Probiotics?

In article <[email hidden]>,

drceephd said:

"EK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Don't you think that if cells of the inner layer of the stomach that are
made of proteins and such can survive in digestive fluids, so could the
bacteria made of same or similar proteins and such, plus protected by rigid
cell walls? Even if some bacteria you take with those preparations don't
survive through the stomach, some do, and that is usually enough to help
establish normal microflora.

The human stomach can and does make a pH change depending upon what
food you are eating. Normally the stomach will go alkaline to allow
the carbohydrate enzymes to digest the carbs in your food, then over
about a 30 minute period, the stomach will go acidic, down to around a
2 pH.

This does not match the information I've been able to find, which says
that the stomach is always an acid environment, and the pH is around 1.

As opposed to the small intestine, which does have an alkaline pH.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Buy the way, if you put some stomach jiuce on
your hand, it woun't burn a hole in your skin. Do you see my point? :-)
EK

You are wrong there. The strong acid combined with the action of the
pepsin would most definately eat a hole in your skin.

Over time -- but not instantly. Even bulemics take a while to really
manage to screw up their teeth with all that HCl.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

[email hidden] (PF Riley) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(drceephd) said:

The human stomach can and does make a pH change depending upon what
food you are eating. Normally the stomach will go alkaline to allow
the carbohydrate enzymes to digest the carbs in your food, then over
about a 30 minute period, the stomach will go acidic, down to around a
2 pH. This pH change stops the carbohydrate enzymes and activates the
proteolytic ( protein ) digesting enzymes. This also affects the
bacteria and may or may not kill the critters. The bacteria may just
become dormant.

The gastric pH drops after a meal because of the food in the stomach,
not because the stomach is intentionally lowering the pH. In fact,
eating stimulates acid production in the stomach.

PF

You are mis-informed. I have read numerous articles in the medical
journals which confirm what I am saying, that is, that the stomach is
capable of making the necessary pH adjustments to completely digest
our foods. However, the authors are not looking for that information,
and never mention it or comment on it, even though they report it. It
is the old saying, you only see what you are looking for. One of the
more recent ones was where the authors intubated a person and poured
in micronized fat to see what whould happen in the stomach. They
reported the pH change but never commented about it.

Secondly, it is only logical for the stomach to make these needed pH
changes. Otherwise, we could not, and would not be able to properly
digest our foods. The amylase enzymes of the mouth are only active in
an alkaline environment and once acidified they cannot be reactivated.

The stomach must prepare what we eat for the enzymes of the small
intestine. The carbs must be reduced to diglycerides, the protein to
smaller protein particles, and just a little fat digestion ( humans
were not meant to eat fatty foodstuffs) . The small intestine enzymes
then reduce the diglycerides to monoglcerides, the protein partices to
amino acids, and the fat to glycerol and fatty acids.

DrC PhD.

I only speak for myself but I am repeating what hundreds of others have
stated.

If you want people to read your posts, make it real
interesting, real easy or both.

If you do not care if people read your post then why bother
posting at all?

As far as your "quote marks" that is entirely up to your browser, your
personal politics and your posting hygiene. Bottom posters display their
lack of courtesy in these areas.

Now remember you said this was the last you'll say on this....LOL

"Scott Coutts" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Ok, now I think maybe this is a troll, so this is the last I'll say
about it:

Gymmy Bob wrote:

The previous posts tell the story if somebody wants the history.

As I said, threads are often broken. Especially when you're reading ones
that are old. The previous messages are very often lost and these 'cut'
discussions will lose their context and meaning when this happens. I
like to think of all this stuff that goes around the usenet as being
useful not just now, but in the future. If an article is expired from
one person's news server but not anothers, then you end up with a new
thread labeled, for example "Re:

(drceephd) said:

[email hidden] (PF Riley) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(drceephd) said:

The human stomach can and does make a pH change depending upon what
food you are eating. Normally the stomach will go alkaline to allow
the carbohydrate enzymes to digest the carbs in your food, then over
about a 30 minute period, the stomach will go acidic, down to around a
2 pH. This pH change stops the carbohydrate enzymes and activates the
proteolytic ( protein ) digesting enzymes. This also affects the
bacteria and may or may not kill the critters. The bacteria may just
become dormant.

The gastric pH drops after a meal because of the food in the stomach,
not because the stomach is intentionally lowering the pH. In fact,
eating stimulates acid production in the stomach.

PF

You are mis-informed. I have read numerous articles in the medical
journals which confirm what I am saying, that is, that the stomach is
capable of making the necessary pH adjustments to completely digest
our foods.

Then surely you can cite just one such article?

(By the way, I meant to say above, of course, that "the gastric pH
RISES after a meal..."😉

Quoted message said:

However, the authors are not looking for that information,
and never mention it or comment on it, even though they report it. It
is the old saying, you only see what you are looking for. One of the
more recent ones was where the authors intubated a person and poured
in micronized fat to see what whould happen in the stomach. They
reported the pH change but never commented about it.

Again, certainly if you "pour" one solution into another the pH will
change. It doesn't mean the container had anything to do with it.

Quoted message said:

Secondly, it is only logical for the stomach to make these needed pH
changes. Otherwise, we could not, and would not be able to properly
digest our foods.

The stomach scretes hydrogen ions. Tell me how it otherwise can adjust
pH values?

