I was able to finish the race pretty strongly. I was able to run all the
    uphills but the steps. I had the satisfaction of passing younger runners


    on

    Quoted message said:

    the uphills, then looked on helplessly as they blasted by me down slippery
    steps and downhill mud.

    I finished tired, but not spent -- being mostly limited by treacherous
    downhills and slick steps, and possibly by being a mite too conservative


    on

    Quoted message said:

    the climbs and runnable descents.

    I finished in 5:44, off my 5:30 goal, and my last split (affected by


    cramps

    Quoted message said:

    and ankles) was 11 minutes slower than my first. Nevertheless, I had


    worked

    Quoted message said:

    my way up from 85th at 7 miles to 54th out of about 230 starters. I
    finished 5th out of about 30 50+ men. As usual in the bay area, a very
    strong field. The top 20% of the 50 year olds were at least 35:00 10k
    runners in their prime. The 2nd and 3rd place runners in the Angeles


    Crest

    Quoted message said:

    100 miler finished 6th and 11th respectively.

    Despite the difficulty, I loved the course. Redwood forests, fern


    grottos,

    Quoted message said:

    spectacular views, quaint stone steps, wide open, "sound of music"
    downhills, how can I complain?

    -- Dan

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