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PROFFESSIONAL BEGGING

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UK and Europe
Published
30 April 2006
Last activity
3 May 2006
Original author
andy
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66
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  1. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Perhaps it's just me, but I don't find this nearly as offensive as many
    here seem to. A polite "no thankyou" or "sorry, but no" has worked with
    every such person without recourse to rudeness or witty retorts.

    Thanks, Jon, you encapsulated well what I'd been feeling about a lot of
    these smug, self-satisfied posts.

    I doubt we'd be so rude to people who have lousy but necessary jobs,
    like refuse collectors or street cleaners. But nowadays there are so
    many lousy but useless jobs (like the folk who knock on your door or
    ring you up) and my reaction is - so glad it isn't me - so I try to be
    polite as I slam the door/phone down.

    I've collected for charity myself - for free - and was amazed how rude
    folk could be about third-world poverty. We weren't being stupid by
    collecting in the poorer areas.

    As to market researchers, they've heard it all before. I've never done
    it in the street, but if I'm bored at home I might. To the question
    "how many people work at your worlplace" I once ventured "about half of
    them" but apparently lots of folks crack that one. To Richard with his
    £20 an hour fee, my reply would be "Oh, you must be a solicitor. Which
    kind?"

    You used to get street researchers, but nowadays they seem to have died
    out round here (most who look like them seem to be catalogue
    recruiters, or perhaps employees of the business you're using. I think
    much more market research is internet-based these days) but there used
    to be a worthwhile street one* where you'd be taken to some upstairs
    room to "test" some new product. Once it was even beer - but I doubt
    that'd be allowed nowadays since nearly everybody bloody drives (see I
    knew I could get this back on topic!)

    George Orwell, who did all sorts of lousy jobs, says that if you see
    someone distributing handbills you should always take one to help the
    person finish the job. So I always do, but once I took what I thought
    was a leaflet from a Hare Krishna type, but it was a book, and he
    insisted I'd "bought" it and had to pay - wouldn't take it back. I
    thought this was a bit much, but you have to have some respect for folk
    who give their time to a cause for nothing. Even Jehovah's Witnesses, I
    guess.

    Fair comment, but are these jobs (along with all the other telephone
    and doorstep cold callers) really necessary? It may be that this means
    is a relatively efficient means of raising funds compared to mailshots
    etc. TBF when Kleen-Eze used to knock on the door I usually took pity
    on them and ordered something. And I just say "no thanks" to the street
    ones.

  2. Quoted message said:

    Fair comment, but are these jobs (along with all the other telephone
    and doorstep cold callers) really necessary?

    No, they're not - except to the employer, presumably.

    George Orwell (again - this is "Down and Out in Paris and London"😉 came
    to the defence of begging, which was then illegal. But if you sold
    something useless, or polluted the air with off-tune singing, then that
    was a "trade" and OK. His defence was - OK, begging serves no useful
    purpose - but then, neither do many respectable professions. I wonder
    which ones he meant?

  3. MartinM said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Perhaps it's just me, but I don't find this nearly as offensive as many
    here seem to. A polite "no thankyou" or "sorry, but no" has worked with
    every such person without recourse to rudeness or witty retorts.

    Thanks, Jon, you encapsulated well what I'd been feeling about a lot of
    these smug, self-satisfied posts.

    Quoted message said:


    Fair comment, but are these jobs (along with all the other telephone
    and doorstep cold callers) really necessary?

    They are probably necessary to those trying to make a living off the
    meagre commission.
    Those here who advocate rudeness should be ashamed of themselves.
    Perhaps they get a cheap thrill from their 'smart' remarks?

    tt

  4. Quoted message said:

    As to market researchers, they've heard it all before. I've never done
    it in the street, but if I'm bored at home I might.

    Often worthwhile hearing what they've got to say - I've been given a mobile
    phone and phone calls free for a year, £50 for half a hour interview and
    last week 'earned' £15 chatting on the phone with some chap about broadband
    internet for 10 minutes.

