Guys, I just spent an hour trying to install new Vittoria 23C tires in place of old 25's. I just could not get them on the wheel. I pinched out a hole in a tire trying to fit it in there and had to be extra careful replacing it so as not to do it again. I am finally finished and wondering if I go riding will I get a snake bite from improper installation. If they didn't blow at 100 psi, are they less likely to snap when I get on the bike? Also, should I go back to 25's or just let the new rubber stretch a bit? Thanks.
Why bother? What advantages do 700x23 have over 25s? The only things I can think of is perhaps slightly less weight (maybe) and that 23s may be cheaper as alot more of places, especially mail order, have sales on this size.
Otherwise, get some good 700x25, pump them up to 100psi or so and RIDE!
Guys, I just spent an hour trying to install new Vittoria 23C tires in place of old 25's. I just could not get them on the wheel. I pinched out a hole in a tire trying to fit it in there and had to be extra careful replacing it so as not to do it again. I am finally finished and wondering if I go riding will I get a snake bite from improper installation. If they didn't blow at 100 psi, are they less likely to snap when I get on the bike? Also, should I go back to 25's or just let the new rubber stretch a bit? Thanks.
What happens if (when) you get a flat? I don't like the idea of riding with tires that difficult to mount for that reason.
Guys, I just spent an hour trying to install new Vittoria 23C tires in place of old 25's. I just could not get them on the wheel. I pinched out a hole in a tire trying to fit it in there and had to be extra careful replacing it so as not to do it again. I am finally finished and wondering if I go riding will I get a snake bite from improper installation. If they didn't blow at 100 psi, are they less likely to snap when I get on the bike? Also, should I go back to 25's or just let the new rubber stretch a bit? Thanks.
You might try using a smaller tube also - usually 23 and 25 will be the same but maybe you had 25-28mm tubes that make it difficult to get in a 23mm tire.
If not the tubes, then it's just your tire choice (since you don't sound like a beginner at this) some tires just run tight. Any rim that works with a 25 will work with a 23.
Guys, I just spent an hour trying to install new Vittoria 23C tires in place of old 25's. I just could not get them on the wheel. I pinched out a hole in a tire trying to fit it in there and had to be extra careful replacing it so as not to do it again. I am finally finished and wondering if I go riding will I get a snake bite from improper installation. If they didn't blow at 100 psi, are they less likely to snap when I get on the bike? Also, should I go back to 25's or just let the new rubber stretch a bit? Thanks.
I just can not understand the dominance of 23mm tires. You can get first class 25's (thank god), so the speed advantage of 23's are going to be invisible to anybody but a seasoned racer. And as you discovered, changing 23's is much more difficult than changing 25's and some wheelsets are more difficult than others. With 25's you get a better ride, better flat protection and a performance hit that is arbitrarily close to zero. I like 25's so much I went to 28's.
I used to encounter that problem with wired-on clinchers. I should mention that I have always used 700x20c, but for the last 10 years I've used folding tires which have mostly done away with that problem. The other day however, someone brought me an old Canondale R300 with Mavic rims and 700x20c kevlar beads. I used a nifty little tool I've had for years but never had a chance to use, it's a tire lever with an extension that connects it to the skewer. I did see it at the local Performance store not too long ago so I know that they still make it. The tool is used in the same way as a regular tire lever (hook under the bead, press down) but instead of hooking it onto a spoke, you pull out the extension and snap it to the skewer. Then, with a little spit for lubrication, you rotate the tool around the rim and presto! You can use it in reverse to hook the tire back in place afterwards.
What happens if (when) you get a flat? I don't like the idea of riding with tires that difficult to mount for that reason.
I agree. I had some Continental Avenue tires for my MTB that I liked a lot. But I got rid of them after struggling to remount after a flat on a cold evening. Most tires loosen up after mounting and remounting several times, but not these.
Why bother? What advantages do 700x23 have over 25s? The only things I can think of is perhaps slightly less weight (maybe) and that 23s may be cheaper as alot more of places, especially mail order, have sales on this size.
The weight is negligible. Price is the main issue -- 23mm are on sale all the time, while 25mm are rarely available, let alone on sale.
28mm or larger would be even better, but most tires bigger than 25mm have stouter casings with greater rolling resistance.
I'm surprised how many frames won't accept even a 25mm tire though. There's no reason for this other than a minimalist, racy appearance.
"Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
On Wed, 17 May 2006 12:23:11 -0700, bfd wrote:
I'm surprised how many frames won't accept even a 25mm tire though. There's no reason for this other than a minimalist, racy appearance.
Therein lies the problem with tires larger than 25mm. Many people recommend the Rivendell/Panaracer Roly Poly tire, which is a true 27mm or 28mm wide tire. However, as you noted, few frames can accept it. Still, its even surprising that many won't ride 25mm as the comfort level, especially when pumped up to 95-100psi is substantially greater than a 23mm, all without the lost of any performance.
