Provence this September

GLH1013 said:

This year my wife & I will be flying from Milwaukee to
Paris (CDG airport), KLM on Sept 5, 2004.

We plan to take the high speed train direct from CDG to
Avignon. We are bringing our own bikes in boxes. We plan
to set up a home base camp at the campground on the island
next to Avignon. We plan to take day bike trips to Arles,
St Remy, Pont du Gard, Orange, Utes, Baux in Provence,
along with a few other places. Some days we will stay
overnite enroute.

We plan to train back to Paris for a few days of
sightseeing there. We will be in country for 15 days.

I will have just turned 60 and I hear that I might be
eligible for special discounted train fare. We are
interested in suggestions for this trip from those of you
in the know. Any info will be appreciated.

If you know, when and where should we get our train
tickets? Do you know of reasonably priced and located
Paris lodging? Where can we get bike boxes for our
return flight?

Thanks in advance.

Gary & Donna [email hidden] [email hidden]

The SNCF website has an English-language passenger guide
that discusses senior discounts. <voyages-voyages-Open ↗
sncf.com/info_resa/passenger_guide/available_fares/hom
e.htm?LG=FR&Rubrique=Available+Fares>

Before the Madrid train bombings you could take your bike on
the TGV, but it had to be held in an "housse," a bag of
specific maximal external dimensions that basically requires
that the wheels, any luggage racks, and pedals be off and
the handlebar and seat post height be minimized, and placed
in the open (and non-secure) luggage area at the end of each
train car. After the bombings, SNCF blocked off these
luggage areas and instituted a new policy that carry-on
luggage had to fit around and over each passenger's seat. I
personally verified this policy change via e-mail with SNCF
in mid-April since their passenger guide had not been
updated to reflect it. I don't know if that policy will
still be in place in September. You will want to check with
them sometime before your trip to see if they have changed
their restrictions.

Quoted message said:

This year my wife & I will be flying from Milwaukee to
Paris (CDG

airport), KLM

Quoted message said:

on Sept 5, 2004.

Direct flights from MKE to CDG? I'm impressed! :>😉 (My
assumption is that you'll fly MKE to Detroit to CDG).

Quoted message said:

I will have just turned 60 and I hear that I might be
eligible for special discounted train fare. We are
interested in suggestions for this trip from those of you
in the know. Any info will be appreciated.

As Robert pointed out, the info is on the SNCF website, and
there's an English-language option.

Quoted message said:

If you know, when and where should we get our train
tickets? Do you know of reasonably priced and located
Paris lodging? Where can we get bike boxes for our
return flight?

Ah, now there's the rub. In the US, you're *supposed* to buy
tickets through their high-priced subsidiary,
RailEurope.com. However, tickets direct from SNCF are far
cheaper. You can order the tickets on-line and pay for them,
but have them held at the station for pickup. This option
assumes you're French (if you try to give it your address,
there's no option for the US... tons of other countries, but
not the US), but there's nothing that requires you to be,
nor have I heard of any difficulties doing so.

If you were doing a lot of rail journeys, it would make
sense to look into a RailPass (which you would actually buy
from RailEurope). But if you only trip is to Avignon, then a
single roundtrip ticket makes sense.

Please note also that a "ticket" and a "reservation" are too
entirely different things. The TGV requires both.

Please also note Robert's info on the bikes... since the
Madrid bombing, that's a real issue. There may be an option
to carry the bike as freight in a different car.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

(GLH1013) said:

We plan to take the high speed train direct from CDG to
Avignon.

You will want to check to see if you can still takes bike on
TGVs. There have been some policy changes due to security in
the past year. In 2002, I had no problem with my bike in a
bag from Paris to Grenoble; it was a carry-on and put in the
luggage rack. In 2003, I was able to just put my naked bike
into a small storage area from Guingamp to Paris- but that
was during Paris-Brest-Paris and the French may just have
been being accommodating.

Quoted message said:

If you know, when and where should we get our train
tickets?

IME get them before you leave home, and check into a Eurail
pass (IIRC www.eurail.com and I'm sure I've got that wrong,
but someone can correct me). You can get better fares buying
your ticket this way than buying in France, IME. Buy a
museum pass, too, if you're going to go sightseeing in Paris
(IME do not miss Saint-Chappelle).

Rick Steves gives me the creeps for some reason, but his
book on Paris is full of very good information.
www.ricksteves.com

Quoted message said:

Do you know of reasonably priced and located Paris
lodging?

I found 2 star hotels very reliable, reasonably priced and
they always had English-speaking desk staff. There are lots
of ways to get hotel rooms, I found the various Internet
sites helpful. I stayed at the Hotel Castex in the Marais;
it was perfectly adequate and cheap. It has upgraded to a 3
star hotel now, with concommittant price increases.
www.hotelcastex.com It's also near the Gare de Lyon, if
that's your terminus (you might actually depart for Avignon
from Gare Montparnasse).