    Not life changing amounts, but I can buy beer with it.

  5. Quoted message said:

    Not life changing amounts, but I can buy beer with it.

    Or on the internet. I've earned about £60 in luncheon vouchers from
    PineCone, and a £50 cheque from YouGov with another nearly due, also
    earned donations for charities or been given "points" towards some
    admittedly fairly useless "rewards". Just avoid those that merely enter
    you for "prizes" or whose reward is something like "free" hotel stays
    if you buy all their meals, or "free" tickets to some attraction when
    you're paying for the first ticket(s).

  6. Quoted message said:

    you have to have some respect for folk
    who give their time to a cause for nothing.

    No, I really don't. I have absolutely no respect for those canvassing
    for the BNP, for example.

    Charity collectors I have little objection to generally, although what
    gets me bloody annoyed are those large companies who do something
    ostensibly for charity but with commercial undertones. A few years ago,
    for example, the regional factory of a large crisp manufacturer ran a
    promotion whereby if some large number of its used crisp packets were
    collected, it would pay for a young lad and his family to be flown to
    the US for some important medical operation that could only be done
    there. That, IMO, is low.

    But that's tangential. I was talking about high street and
    door-stepping market researchers. No matter what they are being paid
    (and I'm sure it's a pittance), I object to being asked to work for
    free, particularly on my days off. If you're just unlocking your bike
    at the end of work and some chap runs out of the neighbouring factory
    and says "Hey, Mister, come and sort out some paperwork for us for
    twenty minutes? We're not paying you, mind, we want to maximise our
    boss's profits,", would you really not take offense? That is exactly
    what these people are asking you to do.

    R.

  7. Richard said:

    But that's tangential. I was talking about high street and
    door-stepping market researchers. No matter what they are being paid
    (and I'm sure it's a pittance), I object to being asked to work for
    free, particularly on my days off.

    Quoted message said:

    If you're just unlocking your bike
    at the end of work and some chap runs out of the neighbouring factory
    and says "Hey, Mister, come and sort out some paperwork for us for
    twenty minutes? We're not paying you, mind, we want to maximise our
    boss's profits,", would you really not take offense? That is exactly
    what these people are asking you to do.

    I see no reason to be rude though, or to be offended, as the choice is
    yours to accept or not.
    Cannot you just politely say no?

    John B

  8. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    you have to have some respect for folk
    who give their time to a cause for nothing.

    Quoted message said:

    No, I really don't. I have absolutely no respect for those canvassing
    for the BNP, for example.

    I'd hope that I'd try to persuade such a deluded person to see the
    error of their ways - though probably not at a doorstep call, I'd be
    afraid of getting my windows smashed in.

    Quoted message said:

    But that's tangential. I was talking about high street and
    door-stepping market researchers. No matter what they are being paid
    (and I'm sure it's a pittance), I object to being asked to work for
    free, particularly on my days off.

    The money culture of our society means that folk are no longer willing
    to do something for nothing. That's why market research is moving to
    the internet, where it's the interviewee who can get paid rather than
    the interviewer. (Most "street" canvassers, as I've pointed out, are
    not MRs at all, and as Mark pointed out you can sometimes get paid for
    the doorstepping or telephone kind (I admit the latter gets to me, too
    - being XD is no defence, they use automatic dialling).

    I was just wondering, pace Orwell, about your £20-an-hour fee. What is
    your honourable profession, perchance? (Apologies if you're a nurse or
    something similarly worthwhile.) What are you charging us to view your
    thoughts on Usenet?

  9. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    No, I really don't. I have absolutely no respect for those canvassing
    for the BNP, for example.

    I'd hope that I'd try to persuade such a deluded person to see the
    error of their ways

    I'm not sure any such conversation would be worthwhile; canvassers are
    in defensive mindset. When I was canvassing, I had all the counter
    arguments ready on autopilot. Pig-wrestling springs to mind.