I have to disagree with just about every poster in this thread. I can change two 23mm tires on my bikes faster than I can change one 25mm tire on my wife's hybrid. That "extra" 2mm certainly doesn't make the job any easier. The big difference is simply the different individual tires. I use folders on my bikes- Contis and Axial Pros. They slide right on and off and I can't ever recall pinching a tube installing them. The kevlar bead Kendas on her bike fit a heckuva lot tighter and I know I've pinched tubes at least twice when reinstalling them after a repair. Obviously, YMMV.
I remember, that I bought once some Vittoria non folding 23c tires and they were extremely difficult to get in. They semt too small for the rim. (I ended ruining them and buying other tires) compared to non folding "maxiss something" or whatever (conti Michelin Hutchinson) non folding/folding I bought since.
Guys, I just spent an hour trying to install new Vittoria 23C tires in place of old 25's. I just could not get them on the wheel. I pinched out a hole in a tire trying to fit it in there and had to be extra careful replacing it so as not to do it again. I am finally finished and wondering if I go riding will I get a snake bite from improper installation. If they didn't blow at 100 psi, are they less likely to snap when I get on the bike? Also, should I go back to 25's or just let the new rubber stretch a bit?
You've discovered a phenomenon that's been discussed here often. There are certain rim/tire combinations that make mounting/dismounting extremely difficult. This is due not only to the tire's bead diameter and stiffness, but also to the depth of the valley in the rim. You don't say what rim on which you mounted the Vittoria, but one brand noted for mounting difficulty is Matrix (Trek).
The worst combination I've ever faced was Trek Matrix ISO-CIIs and Michelin Hi-Lite Bi-Synergic 700x20s. I recall one time when I flatted one of my riding companions said she timed me trying to get this tire off the rim at 21 minutes.
BTW, I just took a look at the Vittoria web site. Several of their clinchers are listed as having wire beads, but many others say nothing about bead material and/or foldability. What type are yours?
"Mr. C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
I used to encounter that problem with wired-on clinchers. I should mention that I have always used 700x20c, but for the last 10 years I've used folding tires which have mostly done away with that problem. The other day however, someone brought me an old Canondale R300 with Mavic rims and 700x20c kevlar beads. I used a nifty little tool I've had for years but never had a chance to use, it's a tire lever with an extension that connects it to the skewer. I did see it at the local Performance store not too long ago so I know that they still make it. The tool is used in the same way as a regular tire lever (hook under the bead, press down) but instead of hooking it onto a spoke, you pull out the extension and snap it to the skewer. Then, with a little spit for lubrication, you rotate the tool around the rim and presto! You can use it in reverse to hook the tire back in place afterwards.
Guys, I just spent an hour trying to install new Vittoria 23C tires in place of old 25's. I just could not get them on the wheel. I pinched out a hole in a tire trying to fit it in there and had to be extra careful replacing it so as not to do it again. I am finally finished and wondering if I go riding will I get a snake bite from improper installation. If they didn't blow at 100 psi, are they less likely to snap when I get on the bike? Also, should I go back to 25's or just let the new rubber stretch a bit? Thanks.
I just can not understand the dominance of 23mm tires. You can get first class 25's (thank god), so the speed advantage of 23's are going to be invisible to anybody but a seasoned racer. And as you discovered, changing 23's is much more difficult than changing 25's and some wheelsets are more difficult than others.
Even though I agree with you that 25's offer a better pinch flat protection, I have to disagree with changing the tires. I have varying degrees of difficulty mounting tires and it all depends on the rim/tire combination. My Vredestein 700x23c / Velocity Fusion combo is much easier than my Kenda 700x26c / Velocity Aerohead combo. With 25's you get a better
Quoted message said:
ride, better flat protection and a performance hit that is arbitrarily close to zero. I like 25's so much I went to 28's.
Matt O'Toole <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:
Quoted message said:
bfd said:
Why bother? What advantages do 700x23 have over 25s? The only things I can think of is perhaps slightly less weight (maybe) and that 23s may be cheaper as alot more of places, especially mail order, have sales on this size.
The weight is negligible. Price is the main issue -- 23mm are on sale all the time, while 25mm are rarely available, let alone on sale.
28mm or larger would be even better, but most tires bigger than 25mm have stouter casings with greater rolling resistance.
I'm surprised how many frames won't accept even a 25mm tire though. There's no reason for this other than a minimalist, racy appearance.
Matt O.
I only went to the 23c's because that's the size armored tire the shop had in stock at the moment. After going back and 'counselling' them on selling me 25 innertubes to use with the 23s, I got the right size tubes. I've not had a puncture in about 750 miles.
That's with 240lbs+ on them, and having replaced the rear wheel with a stouter one to keep from breaking spokes.
The 23 armored tires were also noticeably cheaper than the 25s.