Quoted message said:

Where can we get bike boxes for our return flight?

Keep the ones you take over for the return flight, if you
can find somewhere to store them in Avignon or at your
"home base."

Hello,

here is some French Guy advice/experience about
bike+train...

first, you can check the french
fubicy.orgindex.htmlOpen ↗ page made
by a french association : the Federation of Users of
BICYcles which gave a very bad grade to SNCF for ther bike
service...

SNCF which is the national company for railway
transportation have a very bad reputation about their
capability to transport bikes... and they deserve it...

In TGV-Méditerranée (high speed trains in south of France)
you have a special part in two of the train-cars. In those,
you can hang your bike without any protection. You have to
pay a small fee : 10 euro and reserve this service as their
is only a few available spots in each train (4 to 6 bikes).
However, last time i used it, the web system did not allow
to specify and pay for this option... thus making the
service free (i never paid for it)! Especially if you don't
speak french, the 100% probability that you'll have a non or
bad english speaking control agent will let you free of
charge, just be kind with him and tell that in your contry
it's free (c'esy gratuit dans mon pays) (even if it's
not...) You could still buy your ticket at the gare de Lyon
Station once in Paris and be sure to get a place for your
bike. But you are travelling outside the rush period so you
should have no availability issue.

The problem is then that you usually like to have a seat in
the same car than the one where youre bike is... which you
cannot choose... One plan if you buy your ticket at the
station is to buy tickets until you got a winning one in car
7 or 17 which if i remeber well are the car with the bike
spots... Then get the other one refurbished... You'll
probably get the sell-agent angry but it is one of them who
told me to do so once !

Last chance is that you can alway and for free have your
bike on the train if you put it in a protective luggage
whose dimension should not exceed 120 cm x 90 cm

It's true that after Madrid bombing, some problem with
luggage compartment occured but there is an official
letter from SNCF head confirming that bikes are allowed
in trains... and that stations should not refuse to sell
this service.

From CDG airport to Gare de Lyon station, i recommand
you the RER B (Paris by train signs at the airport) up
to chatelet les halles stations and then line RER A up
to gare de lyon station. Bikes are allowed in the RER
trains for free.

Please avoid the separate delivery of your bike to your
final destination... that should just be another source of
potential issues ! (especially with SERNAM which is the
company which have deals with SNCF)

Anyway, i'm sure you'll manage to carry your bike with you,
that you'll hate SNCF after that, but that you'll enjoy
your trip in Provence very much despite this previsible
"bad start" !

Concerning your stay in Paris, there are a few camp site
very close to Paris (there is a nice one in the town where
i live : Maisons-Laffite, which i 25 minutes from the
"hearth center of Paris" by the RER A train where you'll be
able to get with your bike if you'd like to experience
biking in Paris).

If you have some more precise questions, i can try and
answer them.

Regards,

Mathieu

Thanks all for the info. Now I am really confused. It is a
good thing I have 3 months to figure this out. Last year we
put our bike boxes on the boat at the Venice airport at went
to the Lido no problem. For the next 2 weeks we got on
ferrys and trains without any concerns (we did have to pay
minimum bike fees on some occassions).

Now we are talking about reservations for us and for our
bikes. What happens if we go to the train station at CDG
Airport and say we want to catch the next train to Avignon
and we want to take our bikes with us, and that we have no
reservations and want to make them at that time and catch
the next train? And we say this in English? We could still
have them in the boxes from the plane or unpacked. Is this
doable? Gary

Quoted message said:

Thanks all for the info. Now I am really confused.

I hope my message didn't "frightened" you ! It was at least
not the intention, France is still a civilized country !

Quoted message said:

It is a good thing I have 3 months to figure this out.
Last year we put our bike boxes on the boat at the Venice
airport at went to the Lido no problem. For the next 2
weeks we got on ferrys and trains without any concerns
(we did have to pay minimum bike fees on some
occassions).

Now we are talking about reservations for us and for
our bikes.

On the TGV (high speed train) you always have to make a
reservation, but in fact, it's included with the ticket than
assign you a precise seat when you buy it, whereas in other
trains ("slow" ones) you can optionnaly buy this seat
assignment or just hope to find an empty seat... So if you
travel with TGV, once you have your ticket, you'll have your
seat and everything will be fine... even more if you can
manage to get the bike option what you can't do on the
internet...

Quoted message said:

What happens if we go to the train station at CDG Airport
and say we

want to catch the next

Quoted message said:

train to Avignon and we want to take our bikes with us,
and that we have no reservations and want to make them at
that time and catch the next > train?

as i explained, reservation means that you have a seat
assignment. Concerning the bikes, you should be able to
pay for this service if you buy your ticket directly at
the station. In the previous message, i forgot that you
can catch the TGV train directly at the airport (terminal
2) which will be more convenient for you than going to
gare de lyon...

Quoted message said:

And we say this in English?

If you buy your tickets at the airport, the commercial
agents will speak english !

