Problems with cars

Tristan Bergin said:

Does everyone else have as much hassle with cars as I do? I am constantly
abused by other road users. On one occasion the abuser overtook me, pulled
over suddenly, got out and started running across the road screaming at me.
Only yesterday someone in a ute screamed at me to get off the road. I
shouted back as they passed, at the next roundabout they did a 360 and ended
up behind me again and shouted "do you wanna get run over'.

Normally though its just honks and shouting. I am really fed up with it. And
I am really concerned about my safety, I mean if someone is prepared to turn
around and start using their car as a threat you have to question their
sanity.

Tristan

Good Morning,
Par for the course. Try being shot at by a drunken motorist, as
I have, and you really wonder about some of these jokers. I do not
have a solution, if I did I wouldn't be sitting here, but I agree
with you that it's bad. And it's going to get worse.
Regards,
Ray.

"Tristan Bergin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does everyone else have as much hassle with cars as I do? I am constantly
abused by other road users. On one occasion the abuser overtook me, pulled
over suddenly, got out and started running across the road screaming at

me.

Quoted message said:

Only yesterday someone in a ute screamed at me to get off the road. I
shouted back as they passed, at the next roundabout they did a 360 and

ended

Quoted message said:

up behind me again and shouted "do you wanna get run over'.

Normally though its just honks and shouting. I am really fed up with it.

And

Quoted message said:

I am really concerned about my safety, I mean if someone is prepared to

turn

Quoted message said:

around and start using their car as a threat you have to question their
sanity.

Tristan

Speaking as someone who has tone millions of km driving, and now especially
changed to commuting to work by bicycle, and doing very little driving, I
can say that you are correct. I've had many drivers who deliberately tried
to run me off the road, as well as the usual thing of turning directly in
front of you, opening a car door in front of you and squeezing you at a
roundabout (there are many threads in this newsgroup covering all these
things).

Also, the aggression does not seem to be specific to any one group of
drivers, although in my opinion the deliberate intimidation is more likely
by a carload of yobbos.

As far as sanity - I've always maintained that many drivers are deranged and
should not be allowed to drive. I believe a psychiatrist specialising in
road behaviour would produce some interesting findings.

I developed an idea that how dangerous the traffic is, is proportional to
how many pubs and bars there are in the area, and the time of the week
(payday is worse) and night time. I used to ride at night for excercise, but
gave that up because of a consistent number of attempts to run me off the
road and hassle me in other ways.

Henry.

Tristan Bergin said:

Does everyone else have as much hassle with cars as I do? I am
constantly abused by other road users. On one occasion the abuser
overtook me, pulled over suddenly, got out and started running across
the road screaming at me. Only yesterday someone in a ute screamed
at me to get off the road. I shouted back as they passed, at the next
roundabout they did a 360 and ended up behind me again and shouted
"do you wanna get run over'.

Normally though its just honks and shouting. I am really fed up with
it. And I am really concerned about my safety, I mean if someone is
prepared to turn around and start using their car as a threat you
have to question their sanity.

Tristan

My experience is very different. Over 8 years of commuting in Melb's
eastern suburbs and 6 months in Sydney, I've only had angry gestures a
couple of times. A couple of honks I think. Never any shouting, abuse
or more serious road rage like you describe. Maybe I don't get as much
attention because I'm usually riding by myself, in "normal" clothes?

The only incident that comes close was when a driver in an old car
passed me very close in Carlton early one morning, then swerved in and
out of the bike lane up ahead to make a point. I caught up at the
lights, and waited right beside his driver's door, [censored] but
calmly ignoring him. With the window down, he said "Can't you take a
joke mate?" I just said "you passed me very close back there". That
was about it. He wasn't aggressive at all, probably just trying to
impress his girlfriend in the passenger side - don't know what she
thought of it.

MUCH more common for me is the semi-aggressive, careless, "I don't give
a stuff about your safety and you have no rights 'cause I'm bigger than
you" type of driving. That attitude is certainly dangerous, has
knocked me off my bike once and gets me pretty angry at times, but
really it's no different to how most mostorists treat each other...

What works for me is behaving as a vehicle almost all the time, good
positioning on the road (taking the lane when appropriate), indicating
and otherwise being predictable, looking behind, eye contact and
generally fitting in with the rest of the traffic. At lights in busy
traffic, I tend to wait in the queue of cars rather than squeeze
between/beside them. With practice, I've got a lot better at
anticipating the dangerous situations and finding ways to avoid them.
Nothing's 100% though!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> "Andrew" == Andrew Reddaway <[email hidden]> writes:

Andrew> What works for me is behaving as a vehicle almost all the
Andrew> time, good positioning on the road (taking the lane when
Andrew> appropriate), indicating and otherwise being predictable,
Andrew> looking behind, eye contact and generally fitting in with
Andrew> the rest of the traffic. At lights in busy traffic, I tend
Andrew> to wait in the queue of cars rather than squeeze
Andrew> between/beside them. With practice, I've got a lot better
Andrew> at anticipating the dangerous situations and finding ways to
Andrew> avoid them. Nothing's 100% though!