    Quoted message said:

    I was just wondering, pace Orwell, about your £20-an-hour fee. What is
    your honourable profession, perchance? (Apologies if you're a nurse or
    something similarly worthwhile.) What are you charging us to view your
    thoughts on Usenet?

    I dispense the magnificence of my thoughts free to the deserving few. :-)

    20 quid was plucked purely from thin air as a figure that is high enough
    to deter most but isn't outrageously silly. I'm secretly hoping that
    someone will actually pay me one day, which will shut me up good and
    proper. ;-)

    R.

  10. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Perhaps it's just me, but I don't find this nearly as offensive as many
    here seem to. A polite "no thankyou" or "sorry, but no" has worked with
    every such person without recourse to rudeness or witty retorts.

    Thanks, Jon, you encapsulated well what I'd been feeling about a lot of
    these smug, self-satisfied posts.


    But when you have to walk past these chuggers (charity muggers) to buy
    lunch every day and get accosted twice on the way to buy lunch and then
    again by the same people on the way back it gets very annoying (I've now
    learned a "don't annoy me" look and I get attacked only about once per
    week)

    Tim.

    --
    God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
    and there was light.

    http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

  11. Quoted message said:

    A few years ago,
    for example, the regional factory of a large crisp manufacturer ran a
    promotion whereby if some large number of its used crisp packets were
    collected, it would pay for a young lad and his family to be flown to
    the US for some important medical operation that could only be done
    there. That, IMO, is low.

    Sounds like a hoax, like the plastic milk bottle tops.

    Quoted message said:

    If you're just unlocking your bike
    at the end of work and some chap runs out of the neighbouring factory
    and says "Hey, Mister, come and sort out some paperwork for us for
    twenty minutes? We're not paying you, mind, we want to maximise our
    boss's profits,", would you really not take offense?

    No, who would? You'd just say no and bid the fool good day, surely.

  12. Tim Woodall said:

    (I've now learned a "don't annoy me" look and I get attacked only
    about once per week)

    There's your problem; you shouldn't be looking at them at all. Rule #1:
    don't make eye-contact, they will _always_ use that as a cue.

  13. Simon Bennett said:
    Tim Woodall said:

    (I've now learned a "don't annoy me" look and I get attacked only
    about once per week)

    There's your problem; you shouldn't be looking at them at all. Rule #1:
    don't make eye-contact, they will _always_ use that as a cue.

    Useful prop # 1: The mobile phone. Hold it to your ear, or stare at it
    in a meaningful way.

    Tim

  14. "MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I just tell them I don't use credit cards, that usually leaves them in
    stunned silence.

    I don't either - just a couple of charge cards that have to be paid off
    in full each month. I know too many people with very large credit card
    debts built up because you can. But you do need something to buy bicycle
    bits on line ;-)

    Visa debit card; does it all, if you can't afford it don't buy it
    (seems a bit of a Victorian concept these days). And for bigger
    purchases the BS's are desperate to lend you money (aimed at getting
    punters to pay off credit card bills) at very low rates.

    Credit cards do have some advantages - eg you're better protected than with
    a debit card. It isn't actually compulsory to not pay it off at the end of
    the month either (they'll let you set up a DD to do this).

    cheers,
    clive

  15. "Clive George" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > I just tell them I don't use credit cards, that usually leaves them in
    > stunned silence.
    >

    I don't either - just a couple of charge cards that have to be paid off
    in full each month. I know too many people with very large credit card
    debts built up because you can. But you do need something to buy bicycle
    bits on line ;-)

    Visa debit card; does it all, if you can't afford it don't buy it
    (seems a bit of a Victorian concept these days). And for bigger
    purchases the BS's are desperate to lend you money (aimed at getting
    punters to pay off credit card bills) at very low rates.

    Credit cards do have some advantages - eg you're better protected than
    with a debit card. It isn't actually compulsory to not pay it off at the
    end of the month either (they'll let you set up a DD to do this).

