Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

Andy Froncioni said:

I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
- PT SL hub
- DT Aerolite spokes
- Reynolds Solitude rim
- 24-spoke
- 2-cross

Quoted message said:

The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?

Quoted message said:

Ready? Go! :-)

Where did you get the term "pulling spokes"? As I recall, that term
arose in "the Bicycle Wheel" and that suggests you may have read
something in that book. If so, you might read the answer to your
question there, but don't hold your breath. This is trivia and makes
no functional difference. The book gives an excuse for doing it one
way or the other, but that's about all.

Jobst Brandt

Andy Froncioni said:

I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
- PT SL hub
- DT Aerolite spokes
- Reynolds Solitude rim
- 24-spoke
- 2-cross

The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?

Ready? Go! :-)

Extremely minor difference between inside and outside.

An advantage to "inside" is that if the chain goes into the spokes, it
is less likely to tighten and jam with pedaling. Even though
chain-into-spokes is unlikely with a well-adjusted bike, the jams can be
bad enough when they happen to make "inside" a good choice.

Mark J.

Andy Froncioni said:

I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
- PT SL hub
- DT Aerolite spokes
- Reynolds Solitude rim
- 24-spoke
- 2-cross

The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?

Ready? Go! :-)

Inboard on a freewheel, outboard on a fixie, to reduce the (already
small) risk of chain jamming.

Andy Froncioni said:

I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
- PT SL hub
- DT Aerolite spokes
- Reynolds Solitude rim
- 24-spoke
- 2-cross

The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?

Ready? Go! :-)

The supposed advantage to pulling spokes on the outside is wider
effective flange spacing, for a slight increase in lateral strength.

I've built wheels both ways, and like Jobst says, the diffference is
trivial either way. Tension your spokes correctly, and adjust your RD,
and neither way will make any difference.

Hank Wirtz said:

Andy Froncioni said:

I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
- PT SL hub
- DT Aerolite spokes
- Reynolds Solitude rim
- 24-spoke
- 2-cross

The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?

Ready? Go! :-)

The supposed advantage to pulling spokes on the outside is wider
effective flange spacing, for a slight increase in lateral strength.

but the lateral component is not required for "pulling". indeed, stress
rise in "pulling" for spokes with more displacement is greater than
those closer to the radius, hence having the inboard spokes pull is in
theory preferable.

Quoted message said:

I've built wheels both ways, and like Jobst says, the diffference is
trivial either way.

indeed, that's the practical reality.

Quoted message said:

Tension your spokes correctly, and adjust your RD,
and neither way will make any difference.

Quoted message said:

Andy Froncioni said:

I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
- PT SL hub
- DT Aerolite spokes
- Reynolds Solitude rim
- 24-spoke
- 2-cross

Quoted message said:

The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?

Quoted message said:

Ready? Go! :-)

Where did you get the term "pulling spokes"? As I recall, that term
arose in "the Bicycle Wheel" and that suggests you may have read
something in that book. If so, you might read the answer to your
question there, but don't hold your breath. This is trivia and makes
no functional difference. The book gives an excuse for doing it one
way or the other, but that's about all.

Jobst Brandt

rather than claim credit for something that predates your mortal arrival
on this earth, and then [censored] about the op's impertinence in asking a
question you don't condescend to answer in your great, irrefutable and
in all respects correct and perfect book, why don't you answer the man's
question? it's not hard.

Hank Wirtz said:

The supposed advantage to pulling spokes on the outside is wider
effective flange spacing, for a slight increase in lateral strength.

I've heard that theory as well, but since the inside spokes cross
*over* the outside spokes, it sure looks like they have the wider
spacing to me.

Andy Froncioni said:

I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
- PT SL hub
- DT Aerolite spokes
- Reynolds Solitude rim
- 24-spoke
- 2-cross

The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?

Ready? Go! :-)

theoretically, pulling spokes should be inboard. but in reality, you'll
never notice any difference, especially not where spokes are interleaved.

Ron Ruff said:

Hank Wirtz said:

The supposed advantage to pulling spokes on the outside is wider
effective flange spacing, for a slight increase in lateral strength.

I've heard that theory as well, but since the inside spokes cross
*over* the outside spokes, it sure looks like they have the wider
spacing to me.

I did say "supposed" advantage. I've built four or five times times as
many wheels with the pulling spokes inside compared to outside. The
advantage of shielding those spokes from chain damage seemed much more
tangible to me.

Quoted message said:

Where did you get the term "pulling spokes"? As I recall, that term
arose in "the Bicycle Wheel" and that suggests you may have read
something in that book. If so, you might read the answer to your
question there, but don't hold your breath. This is trivia and makes
no functional difference. The book gives an excuse for doing it one
way or the other, but that's about all.

Page 74, Second Edition:

"Pulling spokes coming from the inside of the flange would draw the spokes
away from the derailleur. To improve rear derailleur clearance rear wheels
should be spoked mirror-image with the pulling spokes coming from between
the flanges."

There doesn't appear to be anything ambiguous about which way to install
the spokes in a rear wheel.

Andy Froncioni said:

I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
- PT SL hub
- DT Aerolite spokes
- Reynolds Solitude rim
- 24-spoke
- 2-cross

The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?

Ready? Go! :-)

Makes no difference. Just build well.

Thank you all for your answers. It certainly sounds like I won't be
making a mistake by putting the pulling spokes inboard.