I've found that's the key. Play by the rules of the road and you get a
lot more respect. Yes there will still be [censored] heads, there always will
be, but riding like a vehicle and not like you're in a peleton goes a
long way.
--
Cheers
Euan

Tristan Bergin said:

Does everyone else have as much hassle with cars as I do? I am constantly
abused by other road users. On one occasion the abuser overtook me, pulled
over suddenly, got out and started running across the road screaming at me.
Only yesterday someone in a ute screamed at me to get off the road. I
shouted back as they passed, at the next roundabout they did a 360 and ended
up behind me again and shouted "do you wanna get run over'.

Normally though its just honks and shouting. I am really fed up with it. And
I am really concerned about my safety, I mean if someone is prepared to turn
around and start using their car as a threat you have to question their
sanity.

Tristan

You shouldn't allow this sort of thing to continue unchecked. Make sure
you get the driver's registration number and any other characteristics
of the vehicle. the location and time, and make a report to the police.

Generally, the police treat complaints such as this seriously. If it was
the first time the driver had had a complaint made about them, they
would visit the driver and have a chat about courteous behaviour on the
road.

Now if a driver seems to be getting quite a few reports such as these,
then the police may think that the person needs more than a talking to.
So, the more of us who report these incidents, the more likely the
[censored] will be identified and prosecuted.

My other strategy is not to get worked up by them. If they start tooting
the horn, just turn around and smile and wave as if they are a long lost
friend. That way they will feel that their communication strategy is
failing and hopefully cease using it.

It's strange but I find Sydney drivers to be the most courteous when it
comes to things like allowing a cyclist to merge with their traffic
lane, but there are also a greater number of fools who want to yell
abuse there. Here in Mackay, we have the opposite, they'll never slow to
let you move right and make a turn, but I rarely have anyone shout abuse
or tell me to get off the road.

Peter

--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

Peter McCallum said:

You shouldn't allow this sort of thing to continue unchecked. Make sure
you get the driver's registration number and any other characteristics
of the vehicle. the location and time, and make a report to the police.

Yeah right. Maybe in laa laa land where you live.

I could give 1-2 regos every day, don't you think the police have more
important things to do?
Multiply that by everyone who complains, and you get a full-time job with a
whole deparment. Just talking to people. Are they going to get booked? Not
unless the police actually witness them doing it, and then only if they're in
the mood.

The only way you're going to get the police to look for them would be if
someone was killed. Even assult doesn't get a raised eyebrow anymore.
--
Linux Registered User # 302622 <http://counter.li.org>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> "Buck" == Buck Rogers <[email hidden]> writes:

Buck> On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 23:47:02 +0800, Tristan Bergin

Buck> My opinion is that the roads belong to cars and larger
Buck> vehicles. Anyone who wants to prove that's not the case, or
Buck> try assert themselves can live with the danger, stress and
Buck> abuse that comes with it. That's a personal choice.

What stress? I suffer way more stress in a car on the roads than I ever
do on a bike. I don't have to worry about speed limits, traffic jams
and the like. I get loads of exercise which lowers stress even more and
I have fun.

There's no point worrying if someone's going to hit you from behind,
there's nothing that can come of such worrying so put it your mind and
enjoy. I do, every single day :-)
--
Cheers
Euan

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> "Buck" == Buck Rogers <[email hidden]> writes:

Buck> On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 23:47:02 +0800, Tristan Bergin

Buck> My opinion is that the roads belong to cars and larger
Buck> vehicles. Anyone who wants to prove that's not the case, or
Buck> try assert themselves can live with the danger, stress and
Buck> abuse that comes with it. That's a personal choice.

What stress? I suffer way more stress in a car on the roads than I ever
do on a bike. I don't have to worry about speed limits, traffic jams
and the like. I get loads of exercise which lowers stress even more and
I have fun.

There's no point worrying if someone's going to hit you from behind,
there's nothing that can come of such worrying so put it your mind and
enjoy. I do, every single day :-)
--
Cheers
Euan

Ray Peace said:

Tristan Bergin said:

Does everyone else have as much hassle with cars as I do? I am constantly
abused by other road users. On one occasion the abuser overtook me,
pulled
over suddenly, got out and started running across the road screaming
at me.
Only yesterday someone in a ute screamed at me to get off the road. I
shouted back as they passed, at the next roundabout they did a 360 and
ended
up behind me again and shouted "do you wanna get run over'.

