Pro-Cycling should end now!

Crescentius Vespasianus said:

With Operation Puerto and other massive sweeps of dirty pro-cyclists, it
would be safe to assume that most if not are all on performance enhancing
drugs. Pro-racing with results should end now, and let's put an end to this
farce. Maybe in it's place have exhibitions, or return cycling back to the
people by featuring honest events such as Paris-Brest-Paris. Where there
are finishers, within certain time limits, so there is no incentive to
cheat. Tyler, Botero, Sevilla, Ja-Ja, Heras, Pantani, on and on it goes the
whole stinking lot of them, all FRAUDS, I'm sick of all them.

No, you've missed the boat on this. Cycling should take its cue from US
professional sports and devote much time, energy and noise to
eradicating RECREATIONAL drug use. That way they can come off as hard on
drugs while the athletes are free to dope in performance enhancing, but
nonfun, ways to their hearts content.

Not sure what the mountain biking crowd would make of this...

Crescentius Vespasianus said:

With Operation Puerto and other massive sweeps of dirty pro-cyclists, it
would be safe to assume that most if not are all on performance enhancing
drugs. Pro-racing with results should end now, and let's put an end to this
farce. Maybe in it's place have exhibitions, or return cycling back to the
people by featuring honest events such as Paris-Brest-Paris. Where there
are finishers, within certain time limits, so there is no incentive to
cheat. Tyler, Botero, Sevilla, Ja-Ja, Heras, Pantani, on and on it goes the
whole stinking lot of them, all FRAUDS, I'm sick of all them.

Having gotten past the denial stage, you're now angry. Soon you'll be
[censored]' about WADA, the Protour, team managers, and M.D. coaches and
trying to find some sort of happy medium between prosecution and rider
rights, a bargain so to speak.

Then it gets ugly. You'll be drinking sangria and watching golf. You
may try a more youthful sport during Olympic season and watch beach
volleyball.

But then the depression ends, and all is ok again. At this stage,
you'll get a DVR and rewind race footage trying to identify the clean
guy in the peloton. After all, we still watch the Olympics.

Gabe Brovedani

Crescentius Vespasianus said:

With Operation Puerto and other massive sweeps of dirty pro-cyclists, it
would be safe to assume that most if not are all on performance enhancing
drugs. Pro-racing with results should end now, and let's put an end to this
farce. Maybe in it's place have exhibitions, or return cycling back to the
people by featuring honest events such as Paris-Brest-Paris. Where there
are finishers, within certain time limits, so there is no incentive to
cheat. Tyler, Botero, Sevilla, Ja-Ja, Heras, Pantani, on and on it goes the
whole stinking lot of them, all FRAUDS, I'm sick of all them.

Right, because nobody dopes for Paris-Brest-Paris or
FRAAM. And truckers don't take speed to drive all night
either. No fat masters dope, no recreational weightlifters
pop steroids to look good at the gym, nobody we know
charges up for their local Saturday Ride.

Have you ever considered doping before posting to RBR?
I think you should. It would be an improvement.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Crescentius Vespasianus said:

With Operation Puerto and other massive sweeps of dirty pro-cyclists, it
would be safe to assume that most if not are all on performance enhancing
drugs. Pro-racing with results should end now, and let's put an end to
this
farce. Maybe in it's place have exhibitions, or return cycling back to
the
people by featuring honest events such as Paris-Brest-Paris. Where there
are finishers, within certain time limits, so there is no incentive to
cheat. Tyler, Botero, Sevilla, Ja-Ja, Heras, Pantani, on and on it goes
the
whole stinking lot of them, all FRAUDS, I'm sick of all them.

Right, because nobody dopes for Paris-Brest-Paris

"What astonished the public above all after Paris-Brest-Paris in 1891 was
that the winner Terront had cycled for three days and three nights without
sleeping. But this was not all that extraordinary. In six-day races over in
England, still completed by individuals and not by teams of two,
participants were making ample use of medications containing caffeine and
other stimulants in order to stay awake. Terront, one of a few French riders
who regularly crossed the English Channel to participate in these six-day
races, no doubt was well aware of this, in contrast with his opponent, the
hapless Jiel-Laval, who was still an amateur. And it stands to reason that
Terront used these magic potions, which were not banned at the time. In any
case it speaks volumes that after the race ended a full day went by before
he was able to get to sleep".