And, yes, Jobst, I have bought a copy of your book and read it. But I
thought there might be other opinions out there, too.
;-)

Dans le message de
news:[email hidden],
Andy Froncioni <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Thank you all for your answers. It certainly sounds like I won't be
making a mistake by putting the pulling spokes inboard.

And, yes, Jobst, I have bought a copy of your book and read it. But I
thought there might be other opinions out there, too.
;-)

Not permitted. Not legal. Stop at once.
--
Sandy

The above is guaranteed 100% free of sarcasm,
denigration, snotty remarks, indifference, platitudes, fuming demands that
"you do the math", conceited visions of a better world on wheels according
to [insert NAME here].

"jim beam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Andy Froncioni said:

I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
- PT SL hub
- DT Aerolite spokes
- Reynolds Solitude rim
- 24-spoke
- 2-cross

Quoted message said:

The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?

Quoted message said:

Ready? Go! :-)

Where did you get the term "pulling spokes"? As I recall, that term
arose in "the Bicycle Wheel" and that suggests you may have read
something in that book. If so, you might read the answer to your
question there, but don't hold your breath. This is trivia and makes
no functional difference. The book gives an excuse for doing it one
way or the other, but that's about all.

Jobst Brandt

rather than claim credit for something that predates your mortal arrival
on this earth, and then [censored] about the op's impertinence in asking a
question you don't condescend to answer in your great, irrefutable and
in all respects correct and perfect book, why don't you answer the man's
question? it's not hard.

I remember the term "pulling spokes" at least back to the early 1970s when
someone was teaching me how to build wheels.

Chas.

* * Chas said:

I remember the term "pulling spokes" at least back to the
early 1970s when someone was teaching me how to build wheels.

Yes, a google search suggests that Jobst's "the Bicycle Wheel"
was first published in 1981.

Likewise I remember the term "pulling spokes" from before that.
I've found one of my old books, "Building Bicycle Wheels" by
Robert Wright, published in 1977. While I would no longer
recommend this book to anyone, the author does use the term, eg
"I believe it's best to build rear wheels symmetrically, with
all the pulling spokes leaving the flanges from the outside
faces" (p13).

John

"John Henderson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

* * Chas said:

I remember the term "pulling spokes" at least back to the
early 1970s when someone was teaching me how to build wheels.

Yes, a google search suggests that Jobst's "the Bicycle Wheel"
was first published in 1981.

Likewise I remember the term "pulling spokes" from before that.
I've found one of my old books, "Building Bicycle Wheels" by
Robert Wright, published in 1977. While I would no longer
recommend this book to anyone, the author does use the term, eg
"I believe it's best to build rear wheels symmetrically, with
all the pulling spokes leaving the flanges from the outside
faces" (p13).

John

Funny, I was always told to have the pulling spokes on the inside - by an
engineer that I worked for at the time.

Chas.

* * Chas said:

"John Henderson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

* * Chas said:

I remember the term "pulling spokes" at least back to the
early 1970s when someone was teaching me how to build wheels.

Yes, a google search suggests that Jobst's "the Bicycle Wheel"
was first published in 1981.

Likewise I remember the term "pulling spokes" from before that.
I've found one of my old books, "Building Bicycle Wheels" by
Robert Wright, published in 1977. While I would no longer
recommend this book to anyone, the author does use the term, eg
"I believe it's best to build rear wheels symmetrically, with
all the pulling spokes leaving the flanges from the outside
faces" (p13).

John

Funny, I was always told to have the pulling spokes on the inside - by an
engineer that I worked for at the time.

Chas.

fwiw, my mavic cosmos rears are outside pulling.

the rationale the traditional config is that under normal radial
loading, the closer the pulling spokes are to the wheel's center plane,
the lower the geometric tension rise. hence you lace for the inside.

the debate comes in when you consider lateral loading as well - it would
be a matter of whether the tension rise due to lateral loading was
comparable to tension increase created by "pulling".

Quoted message said:

Andy Froncioni said:

I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
- PT SL hub
- DT Aerolite spokes
- Reynolds Solitude rim
- 24-spoke
- 2-cross
The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?
Ready? Go! :-)

Where did you get the term "pulling spokes"?

As opposed to....what? Yanking spokes? That sounds Chinese - the odd
of the bike being made there are pretty fair, so maybe that's
accurate. Attraction spokes? Sounds too Middle English. Draw
spokes? Antiquated card game. Since they're in tension, aren't all
spokes pulling spokes? Hauling spokes? That's a good term for riding
fast or the name of a band.

R

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

* * Chas said:

I remember the term "pulling spokes" at least back to the
early 1970s when someone was teaching me how to build wheels.

Yes, a google search suggests that Jobst's "the Bicycle Wheel"
was first published in 1981.

Quoted message said:

John Henderson said:

Likewise I remember the term "pulling spokes" from before that.
I've found one of my old books, "Building Bicycle Wheels" by
Robert Wright, published in 1977. While I would no longer
recommend this book to anyone, the author does use the term, eg
"I believe it's best to build rear wheels symmetrically, with
all the pulling spokes leaving the flanges from the outside
faces" (p13).

* * Chas said:

Funny, I was always told to have the pulling spokes on the inside - by an
engineer that I worked for at the time.

This has been hashed out many times. There are favorable features either
way but no compelling reason to go in or out. We each build as we are
accustomed and it makes no practical difference.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971