Quoted message said:

The amylase enzymes of the mouth are only active in
an alkaline environment and once acidified they cannot be reactivated.

Well then, it's a good thing the pancreas dumps plenty of amylase into
the alkaline lumen of the duodenum.

Quoted message said:

The stomach must prepare what we eat for the enzymes of the small
intestine. The carbs must be reduced to diglycerides, the protein to
smaller protein particles, and just a little fat digestion ( humans
were not meant to eat fatty foodstuffs)

We weren't? Aside from this presumption of intelligent design, how
else do you think humans survived on a planet in which we have only
known abundance in the last few seconds of the day or our entire
existence? By consuming the LEAST calorie-dense foods? I think not.
Why else would fatty food taste so damn good? Would a caveman who
needs to store up energy and will likely die from trauma or an
infectious disease by his 30's really care about atherosclerosis? Or
would he gladly chase away hyenas to suck up fatty marrow from an
abandoned lion kill?

Quoted message said:

The small intestine enzymes
then reduce the diglycerides to monoglcerides, the protein partices to
amino acids, and the fat to glycerol and fatty acids.

Don't forget that amylase is there too in the small intestine to pick
up any starches that the salivary amylase couldn't take care of in the
acidic stomach.

PF

Quoted message said:

Now remember you said this was the last you'll say on this....LOL

Yup.

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Probiotics?
From: [email hidden] (PF Riley)
Date: 12/30/03 2:51 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Don't forget that amylase is there too in the small intestine to pick
up any starches that the salivary amylase couldn't take care of in the
acidic stomach.

PF

Salivary amylase, ptyalin, is active only in a slightly alkaline pH. The pH of
healthy human saliva is slightly alkaline, 7.1 ( Refer to Guyton on that.)
Once acidifed the ptyalin cannot be reactived. If the stomach is always
acidic, as you claim, then all carbohydrate digestion has to be completed in
the mouth and throat, or by the time the bolus hits the acidic stomach.

Absolutely not true.

Additionally, the human amylase enzymes have almost no capacity to digest
starch. It is our friendly intestinal bacteria that do it for us, don't you
know?

DrC PhD..

"PF Riley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(drceephd) said:

[email hidden] (PF Riley) wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On 25 Dec 2003 12:21:05 -0800, [email hidden] (drceephd) wrote:
>
>The human stomach can and does make a pH change depending upon what
>food you are eating. Normally the stomach will go alkaline to allow
>the carbohydrate enzymes to digest the carbs in your food, then over
>about a 30 minute period, the stomach will go acidic, down to around a
>2 pH. This pH change stops the carbohydrate enzymes and activates the
>proteolytic ( protein ) digesting enzymes. This also affects the
>bacteria and may or may not kill the critters. The bacteria may just
>become dormant.

The gastric pH drops after a meal because of the food in the stomach,
not because the stomach is intentionally lowering the pH. In fact,
eating stimulates acid production in the stomach.

PF

You are mis-informed. I have read numerous articles in the medical
journals which confirm what I am saying, that is, that the stomach is
capable of making the necessary pH adjustments to completely digest
our foods.

Then surely you can cite just one such article?

(By the way, I meant to say above, of course, that "the gastric pH
RISES after a meal..."😉

Quoted message said:

However, the authors are not looking for that information,
and never mention it or comment on it, even though they report it. It
is the old saying, you only see what you are looking for. One of the
more recent ones was where the authors intubated a person and poured
in micronized fat to see what whould happen in the stomach. They
reported the pH change but never commented about it.

Again, certainly if you "pour" one solution into another the pH will
change. It doesn't mean the container had anything to do with it.

Quoted message said:

Secondly, it is only logical for the stomach to make these needed pH
changes. Otherwise, we could not, and would not be able to properly
digest our foods.

The stomach scretes hydrogen ions. Tell me how it otherwise can adjust
pH values?

Quoted message said:

The amylase enzymes of the mouth are only active in
an alkaline environment and once acidified they cannot be reactivated.

Well then, it's a good thing the pancreas dumps plenty of amylase into
the alkaline lumen of the duodenum.

Quoted message said:

The stomach must prepare what we eat for the enzymes of the small
intestine. The carbs must be reduced to diglycerides, the protein to
smaller protein particles, and just a little fat digestion ( humans
were not meant to eat fatty foodstuffs)

We weren't? Aside from this presumption of intelligent design, how
else do you think humans survived on a planet in which we have only
known abundance in the last few seconds of the day or our entire
existence? By consuming the LEAST calorie-dense foods? I think not.
Why else would fatty food taste so damn good? Would a caveman who
needs to store up energy and will likely die from trauma or an
infectious disease by his 30's really care about atherosclerosis? Or
would he gladly chase away hyenas to suck up fatty marrow from an
abandoned lion kill?

Quoted message said:

The small intestine enzymes
then reduce the diglycerides to monoglcerides, the protein partices to
amino acids, and the fat to glycerol and fatty acids.

Don't forget that amylase is there too in the small intestine to pick
up any starches that the salivary amylase couldn't take care of in the
acidic stomach.

PF

PF wrote

The carbs must be reduced to diglycerides

WHat do you mean ? This sounds like nonsense to me

N10

"N10" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

PF wrote

The carbs must be reduced to diglycerides

WHat do you mean ? This sounds like nonsense to me

I think he meant disaccharides, or more likely monosaccharides.