Benjo

"Gabe Brovedani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Crescentius Vespasianus said:

With Operation Puerto and other massive sweeps of dirty pro-cyclists,
it
would be safe to assume that most if not are all on performance enhancing
drugs. Pro-racing with results should end now, and let's put an end to
this
farce. Maybe in it's place have exhibitions, or return cycling back to
the
people by featuring honest events such as Paris-Brest-Paris. Where there
are finishers, within certain time limits, so there is no incentive to
cheat. Tyler, Botero, Sevilla, Ja-Ja, Heras, Pantani, on and on it goes
the
whole stinking lot of them, all FRAUDS, I'm sick of all them.

Having gotten past the denial stage, you're now angry. Soon you'll be
[censored]' about WADA, the Protour, team managers, and M.D. coaches and
trying to find some sort of happy medium between prosecution and rider
rights, a bargain so to speak.

Then it gets ugly. You'll be drinking sangria and watching golf. You may
try a more youthful sport during Olympic season and watch beach
volleyball.

But then the depression ends, and all is ok again. At this stage, you'll
get a DVR and rewind race footage trying to identify the clean guy in the
peloton. After all, we still watch the Olympics.

Gabe Brovedani

[censored], I still have two stages to go.
--
Marty

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted post said:

Have you ever considered doping before posting to RBR?
I think you should. It would be an improvement.

'Ludes? Plenty of 'em would help.

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

in message <[email hidden]>, Tim Lines

(') said:

No, you've missed the boat on this. Cycling should take its cue from
US professional sports and devote much time, energy and noise to
eradicating RECREATIONAL drug use. That way they can come off as hard
on drugs while the athletes are free to dope in performance enhancing,
but nonfun, ways to their hearts content.

Not sure what the mountain biking crowd would make of this...

[censored], man, no blow? No weed? No skunk? No way! It's not cool to ride if
you're not mellow...

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
.::;===r==\
/ /___||___\____
//==\- ||- | /__\( MS Windows IS an operating environment.
//____\__||___|_// \|: C++ IS an object oriented programming language.
\__/ ~~~~~~~~~ \__/ Citroen 2cv6 IS a four door family saloon.

"benjo maso" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Crescentius Vespasianus said:

With Operation Puerto and other massive sweeps of dirty pro-cyclists, it
would be safe to assume that most if not are all on performance
enhancing
drugs. Pro-racing with results should end now, and let's put an end to
this
farce. Maybe in it's place have exhibitions, or return cycling back to
the
people by featuring honest events such as Paris-Brest-Paris. Where
there
are finishers, within certain time limits, so there is no incentive to
cheat. Tyler, Botero, Sevilla, Ja-Ja, Heras, Pantani, on and on it goes
the
whole stinking lot of them, all FRAUDS, I'm sick of all them.

Right, because nobody dopes for Paris-Brest-Paris

"What astonished the public above all after Paris-Brest-Paris in 1891 was
that the winner Terront had cycled for three days and three nights without
sleeping. But this was not all that extraordinary. In six-day races over
in England, still completed by individuals and not by teams of two,
participants were making ample use of medications containing caffeine and
other stimulants in order to stay awake. Terront, one of a few French
riders who regularly crossed the English Channel to participate in these
six-day races, no doubt was well aware of this, in contrast with his
opponent, the hapless Jiel-Laval, who was still an amateur. And it stands
to reason that Terront used these magic potions, which were not banned at
the time. In any case it speaks volumes that after the race ended a full
day went by before he was able to get to sleep".

Benjo

Les Woodland's book on doping/cheating in cycling shows that the good old
days weren't so good. But, it might not be a bad idea to suspend the entire
sport for 2007 and give all the business people something to think about.

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"benjo maso" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Crescentius Vespasianus wrote:
> With Operation Puerto and other massive sweeps of dirty pro-cyclists,
> it
> would be safe to assume that most if not are all on performance
> enhancing
> drugs. Pro-racing with results should end now, and let's put an end to
> this
> farce. Maybe in it's place have exhibitions, or return cycling back to
> the
> people by featuring honest events such as Paris-Brest-Paris. Where
> there
> are finishers, within certain time limits, so there is no incentive to
> cheat. Tyler, Botero, Sevilla, Ja-Ja, Heras, Pantani, on and on it
> goes the
> whole stinking lot of them, all FRAUDS, I'm sick of all them.