    What he said. Never rack up a credit card bill but use it for purchase
    protection.

  16. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I was just wondering, pace Orwell, about your £20-an-hour fee. What is
    your honourable profession, perchance? (Apologies if you're a nurse or
    something similarly worthwhile.) What are you charging us to view your
    thoughts on Usenet?

    The average garage charges > £25 an hour labour...

  17. Tim Hall said:
    Simon Bennett said:
    Tim Woodall said:

    (I've now learned a "don't annoy me" look and I get attacked only
    about once per week)

    There's your problem; you shouldn't be looking at them at all. Rule #1:
    don't make eye-contact, they will _always_ use that as a cue.

    Useful prop # 1: The mobile phone. Hold it to your ear, or stare at it
    in a meaningful way.

    or carry your ID badge and an armful of Big Issues. I was once
    telephoned to be informed I had won a holiday; but could only have it
    if I was in full time employment. When I asked why I needed to be
    employed to receive this free gift they got very arsey.

  18. Doki said:

    "Clive George" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    > > I just tell them I don't use credit cards, that usually leaves them in
    > > stunned silence.
    > >
    >
    > I don't either - just a couple of charge cards that have to be paid off
    > in full each month. I know too many people with very large credit card
    > debts built up because you can. But you do need something to buy bicycle
    > bits on line ;-)

    Visa debit card; does it all, if you can't afford it don't buy it
    (seems a bit of a Victorian concept these days). And for bigger
    purchases the BS's are desperate to lend you money (aimed at getting
    punters to pay off credit card bills) at very low rates.

    Credit cards do have some advantages - eg you're better protected than
    with a debit card. It isn't actually compulsory to not pay it off at the
    end of the month either (they'll let you set up a DD to do this).

    What he said. Never rack up a credit card bill but use it for purchase
    protection.

    Indeed. With careful manipulation of credit cards in accordance with
    the terms and conditions, they can be extremely valuable financial
    instruments.

    (e.g. new credit card gives 6 months interest free credit. Do all
    household purchases using CC and place the equivalent in a high
    interest account. Just before the time limit expires, transfer the
    balance to a new card with a similar deal. lather. rinse. repeat.)
    It requires a strong element of financial discipline and an awareness
    of how to play the system but it can be very rewarding.

    Personally I find that too much hassle so just use it as a deferred
    payment card and pay everything off at the end of the month.

    ...d

  19. Doki said:
    Quoted message said:

    Credit cards do have some advantages - eg you're better protected than
    with a debit card. It isn't actually compulsory to not pay it off at the
    end of the month either (they'll let you set up a DD to do this).

    What he said. Never rack up a credit card bill but use it for purchase
    protection.

    yebbut Shirley you have to keep some mental or other note of how much
    you've spent (and also sent back) over the past month; this involves
    being organised so a non-starter.
    (goes off to rummage for recorded delivery slip after the PO didn't)

  20. "MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Doki said:
    Quoted message said:

    Credit cards do have some advantages - eg you're better protected than
    with a debit card. It isn't actually compulsory to not pay it off at
    the
    end of the month either (they'll let you set up a DD to do this).

    What he said. Never rack up a credit card bill but use it for purchase
    protection.

    yebbut Shirley you have to keep some mental or other note of how much
    you've spent (and also sent back) over the past month; this involves
    being organised so a non-starter.
    (goes off to rummage for recorded delivery slip after the PO didn't)

    S'not that hard. I'm not at all organised, but have used CCs that way for
    many years. CC bill arrives sufficiently before the DD goes away that even
    if I did [censored] up and spend far too much, I could sort it out in time. But
    then I do have at least an order of magnitude idea of what I'm spending - I
    don't tend to forget about big transactions.

    Of course internet banking helps here - and frequent checking means you'll
    catch fraudulent transactions a lot quicker.

    (I suppose if your budget constraints were very tight then it might make
    things a little more complicated. But it would have to be really tight..)

    cheers,
    clive

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