Purpose of this group

Steve <[email hidden]> wrote:
: I give up. I joined this group to read and learn about bicycle related information. Over the past
: month, I have seen nothing but flaming and irresponsible use of this group. If flaming is your
: flavor, then go some place else. All others need to block these folks and stop responding!!!!!!

You're essentially making that old call, "don't feed the troll".

: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE STOP. Let's discuss biking or get out and ride.

For me this seems to be a low-traffic newsgroup, the other cycling related groups are much more
active. So the off-topic trolling becomes more visible here... Just stick around and wait for the
next good thread, they come time to time.

--
Risto Varanka | helsinki.fihpv.htmlOpen ↗ varis at no spam please iki fi

I couldn't agree more. If I had to pick the most relevant forum in America right now, I would
consider our looming problems with the end of the oil age, our deepening health crisis with obesity,
skyrocketing costs of supporting motorists instead of citizens, how long commutes and being sealed
inside cars is dissolving the fabric of our society, and the overall physical condition of our
cities and communities and our increasing isolation and incivility.

Taking this into account, I would look at the most efficient form of transportation on the
planet, one that improves your health, relies on renewable fuel, and is essentially
non-polluting - the bicycle. I would look at the torrent of subsidies going to the automobile at
the expense of the bike.

Then I look at rec.bicycles.soc; the forum that has the opportunity to become the molecule of steel
at the tip of the spear for positive change, so to speak - and I'm proud - because I manage not to
weep openly.

"Steve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I give up. I joined this group to read and learn about bicycle related information. Over the past
month, I have seen nothing but flaming and irresponsible use of this group. If flaming is your
flavor, then go some place else. All others need to block these folks and stop

responding!!!!!!

Quoted message said:

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE STOP. Let's discuss biking or get out and ride.

Steve

I'm with Steve. I just joined this group, and if I'm going to even spend a few minutes reading [censored]
by stupid trolls, I'll just stop. In the spirit of improving the atmosphere and doing something
myself about the problem, I'll soon post a relevant topic.

risto.varanka said:

Steve <[email hidden]> wrote:
: I give up. I joined this group to read and learn about bicycle related information. Over the
: past month, I have seen nothing but flaming and irresponsible use of this group. If flaming is
: your flavor, then go some place else. All others need to block these folks and stop
: responding!!!!!!

You're essentially making that old call, "don't feed the troll".

: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE STOP. Let's discuss biking or get out and ride.

For me this seems to be a low-traffic newsgroup, the other cycling related groups are much more
active. So the off-topic trolling becomes more visible here... Just stick around and wait for the
next good thread, they come time to time.

Robert Haston <[email hidden]> wrote:
: I couldn't agree more. If I had to pick the most relevant forum in America right now, I would
: consider our looming problems with the end of the oil age, our deepening health crisis with
: obesity, skyrocketing costs of

I guess they said in 1970 that the oil age had ended. I think it was also predicted that oil would
run out in a few decades, but I think they found some more in the meanwhile...

: supporting motorists instead of citizens, how long commutes and being sealed inside cars is
: dissolving the fabric of our society, and the overall physical condition of our cities and
: communities and our increasing isolation and incivility.

What would you blame for the isolation of people in the society? Is it particularly a US problem, or
do you see it elsewhere as well?

Some people see the Internet as giving rise to more isolation and depression (Hubert Dreyfus for
example). Are we undergoing a sort of physical alienation?

I would see lots of positive aspects in online communication. Personally, it seems almost the only
viable way to overcome the social isolation that already is in place in our lives... Maybe our
society is undergoing a transformation in the social principles of association?

: Taking this into account, I would look at the most efficient form of transportation on the
: planet, one that improves your health, relies on renewable fuel, and is essentially non-polluting
: - the bicycle. I would look at the torrent of subsidies going to the automobile at the expense of
: the bike.

Is the bicycle really the most efficient form? You'd have to define efficiency too 😉

--
Risto Varanka | helsinki.fihpv.htmlOpen ↗ varis at no spam please iki fi

Robert Haston said:

Then I look at rec.bicycles.soc; the forum that has the opportunity to become the molecule of
steel at the tip of the spear for positive change, so to speak - and I'm proud - because I manage
not to weep openly.