Right, because nobody dopes for Paris-Brest-Paris

"What astonished the public above all after Paris-Brest-Paris in 1891 was
that the winner Terront had cycled for three days and three nights
without sleeping. But this was not all that extraordinary. In six-day
races over in England, still completed by individuals and not by teams of
two, participants were making ample use of medications containing
caffeine and other stimulants in order to stay awake. Terront, one of a
few French riders who regularly crossed the English Channel to
participate in these six-day races, no doubt was well aware of this, in
contrast with his opponent, the hapless Jiel-Laval, who was still an
amateur. And it stands to reason that Terront used these magic potions,
which were not banned at the time. In any case it speaks volumes that
after the race ended a full day went by before he was able to get to
sleep".

Benjo

Les Woodland's book on doping/cheating in cycling shows that the good old
days weren't so good. But, it might not be a bad idea to suspend the
entire sport for 2007 and give all the business people something to think
about.

In the 19th century the producers of products which were considered to be
performance enhancing advertised in newspapers or magazines with
endorsements of famous riders. Great! Our ancestors were not so stupid (of
course, in other respects they were even more hypocrite and unrealistic than
we are now).

Benjo

benjo maso said:

In the 19th century the producers of products which were considered to be
performance enhancing advertised in newspapers or magazines with
endorsements of famous riders. Great! Our ancestors were not so stupid (of
course, in other respects they were even more hypocrite and unrealistic than
we are now).

Exactly. Seems like before Tom Simpson died, nobody really cared about
what substances cyclists were taking to get them through races. As with
so many other things, it takes a death to wake people up.

Doping is certainly going on, in every sport where it gives athletes
an edge. We shouldn't just give up on trying to enforce clean sport,
but it's really tiresome to hear people react with such outrage
every time somebody gets caught doping. Improve the tests, try to
stay one step ahead of the dopers, catch and punish them when you
can, move on.

That said, if it eventually comes out that Ivan Basso is doping, I'm
going to be sorely disappointed.

~bob

Quoted message said:

Les Woodland's book on doping/cheating in cycling shows that the good old
days weren't so good. But, it might not be a bad idea to suspend the

entire

Quoted message said:

sport for 2007 and give all the business people something to think about.

Yes, and then we wouldn't have to listen to Phil Liggett cry about how
David Millar blew it. Give it a rest for a year, close it all down. It
seems to me that the Europeans are more sick of this cheating then the
Americans.

B. Lafferty said:

Les Woodland's book on doping/cheating in cycling shows that the good old
days weren't so good. But, it might not be a bad idea to suspend the entire
sport for 2007 and give all the business people something to think about.

You seem to be real big on throwing out the baby with the bath water.
I sure hope you don't have kids. 😉

This is a much broader question than just doping in cycling. It's
simply human nature to want you and yours to have an advantage. An
advantage in life is pretty much always an advantage over someone.
That's the good and the bad part. Someone won't have access to the
latest whatever, due to lack of funds, location or political and social
barriers.

Savoldelli had problems with allergies during the Giro. If there were
a vaccine to prevent all allergies, would you want your kid (assuming
they weren't tossed with the bath water) to get the vaccine? You'd be
inhuman, and inhumane, to say no.

Preventing allergies, improving vision, endurance digestion, the immune
system, preventing disease, genetic engineering to achieve these
ends...do they all get tossed? At what point do people say, sure, this
is a good improvement and beneficial for the species, let's do it?

Maybe the car racing model would work in cycling. Unlimited Fuel Time
Trialing. Stock Human Powered Vehicles.

R

"RicodJour" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

Les Woodland's book on doping/cheating in cycling shows that the good old
days weren't so good. But, it might not be a bad idea to suspend the
entire
sport for 2007 and give all the business people something to think about.

You seem to be real big on throwing out the baby with the bath water.
I sure hope you don't have kids. 😉

I do and this has nothing to do with anything like that. These are grow
people who can't/won't abide by the rules. A year off with no pay may be
worth trying for it's ecomomic shock value. Nothing else seems to be
working.

Quoted message said:

This is a much broader question than just doping in cycling. It's
simply human nature to want you and yours to have an advantage. An
advantage in life is pretty much always an advantage over someone.
That's the good and the bad part. Someone won't have access to the
latest whatever, due to lack of funds, location or political and social
barriers.

