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Pro Tour discussion

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Road Cycling
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27 April 2004
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27 April 2004
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Van Hoorebeeck
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  1. cycling4all.comcycling4all.com has a preliminary look at the
    calendar and point scales

    - Based on a calculations with 2003 results they conclude
    that year-round races are disfavoured, as opposed to the
    intentions. I don' t think this is true, Zabel and
    Petacchi fall away from the top of the ranking because
    stage results become marginal in the new calculation. The
    new calculation is not sprinter-friendly. This really is a
    drastic change.

    -But we see those who scored in (a few) main events
    (GTs/HC+ World Cup) come to the foreground (Vino, Hamilton,
    Ullrich), as opposed to those who score in whatever they
    race . This in istelf is rather good. But the change is
    really big, with the rudimentary points system limited to
    just these PT events.

    - Apparently teams will gain points on the team ranking in
    each event. This is remarkable, and reflects who was the
    teams' negotiator (Manolo Saiz). Well his colleagues who
    appointed him shouldn't be surprised or complain now. Also
    the lesser importance of single day racing in general is
    probably influenced by his strong position.

    - The regional aspect probably triggers most discussion. If
    they want promote cycling elsewhere, why keep 2 similar
    long races in Switzerland, instead of promiting one in
    Americas or Asia , as is the case in Poland ? Here in
    Belgium the 1.1 races are seen as evident victims of the
    new system (especially as we lack important stage races).
    The Flemish style racer has 3 events left in the new
    system. It makes more sense to build a team with men for
    the stage races and 'climbing' classics, and ride through
    the few other races (... as Saiz has always done)

    - I dont wanna blame Saiz for everything, as it are the UCI
    who are the motor in this.

  2. Van Hoorebeeck Bart said:

    cycling4all.comcycling4all.com has a preliminary look at the
    calendar and point scales

    This is not a well thought out plan.

  3. Robert Chung schreef:

    Quoted message said:
    Van Hoorebeeck Bart said:

    cycling4all.comcycling4all.com has a preliminary look at the
    calendar and point scales

    This is not a well thought out plan.

    Dear Robert

    Your out-of-office automatic reply funcion is still active.

    Regards, BVH

  4. "Van Hoorebeeck Bart" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    cycling4all.comcycling4all.com has a preliminary look at the
    calendar and point scales

    - Based on a calculations with 2003 results they conclude
    that year-round races are disfavoured, as opposed to the
    intentions. I don' t think this is true, Zabel and
    Petacchi fall away from the top of the ranking because
    stage results become marginal in the new calculation.
    The new calculation is not sprinter-friendly. This
    really is a drastic change.

    -But we see those who scored in (a few) main events
    (GTs/HC+ World Cup) come to the foreground (Vino,
    Hamilton, Ullrich), as opposed to those who score in
    whatever they race . This in istelf is rather good. But
    the change is really big, with the rudimentary points
    system limited to just these PT events.

    - Apparently teams will gain points on the team ranking in
    each event. This is remarkable, and reflects who was the
    teams' negotiator (Manolo Saiz). Well his colleagues who
    appointed him shouldn't be surprised or complain now.
    Also the lesser importance of single day racing in
    general is probably influenced by his strong position.

    - The regional aspect probably triggers most discussion.
    If they want promote cycling elsewhere, why keep 2
    similar long races in Switzerland, instead of promiting
    one in Americas or Asia , as is the case in Poland ?
    Here in Belgium the 1.1 races are seen as evident
    victims of the new system (especially as we lack
    important stage races). The Flemish style racer has 3
    events left in the new system. It makes more sense to
    build a team with men for the stage races and 'climbing'
    classics, and ride through the few other races (... as
    Saiz has always done)

    - I dont wanna blame Saiz for everything, as it are the
    UCI who are the motor in this.


    The most telling aspect is that for a reorganization to
    reward the "season long" riders, there are 11 single day
    races, not counting the world championships, out of ~150-200
    racing days. Ridiculously too much emphasis on stage racing.
    I like it the way it is now. -MIke

  5. Van Hoorebeeck Bart said:

    cycling4all.comcycling4all.com has a preliminary look at the
    calendar and point scales

    - Based on a calculations with 2003 results they conclude
    that year-round races are disfavoured, as opposed to the
    intentions. I don' t think this is true, Zabel and
    Petacchi fall away from the top of the ranking because
    stage results become marginal in the new calculation. The
    new calculation is not sprinter-friendly. This really is
    a drastic change.

    -But we see those who scored in (a few) main events
    (GTs/HC+ World Cup) come to the foreground (Vino, Hamilton,
    Ullrich), as opposed to those who score in whatever they
    race . This in istelf is rather good. But the change is
    really big, with the rudimentary points system limited to
    just these PT events.

    - Apparently teams will gain points on the team ranking in
    each event. This is remarkable, and reflects who was the
    teams' negotiator (Manolo Saiz). Well his colleagues who
    appointed him shouldn't be surprised or complain now.
    Also the lesser importance of single day racing in
    general is probably influenced by his strong position.

    - The regional aspect probably triggers most discussion. If
    they want promote cycling elsewhere, why keep 2 similar
    long races in Switzerland, instead of promiting one in
    Americas or Asia , as is the case in Poland ? Here in
    Belgium the 1.1 races are seen as evident victims of the
    new system (especially as we lack important stage races).
    The Flemish style racer has 3 events left in the new
    system. It makes more sense to build a team with men for
    the stage races and 'climbing' classics, and ride through
    the few other races (... as Saiz has always done)

    - I dont wanna blame Saiz for everything, as it are the UCI
    who are the motor in this.