Normally though its just honks and shouting. I am really fed up with
it. And
I am really concerned about my safety, I mean if someone is prepared
to turn
around and start using their car as a threat you have to question their
sanity.

Tristan

Good Morning,
Par for the course. Try being shot at by a drunken motorist, as
I have, and you really wonder about some of these jokers. I do not have
a solution, if I did I wouldn't be sitting here, but I agree with you
that it's bad. And it's going to get worse.
Regards,
Ray.

Nah its going to get better. At least in victoria where pretty soon no
one will have a licence or a full tank. Actually I find being yelled at
very rare.... and they NEVER seem as keen on confrontation once you
catch em and ask em to step outside.
Dave

hippy said:

http://thehippy.net/nucleus/index.php?itemid=287

Yeah, I had the same experience riding with my son, two abreast on a
Sunday morning, multi-lane road, hardly any traffic, get a blast from
some idiot behind us who couldn't be bothered changing lanes to pass. He
eventually passed us and then stopped at the red light about 100 metres
ahead.

I rode up beside him and said that we had a right to ride on the road
and two abreast. I expected some sort of angry response but his wife
launched into him from the passenger seat, "I just told him that" she
says. I'll bet he copped it all the way home, well here's hoping anyway.

Peter
--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

John Tserkezis said:

Peter McCallum said:

You shouldn't allow this sort of thing to continue unchecked. Make sure
you get the driver's registration number and any other characteristics
of the vehicle. the location and time, and make a report to the police.

Yeah right. Maybe in laa laa land where you live.

Seemed like a fairly successful strategy when I lived and worked in
Sydney/Brisbane/Melbourne.

Quoted message said:

I could give 1-2 regos every day, don't you think the police have more
important things to do?

I'm talking about deliberate attempts to intimidate you, rather than
just poor driving. It depends on the cop and how you approach them.
Plenty of them ride bikes and would probably welcome the opportunity to
catch up with one of these guys. It's a matter of how they prioritise
things.

Quoted message said:

Multiply that by everyone who complains, and you get a full-time job with a
whole deparment. Just talking to people. Are they going to get booked? Not
unless the police actually witness them doing it, and then only if they're in
the mood.

How do you think governments decide to allocate resources to problems?
It's the old squeaky wheel thing. If cyclists keep quiet about being
harassed then nobody is going to know about it.

The other day I reported a B-Double driver who tried to squeeze me off
the road after giving a blast on his horn. I went round to the police
station and made a report. The officer on duty at the counter was very
keen on taking the report, he said that they had had similar reports
from motorists about trucks owned by the company. When I got home I
phoned the transport company and spoke to the owner, he said that police
had already spoken to him about my incident. It puts them on notice that
people are watching and willing to challenge bad behaviour.

Quoted message said:

The only way you're going to get the police to look for them would be if
someone was killed. Even assult doesn't get a raised eyebrow anymore.

That's your opinion. Your approach seems to be like many people who
think that they have no power to change anything. I have a more positive
outlook I suppose.

Peter

--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

John Tserkezis said:

Peter McCallum said:

You shouldn't allow this sort of thing to continue unchecked. Make sure
you get the driver's registration number and any other characteristics
of the vehicle. the location and time, and make a report to the police.

Yeah right. Maybe in laa laa land where you live.

I could give 1-2 regos every day, don't you think the police have more
important things to do?

This is important.
I can only suggest that you make the complait at the local police
station and follow it up. If nothing happens, then write to the
commissioner.

The other 2c is that if different people complain about the same
person/vehicle, then it is not just "your word against them".

This is really how bicyclist get counted, by showing more than one
person is affected.

Peter McCallum said:

Quoted message said:

I could give 1-2 regos every day, don't you think the police have more
important things to do?

Quoted message said:

I'm talking about deliberate attempts to intimidate you, rather than
just poor driving.

Fine, that makes it one every couple of days or so. Still lots.

Quoted message said:

The other day I reported a B-Double driver who tried to squeeze me off
the road after giving a blast on his horn. I went round to the police
station and made a report. The officer on duty at the counter was very
keen on taking the report, he said that they had had similar reports
from motorists about trucks owned by the company. When I got home I
phoned the transport company and spoke to the owner, he said that police
had already spoken to him about my incident. It puts them on notice that
people are watching and willing to challenge bad behaviour.

Very good. But has that trucking company's drivers improved in their driving
habits?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The only way you're going to get the police to look for them would be if
someone was killed. Even assult doesn't get a raised eyebrow anymore.

Quoted message said:

That's your opinion. Your approach seems to be like many people who
think that they have no power to change anything. I have a more positive
outlook I suppose.