I think it's not just us; all of Usenet is going down the same path as the Jerry Springer Show. In
every forum where more than one man of less than absolute civility, tolerance, and good will is
allowed to post, this downward slide is inevitable.

So why should Usenet be the tip of the spear, anyway? It's so very last-century, you can't even
moderate a discussion there without programming its user interface purely via e-mail to a bunch of
old coots who may pay attention to you, or they may not. If we want enforcement of civility, we can
set up a Web forum for that in about an hour.

--
-------- Scott Eiler B{D> -------- eilertech.comeilertech.comOpen ↗ --------

"It seemed an unlikely spot for a sensitive songwriter from Greenwich Village... She ordered
the 20-ounce steak." -- Lin Brehmer, Chicago DJ, describing his meeting in a steakhouse with
Suzanne Vega.

Dave Carroll <[email hidden]> wrote:
: I'm with Steve. I just joined this group, and if I'm going to even spend a few minutes reading
: [censored] by stupid trolls, I'll just stop. In the spirit of improving the atmosphere and doing
: something myself about the problem, I'll soon post a relevant topic.

Seems to be a disease of the cycling related newsgroups. Fortunately I can spot most suspicious
threads and avoid the most potential flamewars.

Well, killfiles might work too, though I only very rarely go that far.

--
Risto Varanka | helsinki.fihpv.htmlOpen ↗ varis at no spam please iki fi

A road bicycle at moderate speeds moves more weight further faster with less power input than any
machine or animal on the planet. You are right about the definition of efficiency, as practical
factors such as cost and cruising speed come into play.

A human is about as efficient as a gas engine in converting power, but when you consider that fossil
fuel is really "cheating" as incredible amounts of energy were expended to convert plant matter into
gasoline, we are miles ahead.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Is the bicycle really the most efficient form? You'd have to define efficiency too 😉

--
Risto Varanka | helsinki.fihpv.htmlOpen ↗ varis at no spam please iki fi

Quoted message said:

Robert Haston <[email hidden]> wrote:
: I couldn't agree more. If I had to pick the most relevant forum in America right now, I would
: consider our looming problems with the end of the oil age, our deepening health crisis with
: obesity, skyrocketing costs of

I guess they said in 1970 that the oil age had ended. I think it was also predicted that oil would
run out in a few decades, but I think they found some more in the meanwhile...

This happens every decade or so because the froot-loops amongst us do not understand what
"proven reserves" means. Just because oil has not yet been found does not mean it doesn't
exist. This is a bit like the search for WMD:

"It's correct to say that the IAEA was fooled by the Iraqis. But the lesson was learned. ... Not
seeing an indication of something does not lead automatically to the conclusion there is nothing."
-- Hans Blix, UN Chief Weapons Inspector Sept. 2002

Cordially, Ken (NY) Chairman, Department Of Redundancy Department
___________________________________
email: geocities.comemail.htmOpen ↗

Q: What the hardest thing about rollerblading?
R: Telling your parents you’re gay.

Well, I think this really hasn't much bearing on the point you would like to make, but sometimes
it's fun to engage in a bit of hair-splitting :-)

Robert Haston <[email hidden]> wrote:
: A road bicycle at moderate speeds moves more weight further faster with less power input than any
: machine or animal on the planet.

... except a sports recumbent. Or a faired racing recumbent. Have a look at
m5-ligfietsen.comsnelheid2.htmOpen ↗

Claiming them to be the most efficient vehicles (or at least the most efficient vehicles possible)
would be daring though. How about wind-powered vehicles? Wind is free you know... Or vehicles on ice
with skates? A snowboard would require little input for moving downhill too, though then you'd have
some energy stored already... But this is changing the definition too :-)

Who knows what kind of vehicles there will be available a century from now?

: You are right about the definition of efficiency, as practical factors such as cost and cruising
: speed come into play.

They sure do. When discussing speeds of recumbents, there are also some ifs and buts, some of them
discussed ad nauseam in the other newsgroups.

--
Risto Varanka | helsinki.fihpv.htmlOpen ↗ varis at no spam please iki fi