Some have argued that we are a defective species, but I don't subscribe to
the view that human nature is to cheat. Even if it were, it's still
cheating. When Hincapie, Basso and Gutterez(sp?) are battling in the
mountains for the Tour lead, the the fishes will stick so much that even
Kunich will notice--though he'll probably still eat his fill.

Quoted message said:

Savoldelli had problems with allergies during the Giro. If there were
a vaccine to prevent all allergies, would you want your kid (assuming
they weren't tossed with the bath water) to get the vaccine? You'd be
inhuman, and inhumane, to say no.

You know, Tony Rominger had trouble with allegries for years until he got
over them.. They kept him out of the major Tours for years. Perhaps there's
something about a hematocrit approaching 60% that blocks the histamine
receptors. ;-)

Quoted message said:

Preventing allergies, improving vision, endurance digestion, the immune
system, preventing disease, genetic engineering to achieve these
ends...do they all get tossed? At what point do people say, sure, this
is a good improvement and beneficial for the species, let's do it?

That begs the entire issue here. The cyclists and their helpers are
breaking clear rules as to specific doping products and practices which they
have agreed are illegal.

Quoted message said:

Maybe the car racing model would work in cycling. Unlimited Fuel Time
Trialing. Stock Human Powered Vehicles.

It seems we pretty much have that already---200 blood bags and that's just
from one operation in Madrid.

B. Lafferty said:

Quoted message said:

This is a much broader question than just doping in cycling. It's
simply human nature to want you and yours to have an advantage. An
advantage in life is pretty much always an advantage over someone.
That's the good and the bad part. Someone won't have access to the
latest whatever, due to lack of funds, location or political and social
barriers.

Some have argued that we are a defective species, but I don't subscribe to
the view that human nature is to cheat.

<snip>

Dumbass -

You consistently ignore the fact that Western culture at large is
riddled with doping (alcohol, nicotine, antidepressants, recreational
drugs, attention deficit drugs, birth control hormones, etc. etc. etc.)
and what happens in bike racing is merely a microcosm of this cultural
wrinkle.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

B. Lafferty said:

Some have argued that we are a defective species, but I don't subscribe to
the view that human nature is to cheat.

Dumbass -

You consistently ignore the fact that Western culture at large is
riddled with doping (alcohol, nicotine, antidepressants, recreational
drugs, attention deficit drugs, birth control hormones, etc. etc. etc.)
and what happens in bike racing is merely a microcosm of this cultural
wrinkle.

And Brian wants to be the iron.

R

B. Lafferty said:

Some have argued that we are a defective species, but I don't subscribe to
the view that human nature is to cheat.

Please list one human endeavour where people aren't looking for a
competitive advantage. There's competition in the church choir and it
goes downhill from there.

Quoted message said:

Even if it were, it's still cheating.

That is true.

R

"RicodJour" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

Some have argued that we are a defective species, but I don't subscribe
to
the view that human nature is to cheat.

Please list one human endeavour where people aren't looking for a
competitive advantage. There's competition in the church choir and it
goes downhill from there.

That isn't the issue. Is human nature fundamentally good and then corrupted
by socialization? Or is it tainted from the start by bad genetics or,
perhaps, karma or original sin? Whatever side you take doesn't change the
fact that there is cheating in sport. You can try to stop it or not. That's
a choice society has to make.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Even if it were, it's still cheating.

That is true.

R

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

Quoted message said:

This is a much broader question than just doping in cycling. It's
simply human nature to want you and yours to have an advantage. An
advantage in life is pretty much always an advantage over someone.
That's the good and the bad part. Someone won't have access to the
latest whatever, due to lack of funds, location or political and social
barriers.

Some have argued that we are a defective species, but I don't subscribe
to
the view that human nature is to cheat.

<snip>

Dumbass -

You consistently ignore the fact that Western culture at large is
riddled with doping (alcohol, nicotine, antidepressants, recreational
drugs, attention deficit drugs, birth control hormones, etc. etc. etc.)
and what happens in bike racing is merely a microcosm of this cultural
wrinkle.

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

So what's your point?

B. Lafferty said:

That isn't the issue. Is human nature fundamentally good and then corrupted
by socialization? Or is it tainted from the start by bad genetics or,
perhaps, karma or original sin? Whatever side you take doesn't change the
fact that there is cheating in sport. You can try to stop it or not. That's
a choice society has to make.

Dumbass,
If we didn't evolve this capacity to cheat we would still be living in
caves riding fred flintstone bikes.