    When first Hein V. started talking about this "pro tour"
    possibility last year, I understood it was a way to get rid
    of the miserable wild card invitation system, that managed
    to have poor teams like jean delatour (now rags semences)
    invited at the TdF instead of the Road Race World Champion's
    team. Also, it seemed a good way to revive historically
    important events like the Giro, that in the last few years
    had been skipped by too many teams.

    But what I see now does not correspond at all to what seemed
    Hein's early intention.

    To me, it seems there are 3 main flaws in the whole Pro-
    Tour concept:
    1) It still keeps too much space open for local wild cards.
    18 teams systematically registered to all the main events
    are too few. This leaves space for other 4 non performing
    frog teams at the TdF. Since french cyclists and teams
    are becoming less and less competetive, what's the point
    about having almost 30 useless riders at the most famous
    race in the world? They reserved only 4 places for
    Italian pro teams, but the sponsor money here is such
    that there could be space for at least 5, maybe 6 top
    teams. Also just 2 for Belgium is really too few. Are
    they going to leave Chocolade Jacque, Landbouwkrediet,
    Caldirola and Domina out of this thing?

    2) As noted by cycling4all, you and others, the Pro Tour is
    too much based on stage racing. This goes against the
    cycling tradition, that is made essentially of 1 day
    races. Only the 10 present WC races, plus Worlds, G-W and
    FW are definitely too few. You talk about classic Flemish
    1.1 events like Het Wolk, E3 and Grote Sheldeprijs being
    dropped, which surely is a sad thing, but even worst is
    the fact that the other 2 present 1.HC races had been
    dropped as well. I can't talk much about the GP Ouest
    France, a race I have watched just once, but the Giro del
    Lazio is really a great traditional race, which had been
    existing for about 80 years, with great winners in the
    past and still more recently and a really wonderful
    parcours, which includes a few steep climbs, like the
    cobbled Campi d'Annibale ("Hannibal's Fields) which
    really reminds the Muur or the Oude Kwaremont and, just a
    few kms from the race finish, the worst cobbled road out
    of Northern France, the Old Appia Road. There should have
    been at least other 10 one day races (what about
    Henninger Turm? and the Classique des Alpes? K-B-K?
    Brabantse Pijl?) in a well balanced "Pro Tour".

    3) There was really no need to change the official rankings.
    The present UCI classment and the World Cup had been an
    important term of comparison for all the cycling fans. It
    would have been much better to just create a large number
    of top teams obliged to run all the races while keeping
    the old ranking formulas.

    All in all this seems to me a "coup" by the part of the
    spanish teams and the others who like the (supposedly)
    modern way of racing, against the Italian and Belgian races
    and teams. I think that the 2 most important and traditional
    cycling federations should boycott this whole [censored]. It's
    really a nonsense that the one ds who is most hated in the
    peloton (scumbag saiz) is the one who negotiated the whole
    thing. They presented the Pro-Tour in a way that looked like
    its goal was to preserve racing in those countries where it
    was disregarded by new cycling countries, but in fact it
    does just the opposite, it draws away from there. But, given
    that Belgium and Italy is where the most money around
    cycling and the main sponsors are, I think that there is
    still space for major changes in the Pro Tour, in case the
    right people complain with the appropriate strenght.

  6. I agree with the motivation behind Hein's actions with the
    PT. To want to give an incentive (or penalty) for the top
    riders to seriously ride a fuller season is laudable.
    However, I'm not certain that this is the best formula from
    a sporting perspective. With so few major one day races
    figuring into the mix, I'm not certain that a better balance
    will be struck. Certain regions seem to get a reaming.

    Questions. Wasn't there a requirement in the 1970s and 1980s
    that top riders race in certain races (classics mostly)?
    Couldn't they use something akin to a points system as used
    in the old Super Prestige Pernod to force riders focusing on
    one major race to at least decide to be competitive in
    summer (tours) and either spring or fall races?

    "Van Hoorebeeck Bart" <[email hidden]>
    wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    cycling4all.comcycling4all.com has a preliminary look at the
    calendar and point scales

    - Based on a calculations with 2003 results they conclude
    that year-round races are disfavoured, as opposed to the
    intentions. I don' t think this is true, Zabel and
    Petacchi fall away from the top of the ranking because
    stage results become marginal in the new calculation.
    The new calculation is not sprinter-friendly. This
    really is a drastic change.

    -But we see those who scored in (a few) main events
    (GTs/HC+ World Cup) come to the foreground (Vino,
    Hamilton, Ullrich), as opposed to those who score in
    whatever they race . This in istelf is rather good. But
    the change is really big, with the rudimentary points
    system limited to just these PT events.

    - Apparently teams will gain points on the team ranking in
    each event. This is remarkable, and reflects who was the
    teams' negotiator (Manolo Saiz). Well his colleagues who
    appointed him shouldn't be surprised or complain now.
    Also the lesser importance of single day racing in
    general is probably influenced by his strong position.

    - The regional aspect probably triggers most discussion.
    If they want promote cycling elsewhere, why keep 2
    similar long races in Switzerland, instead of promiting
    one in Americas or Asia , as is the case in Poland ?
    Here in Belgium the 1.1 races are seen as evident
    victims of the new system (especially as we lack
    important stage races). The Flemish style racer has 3
    events left in the new system. It makes more sense to
    build a team with men for the stage races and 'climbing'
    classics, and ride through the few other races (... as
    Saiz has always done)

    - I dont wanna blame Saiz for everything, as it are the
    UCI who are the motor in this.

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