Again very nice, but as they say about wounded beasts, if you don't kill
them, you only make them madder. Next time that cager sees a cyclist, he's
_more_ likely to do something.
--
Linux Registered User # 302622 <http://counter.li.org>

John Tserkezis said:

Quoted message said:

That's your opinion. Your approach seems to be like many people who
think that they have no power to change anything. I have a more positive
outlook I suppose.

Again very nice, but as they say about wounded beasts, if you don't kill
them, you only make them madder. Next time that cager sees a cyclist, he's
_more_ likely to do something.

I was involved in a campaign to prevent Qld Main Roads building a new
road here in Laa Laa Land a few years back. The new road was going to
take 95 per cent of the traffic away from a strip shopping centre.

Most of the businesses there were worried that they'd go broke without
any passing trade. But when it came to offering public support, most
were paranoid about the consequences that would flow from publicly
opposing a government department.

In the end one or two businesses out of over 100, and a few individuals
funded a court case that ultimately led to Main Roads canning the
project.

I could never understand why those small business owners were so scared.
If they were cow cockies, they would have been delivering loads of cow
[censored] on the steps of parliament and making a huge fuss about the
government's lack of concern for iconic Australians.

What you are suggesting is much the same.
1. We'll never win, so why bother.
2. If we protest we'll only make things worse.

I've seen some very successful protest movements over the years. Apart
from the East-West Connector Road issue above, there was a group that
organised via aus.bicycle in the early 1990s who eventually had a new
bridge built to carry cyclists and pedestrians in Indooroopilly. We also
got the Qld government to allow bicycles to be carried on trains in
Brissy in 1990. In Mackay we've stopped the council removing bike lanes
from busy streets. None of those things would have been achieved if
people didn't stand up and be counted.

Peter

--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

John Tserkezis said:

Peter McCallum wrote:

Yeah right. Maybe in laa laa land where you live.

just cos it dont werk for you is no need to assume on all our behalfs, John.
In such a scenario its far more effective if you 'phone a friend' go to station and make complaint and then get mate to complain against same driver as well. It gets flagged by I/I and MUST be followed up.
Not that one has ever pulled such a stunt, mind 🙄
but it does help having friends in blue 😄

F"detached, not 'connected'"Dutch

Andrew Reddaway said:

<snip>
he said "Can't you take a joke mate?" I just said "you passed me very close back there". That was about it. He wasn't aggressive at all, probably just trying to impress his girlfriend in the passenger side - don't know what she thought of it.

hindsight being a wonderful thing, the best retort is one that not only emabarrasses em but shuts em up too, like...

"Well, obviously she can judging by the size of your [censored]".

Once had a guy so determined to fang past me at lights, as i waved my little finger at him to reflect his endowment, that he was so busy glaring at me in rearview mirror as i inevitably passed him again down the road, that he rear-ended the car in front! 😄😄😄
Didnt stop to smile and gloat.
MUCH! bwahahahahahahah

F"justice serves those who remain calm"Dutch

flyingdutch said:

F"justice serves those who remain calm"Dutch

I'm in trouble then..

hippy
"Glenvale WIN WIN WIN GRRRRR ARRRRRRRRRRR!!!"

flyingdutch said:

Once had a guy so determined to fang past me at lights, as i waved my
little finger at him to reflect his endowment, that he was so busy
glaring at me in rearview mirror as i inevitably passed him again down
the road, that he rear-ended the car in front! 😄😄😄
Didnt stop to smile and gloat.
MUCH! bwahahahahahahah

F"justice serves those who remain calm"Dutch

My personal favourite in this genre was when I was cycling home from
work in Sydney. I'm stopped at the front of the queue at lights when
this huge semi starts nudging forward towards my back wheel. I moved
forward a little, he nudges closer alternately accelerating and putting
on the brakes.

I lost it and started motioning to him to get out of the cab if he was
looking for a fight (with every intention of riding off and leaving him
in my wake if he did).

All of a sudden a motorist gets out of his car in another lane and walks
over to the truck. I couldn't believe it. A complete stranger getting
involved and telling the driver what a jerk he was. This was SYDNEY,
wasn't it? Well, my regard for the social responsibilty of Sydneysiders
was restored when I realised that the driver wasn't telling the truckie
to stop harrassing me, he was merely pointing out that the
stopping/starting had broken the cables holding down his load of
newsprint (rolls of newspaper weighing about 1000kg each).

The truckie then lost interest in me. I spent the next minute or so
riding around his vehicle laughing. It was total justice.

Peter

--
Peter McCallum
Mackay Qld AUSTRALIA

Peter McCallum wrote:

(snip)

Quoted message said:

None of those things would have been achieved if
people didn't stand up and be counted.

Ok, you've twisted my arm. I'll keep a voice recorder strapped to me, and
I'll take notes as I go along.
--
Linux Registered User # 302622 <http://counter.li.org>