Quoted message said:

We could still have them in the boxes from the plane or
unpacked. Is this doable?

If your boxes are less than 120 cm * 90 cm ( 1 in = 2.54 cm
)then there can't be any problem, it's considered and
allowed as any other luggage... But the problem should
occur when you will come back : you won't have your boxes
anymore i guess ?

Quoted message said:

Gary

GLH1013 said:

Now we are talking about reservations for us and for our
bikes. What happens if we go to the train station at CDG
Airport and say we want to catch the next train to Avignon
and we want to take our bikes with us, and that we have no
reservations and want to make them at that time and catch
the next train? And we say this in English? We could still
have them in the boxes from the plane or unpacked. Is this
doable? Gary

If you can't find a way to put your bikes in the TGV,
there is still the option of using regional trains (TER).
Many or most TER have compartments where you can load your
bike for free without the need for packing it. The
drawback is double:
- these trains are much slower as they usually stop
everywhere, and you will have to change train several
times. But it is probably possible, by leaving Paris early
in the morning, to get to Avignon on the same day.
- these trains are organized by region. Some regions will
have as a rule that all TERs accept bikes; other will
allow bikes on specific trains. All the information is in
principle available from the SNCF web site (look at
regional timetables), but the format is not the same for
all regions.

Despite these problems, I have been able to bring my loaded
bike from Marseille back to Geneva using TERs without
specific bike-related problems (the more general problem was
that SNCF was on strike that week-end...).

If you choose to use the TER option and you have trouble
decoding the timetables in French, send me an e-mail with
your planned dates and I will try to spend half an hour to
figure out a schedule for you.

Jacques

Hello

I will be going next month on TGV (Paris-St. Jean de Luz and
then Collioure-Paris)

I do have a bike bag < 120 x 90 cm but I know the large
luggage racks at the end of carriages (which is what I used
last two years) are now sealed off according to SNCF. Where
can one put the disassembled bike on the TGV carriage?

Quoted message said:

If your boxes are less than 120 cm * 90 cm ( 1 in = 2.54
cm )then there can't be any problem, it's considered and
allowed as any other luggage... But the problem should
occur when you will come back : you won't have your boxes
anymore i guess ?

Quoted message said:

Gary

Quoted message said:

Hello

I will be going next month on TGV (Paris-St. Jean de Luz
and then Collioure-Paris)

I do have a bike bag < 120 x 90 cm but I know the large
luggage racks at the end of carriages (which is what I
used last two years) are now sealed off according to SNCF.
Where can one put the disassembled bike on the TGV
carriage?

I'm not sure wether the luggage racks are still closed but
you may be right... Anyway, SNCF did not changed the rules
and bikes are still allowed... I suggest you should try to
arrive early at the station (no more than 20 minutes early
: trains arrive in the terminal-stations 20 minutes before
the time to leave). Getting there early will let you have
your dissassembled bike in the luggage compartment above
your seat. They are quite big and I know it can be done.
The last solution is just to let it in the lobby next to
your seat and to move it when it is an issue (child seats
and so on...)

The other issue is : what do you do with your bag then ? Do
you carry it all over your trip ?

Thanks for the reply.

The disassembled bike will fit overhead rack? I don't
remember how big it was but then again I didn't really pay
too much attention. Guess I will know when I get there. I am
sure I will find SOME place for the bike.

The bag I use is not one of those proper (and expensive)
"housse" that one's supposed to use. It is just a really
large trash bag (actually a clear, thin plastic liner for
55-gallon hazardous waste container/drum - I use a new,
clean one, of course!)

Last year I used it on three TGV rides (put at the end of
the carriage) with no problem. Some funny looks here and
there but the conductors didn't say anything,

The bag is just plastic so very light and I just carried w/
me all along. Didn't effect the weight of my pannier
luggage at all.

Good day.

"Mathieu Peyréga" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hello

I will be going next month on TGV (Paris-St. Jean de Luz
and then Collioure-Paris)

I do have a bike bag < 120 x 90 cm but I know the large
luggage racks at

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

end of carriages (which is what I used last two years)
are now sealed

off

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

according to SNCF. Where can one put the disassembled
bike on the TGV carriage?

I'm not sure wether the luggage racks are still closed but
you may be right... Anyway, SNCF did not changed the rules
and bikes are still allowed... I suggest you should try to
arrive early at the station (no more than 20 minutes early
: trains arrive in the terminal-stations 20 minutes before
the time to leave). Getting there early will let you have
your dissassembled bike in the luggage compartment above
your seat. They are quite big and I know it can be done.
The last solution is just to let it in the lobby next to
your seat and to move it when it is an issue (child seats
and so on...)

The other issue is : what do you do with your bag then ?
Do you carry it all over your trip ?

peyrega Did you get my email message? I received a non
delivery notice. Please let me know how to contact you
(address)

Gary H

mathieu.peyrega (_the_sign_that_mean_at_) orange.fr